I have taken several thousand images with my D800. I have not taken any pictures of test charts - they are not my thing .

Has anyone ever seen the dreaded D800 focusing problems in real world images? Or do you need to be taking pictures of static wall charts? Some samples would sure be nice.

Are all focus modes affected? Do each of 3D, AF51/21/9, AF-C/S modes show the same problem?

I haven't done static equipment tests since I was a teenager. Nowadays I just look at the my pictures. Will I ever know if my D800 is defective?

--

Craig

You don't have to use a test chart. I can see the problem easily when shooting a brick wall, books on a bookshelf, the house across the street, etc. when using the left autofocus point.

In my case, I rarely shoot action and almost always use the center focus point and recompose. I sent in my D800 for repair for a couple of reasons. On the rare occasion that I use focus tracking, it could definitely be a proboem. Also, when I eventually sell the camera I want it to be in proper working order.

Rocky

Is it a specific "left" autofocus point? I haven't been able to find any info on this.



Mike Guilbault
Elmvale, Ontario, Canada
http://www.PhotographyWorkshops.ca
http://www.MGPhotography.com

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It is not specific to the left autofocus point, but that one does seem to be the worst, at least on my D800. Some people have reported that the right autofocus point is not working well either, and some have reported that the focus goes bad gradually as you move out from the center towards the left or right.

One salesman at my local Nikon store told me, "Some lenses are soft on the edges," and I told him sure but not as poorly as this. If a camera focuses fine with live view and poorly with autofocus then I'd say that disproves a poor lens.

The left autofocus point out of focus condition, at least on my D800, is easy to see, very obvious, and not the least bit subtle.

Rocky

Yep. Easy to see. As I read the forum here on my laptop while watching the talking heads doing the news, I pulled up:



on my laptop and shot a few pictures of my screen. Yea, I shot it hand held at 1/40 but even so, there is a very noticeable difference between the pictures shot using the center v.s. left autofocus point. I didn't use any fancy test charts or anything, just something that I could easily look at edges with.

BTW: This little chart is used to use moire to do the micro lens adjustment as detailed here:

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4708

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Evidently it is not too noticeable since after 10,000 D800's were out in the field, a month after general release was the first time it was noticed and then only with 2 wide lenses(24 1.4 and 14-24 2.8) wide open
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Yeah. It's definitely a problem, and I don't want to minimize that, but the extent that we are affected by that problem will significantly vary. I haven't tested yet to see if my D800 has a problem. It's not an early one but a last week of June/first of July one. But I haven't had any issues yet so I may not bother.

Stan, I would be a little more careful with that type of post. It might be like purchasing a brand new automobile that appears to run satisfactorily for 3 months and 3,000 miles before the defective accelerator (pedal) sticks causing a crash, destruction of the automobile, and injuries to its occupants (and others) therein. I believe it was Ford that just recalled an SUV over something similar. In any event, it happens, albeit not always immediately after purchase. Is it still a defect? You bet it is.

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Being able to make a pixel-level distinction between two selected images taken in very uncontrolled and inconsistent environments by operators with unknown skill and knowledge is not enough evidence to convince me of a widespread problem.

There is evidence of problems. But with the data available, the rate of errors could be 1 in 10, 1 in 100, 1 in 1000 or 1 in 10000. The existence of problems is expected. We need to know the severity (i.e., what is the threshold of failure?) and the failure rate.

I am sorry to say: Once a problem is talked about widely, a large number of people will declare they have a problem too. We have no idea if they have carefully followed accepted test procedures (assuming such procedures can be found). Some will declare they have a issue 'just to be safe'. And then there is the idea: "I just paid $3000, I expect perfection" (as a motorhome owner I see this behavior all the time when new owners are offended when they discover their $200K RV isn't prefect but somehow everyone else's is. I guess they think their motorhome should be 66 times better than a $3000 camera)

People on this forum ask for pictures of every new camera as 'proof' that it is 'tack sharp' (as if that is all that matters). If this problem is so BIG, then let's have some pictures please.

But no test charts and brick walls please. I never photograph either.

