I'm off on a 6 week trip next month to Yellowstone, Glacier National Park, Banff and Jasper. For me it will be a trip of a lifetime(?). You never know if you will get the chance to go back.

Anyway, I have always shied away from HDR for a number of reasons. However, knowing I'm about to embark of a landscape photographer's orgasmic, extravaganza, (appropriate description?), I'm sure I will come across situations where the in camera HDR option might be helpful.

I studied Thom's description and have started to experiment. Pretty easy to set up. My guess is ideal process in the field would be to take single shots w/out HDR as a baseline and then dial in HDR. Might be cumbersome to do this every time the light changes, but if it adds to/saves/enhances the image knowing you might never get the chance to re shoot it, I probably need to become proficient in it's capabilities.

Sooooooo, for all you HDR experts out there, what do you think of the two image HDR capability in the D800? Does it excel for highlights, shadows, both? What should someone with absolutely zero HDR experience look for? My guess is that it compresses the histogram so is that a place to start on the non HDR image?

Or should I just ignore the D800's capability and consider Post Processing HDR?

As I use it and experiment with it, your advice will be greatly appreciated.

Mark Sloane
Danville, CA

Well, if it's going to be the trip of a lifetime, I assume you would want to shoot raw files to give yourself the most flexibility in post processing. If this is the case, you can't use the in-camera HDR feature as it only works with jpgs.

I took a similar trip last October and bracketed everything. I planed to do a lot of HDR but still, I'd rather shoot a few extra frames to be SURE I have what I want. In my case, I shot over 12k in 8 days . Enjoy your trip to my neck of the woods .

D800 and a bunch of glass that cost way more than my wife thinks it did.

Correct about the raw...I always shoot raw but in certain situations, changing raw to TIFF (jpeg & Tiff work with D800 HDR), is not such a hardship if I get a significant gain.

Looking at your website, would I be wrong to assume you use HDR alot? And if so, outside the raw to TIFF issue, how does the D800 compare to your normal HDR process?

Mark Sloane
Danville, CA

Thanks for checking my site. Yes, I use HDR for pretty much any photo where the subject isn't moving (I'm even experimenting with HDR portraits with studio lighting). I've tried lots of apps but always seem to come back to Photomatix.

While TIFF might work with in camera HDR, the files are so big and you still loose the flexibility you get with raw. I was playing around with in camera HDR last night and while it does work, I think I'd still prefer to do it myself so I can "flavor to taste".

D800 and a bunch of glass that cost way more than my wife thinks it did.

Given the "once in a lifetime" nature of your trip, i would also recommend shooting raw.

and in the case of HDR, i would shoot bracketed shots, as many as needed to get the full range. even if that is 1EV with 9 shots.

keep the files for processing later (once your trip is over) you can not go wrong there..

in that case, i would also recommend a "back up" devices.. maybe a WD 1TB Passport

Visit My Website Nikon Fanboy.

>I'm off on a 6 week trip next month to Yellowstone, Glacier
>National Park, Banff and Jasper. For me it will be a trip of
>a lifetime(?). You never know if you will get the chance to
>go back.
>
>Anyway, I have always shied away from HDR for a number of
>reasons. However, knowing I'm about to embark of a landscape
>photographer's orgasmic, extravaganza, (appropriate
>description?), I'm sure I will come across situations where
>the in camera HDR option might be helpful.
>
>I studied Thom's description and have started to experiment.
>Pretty easy to set up. My guess is ideal process in the
>field would be to take single shots w/out HDR as a baseline
>and then dial in HDR. Might be cumbersome to do this every
>time the light changes, but if it adds to/saves/enhances the
>image knowing you might never get the chance to re shoot it, I
>probably need to become proficient in it's capabilities.
>
>Sooooooo, for all you HDR experts out there, what do you think
>of the two image HDR capability in the D800? Does it excel
>for highlights, shadows, both? What should someone with
>absolutely zero HDR experience look for? My guess is that it
>compresses the histogram so is that a place to start on the
>non HDR image?
>
>Or should I just ignore the D800's capability and consider
>Post Processing HDR?
>
>As I use it and experiment with it, your advice will be
>greatly appreciated.
>
>Mark Sloane
>Danville, CA

For me HDR is a new frontier that can lead to an enormous amount of fun and creativity. Yet there is a vast learning curve. The sooner one immerses themselves in whatever software chosen, then the better the HDR results.

