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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 06:55 AM
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"Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
Fri 17-Dec-10 06:55 AM by km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
          

I've been watching from the sidelines on several forums and reading the posts about D7000 problems and have come to the conclusion that Nikon is marketing the camera wrong, and aiming it at the wrong customers.

It has too many auto modes such as scenes which Nikon is promoting as an easy to use camera for anyone. It is clearly not a camera for everyone, its greater performance requires more understanding of exposure, focusing, gain and processing than other beginner cameras. It should be considered in the same class of operator needs and skill as a D3x.
Most of the posts regarding problems have showed a very low understanding of photography basics in light, exposure, DOF, resolution etc, which resulted in the owners not being able to do even the most common diagnostics to determine were the problem is. Without a doubt, thousands of those first D7000's exchanged were done so by users who just did not know what they were doing, despite having has history with other Nikon's or DSLR that required less attention to basics and fundamentals. A lot of space here has been wasted with the user posting no images. Some have found that the more they used it, the less broken the camera became. Or the more care with which focusable scenes are approached, the AF system suddenly became less defective, in fact pretty darned impressive. The "over exposure problem" is an example. Not one person who understanding how meters works and what they do NOT indicate has reported over exposure problems. Funny how only low information users ended up with the "defective" cameras.

It appears that Nikon tried to intensely to appeal to all sorts of users as a replacement for a point and shoot or mid line, or even a D300s. It certainly can in each of those cases, replace the camera but it does not suit the typical users of all those types.
When their experiences was questioned most responded that they have had x number of cameras before as proof of them knowing about photography fundamentals. Yet in each of those cases they were not able to do the most basic diagnostics of their images and conditions to point to the source of their problem.
Nikon really needs to drop any pretense that the D7000 is for everyone. The D90 was probably the highest performance camera that could possibly marketed that way.
I am not sure if the cause of this is the dismal state of science education in the US and UK or lack of curiosity that causes people to accept any rumor or assumption without digging deeper and learning more of the fundamentals, I am sure Nikon over estimated the knowledge and logic of western users and is surprised by the negative press their camera is getting in some circles.
It appears that the D7000 is too much camera for typical consumers. They will be happier with a D90 or D3100.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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ConnorH
17th Dec 2010
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ConnorH Registered since 04th Dec 2010Fri 17-Dec-10 07:15 AM
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#1. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


AU
          

I don't know about this - I didn't ready ANY marketing fluff before opting for the d7k. I read reviews and forum posts, including the negative ones.

  

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richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 07:52 AM
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#2. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


Dyserth, GB
          

<<Funny how only low information users ended up with the "defective" cameras>>

Stan.

With respect you have contributed some great stuff in the forums and in many ways you were helpful to me also. However, I find your some of your statements today slightly arrogant, crass and downright unhelpful.

I did present images, loads of them. In my case I did have the camera replaced and I took evidence with me (images) which were readily accepted by the store and oh, yes for once the guy who attended to me was not a any old shop assistant, but a Nikon user of many years. He agreed that my evidence showed not just "soft" but darn right out of focus. I certainly and a fact mirrored by others, have never had to work so hard to capture an acceptable image. If I thought it was just me I'd put my hand up to it.

I would agree with you partly, but certainly not wholly, that the marketing may be wrong. However, it does not overcome the simple problem that a camera should work with a Nikon lens first time and give acceptable results. My D300 and D700 did, so why not the D7000? A no brainer when one has spent so much money trusting in a manufacturers hype. I also do not believe that the vast majority of forum users are "technologically stupid". I have received many e-mails outside of the forum by trusted Nikonians stating in my case that they did not think that my posts were wide of the mark.

<<I am not sure if the cause of this is the dismal state of science education in the US and UK or lack of curiosity that causes people to accept any rumor or assumption without digging deeper and learning more of the fundamentals>>

There may well be some truth in that statement, but the commentators have found their way here to Nikonians. So give us some credit please. Until 6 months ago I worked in Science & Technology as a schools advisor after 40 years as Senior Instrument and Electronics Engineer, I can assure you the "bright young things" still exist, alive and kicking.

I have to say Stan, I respect and read your posts with great interest and your photographic intelect is obviously very sound. However, I am not sure that the inferences in your post this time are helpful.

Richard

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Visit my website www.pixels4u.co.uk
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. Einstein

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Fri 17-Dec-10 09:47 AM
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#3. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


Paignton, GB
          

I wouldn't have put it in such forthright terms, Stan, but I believe there is some truth in what you say.