--

Craig

In my opinion, it is pretty noticeable. On the other hand, you will probably only notice it if you pixel peep which is what I did when I tested mine.

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>In my opinion, it is pretty noticeable. On the other hand,
>you will probably only notice it if you pixel peep which is
>what I did when I tested mine.

Pixel peeping may be necessary to see the problem. And if you can see a problem, then Nikon should address your concerns, particularly if other versions of the same camera don't exhibit the same deficiency. The problem is: you don't how other cameras perform. This forum doesn't help much since most are sharing their conclusions, not their source images and test parameters.

Another thing to note: With a complex issue like this one, shooting close range monochrome test charts may only show an issue with a camera's ability to shoot close range monochrome test charts. I tried some test charts and couldn't find any problems. I don't think this result tells me much about my camera's ability to perform in the real world. The D800 has more than a dozen focusing parameters; flat test charts are not conclusive.

I don't see anything wrong with the real 2000 images I've made with my D800 with the possible exception that film still seems to have a slight edge in terms of raw, unprocessed IQ (which few seem to keep in perspective)

--

Craig

Rocky, I would echo your experience but in my case it was the right sensor. The out of focus was easy to see, far exceeding any lens edge fuzziness problem.

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I did not keep any of the real world shots using the left focus point. Here are two of the test chart shots I took after, yes, I said after, Nikon El Segundo worked on my D800. They are currently back at Nikon (again) for "analysis" per their insructions. Of course one shot is from the left focus point and the other from the center. They are jpegs straight from the camera, cropped, and resized to 1200 pixels wide and less than 300k for posting here. I used the 24-70 f2.8 at 2.8, iso 100, shutter 1/8000, center weighted metering, tripod mounted, focus point on the center of the target.

Pretty amazing piece of work from El Segundo wouldn't you say? Fwiw, the right side point is not as sharp as the center either but I can live with it.

Chuck

D800, D3s, 14-24, 24-70, 24-120 f4, 70-200 VRI and VRIIx2, 80-400 VR, Sigma 150-500.

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

So, still no real world photos spoiled by D800 focusing issues.

Susan

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Sorry to disappoint but I do not save "spoiled" photos.

When I first discovered the problem I was shooting some warbirds at a local airfield. One batch consisted of a group of men in WWII uniforms with a Jeep in the left foreground with a B24 Liberator, "Witchcraft" in the right background. In the next batch was a B17 Flying Fortress, 9-0-9, at LF with Witchcraft in the RB. Finally, a P51B Mustang, "Lady Jane", LF with a ME262 Schwalbe RB. Out of about 40 or so shots not one was acceptable, not even close. All of the other 384 shots came out great. Of course you do not see the problem in the field. I realized I had a problem 2 days later when I started sorting through everything and working on them in CS6.

I started the repair process with Nikon and took some more shots in the back yard to send them. They agreed that I had a problem, I sent in the camera and it was gone two weeks. I trust Nikon so I asaumed it was fixed. A few days after I received it back my wife asked about it and I decided to retest the camera. I shot some flowers and the dog (His Nashesty) hand held and sure enough, the problem was still there. I contacted Nikon and they told me to resubmit more photos. That is when I decided to shoot the test target to demonstrate the degree of the problem AFTER the D800 had gone thrugh their shop.

Chuck

D800, D3s, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 VRI and VRIIx2, 80-400 VR, Sigma 150-500.

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What focus mode did you use: AF-S Auto, AF-S S, AF-C Auto, AF-C D9, AF-C D21, AF-C D51 or AF-C 3D?

Was VR on?

Did you use a tripod?

What were the exposure conditions i.e., f stop, iso and ss?

(another reason why real photos are good: we can all look at the EXIF data)

I think these are important questions since any of these attribute combinations could be causing a problem and would help explain why every user doesn't necessarily see anything wrong. If we don't capture this information, we'll never see a correlation. Don't count on Nikon asking. They may very well be investigating another hypothesis.

