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Subject: "Lens Characteristics" Previous topic | Next topic
Voltan Registered since 27th Feb 2011Sun 06-Mar-11 10:02 AM
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"Lens Characteristics"


MY
          

Why are images taken using a not too old Nikon AF Nikkor 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5D with my D7000 quite soft and hazy, nowhere as clear and as sharp when using DX lenses? Ken Rockwell’s experience using this lens with his DX Nikon had been excellent.

Further why are images through the new Nikon 55-300mm lens, at 105mm are some 10% larger when compared to the 18-105mm kit set at similar 105mm (or other duplicated settings)?

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
billD80 Silver Member
06th Mar 2011
1
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
PAStime Silver Member
06th Mar 2011
2
     Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
Voltan
06th Mar 2011
4
          Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
gkaiseril Gold Member
07th Mar 2011
14
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
dankeny Gold Member
06th Mar 2011
3
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
06th Mar 2011
5
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
wwt67 Silver Member
06th Mar 2011
6
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
elec164 Silver Member
06th Mar 2011
7
     Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
Voltan
06th Mar 2011
8
          Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
PAStime Silver Member
06th Mar 2011
9
               Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
Voltan
07th Mar 2011
10
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
Len Shepherd Gold Member
07th Mar 2011
11
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
Voltan
07th Mar 2011
12
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
08th Mar 2011
15
Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
07th Mar 2011
13
     Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
iweiner
11th Mar 2011
16
          Reply message RE: Lens Characteristics
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
11th Mar 2011
17

billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sun 06-Mar-11 11:16 AM
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#1. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

>Why are images taken using a not too old Nikon AF Nikkor
>28-105mm f/3.5-4.5D with my D7000 quite soft and hazy, nowhere
>as clear and as sharp when using DX lenses? Ken Rockwell’s
>experience using this lens with his DX Nikon had been
>excellent.

Here's what Rockwell says:

"The D7000 is Nikon's most advanced camera at any price... The D7000 is Nikon's best DSLR ever."

"The D7000 has more linear resolution than any Nikon DSLR, including the D3X. The D7000 will make immediately apparent any limitations in your lenses and in your photo technique. If you can't get sharp pictures with a D7000, it's your fault, not the camera's."

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Sun 06-Mar-11 12:46 PM
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#2. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 1
Sun 06-Mar-11 01:01 PM by PAStime

Kingston, CA
          

I have a Nikkor 28-105mm and like it. Images are sharp on my DSLR.

I doubt your hazy pictures have anything to do with your D7000.

In addition, the following phrase only adds confusion and is misunderstood IMHO by many who assert it "The D7000 will make immediately apparent any limitations in your lenses".

Has that same 28-105mm been shown to look better on another camera?

Can you post a sample image? That will help.

Thanks,
Peter

  

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Voltan Registered since 27th Feb 2011Sun 06-Mar-11 01:56 PM
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#4. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 2
Tue 08-Mar-11 05:57 PM by briantilley

MY
          

Hi Peter,

The D7000 is in perfect working condition and for me a fantastic camera.

It has to do with the lenses. How do I post the images for the 3 lenses in this forum? Thanks.

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Mon 07-Mar-11 08:24 PM
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#14. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 4


Chicago, US
          

> It has to do with the lenses. How do I post the images for the 3 lenses in this forum?

You need a paid membership at the Silver or better level to post an image to the forums. You can include a link to your images on a different site no matter your membership status.

I would include shots both hand held and using a good stable tripod and a remote release for comparisons. You do not need any special image targets.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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dankeny Gold Member Nikonian since 29th May 2006Sun 06-Mar-11 01:39 PM
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#3. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 0


Roland, US
          

To your second question: Zoom lenses focus by changing focal length. Shoot the pair at infinity focus and you will get the same image at a given focal length.

To your first question: I have some difficulty with swapping between D700 and D7000. The AF sensors behave differently. Not that one is better, but they are different. When I have been shooting with the D700 and switch to D7000, I sometime miss the focus. I think this has to do with the fact that I know what targets will lock the D700 and with the D7000, sometimes the sensor sees something else. Just a theory.

Suggestion: Shoot the 28-105 well stopped down (f11 - f16) and see if the images are acceptable. If they look good stopped down, then you are missing focus (focusing on something other than your intended target). I shot the 28-105 for years. It was always more than sharp enough on D100/200/300. I gave it to my nephew before I got the D700 of D7000.