Especially when one has experience with other DSLR's, it is easy to say to oneself - perhaps unconsciously - "those other cameras worked fine straight out of the box; I'll be able to handle this one without thinking about it". I know I was guilty of that mindset when I moved from a 6MP D70 to a 10MP D200 then swiftly added a 12MP D2Xs. After some initial disappointment, I realised (helped by members here) that I needed to re-evaluate my technique and approach, and take more care over setting up the camera and handling it in the field.

Again, when a couple of years later the above two cameras were replaced by a D300 and then D700, my first impressions were that the AF system had taken a step backwards for use with birds in flight, but in time it proved to be a matter of understanding how CAM3500 operates and learning what combination of settings works best for each type of subject.

I was eventually very happy with the new cameras, but both transitions were not without some pain.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 10:17 AM
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#4. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 3


Dyserth, GB
          

Brian

Your experiences from D70 to D200 and D2x mirror mine in my aquisition of a D7000, whilst still owning a D700 and having had a D300 and D90. So a bit in reverse really and demonstrated my lack of knowledge. In some ways the experience has had a positive effect in that transition. I will now be the first to say this learning curve has helped my understanding of the Nikon technology processes in a very positive way. Also, from my original posts and because it was related, I moved on to Nikon CNX sofware issue, which once again totally enhanced my understanding which I was previously lacking.

I am now becoming to really enjoy my D7K and at last can say it has been a successful purchase after all.

In short, those are the absolute positives of Nikonians and this is provided by the wealth of knowledge shared by the members. Long may that remain to be the case and the feeling that my subscription is worth while.

Richard.

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Visit my website www.pixels4u.co.uk
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. Einstein

  

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Fri 17-Dec-10 02:04 PM
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#10. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 3


Ellington, US
          

I have my heart set on a D7000. The D700 is actually my dream machine, but for the money, I'll punt and use the extra cash for lens and maybe a new computer.

Having said that, I am kinda fearful of my initial D7000 experience. I feel like I know my D70s like the back of my hand; I have taken probably over 60K pictures with this device, and I think it's an outstanding little camera! Only 6MP, no Active D-Lighting, no high ISO capabilities (max's out at 1600, fortunately Lightroom 3 does a good job of cleaning up the noise at that level -- I only shoot RAW images mostly in Aperture Priority mode), no support for teathered capture, no fancy circuitry to clean up after your mistakes -- no nothin' other than the promise of being a black box that will capture great images if you point it at something interesting and press the button. If I could find a D70s that supports the cature of clean images at ISO 6400 I'd be as happy as a pig in mud so to speak as the vast majority of my pictures take place in doors and at night.

So what are the key areas one must pay particular attention to in getting acquainted with the D7000? Focus engine? Light meter? Lens aperture? Shutter speed?

Beemerman2k
2000 BMW R1100RT Motorcycle
Nikon D7100
Nikon D70s w/ SB600
Nikon N70 w/ SB28

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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Fri 17-Dec-10 11:54 AM
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#5. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


Joanna, US
          

I believe you have some valid thoughts as it seems the volume of posts regarding "defective body", "soft focus", etc. has certainly decreased. However, I do believe that there have been some bodies that may not have had good QC and was rushed to fill the many orders. Some times the "first out" may have kinks and this will lead to negative statements. Nikon seems to have addressed the "hot pixel" issue thereby acknowledging that there have been some problems. Also, perhaps some of the lenses that appeared to perform well did not do so when the extra "stuff" that the 7k has came into play.
There are many owners that have not had any problems, or very slight issues, from the very beginning and this could be a result of having a good camera and good knowledge of the techniques required. Slight problems seems to have been resolved once a desire to look for answers was undertaken.
In any event, this community has come forward and offered ideas and help to all. Some of us, certainly me, don't have the expertise to "figure it out" and have benefited from the many positive posts and I certainly appreciate any patience given to my questions and take ownership of my lack of total knowledge.

Regards,

John

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <><

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Fri 17-Dec-10 01:11 PM
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#6. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 5


US
          

I appreciate Stan's post, plus the earlier one requesting images be posted if complaints were to be registered on the forum...

I for one have no patience with gear that's defective, and have returned a few lenses in my time. Funny how we used to read about lenses back/front focussing -- NOW it's the camera!

I never saw ANY ads prior to purchasing the D7000. I was gearing up for a D400, but after reading Ken Rockwell's review, I went ahead and got the D7K.

Best camera I've ever used, on a number of levels.

Personally, I think comments based on shooting lens caps in dark rooms are ridiculous, and I sincerely hope Nikon doesn't over-react to comments from people who wouldn't know what to do with a "perfect" video camera if their life depended on it.