As a suggestion, try looking at the tutorials with NIK software HDR Efex Pro 2... incredibly interesting and valuable. They are free and quite informative. NIK HDR Efex Pro 2 (just released) can tweak multiple photos so they look realistic, surrealistic or artistic. Your call.

Personally, I try to blend three shots into an HDR and always use a remote-shutter release in live view with my D800E. Under a loop with three photos the definition, dynamic range and resolution are spectacular.

After using the new NIK HDR Pro Efex 2, I no longer use Photomatix because IMO NIK products and HDR integrate so well and are more robust. Bottom line, my results are better. Fortunately, I purchased the entire NIK suite last year and continue to get their upgrades. It has proven to improve everything I photograph. (I can use all the help I can get). Good luck. All the best.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Bokeh, are you using Efex2 with Lightroom, full Photoshop, or as a standalone? I have just purchased it and am trying to figure out how best to use it.

Larry Miller, Annapolis, MD
D700/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

>Bokeh, are you using Efex2 with Lightroom, full Photoshop, or
>as a standalone? I have just purchased it and am trying to
>figure out how best to use it.

No, not a standalone.

I have Aperture and the entire NIK software suite that I bought from B & H. Amazon and NIK all sell it. To use any NIK product with Aperture, I simply right click on the picture after I opened it with Aperture. It says, "Edit with Plugin." From there, the menu of all NIK products a shown (next to the picture I have chosen) and I select the one I want and click on it. It opens it up and puts your photo into the software you selected. You are ready to edit with the NIK software product you have chosen.

There are seven products in their suite. HDR Efex Pro 2 is one of them. The others that are amazing are Color Efex Pro 4 and Viveza 2. NIK is fair in terms of pricing on their upgrades (some are for free) that come along frequently.

For me, the tutorials on their website are soooooooo...... helpful. I try to look a them in order to learn what the masters are doing (with all their programs). Whenever I was unsure of anything, then I gave them a call. Their service was friendly and outstanding. Good luck. All the best.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Thanks.

Larry Miller, Annapolis, MD
D700/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

I think HDR is fast becoming a cliche way of shooting. There are specific times or scenarios where it can be a great tool to portray or capture a moment. But this sense that every photo should be 'shot in HDR' is missing the point. I see people post rather generic photos and snapshots using HDR or HDR effects on every image they take thinking it makes it a better photo. It doesn't. Shooting an HDR image of a coyote is not going to add much to the image unless you're looking for a very specific feel to the picture.

I'd suggest shooting RAW and only shooting additional bracketed shots when you truly think the scenery or subject will benefit from the increased dynamic range. Frankly, there are many times where blacks or blown highlights add more than saving those details.


-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>I think HDR is fast becoming a cliche way of shooting. There
>are specific times or scenarios where it can be a great tool
>to portray or capture a moment. But this sense that every
>photo should be 'shot in HDR' is missing the point. I see
>people post rather generic photos and snapshots using HDR or
>HDR effects on every image they take thinking it makes it a
>better photo. It doesn't. Shooting an HDR image of a coyote
>is not going to add much to the image unless you're looking
>for a very specific feel to the picture.
>
>I'd suggest shooting RAW and only shooting additional
>bracketed shots when you truly think the scenery or subject
>will benefit from the increased dynamic range. Frankly, there
>are many times where blacks or blown highlights add more than
>saving those details.
>
>
>-Alex Rosen

I strongly agree with this comment. HDR should be used only when a benefit will be derived and IMO RAW is the format of choice. All the best. Good luck.
>www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

Visit
>my
>Nikonians gallery>.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

When shooting landscapes, I always shoot brackets for HDR post processing using CS6. Just set the camera for five frames in each set and shoot away. The dynamic range of the D800 is so high you will seldom need more than five frames at 1EV increment per frame. If you decide to not do HDR in post, just delete the extra exposures.

