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Subject: "SDXC?" Previous topic | Next topic
dankeny Gold Member Nikonian since 29th May 2006Mon 18-Oct-10 05:17 PM
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"SDXC?"


Roland, US
          

Sandisk has 64GB SDXC cards 15ms write for $210/ea (2 for $420) or 2 32GB 30ms cards for $389. Question is, speed or capacity?

Going out to shoot something worth posting.

David

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
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PI_is_314
19th Oct 2010
1
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dankeny Gold Member
19th Oct 2010
2
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jon_b
19th Oct 2010
3
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km6xz Moderator
19th Oct 2010
4
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dankeny Gold Member
19th Oct 2010
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km6xz Moderator
19th Oct 2010
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dankeny Gold Member
19th Oct 2010
7
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jmiguez Silver Member
20th Oct 2010
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JPJ Silver Member
27th Dec 2010
10
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DVDMike Silver Member
28th Dec 2010
12
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BillboTex
30th Dec 2010
16
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DVDMike Silver Member
31st Dec 2010
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KnightPhoto Gold Member
31st Dec 2010
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Old Listener
20th Oct 2010
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JerryT
28th Dec 2010
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km6xz Moderator
28th Dec 2010
13
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DVDMike Silver Member
28th Dec 2010
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RRRoger Silver Member
28th Dec 2010
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PI_is_314 Registered since 04th Sep 2007Tue 19-Oct-10 01:50 AM
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#1. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 0


Oshkosh, US
          

My vote is for speed. You can always buy more cards to increase capacity... but how do you buy more speed other than replacing the cards (versus adding to your inventory)?

Plus, 32GB's a pretty hefty sized card. It's not like you're going to fill that up often on one shoot.

My $0.02.

Mark

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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dankeny Gold Member Nikonian since 29th May 2006Tue 19-Oct-10 02:59 AM
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#2. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 1


Roland, US
          

Well said. Thx.

David

  

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jon_b Registered since 14th Jul 2008Tue 19-Oct-10 07:59 AM
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#3. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 2


GB
          

Your camera is only going to work so fast, buying faster cards will not make it go quicker than that so will be a waste of money. I can’t tell you what that speed is for your camera but it has been discussed for other cameras.

Those are mighty large cards, if/when they #### out they’ll take a lot of data with them. Do you really need them that big?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 19-Oct-10 12:10 PM
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#4. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 3


St Petersburg, RU
          

Is there a reason you wish to risk so much data on single cards?
When a card fails, they all do eventually, by defect or by nature, it is a big gamble as to whether it happens at the beginning or end of a project. How many images of a project are you comfortable in losing in a card failure; 5%, 20% 70% 100%?
I've lost a great deal of money and effort in media failure before, once at the direct out of pocket expenses of almost $100,000 so you won't find me relying on 64gig cards.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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dankeny Gold Member Nikonian since 29th May 2006Tue 19-Oct-10 12:44 PM
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#5. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 4


Roland, US
          

Stan,

Good point, except that D7000 can (will in my case) be set to use the second card as backup. I don't know the probability of two cards failing at once, but I know it's acceptably small. I consider this one of D7000's best features.

The D7000 will definitely leverage the 30ms write time. Faster cards, maybe not.

David

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 19-Oct-10 07:30 PM
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#6. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 5


St Petersburg, RU
          

Yes, but you need a matched pair because the slowest one does not determine the buffer clearing rate. Buying a few high capacity fast cards will cost a lot more than a pocket full of smaller Class 6 cards which Nikon specifies.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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dankeny Gold Member Nikonian since 29th May 2006Tue 19-Oct-10 08:16 PM
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#7. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 6


Roland, US
          


Clearly, your images are worth more than mine. If I lose a card full of images, I'm out the images emotional value to me--a loss, true. I guess I would be more careful if I had thousands riding on my photographs. The only thousands in photography for me are the ones I spend on the gear. Thanks for you good advice.

David

  

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jmiguez Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Oct 2010Wed 20-Oct-10 12:31 AM
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#8. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 7


Lafayette, US
          

Reading this thread has gotten me thinking. On a two card camera, such as the D7000, while shooting in a RAID style with one card backing up the other, does it take twice as long for the camera to write to the cards? Does it have to write twice or does one card copy over to the other?

John

My Pictures may be seen here: http://jmiguez.smugmug.com/

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Mon 27-Dec-10 04:17 PM
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#10. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 8


Toronto, CA
          

>Reading this thread has gotten me thinking. On a two card
>camera, such as the D7000, while shooting in a RAID style with
>one card backing up the other, does it take twice as long for
>the camera to write to the cards? Does it have to write twice
>or does one card copy over to the other?
>

I read in several recent reviews that this does not slow down the buffer emptying process (or conversely turning this setting off does not speed it up). I tested it last night and sure enough, it empties at the same rate whether in back-up mode or not.