Yes, shooting bats in a coal-mine might become the next big thing, but really, doesn't anyone go out and take real pictures anymore?

Some of the "solutions" offered for what is obviously bad technique are laughable... and don't bear repeating, and yes, there HAVE to be a percentage of cameras not within spec, but it's amazing how many threads begin (here and elsewhere) where the poster (not uncommonly with under 15 total posts) is all set to find issues as opposed to capturing images.

Occam's razor is a good standard: Related to the subject at hand, it goes like this. If, using a D7000, you can't get consistently sharp, color-accurate, almost noise free images, up to ISO 3200, hand-held @ 1/30th with a normal range zoom lens, then the likely problem is technique, not the technology.

Yes, there will have to be times that a defective D7000 is the explanation, but not very often, and especially not relative to people who seem unable to post actual images, in part because they appear to have posted comments on forums within minutes of opening the box their camera came in.

Not long ago I read a post where the person is convinced their camera, now returned, was defective, but they're unable to say what the fault was! Chances are the new D7000 has "improved" because the user is getting used to it having had practice on the first one!

Naturally, any camera costing more than $50. shouldn't have manufacturer defects, and should be returned for having such. But, in point of fact, the D7000 is easily one of the best cameras ever made.

For some people, if they can't get great images from the D7000, then they simply don't need one, they don't know what to do with one, and shouldn't have purchased one in the first place.

In the end, I think KR is right: "The D7000 is Nikon's most advanced camera at any price. The fact that it sells for $1,200 makes it a no-brainer, which is why it's sold out. The D7000 is Nikon's best DSLR ever."

I agree. But best for Nikon to produce may not be the best for everyone to purchase...

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 01:23 PM
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#7. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


Toronto, CA
          

Stan,

I tend to agree with most of what you say here. You make some valid points.

Nikon's marketing strategy imo had everything to do with the d300s market. I would say that Nikon's thinly veiled attempt not to destroy their d300s market failed badly on two fronts. First, the d300s sales have seized up anyway resulting in large price drops. Second, it resulted in people buying the d7k believing it to be a more amateurish camera that would be easier to use than the d300s. Indeed these people may be better off with a d3100. That being said, if they are prepared to put in the effort, the d7k is a camera they can grow with and in my opinion has more to offer than any other DX camera, and as much as some of the FX range.

I am on the fence about whether the d7k is too much camera for the typical consumer. It is really not that hard to use in my experience with it. I do wonder if there is an element of people just expecting the camera to do all the work. I do note that the 'problem posts' are very reminiscent of the posts we see every time Nikon releases a camera. I do not think the d7k posts are that unusual in the big picture. They are largely reflective of undetected user error, common minor issues (hot pixels) and the rare occasional defective camera (everyone puts out a lemon from time to time).

Jason

p.s. All that being said, it would be nice if people stopped shooting flawed angled test charts and screwing around with AF fine tune, especially with zoom lenses. You are practically guaranteeing that you will never get consistently sharp photos.

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Zevi Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Feb 2008Fri 17-Dec-10 01:32 PM
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#8. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


Ann Arbor, US
          

It is often said, that how food is served and presented, is more important than how it tastes.

If your intention, Stan, was to say that users here post questions that they could otherwise answer themselves by putting some effort into it, like reading the manual, or that they mistakenly suspect as a "camera problem" what in reality is "a user problem," if that was your intention, than I'm sorry to say that it was badly lost due to inappropriate serving.

I can only echo Richard's sentiments regarding the mixed feelings of appreciation and regard to your helpful input in the past on one hand, with complete disapproval of the provocative, elitist-like tone in your recent message. Frankly, a generalized statement such as the cause of this is the dismal state of science education in the US and UK is downright insulting.

Not withstanding the fact that sometimes there's a true issue with the equipment, the bottom line is very simple, and it follows the elementary physics law of "The path of least resistance." If anybody is to be "blamed", it is the collective known as the Nikonians. There are so many helpful people here who are genuine and eager to offer assistance, to the point that sometimes we (I am definitely guilty of that) post a question, knowing that we will get a faster, more thorough answer than reading any manuals or other online resources.

Some of those who bought this wonderful camera, were disappointed not to get great images right out of the box as they might have expected. Even though they could have found the answer themselves if they put more effort into it -- addressing this community with a question and getting great feedback was the easier path they chose. Nothing is wrong with that, and that's (among other things) is what this forum is about.

This is a place (at least I want to think so) about people helping people and sharing their photographic views (which you have done so many times in the past), and not about people putting down other people.

Cheers,
Zevi.