When in AZ in may with Nikonians, I only used over five frames twice.
You can see some of my post results at:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/Nature/Western-USA/23275129_bVXtvd#!i=1877863398&k=tMDcgQB

Larry Jordan

D800E, 14-24, 50, 24-70, 70-180 Micro, 70-200, 80-400mm AF-S

Website:
http://larryjordan.smugmug.com/

Hi Mark,
I think the D800 does wonderfully for HDR in all respects and I am very pleased with what I have been able to accomplish (even though I am not yet a D800 "expert"). I envy you going to Yellowstone - to me it is the best Nat Pk in the country and very frequently when observing the landscape I guarantee that you will think you are on a different planet. I am actually very anxious to return there, but there are other complications that I need to deal with.

For recommendations, I strongly suggest that you do all your HDR captures on tripod and gain as much stability as possible with mirror lock-up, etc. If you go search out my thread on best wide angle for the D800 (sorry, I don't yet know how to embed thread links), you will see what I believe is an artifact of trying to handhold.

Have a great trip,

Tom
D5000IR, V1, Oly OM-D E-M5
Nikkor Zooms: AF-S 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 VR, VR, AF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6
Nikkor primes: 24 f/2.8Ai-S, 28 f/2.8D, Micro 60 f/2.8, 85 f/1.4D, Nikkor-C 500 f/8 Refl.
Nikon 1 lenses: 10mm f/2.8, 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 VR, 30-110mm f/3.8-5.6.
Voigtlander 58mm f/1.4, Sigma 70-300 Macro f/3.5-5.6.
Oly 12-42mm f/3.5-5.6, 12-50mm f/3.5-6.3, 12mm f/2.0, 45mm f/1.8, 75mm f/1.8.
Lumix 20mm f/1.7, 14-140mm f/4.0-5.8, 100-300mm f/4.0-5.6
Gitzo GT3541L, Manfrotto MT293A4, MP 680B
Markins M-20, RRS BH-25 Pro

Tom,

Thanks for the advice. I was pleasantly surprised by the HDR capabilities in the D800 but then again, I know very little about HDR.

99.99% of all my shutter releases are Mup on a tripod with a remote MC-30, (unless I'm chasing my granddaughters around).

Thanks again......Mark


Mark Sloane
Danville, CA

I like using LV on the D800. I use it a lot for macro and it would also be useful for landscapes. One of the advantages of using LV is if you release the shutter in LV mode on the D800, you are shooting MUP. But LV stays on until you turn it off and uses up the battery faster so you should turn it off between shots. Not a big deal, just something to keep in mind.

John

Thanks for the input guys.

No one has stepped up and recommended the easy solution; using the capabilities of the D800, so it appears I will just have to start shooting bracketed images and experimenting with the HDR capabilities within CS5.

I really don't want to go get software and embrace HDR as an consistent step in my PP workflow. I was just looking at evaluating the merits of a tool I already had.

Mark Sloane
Danville, CA

Mark, If you read the D800 manual you know you can't do two-frame HDR on the D800 in raw, so, if as you say, you prefer raw, forget about on-camera HDR.

I've been doing HDR since Photomatix first came out. If I were you I'd take Wes's advice and simply shoot about 5 bracketed shots (tripod, default ISO, aperture priority, at least one stop apart, which is easy on the D800). Once you have those you can do anything you want with them. If the middle shot in the series has enough latitude, you don't need HDR. If not, you can play with Photomatix or Nik's HDR Efex Pro (which often gives me better results than Photomatix) or even Photoshop CS6's built-in HDR processing capability.

As Alex pointed out, HDR is becoming a cliche. When it's done right it looks like a normal, properly exposed photograph. When it's done the cliche way it looks horrible and the photographer who made the shot looks like a juvenile with a new toy. So be careful.

Here's an example of what I'll call proper HDR:

This is Thomas Edison's Florida lab. It's an HDR from 9 exposures, hand-held on a D3. It just looks like a normal photograph.

Frankly, I think two-frame HDR in the D800 is a joke. Nikon should have put that on a point-and-shoot.

Russ Lewis
www.FineArtSnaps.com

I'll be the first then to suggest you just shoot without bracketing every time you have a subject worth clicking. If you take a shot and see that the dynamic range exceeds the D800's abilities, that's a situation I'd consider reshooting the scene with bracketing for later HDR processing.

I've found that many times I shoot bracketed exposures for HDR, I just end up with 5-10x as many photos in my Aperture library that I never work with, look at, or appreciate.