--

Craig

Here are real "test" photos hand held on my 24-70mm F2.8 @24mm F2.8:

Center point:



Left most center point:



Center point 100% crop:



Left most center point 100% crop:



I also tested last night on a tri-pod with the 24-70 F2.8 and my 50mm F1.4 and still did not find any difference between Live-View Focus and VF Focusing..... I think mine is fine

My serial number is a D800E - 30010XX

Chris

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)
Attachment #4, (jpg file)

>What focus mode did you use: AF-S Auto, AF-S S, AF-C Auto,
>AF-C D9, AF-C D21, AF-C D51 or AF-C 3D?

AFS-S

>Was VR on?

If you really own a 24-70 you should know that it does not have VR, neither does your 14-24 btw.


>Did you use a tripod?

Read my post, you apparently haven't bothered.

>What were the exposure conditions i.e., f stop, iso and ss?

Once again, read what I posted.

>(another reason why real photos are good: we can all look at
>the EXIF data)
>
>I think these are important questions since any of these
>attribute combinations could be causing a problem and would
>help explain why every user doesn't necessarily see anything
>wrong. If we don't capture this information, we'll never see
>a correlation. Don't count on Nikon asking. They may very well
>be investigating another hypothesis.
>
>

At this point it would be nice if a moderator stepped in and straightened this out. This guy has not been a member for two months yet and seems to have a combative attitude. I have to wonder what he would be saying if he had one of the less than perfect D800's.


Chuck

D800, D3s, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 VRI and VRIIx2, 80-400 VR, Sigma 150-500.

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I apologize. The pictures were so unconvincing I didn't read the description.

--

Craig

The spoiled photos get deleted in camera and only the sharp ones make it onto the desktop hard drive.

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

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What you have shown is: the D800 can take out of focus pictures. There is no great distinction in that. I can get any camera to focus on the wrong target.

For all I can tell, people are using AF-C Auto and they nudge the camera when focusing on the left to move the focus point to the centre.

The image above shows a hand held image taken in a car. You find this convincing?

Yes there are D800 problems. But not everyone who reports an issue necessarily has a problem with the camera. The problem lies elsewhere. Performing handheld focus tests without recording the test method provides few useful metrics.

--

Craig

It seems that these forums have divided into two camps:

1) Those who have cameras with problems

2) Those who want to discredit those who have cameras with problems

Maybe the people who don't have the problem should just be thankful and let those who do get it taken care of.

I don't understand the anger. If a customer is not satisfied with a product, she/he has the right to try to get it fixed.

Why shouldn't we support our fellow Nikonians instead of trying to rip one another new ones?

These problems will pass, and everyone will eventually be satisfied in some way, but the ill will this has created can ruin relationships. It's not worth it.

James

>It seems that these forums have divided into two camps:
>
>1) Those who have cameras with problems
>
>2) Those who want to discredit those who have cameras with
>problems
>
NO! I am in the third camp: I want those with a problem to provide details including EXIF data and test procedure so we can all look for a potential correlation between technique, content, AF features used and results. Nikon won't publicly do it but we can.

I am disappointed that so many people fall back on their heals and think a request for accurate is information is offensive.

--

Craig

Craig,
Point taken. What you say makes sense.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

James

Agreed, James.

Rocky

>It seems that these forums have divided into two camps:
>
>1) Those who have cameras with problems
>
>2) Those who want to discredit those who have cameras with
>problems
>
I think your division is wrong. It depends on the point of discussion:

If were are discussing: Are there problems with the D800:
Camp 1- Yes, at least some have various issues
Camp 2- No the camera is perfect.

I think most of us (including me) fall into Camp 1.

Other points of discussion revolve around whether Nikon is correctly dealing with the problems, actually is fixing the cameras, has competent service facilities, etc. There are two or more Camps on any of those points.

When discussing this stuff, it is important to keep in mind what point is being discussed. Perhaps that would keep some people from feeling belittled or discredited. Also realize, that not everyone will agree with you and that they will not support you if they think you are wrong. If you disagree, make some rational counter-points and provide whatever evidence that you have available.

What is totally intolerable in this venue are personal attacks and name calling that are barely worthy of an 8 year old.

Those of you that have problem cameras, we all hope you get it resolved. It is in all of our best interests(and I bet Nikon knows that, too.)


Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
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Mick,
I agree with you completely.

I will certainly make sure to stay away from name calling and personal attacks.

James

Like I said the photos I posted were "test" as in some quick test shots to compare later on my computer screen. Also I said I did do some tripod shots later with a flat object on a wall, camera squared up to said object and using the same exposure between LV and VF shots, AF-S mode, racked the focus to infinity before each shot and set camera on a delayed shudder. Like I said, I tested with a test setup and still did not come up with any AF issues with my D800E. The examples I gave show that.... even if they were hand held shots, they show the camera focused were it needed to.

If you are truly unhappy with the D800 you have, return it and wait to get another one or maybe a D600 if it comes out soon..... To be honest, I find my D800E AF to be much better then my D7000 produces and the D7000 has been to Nikon twice now and the second time nothing could be found wrong with it.... Which after testing my 50mm f1.4 on the D800E, it needs -15 AF Fine tune and on the D7000 needs -20. So looks like the lens needs adjusted not the camera but that's a different matter.

You said you wanted real pictures. So I put up real pictures without any test charts or focus charts shot hand held as how many use the camera and deminstraited that my D800E does not seem to have the issue. Now if you feel yours does post up some real picture with crops showing what a LS AF issue looks like..... Show some examples with the 14-24mm f2.8 which is said to be one of the lenses that show the issue the best to help others see what you are looking for... Not try to put someone down that you don't even know....

Chris

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So, Chuck has a camera requiring maintenance, bench test, no one's denied there are some (few) bodies with the issue however, the majority of users seem to do fine.

Nikon is down the road about 25 minutes, and my complaint as with the D3S, machine oil spots on the sensor, but that also, comes with the territory, under the heading of maintenance.

NO one likes "new" and maintenance but the consideration is not a defect, defect is something which requires replacement and the image focus issue clearly does not rise to the level as a defect.

Sorry, as noted elsewhere, if one does not want the camera, do not buy it, if one has the camera and is dissatisfied, then get a refund, if one assumes as a mechanical item it may require maintenance, that also would be a choice.

Assume some of you means me, perhaps? Perhaps not?

Cheer leading is fine, "Go Chuck!" but insulting the professionals and other users on these forums is not really proactive, just 'sayin.

So in answer to your stipulated nuance, no, I am not blind and no I do not believe, that is something reserved for those who don't understand, religions are a fine example generally but I digress.

Try to understand the majority of D800's are fine, if you can, otherwise believe what you wish.

HTH's

RM

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That's great that the majority are fine. I believe that. But you need to believe that there are folks out there whose cameras are not fine--that there may have been a batch or batches that were not prepared correctly for shipment.

I don't know why that bothers you so much.

All Nikon needs to do is make it right for these customers. Simple.

So I will repeat. We should let those whose cameras are malfunctioning have their problem rectified without intimating they are crazy or stupid or delusional.

Live and let live.

Let's say that maybe 5 to 10 percent of the cameras now out there have this problem. (this is hypothetical--it may be lower or higher) That would mean, as you say, the great majority are fine. Do you think 5 to 10 percent of the production run being out of whack is acceptable? I certainly do not.

By the way, I never insulted anyone.
All I have tried to do is support my fellow Nikonians when they can use the support.

I'm finished here. See you around the forums.

James

It was very obvious in my images- just soft & fuzzy!


Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

I agree that it's obvious in the photos that aren't in focus. I didn't print any prior to getting the camera fixed, but it was quite obvious on the computer. Given that the D800 has crop-ability as a big selling point given the high MP count, it's not really acceptable to have mis-focused images even if it's not noticeable until you zoom in.

Fortunately, the issue is fixable.

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

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James, sent a PM, the post I responded to has been expunged #14, your assumption is not correct, and was not in reply to anything you have stated, sorry.

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Rob--
Replied to your message. I certainly don't mean to disparage anyone--all the posting and replying gets a little confusing.

Time for me to let it rest and let those affected get their equipment problems resolved.

James

My D800 arrived on Monday, the 23rd, and it's flawless (except for spitting oil from the shutter onto the sensor, which it'll continue to do for roughly the next thousand to fifteen hundred shots). Here's a shot from the Cripple Creek Area goldfields I made on Thursday.