  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 02:09 PM
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#11. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 8


St Petersburg, RU
          


First off, I never said there were no problems with a some cameras, although surely not the thousands that have been returned.

I made a straight forward statement that people buying this camera and not being able to do basic diagnostics to determine if the camera was defective, are buying a camera that is too demanding for them. There is nothing wrong with not knowing the fundamentals, there are lots of products aimed for that approach, the D7000 and D3x are two products that are not however.

In many fields there are hobbyists who enjoy their activity that involves some equipment but not many I've seen where the equipment was expected to take all responsibility for its proper use away from the user and apply it to the service. That is not elitist to call out the bizarre nature of that notion. Every new product does not have to apply to every person, in fact, quite often demanding precision products are not well suited to most people who have the money to buy them.
If a unit has a manufacturing defect, it should be returned, but why are so few new users able to determine if it has a problem? And what is a problem and when is it a feature not understood(case in point, the complaint of over exposure, the DPR reviewer clearly did not understand it and apparently the nature of light and meters in general). There were a few people who posted images and that was something that could be worked with, it made offering advice by the experienced D7000 users more effective. But most did not post any, and just complained, over and over.
The complaints are dropping as more hours are being spent with it, which is an indication the camera probably is not the root of those reported problems.
I plead guilty to writing with arrogance if that is what calling the camera ill-suited to some users. I stand by that.
Those without the skills/knowledge set but are patient and determined to learn are not complaining and will soon be rewarded by their efforts.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Coldfront Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2004Fri 17-Dec-10 07:33 PM
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#17. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 11


Marengo, US
          

I think Stan is pretty much correct on this issue. Let me plead the case of the uminformed. About a year ago I posted regarding my interest in getting up to speed in digital,being an old film guy.I had been looking for instruction and excluding point and shoot the lowest level body specific instruction was wih the D90. I was saving for a D300s. I gave my dilema to the Nikonians and was advised to put my money in glass and when I felt severly limeted with my D70 then go to a more current body. I set my sights on a 70-300mm VRII which suited my needs since I photograph my dogs in competition and needed more reach than my 80-200 2.8 had.Getting frustrated with my plodding along and lack of formal instruction I was about to bite on a kit deal at costco including aD90 the 70-300. an 18-55 and a whole bunch of stuff.I called my local shop on another photo question and when I mentioned the D90 was told I should really look at the D7000 instead of The D90 kit.Of coures Nikon had a price on a camera lense combo, being a sucker for a deal.I purched the D7000 and the wanted 70-300 VRII.The reason for the epiloge is this is how someone walks himself into a camera that is way over his head.Bang for the buck on the latest technology.Years ago when I was learning Photagraphy in addition to formal classes I would read all the magazines I could get my hands on,of coures I picked up tips But it also created good questions.When I ran into a knowledgeable person I had those good question.These forums serve that pupose now. I am sure I'm not alone In aquiring a camera that I hope to grow into,and I am guilty of laziness of going to the forums insread of looking it up.
thanx for listening to my life story and Thank God for the "Nikonians" Jim

Coldfront

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richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 02:20 PM
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#12. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 8


Dyserth, GB
          

I think it true to say that all the posts are reasonable assumptions and I've often said that lazyness not to read a manual etc, is mostly the territory of the engineer or scientist. I know this as I am one and can be guilty as charged at times. However, there is little difference in "how" to take a picture in the manual compared to any other Nikon dSLR manual (D300, D90, D700 etc). I've had read it on first opening the camera, but I admit to only really studying it when the problem I had became apparent. In my case read it as I may, studying the manual was unable to diagnose and cure my problem, neither was I. In fairness to Nikon their manuals are pretty good and cover most things, although a Rookie Nook book would be helpful if available. Next stop then "Nikonians" where I posted images and received the usual courteous help. In simple terms the cavalry arrived.

So, was my problem me? Camera 1 - No, definitely not. Took camera 2 out of box and took similar images as camera 1 with the same long lens and same camera settings. Result, some slight softness only, no out of focus. Medicine, learn about AF Fine Tune although I was very cautious. Result, back to the IQ expected after spending £1100 and equalling my other cameras.

So there we are, all sorted. However, only with the help of the forum.

Richard

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The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. Einstein

  

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vladman Registered since 25th Jun 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 01:58 PM
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#9. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


London, GB
          

Hi Stan,

With all due respect to you as a person and a far more seasoned Nikonian than myself, I find your post presumptuous, arrogant and provocative. Yes, I'm aware I'm new here, and don't think for one second I have the experience or knowledge anywhere near yours, but I'm not sure what you were trying to achieve with that post (perhaps just venting)? You have a point, to an extent, the camera is complex and demanding of the user in order to get the best results from it (I relish this, and ALWAYS think there's more to learn!), but beyond that, your repeated statements and allusions (backed by no facts whatsoever) at the stupidity, poor understanding and inability of the majority of us to use a camera are nothing short of rude and insulting.