David

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Sun 06-Mar-11 02:11 PM
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#5. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 0


New HArtford, US
          

I would also consider checking if this lens needs fine tuning. Download a focus chart and print and shoot at 45 degree angle. You will be able to tell immediately. I needed to fine tune a couple lenses, one older lens needed -18 but is now supersharp.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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wwt67 Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2010Sun 06-Mar-11 02:27 PM
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#6. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 0


Warsaw, US
          

You really need to post an example so we see what your seeing.
When you post a message there is a link below says "Click here to add attachments". Your photo must be no more than 1200x1200 pixels and 300KB. Click browse to select the file and click upload file. After it uploads close the small window and then click post message.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Sun 06-Mar-11 02:48 PM
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#7. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

>When you post a message there is a link below says "Click
>here to add attachments". Your photo must be no more than
>1200x1200 pixels and 300KB.

Only Silver, Gold or Platinum members can attach images via this method.

Basic members can upload images to the gallery or post a link to an external site to provide sample images (obeying the same guidelines for size as attaching).

Pete

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Voltan Registered since 27th Feb 2011Sun 06-Mar-11 04:48 PM
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#8. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 7


MY
          

Managed to upload 3 images of a maroon cushion in the "Abstract Photography" of the Gallaries.

Images are:

- DX AF-S Nikkor 55-300mm f4.5-5.6G ED (70mm 1/30 f5.6 ISO 6400).

- DX AF-S Nikkor 18-105mm f3.5-5.6G ED (70mm 1/30 f5.6 ISO Hi 0.3).

- AF Nikkor 28-105mm f3.5-4.5D (70mm 1/30 f5.6 ISO Hi 0.3).

Thank you.

  

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Sun 06-Mar-11 06:14 PM
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#9. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 8


Kingston, CA
          

Hi. Thanks for posting the samples. I made a quick comparison and have some thoughts:

- for sharpness tests I'd recommend shooting at a shutter speed of faster than 1/30s. I'll assume you used a tripod but even with a tripod, shooting at something like 1/500s simply removes camera shake from the possibilities of image to image differences.

- similarly, shooting at the camera's highest ISO setting is OK but not ideal as noise and reduced tonal and color rendition typical of all cameras at their high ISO settings can mislead a diagnosis

- given the above, and not sure if you used a tripod, I have chosen to ignore sharpness

- I agree the 28-105 shot is a bit more milky than the other two shots. It seems the 18-105 is the least in this regard. I do detect what looks like white balance differences in between the shots. If it were me I'd try again but with auto WB off.

- I find my 28-105 more prone to overall contrast reductions due to flare as compared with my more modern lenses with more recent optical coatings. Was there by chance light streaming into the lens at an angle? Were you using the 28-105 hood?

Cheers,
Peter

  

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Voltan Registered since 27th Feb 2011Mon 07-Mar-11 06:16 AM
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#10. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 9


MY
          

Hi Peter,

Those photos were taken using a solid heavy duty tripod and the shutter released using the Nikon ML-L3 wireless remote. I did not use any flash for fear of adding another variable.

Unfortunately due to low light condition, the shutter speed had to be rather slow and ISO was high. Otherwise I have to resort to a flash or two.

OK, the WB was at auto, but can be retaken with it being set to Off.

  

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Len Shepherd Gold Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2003Mon 07-Mar-11 09:21 AM
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#11. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 0


Yorkshire, GB
          

Keeping it simple 1 stop down from wide open any Nikon lens in good condition is capable of producing a good quality 20 inch wide print with a D7000.
There can be relatively small differences between lenses on critical side by side comparison. As you are getting poor results with just one lens the lens may need a service or repair.
The suggestion of downloading a 45 degree test chart is double unfortunate - and bad advice.
Dealing with how AF works first when the camera detects the highest contrast (sharpest image) good AF is achieved - and you cannot get a sharper picture than sharp - so in this sense fine tune cannot help. As the lens is screwdriver AF there is no internal focus motor to go wrong - so AF cannot get it wrong with good AF targets
It is possible for a camera body to be out of calibration but when it is there is wrong focus in the same direction with all lenses. As your other lenses work good your camera body can be eliminated.
Here is the scathing comment Canon make as regards 45 degree targets
Chuck Westfall “I recommend using a flat, detailed target parallel to the focal plane. After reading through the PDF linked from your message, it appears that the author has missed a major point, i.e., any individual focusing point in a digital SLR is much longer than the simple line he is using on his chart. The nature of the AF sensors used by EOS digital SLR’s as well as those from other manufacturers is that they perform most reliably when the entire length of the focusing area sees readable detail. This condition is not satisfied by a thin line on a piece of paper. It's OK to include an angled chart in a test photo. In fact, Canon Factory Service Centers always do this. But the test target is always separate from the angled chart, and parallel to the camera's focal plane”.
Nikon has said in every camera instruction book for more than a decade objects at different distances in the AF detection area (45 degree targets have this) can result in wrong focus."
As your problem involves a screwdriver AF lens and your body is good fine tune cannot make things any better.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