I suspect the focus point problem has been vastly over-stated. We have way too many people around who spend their time testing equipment rather than shooting pictures with it, and way too many testers who don't know what they're doing. But I have a lot of faith in Thom Hogan's analysis of the situation, and Thom makes it clear that there's a problem -- evidently a serious one. Will Nikon fix the problem? Of course they will. The D800 is my fourth Nikon pro-level camera, and Nikon always has stepped up and corrected any problems in its cameras. They'll do it again this time.

Russ Lewis
www.FineArtSnaps.com

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

>I suspect the focus point problem has been vastly over-stated.
>We have way too many people around who spend their time
>testing equipment rather than shooting pictures with it, and
>way too many testers who don't know what they're doing...

X2 Well put.

I wish the people who spend so my time shooting test charts and brick walls would take a little time and share their test data and procedure. Their conclusions are less useful on so many levels.

--

Craig

First and for most my heart goes out to those with Nikon D800 /e cameras that have the LF problem. I wish Nikon was dealing with that issue better. I got my D800 on 16 July which was ordered from Adorama on 15 Feb. I know how frustrating it was for me to wait so long for my D800. I can only imagine how annoyed, disappointed - angry I would be if it had the kinds of problems I have read about.

For any one interested there is a concurrent Nikonian thread related this one with "real Photos" here…
Subject: "D800, 14-24/2.8 and Focal Testing"
http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=430&topic_id=14057&mode=full

Also - Thom Hogan has a very good article on this subject with a user survey.
http://bythom.com/D800autofocus.htm

Well Wishes

Ken

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My D800 (ser 3016xxx) purchased in late June was evaluated soon after in re-world and controlled test conditions. The real world conditions was a porch of a home wherein I started on the left focus point and worked across to the the right. The focus was poor using the left point, very good center, and marginal for the right point. I also performed the controlled test using the technique by Thom http://bythom.com/D800autofocus.htm and it was his test target against (of course!) a brick wall surrounding my home. The results were consistent: The focus using the left point is poor, center point acceptable, and right side point marginal - not as bad as the left but not as good as the center point and unacceptable in any event.

This latter test was performed using a tripod mounted D800, at 28mm at f/2.8, outside in midafternoon Arizona sunlight, ISO 100, 1/1250 sec. with exposure delay so there was no blaming any kind of camera motion blur.

I repeated this using LiveView and saw that indeed as reported, with LV, the problem does not exist. This demonstrates it is not an alignment problem but with an error in the algorithm that apparently cannot be fix via a firmware fix, or they would have distributed that already. (Mine was updated to the latest A/B/L firmware.) I printed the results and included it in with the return to Nikon El Segundo as I saw no point in calling first for them to confirm what I already knew. Let us not quibble over the importance or not of this in field or controlled test conditions (it is important in both) or if it is over-stated or not (it has not been) as the fundamental point is this should not exist in *any* camera made today and it *will* make a difference in *any* photo that uses the focus points in error. If an engineered device cannot give acceptable results under controlled conditions, it cannot give acceptable results under real-world conditions. Thom Hogan's assessment is pretty much spot on, as is this one: http://hifivoice.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/d800-autofocus-after-repair/

For those of you how have received cameras without this problem, that is as it should be. For the rest of us, annoyed we are yet patient as Nikon repairs it. I just kick myself when I realized after the fact the Rider for Camera equipment on my Homeowners Insurance would pay for loss or damage yet I paid the $2 per $100 to UPS to ship it to El Segundo......

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I am sorry to hear of your problems with the D800.

It truly pains me to hear of people having problems with this wonderful camera.

I hope and pray that Nikon will have a happier resolve for all of you / us (We are Nikonians).

From what I read on Thom Hogan's page that those of us that received our D800 /e cameras after 04 July should be pretty safe from the problems plaguing some of those D800 /e cameras issued prior.

Well Wishes

Ken

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I might have a problem with mine which I found while shooting a family portrait this past weekend. However, it was shot with the 70-200VR and I realized that I may have had the VR turned ON while on the tripod... my bad. I'll have to do some more testing over the next few days to determine if it's real or not.