Yes, I'm one of those that didn't post any examples in my first post, because stupidly (pun intended) I erased all the test images I have taken. Perhaps this is because prior to the experience with my first D7000, I was far more used to taking normal photographs of normal subjects and my normal wokflow, rather than those of test charts, in rigorous testing conditions such as those I tried to create when I was doing that, and the sorting and marking required for this. In the end, I ended up taking about 1200 photos with my first camera, the vast majority of those being test and comparison shots, as I wanted to root out even the tiniest possibility that the fault was with my technique. I would convince myself the camera had an issue, but would hold off from posting here, or making a decision, and the next day, I would repeat my tests, shoot more subjects, until I was finally convinced the issue was with my camera.

I'm a total amateur, but I most certainly feel confident I definitely understand the basics of photography very well.

D90 was my very first (D)SLR, so I bet you probably think I had major issues with that, and thought I had a faulty camera? Wrong. I was delighted with it from day one, enjoyed using it and only posted about my positive experiences with it (although I'm not the most active forum user), when I felt the need to. I read the D90 manual cover to cover, and I also read Thom Hogan's manual for the D90 (nearly 800 pages) cover to cover too, AND enjoyed it, and didn't skim through anything, instead taking my time to understand everything Thom was talking about. I intend to do the same with his D7000 manual, when it becomes available.

My second post very clearly shows that there was in issue with my first camera, and that the second one is performing much better (as it should). I didn't need to take another 1200 images with the new camera to convince myself it was working fine. Instead, 10 or 15 were enough. I welcome your comments at the examples I've posted.

Again, I'm new here, don't really know anyone, and have definitely found the majority of the people here very helpful. I do not want to start on the wrong foot here, so to speak, but I felt I had to respond to your post, in the manner that I have. I see you've contributed a lot, and want to believe 99% of those posts were helpful and insightful. However, I don't think this one falls into either of those two categories.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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donfaulk Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Aug 2009Fri 17-Dec-10 02:41 PM
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#13. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


Madison, US
          

Stan...
If it was your intent in this posting to be provocative, you have admirably succeeded.
...Don F.

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Fri 17-Dec-10 04:28 PM
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#14. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 13


US
          

I think Stan's points are extremely valuable. Not at all intended, or taken by me to disparage ALL of the posters with D7K issues.

Richard, for instance, posted images to back up what he was experiencing, and seems to have been helped by the many responses to his experiences.

In terms of the US/UK science thing, I'd like to put it another way...

It is my view, and I started saying this after living overseas 20+ years ago, that we Americans often don't know anything about high-end items that we've purchased.

Case in point, MOST people I've asked about how many cylinders in their new car's engine (expensive BMW, ACURA, LEXUS, etc.) have not one clue about the answer... They've spent $30-40K and don't know what's under the hood, and therefore, why they bought it (apart from the label).

As someone who SOLD SLR's to help pay the bills through grad school, it was easy to spot the growing phenomenon of people having more money to spend than skill to use. Moving overseas, where taxes make things WAY more expensive, I found that MOST buyers actually knew what they were paying for, otherwise they wouldn't pay for it.

To me, the phenomenon is about much easier access to high-end technology, than a lack of education... 50-60 years ago, a top end 35mm camera could cost around 6 WEEKS WAGES.

My dad's 1955 Canon cost $250. THEN! $250. in 1955!

And let's use that as an example... That machine was inexpressibly more difficult to use than a D7000, and the results, even with Kodachrome 64, wouldn't compare. Ever try loading 35mm film into a bottom panel insert? How about a secondary light meter to expose SLIDE film? How about calculations needed to properly expose flashbulbs? Range-finder manual focus?

So, there's a lot in Stan's post that I resonate with.

This doesn't mean every person with D7K issues is wrong, but when you look around here and elsewhere, some of the whining is a bit much, and the expectations are demonstrably silly. Like, if you post an image that supposedly has too much noise, then the image should have noise, just a little...

It reminds me of a story of this guy (maybe 3 years ago) who bought a $5000. Nikon, and wondered why his pictures still looked like snapshots... Recall, Firmware update...

Personally, with what little I know, it's fun sharing tips that could be helpful. I've been helped a good deal myself.

