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Subject: "JPEG or RAW/NEF" Previous topic | Next topic
captainkev Registered since 24th Jan 2011Fri 28-Jan-11 06:21 PM
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"JPEG or RAW/NEF"


Washington Township, US
          

I have always shot in JPEG mode on my D70, but am considering NEF now that I have been playing around with my D7000 and all the settings.
What do most of you use ? I almost always do some tweaking in PSE9 so would all NEF/RAW be the way to go ?

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
billD80 Silver Member
28th Jan 2011
1
Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
gkaiseril Gold Member
28th Jan 2011
2
Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
captainkev
28th Jan 2011
3
     Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
JosephK Silver Member
28th Jan 2011
5
Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
PROWLER69 Silver Member
28th Jan 2011
4
Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
Gamecocks Silver Member
28th Jan 2011
6
     Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
captainkev
29th Jan 2011
7
Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
ReadnFool
29th Jan 2011
8
Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
briantilley Moderator
29th Jan 2011
9
     Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
mdallie Silver Member
02nd Feb 2011
10
          Reply message RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF
captainkev
07th Feb 2011
11

billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Fri 28-Jan-11 06:30 PM
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#1. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

>I have always shot in JPEG mode on my D70, but am considering
>NEF now that I have been playing around with my D7000 and all
>the settings.
>What do most of you use ? I almost always do some tweaking in
>PSE9 so would all NEF/RAW be the way to go ?


Two points:

Every single time you save a JPEG, you lose some quality. It may be undiscernable at first, but it happens. With NEF/RAW, you lose nothing. So you can edit and re-edit to your heart's content, then save to JPEG.

IF you're going to shoot NEF's keep in mind that ONLY View NX2 and Capture NX2 directly convert the settings from your D7000.

If I'm just hacking around at a party, I might shoot JPEG's, but for anything remotely serious, I only shoot NEF/RAW.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Fri 28-Jan-11 08:13 PM
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#2. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 0


Chicago, US
          

NEFs are like the old photographic negative, you fully modify the image and develop the image for printing or as another format. The NEF is a Tiff image with each sensor pixel's value record with only the Long Exposure Noise Reduction being applied to the data. All other camera settings are recorded as part of the MakerNote in the EXIF data of the image. The NEF will have either a 12 bit or 16 bit color depth depending upon the bit depth set by the camera.

A Jpeg is like a print, the cameras sensor data has been applied or developed into the pixels of the sensor. This limits the amount of modification that can be applied to the Jpeg. As noted, with certain compression options, one can lose the subtle color hues.

The camera setting recorded within the NEF are only processed by Nikon View NX 2 and Nikon Capture NX 2, all other editors ignore this data. Nikon Capture NX 2 can also save the edits performed in Capture NX 2 as a NEF. These edits are saved as additional data within the MakerNote like the in camera settings, and these changes can easily be reversed as can the in camera settings. The results of edits in Capture NX 2 will only be recognized by other programs if the edited image is either transferred as a Tiff with either 8 or 16 bit color depth or an 8 bit Jpeg.

The NEF file, like all RAW files, is a format unique to Nikon and Nikon may change some the internal format to their specifications. RAW formats generally do not have a publicly available format description. The only exception is Adobe's DNG format, for which Adobe has made the description of the the file a public document. This is also why it is important to keep any software up to date because as each new camera model is introduced, the RAW file type identification and processing has to be added to the software.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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captainkev Registered since 24th Jan 2011Fri 28-Jan-11 08:32 PM
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#3. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 2


Washington Township, US
          

I just downloaded the plug in from Adobe for RAW processing and it did show the D7000 on the list of cameras it works with. Does this still not give the same handling of the image as does the Nikon software ?
I have been using PS for quite a while and am very familiar with its functions and would prefer not to switch. However I also dont want to be loosing a significant amount of capabilities.

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JosephK Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Fri 28-Jan-11 08:42 PM
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#5. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 3


Seattle, WA, US
          

Only Nikon's software reads 100% of the data in the NEF file. Most/all other raw converters read the raw image data and only the white balance setting (ignoring the sharpening, contrast, saturation, etc.). Canon raw files are handled the same way.

For most of the third party raw converters, there is a set of default settings for each camera that get applied for the ignored settings. Often you can change these defaults, but changing them does not necessarily help beyond a given batch of photos.

Since everyone's raw converters allow you to change the settings for each photo, the difference is in what the initial view of the picture is. Nikon's initial view applies all the settings that would have been baked into the JPG while everyone else does not give that specific view.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D200, 17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-200mm f/2.8 VR, 50mm f/1.4 D
18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX, 70-300mm f/4-5.6 ED, D70S

  

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PROWLER69 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Fri 28-Jan-11 08:35 PM
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#4. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 28-Jan-11 08:38 PM by PROWLER69

Wading River, US
          

I shoot RAW only and use Nikon Capture NX-2, Adobe PSE-9, CS-3 and Lightroom 3 and various plug-ins (NIK and Topaz bumdles) for PSE and Lightroom. Do I need all these programs ? No. But over the years I treated my self to new SW and love them all. To be honest I use CS-3 the least as PS Elements will do 95-98 % of what I need to do. I am starting to use NX so much more often then in the past. I like what it does. Lightroom has an extremely easy/intuitive user interface and I use that a lot also.
Eddie