Jason

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DVDMike Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Mar 2003Tue 28-Dec-10 01:58 AM
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#12. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 5


Metro Atlanta, US
          

Exactly. Using the second card slot as a backup means that you don't have worry about the putting your eggs in one basket scenario. Shooting professionally, I've been doing this with the D3 for some time now. I only wish that I could have afforded larger cards when I purchased my sets as I still have to swap out cards at some events.

For what I do, I also feel that the risk is MUCH greater of loosing a physical card when swapping out a card during an event than having a card failure that eliminates all/most images. You can easily drop a card when you are in the field. It is MUCH safer for me never to swap out a card when I am in the middle of a fast paced shoot. And then there is the possibility of exchanging a card out for one that you have already used during the shoot and formatting it. When you use a lot of small cards to avoid loosing all of your images on one big card, the chances of making some disastrous mistake during a shoot are again MUCH greater than loosing all images on a large card. (This happened to a photographer that I shot for in one wedding. Human error and he lost all of his 1GB worth of family portrait that cannot be redone ever.)

So when you add a second backup card that can whole more photos than you can take before you can get them dumped and backed up, just makes all the sense in the world to me. Eliminate the human error and and mitigate the hardware errors by using big cards and using the in-camera backup.

And then you add the law of averages. If every card has a certain fail rate, the more cards that you use, the more often you will have a single card fail. The only thing that you are maybe gaining by using smaller cards is that when a card does fail, you might not loose as many images as you would have with a larger card. But you will have more failures. So there is the trade off. More smaller cards just hold no advantages for what I do.

  

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BillboTex Registered since 23rd Nov 2010Thu 30-Dec-10 04:35 PM
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#16. "RE: SDXC configurations"
In response to Reply # 12


Houston, US
          

Mike are you aware, or any other posters here on this thread.......

I have not received my D7000 body yet, but really enjoying sitting here staring at my Tamron 18-270mm (we are both waiting together for the body!...hahaha)

My question is, can the SD card slots be set up on the D7k to use a 32GIG SDHC class 10 in slot #1, and a 64GIG SDXC class 10 in slot #2, with slot #2 collecting a backup from slot #1 AND also collecting ALL video files?

Thanks in advance

.
.
.

MY SETUP
Nikon D7000 with zoomNIKKOR AF-S DX 10-24mm f3.5,
Tamron AF 18-270mm Macro f3.5 Di II VC LD
and Tamron AF 180mm f/3.5 Di SP A/M FEC LD (IF) 1:1 Macro
Nikon R1 Wireless Close-Up Speedlight System,
ZacutoEVF Pro
Two SanDisk 32GB EXTREME PRO SDHC-UHS-1 (45MB/S)
viewNX2 captureNX2 NIKCompleteCollection Ultimate
Photo Mechanic 4.6.6 Annotate Pro
Vegas Movio Studio 10 Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 14

  

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DVDMike Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Mar 2003Fri 31-Dec-10 12:03 AM
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#17. "RE: SDXC configurations"
In response to Reply # 16


Metro Atlanta, US
          

Billbo, I do not know if this will work as I do not have my D7000 yet either. But I do suspect that your setup will, but I am not 100% sure about video going to slot #2 or not.

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Fri 31-Dec-10 07:02 AM
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#18. "RE: SDXC configurations"
In response to Reply # 16


Alberta, CA
          

Yes I believe it will work, since there are two SEPARATE entries in the menus. One is called "Role of Card in Slot 2" and the other is embedded within 'Movie Options'.

I have my card two setup as overflow and video. But your suggested configuration with the larger card in slot 2 makes a great deal of sense!

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

  

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Old Listener Registered since 09th Sep 2010Wed 20-Oct-10 03:52 AM
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#9. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

>Is there a reason you wish to risk so much data on single
>cards?
>When a card fails, they all do eventually, by defect or by
>nature, it is a big gamble as to whether it happens at the
>beginning or end of a project. How many images of a project
>are you comfortable in losing in a card failure; 5%, 20% 70%
>100%?
>I've lost a great deal of money and effort in media failure
>before, once at the direct out of pocket expenses of almost
>$100,000 so you won't find me relying on 64gig cards.
>Stan

In about 10 years, I haven't lost any pictures from cards going bad but I've lost cards and the pictures on them. Three cards per camera body is about all I want to keep track of. I've used 4,8 and 16 GB cards in recent years and will probably move to 32 GB cards when I buy more cards.

For me, cards become too small to be useful before they go bad.

When I'm on an extended trip now, I now copy the contents of my cards to a laptop every night or two.

Bill

  

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JerryT Registered since 31st May 2010Tue 28-Dec-10 12:18 AM
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#11. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

>Sandisk has 64GB SDXC cards 15ms write for $210/ea (2 for
>$420) or 2 32GB 30ms cards for $389. Question is, speed or
>capacity?

The last thing I'm interested in is a card with such capacity. There are media cards (and hard drives) which fall into two categories: Those that have failed and those that will fail.

I rely on 4 GB size cards as the capacity is still quite high but I don't have to put all my eggs in one basket. At only 30 bucks for the Sandisk Extreme in 4 GB I can see you going wrong with that size.