Stan's post is helpful because it challenges all of us to get the most out of what our tools can do and be careful about blaming our gear when our equipment can't do the near impossible.



www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Fri 17-Dec-10 05:18 PM
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#15. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 14


Ellington, US
          

I agree with Stan, here, too.

There's no need for anyone to get offended with his post; he's only expressing his own observation of things. This is what he sees, you may see something different. Reality is yet a third factor that none of us really sees! Each of us can only account for our own situation.

Having said that, Stan's post is also a challenge for each of us to consider the possibility that our camera's are not as flawed as we might think. I am a software engineer by trade and I am constantly being told by end users that the product doesn't work properly. Then I have to explain to them that what they are doing is not at all what the product is intended to do, or that they failed to do preliminary work that is clearly stated in the manual, or that they need to RTFM in the first place.

Apple Computer is so successful because they have found a way to deliver products that one can enjoy without having to RTFM. The crop of digital SLR's that offer this type of ease are not the same ones that we need to produce the outstanding images we desire. Therefore, the challenge is simply that we make sure we know the product before proclaiming that its defective. The D7000 is not a D70s (my sweet heart of a camera), therefore when I get one, I had better not expect it to behave like one.

I asked this question earlier in this thread, but I got no responses, so I'll ask again:

What are the aspects of this camera that are throwing people for a loop? The light meter? Autofocus engine? Settings? What seems to be the issue that makes people think the camera is flawed only later to realize it isn't so flawed after all -- aside from the hot-pixels in video mode?

Beemerman2k
2000 BMW R1100RT Motorcycle
Nikon D7100
Nikon D70s w/ SB600
Nikon N70 w/ SB28

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po6ept Registered since 27th Nov 2010Fri 17-Dec-10 05:40 PM
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#16. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 17-Dec-10 06:01 PM by po6ept

Peoria, US
          

While user education, skill, and expectations may have led some users to report nonexistent problems, there are still quite a few camera samples out there with real problems. Even if we apply a strong "Internet opinion filter" we can still observe valid trends.

I own (and am delighted with) one of the D7000 bodies with the video pixel problem. I also replaced one that recorded videos that looked like a Hubble star map photo. A few naysayers claimed that all reviewers with the problem suffered from ignorance and/or buyer's remorse, but by providing compelling evidence to Nikon support we were proven right. I was satisfied when Nikon recognized the problem and I am looking forward to the new firmware.

We should not presume that all of the early problems were with the person behind the viewfinder. Dismissing all of the reports as hogwash is as big a mistake as simply believing everything you read.

Stan raised some provocative points and in a few cases buyers may have been happier with a simpler camera. On the other hand, ignorance is highly curable and forums like this are the perfect place to ask and receive advice. I would hate to see anyone assume that any camera is beyond the capability of the user.



Bob
Phoenix, AZ

  

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waldo647 Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jan 2007Fri 17-Dec-10 07:58 PM
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#18. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 16


SF Bay Area, US
          

Here in the USA, Nikon's marketing message seems heavily weighted on the video side. Of course that's important, but based on the print advertising my wife was seeing here in the SF Bay Area, I had to do a fair amount of convincing that I wasn't buying this camera for the video capabilities. She then asked why I wouldn't get the D3100, instead, for a lot less money. More convincing was needed after that...

This may be somewhat typical of marketing these days, at least here in the USA. One can certainly go to Nikon's website, and clarify where the D7000 fits strategically, but it's not very clear in the basic marketing messages.

Also, having read through most of the user's manual first online, and now the paper copy (thankfully the manual is a larger format now, and easier to read) — it's clear to me that this camera is considerably more complex than my D80, which in turn was more complex than the D50 before it. Again, I don't think Nikon is particularly clear about simplicity vs complexity on various models. A marketing expert might easily say this would be a fool's game, or a lose-lose situation. Still most buyers might like to know this, so they can decide what's best for them: D3100 or D7000 or D300s, or a full frame DSLR, or maybe even the P7000. I end up answering questions along these lines frequently, for friends interested in a DSLR.

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Fri 17-Dec-10 08:05 PM
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#19. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 16


US
          

there are still
>quite a few camera samples out there with real problems.

Really? How many?


Even
>if we apply a strong "Internet opinion filter" we
>can still observe valid trends.

Really? I wouldn't put a plug nickel behind the validity of implied trends from the internet.


>We should not presume that all of the early problems were with
>the person behind the viewfinder. Dismissing all of the
>reports as hogwash is as big a mistake as simply believing
>everything you read.