However, I keep hearing of the LEFT focus point being the culprit and the RIGHT focus point a little off and usually the centre if fine. MY D800e has 51 focus points not THREE! Why is everyone saying the left focus point?? WHICH ONE!!??


Mike Guilbault
Elmvale, Ontario, Canada
http://www.PhotographyWorkshops.ca
http://www.MGPhotography.com

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All of them - it is just less-bad the more you move to the center. Ditto for the right side.

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Thank you very much for the detailed description of your test!

It sounds like your issues extends to bad focus in every direction.

Did you try performing an AF Fine Tune on one of the regions (Setup > AF fine-tune)?

If you did this step, did the focus errors in the adjacent focus regions move proportionally in the same direction with AF Fine Tune adjustments? For example, did a +10 correction in the centre bring left and right regions roughly to the same point?

--

Craig

Mike

The problem focus point for most cameras is the far left center. Highlight the center sensor and then scroll all the way to the far left sensor.

I have not fully tested my D800E, but I do have a problem with the far left sensor. It's quite obvious. I took 30+ frames using LensAlign for a quick test. The center and far right sensor were on the money. I tested at 35mm, 50mm and 70mm. 100% of the test images with the far left sensor were noticeably soft - okay for a web post but not for critical work.

It's pretty easy to work around the problem. There are 50 other AF sensors that are just fine (well - I have only critically tested about 15-20 sensors in the middle area and other tests have been casual). I've opened a ticket for service, but don't plan to send my camera in for a while.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
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Another good test description. Thank you!

I have never of anyone isolating the problem to a single AF-51 element. That is a very important finding if others can do the same.

Would you be able to answer:

1) What happens when switching to AF-21 or AF-9 and you select the leftmost element? Is the problem still there?

2 )What happens when you try AF-C with AF-51 and you get the camera to use the left most element with one or two others? Is the problem still there?

--

Craig

One more important question comes to mind since you can isolate the problem so well:

3) (in AF-51) Does selecting the left-most element with AF-S and then finessing AF-C to use the same single element, show the problem?


FWIW: With all these questions I'm looking for a correlation between camera features and problems. We could eventually find that all D800's have issues if used in a particular way. Or (expected but not proven) we could find that some D800's have issues when used in any manner. So far, it has been hard to collect anywhere near enough data.

--

Craig

Mr. Unavailable: It is not to dwell on which point is bad and which focus mode is worst and can we fix it via some focus fine tuning. It is that there is a fundamental issue with the ability to focus if these at or near periphery points are used that is unprecedented in cameras of this generation and not within the expected performance. I did not read in the marketing materials that this camera would "Auto-focus using 9/11/51/infinite points except for the ones at the edge of the field will be inaccurate". Rather than fussing over work-arounds there is a simple fix if you received yours with this problem. Let Nikon isolate the problem since they know what it is and how to fix it; that is their job not mine. I choose to spend my time in other ways, like planning the photo adventures to take once I receive it.

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Dude: It's about solving a problem by sharing data from as many sources as we can get.

It's not for everyone.

--

Craig

Thanks Eric.... I'm hoping to have some time tomorrow to do some testing. I really hope that my problem was having the VR turned on while on tripod. If it is, then man, its really noticeable on the D800 - moreso than the D700. If it's a focus issue, I'll be running my camera down to Nikon (Toronto) asap for a fix. Luckily, I'm on NPS so I'm hoping won't take too long. Now that I have it - I want to use it for everything!