  

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Voltan Registered since 27th Feb 2011Mon 07-Mar-11 12:47 PM
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#12. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 11


MY
          

Len,

Thank you for your comments.

Through the process of elimination, I am quite certain that my D7000 body is fine. Thus leaving the offending 28-105mm lens a suspect. Being oldest lens, it had seen some demanding service outdoor and in rain and shine. It had been exposed to some exciting jungle drives in wet & muddy conditions.

So I am going to have it serviced and get all the optical elements thoroughly cleaned.

Hope it is worth the exercise and it can match the other 2 lenses.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Tue 08-Mar-11 02:16 AM
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#15. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 12


New HArtford, US
          

I made a post regarding my experience.
http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=329&topic_id=6672&mesg_id=6672&page=

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Mon 07-Mar-11 04:11 PM
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#13. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 11


New HArtford, US
          


>The suggestion of downloading a 45 degree test chart is double
>unfortunate - and bad advice.

IMHO it worked for me.
Len has tons more experience and many more years of photography under his belt than I do and I respect his opinion.
Brian Welsh also generally disagrees with my advice. He has helped me with many issues and again I strongly consider and respect his opinion.

>Dealing with how AF works first when the camera detects
>the highest contrast (sharpest image) good AF is achieved -
>and you cannot get a sharper picture than sharp - so in this
>sense fine tune cannot help. As the lens is screwdriver AF
>there is no internal focus motor to go wrong - so AF cannot
>get it wrong with good AF targets


>It is possible for a camera body to be out of calibration but
>when it is there is wrong focus in the same direction with all
>lenses. As your other lenses work good your camera body can be
>eliminated.


I find this statement very interesting and cannot understand how my AF 35-70 2.8 lens got sharp after careful AF fine tuning of -18, while other lenses did not need this.


>Here is the scathing comment Canon make as regards 45 degree
>targets


>Chuck Westfall “I recommend using a flat, detailed target
>parallel to the focal plane. After reading through the PDF
>linked from your message, it appears that the author has
>missed a major point, i.e., any individual focusing point in a
>digital SLR is much longer than the simple line he is using on
>his chart. The nature of the AF sensors used by EOS digital
>SLR’s as well as those from other manufacturers is that they
>perform most reliably when the entire length of the focusing
>area sees readable detail. This condition is not satisfied by
>a thin line on a piece of paper. It's OK to include an angled
>chart in a test photo. In fact, Canon Factory Service Centers
>always do this. But the test target is always separate from
>the angled chart, and parallel to the camera's focal plane”.
>Nikon has said in every camera instruction book for more than
>a decade objects at different distances in the AF detection
>area (45 degree targets have this) can result in wrong
>focus."

Due to reading many issues with focus points and testing I used 3 different focusing charts one of which has a bird in the center to focus on.
>As your problem involves a screwdriver AF lens and your body
>is good fine tune cannot make things any better.


Anyway just trying to help. Maybe I'll turn off all AF fine tuning and take more pictures of my books in the library and compare again.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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iweiner Registered since 12th Sep 2002Fri 11-Mar-11 03:56 AM
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#16. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 13


US
          

Gents, take a look at this site and its test protocol. I like it, it operates globally on the optical system. Look at the test target with your bifocals, moving in and out. Best distance is interesting when compared to where we chose to hold our book or newspaper!

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html

irv weiner

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Fri 11-Mar-11 03:25 PM
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#17. "RE: Lens Characteristics"
In response to Reply # 16


New HArtford, US
          

>Gents, take a look at this site and its test protocol. I like
>it, it operates globally on the optical system. Look at the
>test target with your bifocals, moving in and out. Best
>distance is interesting when compared to where we chose to
>hold our book or newspaper!
>
>http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html
>
>irv weiner

I have used this but have found it more difficult in detecting fine differences in focus than 45 degree angled focus charts.
This is just my opinion and I am aware that many do not find angled focus tests valid, as evidenced by my above post.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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