Well actually, I'd like to see a link to a post where reports were dismissed as hogwash. The most observable fact is that a goodly number of highly experienced people have spent a significant amount of time and energy responding thoughtfully and politely to just about every post that's been made on this forum.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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po6ept Registered since 27th Nov 2010Sat 18-Dec-10 08:01 AM
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#23. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 19


Peoria, US
          

>there are still
>quite a few camera samples out there with real problems.

>Really? How many?

Enough to warrant a firmware update for the video problems?


>Well actually, I'd like to see a link to a post where reports
>were dismissed as hogwash. The most observable fact is that a
>goodly number of highly experienced people have spent a
>significant amount of time and energy responding thoughtfully
>and politely to just about every post that's been made on this
>forum.

I completely agree and should have been more clear. Like Stan, I was remarking on the heated comments I've seen from the sidelines on several Internet forums. The thoughtful and respectful environment on Nikonians is a breath of fresh air and is the main reason that I joined. I sincerely apologize if I implied otherwise.

Bob
Phoenix, AZ

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 18-Dec-10 08:17 AM
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#24. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 23


Paignton, GB
          

>>Really? How many?
>
>Enough to warrant a firmware update for the video problems?

I think we all recognise that the video "bright spot" does affect many (most?) D7000's, and appreciate that Nikon are working on a firmware fix.

Apart from that, like Bill I've seen nothing (yet) to persuade me that the D7000 suffers from widespread problems with metering, focus or sharpness.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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po6ept Registered since 27th Nov 2010Sat 18-Dec-10 09:01 AM
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#25. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 24


Peoria, US
          


>Apart from that, like Bill I've seen nothing (yet) to persuade
>me that the D7000 suffers from widespread problems with
>metering, focus or sharpness.

I haven't either Brian. I was specifically talking about the video issue and how much flack folks got (not here) when they initially reported the problem. I have apparently indicated that I think there are other problems inherent to the camera when that's not my opinion at all. I hope this will teach me to write, save, re-read, and only then post...

Bob
Phoenix, AZ

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 18-Dec-10 09:40 AM
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#26. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 25


Paignton, GB
          

No worries, Robert

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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JP_Greywolf Registered since 13th Dec 2010Sat 18-Dec-10 03:32 AM
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#20. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat 18-Dec-10 03:40 AM by JP_Greywolf

Shuswap, CA
          

I have read the original post and the replies and would like to respond here.

I take exception to a post of this nature especially when it implies that a photographer with whom you have no direct knowledge of, is judged incapable of using this camera.

I also find it offensive that a brand new member of this forum who is still discovering their way around is deemed to have wasted time because I have not posted any images.

In response to those two points I wish to share that whenever I use my Ebony or Arc Swiss 4x5 cameras I have never experienced a soft focused image. All of the lens I use including some excellent Schneider, Rodenstock and Nikon glass ...all produce very clear and highly detailed images.

I have also had exceptionally good experiences with my Mamiya 7 II and the three lens I own. Once again, soft focus is not a problem the camera is technically as close to perfect as one might be able to make a 6x7 rangefinder.

I have mis-focused on my subjects, incorrectly on occasion selected an inappropriate exposure combination but there has always been something in those prints that IS clearly in focus.

I have as an amateur, been actively involved in photography and using a darkroom for over 30 years. I am quite comfortable with my skills and understanding of not just the basic principles of photography but also some of the more advanced concepts.

You complain that a lot of space has been wasted by users not posting images. I disagree at least for myself.

I clearly stated up front that I am a relative newcomer to digital photography. For myself it would seem logical and the proper procedure to first ask for assistance and guidance on my concerns before randomly posting the first images I have taken.

It might have been something very simple to rectify that I did not know in regards to DSLR shooting or digital processing. I patiently waited, hoping somebody might suggest possible camera settings or a recommend setting for a "stock image" for posting.

You are making a large assumption as far as I can tell, that an image should always be posted whenever a user is experiencing a problem with their camera, lens or technique.

So...when I post do I shoot raw or do I shoot jpeg? Does it make a difference in being able to diagnose a possible problem? Do I do post processing before I post an image?

Is that an expected and accepted procedure?

Do I make adjustments like sharpening in the camera itself before posting or is that "fudging" the results?

Should I use the auto focusing mechanism or do I manually focus to ensure that the problem is clearly illustrated?

Do I leave the VR active or shall I turn the VR feature off so as to ensure that my image is as accurate a visual representation of my problem?

The thing that I have discovered while trying to educate myself in using Light Room 3 is this. I can make very significant changes to my images that may be considered enhancements but also may be thought of as masking a basic technical problem with the equipment.