Personally, I spend the extra effort getting the right composition and timing for an image. HDR is just for those times that I want to portray the subject differently or can't capture necessary highlight or shadow detail in a single image.

-Alex Rosen
www.flickr.com/photos/klrbee25/

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Couldn't agree more! Thanks

Mark Sloane
Danville, CA

oops Mark,
I did not see that reference to the D800 2-image internal HDR process. I have not used that but I think I will need to try it out. I always use the process included with PS CS5, and it works pretty well. I also have some other dedicated HDR software, but I too prefer simplicity, and when I acquired the PS that had that function, I basically abandoned the Photomatix software.

And speaking of grand daughters...

I'm not particularly proud of the image (several problems with it), but am extremely proud of my grand daughter Marleigh and her horse Roxy.

Tom
D5000IR, V1, Oly OM-D E-M5
Nikkor Zooms: AF-S 18-105 f/3.5-5.6 VR, VR, AF-S 18-135 f/3.5-5.6
Nikkor primes: 24 f/2.8Ai-S, 28 f/2.8D, Micro 60 f/2.8, 85 f/1.4D, Nikkor-C 500 f/8 Refl.
Nikon 1 lenses: 10mm f/2.8, 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 VR, 30-110mm f/3.8-5.6.
Voigtlander 58mm f/1.4, Sigma 70-300 Macro f/3.5-5.6.
Oly 12-42mm f/3.5-5.6, 12-50mm f/3.5-6.3, 12mm f/2.0, 45mm f/1.8, 75mm f/1.8.
Lumix 20mm f/1.7, 14-140mm f/4.0-5.8, 100-300mm f/4.0-5.6
Gitzo GT3541L, Manfrotto MT293A4, MP 680B
Markins M-20, RRS BH-25 Pro

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Tom,

And proud you should be! She is beautiful, obviously talented and she is that very special person; a granddaughter!

I can't explain it; I can't understand it; I just know there is nothing more precious or wonderful than a granddaughter.

Thanks for sharing the picture......here's two back at you, (taken on a D800 so the moderator won't move us to the grandpa forum!) The image where she is holding a pint is a print of her mother that she took with a point and shoot. She does look longingly at my D800 so perhaps she is a future Nikonian!

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

Mr. Bluefin:

I went on the Banff to Jasper trip last year. HDR will be your least concern. You should think about what and where at early morning and golden hour. You may have to quickly switch between wide angle and tele pretty fast as you may be taking a photo of a mountain and a bear wanders onto the road in front of you. You will be very close to mountain goats and bighorn sheep. Elk are great with the teles. Just think about the composition, etc. By the way, we rented one of those GPS-driven tour guides in Calgary. As you drive, it tells you stories and where to do the side-trips. Enjoy.

Thanks.....Can't wait!

Mark Sloane
Danville, CA

I've been doing a lot of HDR with my D800, both using the in-camera feature and more traditional HDR. Indeed, when I'm out on a particular shoot, I'll take a few hand-held in-camera HDR shots, some with the D800 on a tripod, and then a couple sets of exposures bracketed maybe seven stops for later merging in software. Trying all the options has helped me understand the pros and cons of each.

Of course HDR photography really dates back to film days and before the current craze. As with many techniques, it's gone from being an essential tool for certain kinds of subjects, to something of a fad, then on to cliche, and, finally, to become a new branch of expression in its own right. As such, HDR is not much different from the high-contrast or super-grain photography of the 1960s, the sprocket hole edges of the 1970s, cross-processed effects of the 1990s, or the silky long-exposure waterfalls of the 2000s to the present.

None of these are cliches anymore as much as they are a type of photography that is poorly done by some, but still practiced well by those seeking to push the boundaries of the "cliche" into new territory. We've all seen enough of the vertically-composed, super-wide angle scenic shots at sunset/sunrise, with dramatic clouds at top, mountains in the middle of the composition, and limpid lakes lapping at the photographer's feet in the foreground to last a life-time.

But, fortunately, there are shooters that are going way beyond that. By the time we've gotten sick of HDR portraiture, everyone else will have moved on to Instagrams, anyway.

"I make terrible mistakes, so you don't have to!"