Mike Guilbault
Elmvale, Ontario, Canada
http://www.PhotographyWorkshops.ca
http://www.MGPhotography.com

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Eric, are you saying that the next to furthest left PF is not showing the same problem as the farthest left FP. That is a small physical distance so if so, that rules out optical alignment of hardware and puts in the realm of specific far left FP data in the lookup table recorded o n the final assembly test bench.
If that is the case, it suggests that some of the techs are doing a conventional AF adjustment resulting in some previously good points being skewed off by the "repair". Since some techs obviously have the process down and are fixing cameras with this problem, it is likely that some are just no up to speed or are trying to treat it like a general AF alignment problem. It appears to be more and more a matter of luck of the draw as to whether a camera sent back gets improved or not by which which tech got into it.
If on the other hand, I was misreading your intended comment and moving from center to far left gradually decreases focus accuracy with each step to the left, it might be optical alignment instead of lookup table data. Or a combination of the two which would put a tech's understanding of the systems at the center of the issue where a combination of techniques would be needed in a case by case process.
A good tech with good diagnostic skills is hard to find in any field from medicine to mechanics and all in between. Being a good diagnostician is not something that can be taught in tech school or university.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Stan - I have not tested all the sensors and definitely not the ones next to the far left focus point. I'll get to that in the next few days. According to EXIF, I was at 34mm for the test. I had some earlier tests at 56mm that were similar but had a lower level of testing rigor.

The center focus point and adjoining sensors are very good.

Eric Bowles
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Read three posts from different people today that all have received their camera repairs back in worse condition/unrepaired. What to do???

The bottom of this link has Bob's update on his camera that was returned worse than before he sent it in!



http://mansurovs.com/d800-caviar-sardines-orspam



Author: Bob Vishneski
Comment:
Stefan & Dencelly,

I am not a happy camper. My unit came back without being fixed. Will publish an article soon regarding the specifics. Here's a summary:

June 26th - Received D800

June 27-July 3rd - Put unit through a battery of tests per Nasim's and others' suggestions and realized I also had the left side autofocus issue

July 6th - Dropped D800 off at UPS

July 9th - Received at Melville Service Center

July 12th - In SHOP

July 25th - Returned

July 25th - Tested and analyzed results using same lenses and test procedures as before.  Not Repaired Successfully - Left side focus corrected. Center? TERRIBLY out of focus. Required +15 to +20 to get center in focus on most lenses. This threw the left side out of focus.

July 26th - Sent unit back to B&H on last day of 30 day return window. Hoping to receive new unit that works correctly.  

If I get another lemon, it is going back immediately and I will sit this out until Nikon proactively addresses the situation. We are only allotted so many hours on this earth, and I would rather not have "Here Lies Bob - Master Of Siemens Star Photos" inscribed on my tombstone...

Bob


Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com

Eric,

Your explanation is exactly how I thought the problem was occuring. Far left center FP. I tested my D800 2 months ago and I didn't see any problems with far left or far right using a Nikkor 10-24DX and Nikkor 28-300(since I heard that it was an issue on WA only). But to your comment about the results being ok when displayed on the web...I have to admit that I only used my PC to display my test images, I didn't print them and/or print big.

Since I use the center FP virtually 100% of the time, never print bigger than 11x14 (at least not yet) and mostly display my photos on the web, I have been very happy with my 800. Maybe I do have the AF problem but not as I use the camera. For others that use the camera and display their results differently, it may be that it is a huge problem for them.

I have to admit that I too would like to see actual examples of a real images that are the result of the AF problem. Not a test chart. I can't imagine that someone out there does not have a pic of a flower or landscape where they used the left AF point and the result is unsatisfactory. When I have unsatisfactory pics, where I suspect there is a camera defect, I intentionally save them in a test folder and use those examples to show others and to test back against. Is there a place on our forum where these actual images are displayed?? Seems from the comments I have read that folks don't save them...only the test chart shots. It does not seem logical to me that if there are so many folks with real AF problems we can't have a database (album) for other to see what to look for.

I think as others have said, the AF issues could exist in every D800 but if we do not use the camera in a way that results in poor image quality then we do not HAVE a problem and for our use we have a great camera.

Dan

"My most rewarding photos are those that capture something I didn't 'see' in the frame....so just SHOOT."

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Russ,

You suspect the problem is vastly overstated but then you agree with Thom that it's a serious problem. You can't have it both ways.

Trust me, it's a real problem that has impacted enough buyers to be a big one. Fortunately it's fixable. It's inconsiderate to tell people with imperfect new $3000 cameras that they're exaggerating the issue. They're not. Find one with the problem and it's blatant. Fortunately you got a good copy and you don't have to live through getting it repaired.

