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Subject: "Flash issue please help" Previous topic | Next topic
JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Sat 12-Feb-11 01:47 AM
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"Flash issue please help"


New HArtford, US
          

I have a vivitar DF-383 external flash.
In preparation for a kids birthday party tomorrow I wanted to get more comfortable with it.
I was experimenting with flash lock and different sync modes. In the process somehow I experimented with load and save settings.

My flash no longer preflashes and seems to underexpose. I think the on-board flash also is underexposing. My flash reads TTL-BL.
I used the flash yesterday and it did preflash and gave me proper and nearly overexposure. The flash still seems to work on my D5000.
I compared pictures from D5000 to 7000 w same focal length, iso, shutter speed, f stop and distance to subject. There is a significant underexposure.
I try to reset everything the 2 green i buttons and the shooting menu reset.
Did the load save settings do anything? Can it be undone? Do I need to send camera to Nikon? Could the external flash have harmed camera and yet still function and still properly expose on D5000?
Does non Nikon external flash void warrant?




File Info 1
File: DSC_2108.NEF
Date Created: 2/11/2011 9:28:40 PM
Date Modified: 2/11/2011 9:26:08 PM
File Size: 17.2 MB
Image Size: L (4928 x 3264)
File Info 2
Date Shot: 2/11/2011 21:26:08.00
Time Zone and Date: UTC-5, DST:ON
Image Quality: Lossless Compressed RAW (14-bit)

Camera Info
Device: Nikon D7000
Lens: 35-70mm F/2.8D
Focal Length: 48mm
Focus Mode: AF-S
AF-Area Mode: Single
VR:
AF Fine Tune: ON(-18)
Exposure
Aperture: F/9
Shutter Speed: 1/200s
Exposure Mode: Manual
Exposure Comp.: 0EV
Exposure Tuning:
Metering: Matrix
ISO Sensitivity: ISO 100
Flash
Device: Built-in Flash
Flash Sync Mode: Front Curtain
Flash Mode: i-TTL-BL, 0EV
Image Settings
White Balance: Auto1, 0, 0
Color Space: sRGB
High ISO NR: OFF
Long Exposure NR: OFF
Active D-Lighting: OFF
Image Authentication:
Vignette Control:
Auto Distortion Control: OFF
Picture Control
Picture Control: STANDARD
Base: STANDARD
Quick Adjust: 0
Sharpening: 3
Contrast: 0
Brightness: 0
Saturation: 0
Hue: 0



JohnE Nikon
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"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
aolander Silver Member
12th Feb 2011
1
Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
12th Feb 2011
2
     Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
aolander Silver Member
12th Feb 2011
3
     Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
13th Feb 2011
5
          Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
briantilley Moderator
13th Feb 2011
6
               Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
14th Feb 2011
7
                    Reply message MYSTERY SOLVED :RE: Flash issue please help
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
15th Feb 2011
8
                    Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
MEMcD Moderator
15th Feb 2011
9
                         Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
JohnE Nikon Silver Member
15th Feb 2011
10
     Reply message RE: Flash issue please help
MEMcD Moderator
13th Feb 2011
4

aolander Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Sep 2006Sat 12-Feb-11 01:23 PM
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#1. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat 12-Feb-11 01:33 PM by aolander

Nevis, US
          

Indoors, where the flash is the main light source, you should be using TTL not TTL-BL.

An unrelated question; do you really need -18 AF Fine Tune for this lens?

Alan

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Sat 12-Feb-11 02:31 PM
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#2. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 1


New HArtford, US
          


Alan thanks for your response.

>Indoors, where the flash is the main light source, you should
>be using TTL not TTL-BL.

I wondered about this. When I was getting preflash 2 days ago it was brighter and there was more of a need for fill flash.

Is there a setting to changes this in camera?
I am hoping that my load save settings blunder changed something. I accidentally loaded my wildlife U1 settings into the main camera but I thought I changed it back.

The image I presented was with pop camera flash. My external flash has a mode button which lets camera control it or puts it in manual. There is no specific setting to control TTL or TTL-BL.

Also for more info when I shoot with F stop below 5.6 and especially if iso is set at 200 the exposures are more correct.

Shouldn't I be able to manual expose at f-stop 10, iso 100 and shutter speed 200, especially with an external flash?
>

>An unrelated question; do you really need -18 AF Fine Tune for
>this lens?

I bought this lens used 3 days ago as I don't have a portrait zoom lens. I wanted the shallower depth of field of 2.8. After taking some portraits I thought images were soft and put it through a focus test and and found significant back focusing. Depending on focal length and distant to subject the AF fine tune needed to be -16 to -19. I thought -18 was a reasonable compromise.

Only 2 out of 5 of my other lenses "needed" fine tunining, but fine tuning was < 5 for these lenses so I don't think there is a serious focusing issue with the camera.