"If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank account".
Woody Allen

http://edmund-365imagesin2009.blogspot.com/
http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/gallery/view_img.php?id=27273

http://www.pbase.com/tomcat68/root

  

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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Fri 28-Jan-11 10:41 PM
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#6. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 4


Joanna, US
          

Hello Kevin,

Welcome to the community. As others have said, there are many reasons to use RAW. If you use ViewNX2, there is a button in the top right section that let's you "convert files" to JPEG or TIFF. This option let's you change the size, etc. so it becomes very easy to download to the forum or gallery or send emails. By shooting RAW, you can convert the frame, or frames, to either of the above and still retain your original data.

John

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <><

  

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captainkev Registered since 24th Jan 2011Sat 29-Jan-11 03:53 AM
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#7. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 6


Washington Township, US
          

thanks for all the feedback. Great people here.............

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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ReadnFool Registered since 16th Jan 2011Sat 29-Jan-11 08:40 PM
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#8. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

As a relative Newbie here is a brief summary of the general consensus I have seen when I researched a similar question.

Raw Files are bigger, higher potential quality, easier to adjust for white balance and contrast.

JPG are smaller, start at the highest quality they can ever achieve, and are more difficult to adjust via computer post processing. But are the simplest and quickest to deal with.

If you just want to take pictures and have the pictures look like they do on the LCD display on the back of the camera shoot jpg. If you just want the picture quick and don't want to deal with 2 - 3 steps of post processing before printing/posting your pictures shoot JPG. If you want your camera to shoot long strings of multiple frames per second, shoot jpg.

If you are comfortable using computers and don't mind a little extra batch work when getting the pictures from the cameram then raw files contain the most information which leaves you the most options to adjust white balance, exposure, color balance, sharpness, delighting, etc. All of the camera adjustments for sharpness, contrast, color balance, etc are applied when viewed on the computer as a starting point, but all the original data from the camera sensor is still there so if you want to apply different sets of processing you go back to the original data which gives you a better result than adjusting the previously adjusted file. Sort of like the loss of quality when copying a copy vs making another copy from the original.

I shoot raw most of the time because with View NX it is only a couple of clicks to download, accept the default settings and convert to jpg if I don't feel like doing the extra work, but since I have the original file if I ever do need to adjust something I have the option.

Steve
ReadnFool

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 29-Jan-11 10:04 PM
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#9. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 8


Paignton, GB
          

>If you are comfortable using computers and don't mind a little
>extra batch work when getting the pictures from the cameram
>then raw files contain the most information which leaves you
>the most options to adjust white balance, exposure, color
>balance, sharpness, delighting, etc. All of the camera
>adjustments for sharpness, contrast, color balance, etc are
>applied when viewed on the computer as a starting point...

...if you use Nikon's View NX or Capture NX to convert the NEF's. Other software ignores the in-camera settings apart from White Balance.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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mdallie Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jan 2011Wed 02-Feb-11 01:41 AM
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#10. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 9


Novi, US
          

I used to shoot weddings and due to the fast pace and changing light conditions, always shot RAW as I couldn't afford to have white balance I couldn't adjust. Once I gave the weddings up, up I have mostly shot JPG. Lots of my work is outdoors and auto white balance usually works good outdoors. I also watch my histogram so I am pretty sure I've got a decent exposure.

Now I am planning a trip to Italy. This is my dream of a trip for photography and I am thinking I am going to shoot RAW; however, my D7000 files seem to be about 20MB per picture. I expect to shoot at least 1000 images, maybe 2000 images. If my math is right, that is between 40GB and 80GB. Aside from the cost of having enough cards, that is a lot of disk space (all my images reside on three drives plus a cloud backup service). Processing them is also slower (despite a MacPro with dual quad-core processors, sometimes it still seems slow when editing 20MB files). Then there is the post-process. If I shoot NEF files, I am almost compelled to do a lot of work. In JPG, I am less apt to do significant post-work.

On the other hand, for Italy, it would be my intention to take many, many, pictures. But the fact of the matter is that I can only get an audience to sit through a slide show of about 100 pictures max. So if I select my pictures wisely and only edit the final 100, the time isn't so great. So then it is only a matter of storage.

At the end of the day, I think I'll shoot RAW as I could never live with myself if I skimped on that picture of the Colliseum, or Vatican City, or the Forum, etc., and then found out it needed adjustments I couldn't pull off on a JPG. The NEF is my lowest risk alternative.

But for my typical family shots, kids soccer games, the local zoo, etc., I'm going to stay with JPG. It really doesn't seem to be a problem.

Mike

  

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captainkev Registered since 24th Jan 2011Mon 07-Feb-11 07:45 PM
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#11. "RE: JPEG or RAW/NEF"
In response to Reply # 10


Washington Township, US
          

After lots of pics with the new camera body, upgrade from D70, I am sold on RAW. I like to tweak anyway, and am finding much more depth to the NEF pictures that I have been taking.

Thanks for all the input,

Kevin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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