>>I suspect the focus point problem has been vastly over-stated. We have way too many people around who spend their time testing equipment rather than shooting pictures with it, and way too many testers who don't know what they're doing. But I have a lot of faith in Thom Hogan's analysis of the situation, and Thom makes it clear that there's a problem -- evidently a serious one. Will Nikon fix the problem? Of course they will. The D800 is my fourth Nikon pro-level camera, and Nikon always has stepped up and corrected any problems in its cameras. They'll do it again this time.<<

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Alex, you may see that as having it both ways, but Thom's testing doesn't tell me that the problem's not vastly overstated. First, Thom told us that some fraction of a small group of people he contacted had a problem. Then, on July 26th he told us that in a random check of at least 25 percent of more than 100 bodies by dealers with whom he's in contact, none had the problem.

It strikes me that most of the problems are reported by people whose main reason for owning a D800 is to test it, not to make pictures with it. I think Dan just summed up the situation. If you're shooting pictures instead of testing you may find that the camera is just fine. Yes, I paid three grand for my D800, five grand for my D3, and five grand for my D2x, but I bought those cameras in order to make pictures, not to test them. If one of them had shown a problem in my pictures it'd have been on the way back post-haste. I'm with Dan. I use AF-ON exclusively, and keep the camera on AF-C. I'm not quite sure why anybody needs to move the focus point away from center. Focusing always used to be one operation; exposing the picture another. As far as I'm concerned, it still is.

I'm sorry to hear that some people are having a problem, but I still think the problem's vastly overstated.

Russ Lewis
www.FineArtSnaps.com

There are times where off-center focus points can be important. For example, I just photographed an F1 race and the cars passed through the frame quickly. To get correct composition, I needed off-center focus points and used them for tracking. Focus and recomposing is impossible in that situation.

If you find a camera with the issue, it's readily apparent in 'real world' shooting. I found that mine had the issue by taking some photos and noticing they looked soft with the left-most point. My image quality tipped me off on the problem.

You're opinion is nothing more than that. An opinion. And frankly, I don't know what information you've based it upon. To say the only people that notice it are those who bought the camera just to test it is purely assumption. Also, which came first...the chicken or the egg? Do you really think people bought a $3000 camera just to test it and find its flaws? Or perhaps they bought a $3000 camera to enjoy it, some found a problem, and the rest of the buyers became savy to the issue and then discovered it in their own cameras (were stimulated to 'test' for the problem).

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I don't know why people look down on those who try to test the limits of their equipment to understand it better, but that's OK - each to their own.

<< EDITED >>

A bit less tired in the morning I went back and checked my setup, and think my real world example was a bit too real. I removed this post (which had D800 and D4 images showing the problem). I think I may have moved closer than the closest focusing distance of the 85 in the leftmost shot on the D800.

I tried this again on a tripod so I could maintain the same distance and I did not see a left focus issue in this scenario, in fact at 1:1 on both the D4 and D800 the left was slightly MORE sharp, so I remain simply confused. I'm not sure it was too-close, but since I cannot reproduce it, I do not want to show it.

But my apologies for the false positive. However, I maintain that such methodical testing is the only way to get to the truth -- which as the old TV show says -- is "out there".

PS. I'll add as I did in a couple other topics, that the D800 and 85 have been problematic for me -- perfect one moment, impossible to get good shots the next. There's more to the story than just the 1.4, but not sure what.

PPS. I have repeated this several times now, and have been unable to see a focus issue on the left in this setup. I remain unable to explain how it differs from a focus chart test where it is very evident. More to the point, I remain unable to figure out why most portraits are out of focus with this lens on my D800, and virtually every one is perfect with a 70-200 or 24-70 (and yes, I understand the difference in F2.8 and F1.4, but there's more to this story, I just haven't seen it yet).


Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

Lolzzzzzzzz - people are just buying a defective Camera to test it-Hysterical statement!!! I thought for a Moment that I had opened the Funny/Comic pages when I read it!




Art is the only way to run away without leaving home.



www.TinkersRealm.com