I have 2 weeks to return lens if I am not happy. I am in the process of making up my mind. I paid about $300 and the comparable new lens is well > $1000. Preliminarily I think I will keep lens and let camera correct focus. I'll see how today's shoot goes but now I will also have to be dealing with manual flash settings which I have no experience with. BTW the flash underexposure issue is not lens dependent as I tested this lens on D5000 and tested flash on D7000 with multiple other lenses.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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aolander Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Sep 2006Sat 12-Feb-11 03:40 PM
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#3. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 2


Nevis, US
          

I'm not familiar with the Vivitar flash, but it may have limited "communication" abilities with Nikon cameras. I believe that the pop-up flash (and the SB-400) operates in TTL-BL except when using spot metering, then it will use TTL. Perhaps the Vivitar works this way, too. If you are getting better exposures at larger f/stops, the distance may be too great for the power of the flash. At f/10, you may have to be fairly close to your subject, or bump up the ISO.

To get the most out of Nikon's flash system, I would recommend a Nikon flash. The SB-600 isn't too expensive.

Alan

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Sun 13-Feb-11 07:11 PM
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#5. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 3
Sun 13-Feb-11 07:27 PM by JohnE Nikon

New HArtford, US
          

I just finished reviewing 215 images I shot with my external flash at a birthday party yesterday.
My conclusions are:

1 I am inexperienced with flash photography and may have started this post prematurely.

2 > 85% of exposures were decently exposed using matrix metering and TTL-BL.

3 Using spot metering does convert TTL-BL to TTL. Thank you. Unfortunately I did not experiment with this and FV to determine If I would get better results. I will try.

4 I believe most of my confusion was with using relatively high F stops with an iso of 100 a full stop less than I ever used with the D5000 where I had a little more experience w my external flash.

5 With the D5000 indoors I would often use auto iso w/o flash and when I wanted flash I would often switch to the full green auto setting which opened up my aperture and upped my iso.

6 The communication w the ext flash gives indications of working. The iso, fstop, focal length and TTL or TTL-BL does show on flash.

7 Marty, I did not realize that distance info was recorded on flash. I just finished looking at it and sometimes it appeared that I only had 10' so I may have been out of range.

8 Also my flash is limited w re. to focal length. I also used my 10-24 mm zoom for some of the shots yesterday and a couple of these were underexposed although most were good. I think 24mm is the lower limits for my flash.

9 The upper f-stop is 11 on my flash so I assume if I put my f-stop to 22 the flash would not increase output anymore than at f-11.




The one thing that lingers in the back of my mind is; I believe I used to notice a preflash which I thought was used to determine flash intensity. I no longer see this.

Does anyone get a preflash? I never use red eye reduction so this is not the pre flash I used to notice.

Thanks again for your help.

BTW my new bargain priced 35-70 2.8 w AF -18 worked very well. I will keep the lens.





JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 13-Feb-11 10:00 PM
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#6. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 5


Paignton, GB
          

>I believe I used to notice a preflash...

I don't think it's feasible to distinguish visually the pre-flash as a separate pulse - the time lapse between it and the actual flash is very short.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Mon 14-Feb-11 01:03 AM
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#7. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 6


New HArtford, US
          

>>I believe I used to notice a preflash...
>
>I don't think it's feasible to distinguish visually the
>pre-flash as a separate pulse - the time lapse between it and
>the actual flash is very short.

Brian,
Thanks. I'm not sure what I was experiencing when I thought I had a preflash. I went back and checked EXIF data and red eye reduction was definitely off

I want to relabel my post;

"Rantings of a Madman."

Thanks for everyone's help.

Lessons learned:
1) It's usually not the equipment but user error.
2) Use spot exposure for TTL as opposed to TTL-BL
3) Flash cannot compensate for manually set exposure set up to underexpose. ie low iso high f stop high shutter speed

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Tue 15-Feb-11 12:52 AM
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#8. "MYSTERY SOLVED :RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 7


New HArtford, US
          

Tonight I accidentally reproduced the "preflash".

I had exposure delay on initially.
This separates the imperceptible preflash from the flash.
I must have had this on accidentally a few nights ago and thought it was a normal preflash.
When it disappeared I thought I had a malfunction when in reality everything was working properly.

I don't think exposure delay is indicated anywhere in the EXIF data.

Last lesson learned;

TURN OFF EXPOSURE DELAY BEFORE TURNING OFF CAMERA.

Thanks for all who responded to my non-issue.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Tue 15-Feb-11 01:25 AM
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#9. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 7


US
          

Hi John,

>3) Flash cannot compensate for manually set exposure set up to
>underexpose. ie low iso high f stop high shutter speed

When shooting in Manual exposure mode with i-TTL flash control, you must set the ISO, Aperture, and Shutter Speed to under expose for the ambient lighting to provide enough headroom for the Speedlight to make up the difference. The key is to not under expose the image by a margin larger than your Speedlight can provide the power to overcome.
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Tue 15-Feb-11 01:47 AM
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#10. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 9


New HArtford, US
          

Thanks Marty,
I usually set manually to underexpose by 2 stops. I meant it is possible to really underexpose beyond limits of flash to compensate, even for the primary subject.
While my original post was a mistake I did learn a few things. Thanks again.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Sun 13-Feb-11 07:35 AM
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#4. "RE: Flash issue please help"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Hi John,

>Shouldn't I be able to manual expose at f-stop 10, iso 100 and
>shutter speed 200, especially with an external flash?

It depends on what the flash to subject distance is.
Is your subject within the range indicated on the distance scale in the Speedlights LCD display?
Good luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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