Jerry

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 28-Dec-10 07:13 AM
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#13. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 11


St Petersburg, RU
          

Yes, people fall into 2 camps with media size preference, those who have been lucky and have lost none yet, and those who have lost an impossible to duplicate session. Those two camps have adopt opposing opinions.
In other fields, it is industry standard practice to risk as little as possible on any one potential failure point. That is one of the definition of distinctions between amateurs and pros.
In my case the hard lesson I learned was in the form or a music recording project that literally required $100,000 in out of pocket expenses to correct.
I now shoot in events which could tolerate riskier procedures, I could use larger cards, but larger ones are less reliable. So I stick with 4gig cards and I have one 8 gig and use them for up to 1000 images a weekend. New Years I'll probably shoot 2,000 before the sun comes up.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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DVDMike Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Mar 2003Tue 28-Dec-10 12:08 PM
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#14. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 13


Metro Atlanta, US
          

people fall into 2 camps with media size preference, those who have been lucky and have lost none yet, and those who have lost an impossible to duplicate session. Those two camps have adopt opposing opinions.
In other fields, it is industry standard practice to risk as little as possible on any one potential failure point. That is one of the definition of distinctions between amateurs and pros.


First off, let me explain that I am a professional. I shoot mostly weddings. If I loose wedding images, then I am in serious trouble as they (for all practicable purposes) cannot be replaced.

Let me get this strait to make sure that I understand what you are saying here. For your computer projects, you use a lot of smaller drives than one big drive and a backup, thinking that spreading your data over 250 4GB hard drives is more reliable than one 2 TB drive and a backup? You really think that you are less likely to have a failure when you are using more (in this case 250!) drives than one, plus a backup? Disk drives have a failure rate. The more drives that you have in your system, the sooner that you will experience a failure in one of them. In this case, the odds of having a hard drive failure over a given time period are 250 times greater when using the smaller drives over the larger single drive! Assuming a given failure rate over time for flash memory, the same goes for flash memory. More cards equals more likely to have a failure.

In my prior life, I was responsible for maintaining a data center where we kep track of over 10 billion dollars of constantly updating personal financial data. We NEVER made a decision to use more (smaller) disk drives over larger ones to store the data. In fact, as larger drives became available, we replaced multiple smaller ones for the larger drives. But we also had these drives configured in RAID configurations. (This is analogous to the backup on the D7000). And we also performed tape backup of everything daily. We were constantly audited by outside entities and we never had an exception that said we should have been using more smaller drives to be more secure/reliable.

The D7000 already has a safety net. It is called the second card slot. This is exactly what home users can do with their computer too, use a RAID-1. If you back up your data, one way or the other, you mitigate the risk of loosing your data. The biggest risk with loosing your D7000 images if you use big cards is getting your camera stolen with cards in tow.

I know that you have lost data from hard drives. But are you one of the ones that have lost all of the data on a solid state card? I hear about the "Two camps", but I do not think that I have ever heard of anyone who has lost all images on a single card that had been known to work previously. Has this actually happened to anyone? I have lost images on cards before. But just a handful of them. But I have also been able to recover virtually all images from cards that have gone bad. But this is why I shoot with a camera that has two slots and why I use the second slot for backup.

I have already explained why using multiple small cards contains more risk for human error than one large card. But I will use your analogy. There are those who lucky enough to have never lost, dropped, stepped on, or formatted and reused a card in the field yet and there are those who have do so. Those that have always use a large card and the the backup slot and do not change cards during a shoot when they are preoccupied with other tasks.

I could use larger cards, but larger ones are less reliable

Please explain. What evidence do you have that large flash memory cards are less reliable than smaller ones. I have never read anything from the manufacturers where they state this. Where are you getting this information from? Perhaps, I am going under the false assumption that the error rate is the same for cards by a given manufacturer and other specifications except capacity.

My points in this thread are:

1) using multiple smaller cards to replace 1 larger card increases the possibility of a failure.

2) even if #1 is inaccurate, using a backup virtually eliminates any advantage of using multiple cards.

3) the more cards you use in a shoot, the more likely you are to loose of physically damage a card when exchanging them. For me, this risk is far greater than the risk of catastrophic card failure.

  

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RRRoger Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his long history of demonstrated excellence and helping other members with equipment, technique and DSLR video in the true Nikonians spirit. Charter MemberTue 28-Dec-10 02:07 PM
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#15. "RE: SDXC?"
In response to Reply # 14


Monterey Bay, US
          

I have been shooting Events since 1999.
We take thousands of pictures.
I always buy the fastest and biggest cards I can afford.
They are often the second fastest and second largest.
Over the years I have had about 4 cards fail, they were all 4gb.
I have had none of the larger compact flash or SD cards fail.
One Lexar went completely. The rest had data messed up.
Using software, most of the pictures were recovered.

I am currently using a Patriot 32gb class 10 card for stills
and a SanDisk 32gb class 10 (30mbs) card for video in my D7000.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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