So as you can now realize, for a newcomer I choose to ask questions first, look for guidelines and assistance from others before racing ahead and just popping pictures on this site.

In conclusion in this area I am not asking that you answer any or all of these questions at this time. What I am suggesting though, that for a new user to ask questions, seek advice about a perceived issue is a logical process before too quickly posting an inappropriately modified or altered image for evaluation purposes.

I also believe that you should seek out first hand proper knowledge about those of whom you had made a judgement of their skills skills and technical abilities instead of painting us all with such a broad brush and classifying us as incapable of using such a high tech camera.

You know nothing about myself, my technical skills and ability, my history as a photographer and yet you felt justified in make such broad statements as below.


>Most of the posts regarding problems have showed a very low
>understanding of photography basics in light, exposure, DOF,
>resolution etc, which resulted in the owners not being able to
>do even the most common diagnostics to determine were the
>problem is.

Without a doubt, thousands of those first D7000's
>exchanged were done so by users who just did not know what
>they were doing, despite having has history with other Nikon's
>or DSLR that required less attention to basics and
>fundamentals.

A lot of space here has been wasted with the
>user posting no images.



>When their experiences was questioned most responded that they
>have had x number of cameras before as proof of them knowing
>about photography fundamentals. Yet in each of those cases
>they were not able to do the most basic diagnostics of their
>images and conditions to point to the source of their problem.
>

I do not recall you asking myself about my experiences ?


I do not recall saying that I have had a camera before that worked so it must be the camera at fault.

Only because you have implied a low degree of photographic knowledge must accompany a question such as mine, have I now, at this time, include information relating to my other cameras and skills.

Perhaps your time would have been better spent if you had started a new post outlining a clear and concise approach for providing useful images and information so that others may be able to assist in diagnosing the issues.

Of course it is Ok that I make assumptions about your contributions even though I know nothing about you....is it not?

So...you chose instead to paint with a broad brush the lack of skills of D7000 users who were concerned about possible equipment issues.

As you chose to reply in that way, I now choose to respond to your original post and share my viewpoint on this manner.

Is that OK ..the way in which I have responded with my very limited knowledge of your history here?

Jim

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sat 18-Dec-10 04:05 AM
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#21. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 20
Sat 18-Dec-10 04:14 AM by billD80

US
          

Jim, I hope you don't mind my jumping in to respond to one aspect of your post...

It sounds as though you have tremendous experience in the film media. To me, and this is just a guess, you probably have a boatload of awareness on all sorts of things that make great images. All of this knowledge is worth more than the cost of any new camera, but looking at the wider body of posts, it's not a stretch to wonder if a number of people have expected the D7000 to compensate where good technique simply can't be replaced.

So, you are likely way ahead of the game (and in some ways I think Stan's original post is actually affirming what you know).

BUT, digital IS different. For one, almost ALL digital cameras have an anti-aliasing/UV filter IN-FRONT of the imaging sensor. This reduces true resolution that must be returned (simulated?) to the image via in camera or post processed sharpening.

So, for one, the D7000 images can stand a good deal of sharpening without introducing negative artifacts, and not only is it OK to do this, it's truly necessary. The fact that D7000 can handle more sharpening is a good thing...

If you don't add sharpening, the images out of any digital camera will seem dull. Nikon sets their higher-end cameras a bit low on the sharpening factory settings, in part because it's better to add it in later than to bake it into the image too early (especially if you shoot JPEG's where the image is pretty much "baked" in camera). FYI, you can easily set the setting menu for sharpening in the D7000 to at least 6...

Some people feel the contrast level on some Nikons is set a little low (I prefer this because I like to add it later).

For posting, I'd use the View NX2 that came with your camera because View NX2 and Capture NX2 can "translate" what Nikon cameras have done to an image better than ANY other software. You can always import in LightRoom later in the process, but the initial conversion from RAW (NEF) is still best done by View or Capture.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Sat 18-Dec-10 05:09 AM
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#22. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 21


Ellington, US
          

OK, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Today I ordered a D7000 camera, body only, and I expect it to arrive sometime within the next week (hopefully before Christmas). I have some nice glass already in my Tamron 17-50 F2.8 and my Nikon 35mm F1.8, the lens I use most often on my D70s.

So we'll see what happens. I'll either post on this forum how excited I am to have gone from 6mp to 16mp(!) and from ISO 1600 to ISO 25,600(!) and to go from 5 focus points to 39 focus points(!), or I'll get yelled at by Stan for being an idiot

I do have a lot to learn about this camera and how to use all that technology to take what had better be significantly richer and more colorful pictures than I can with my D70s!

Beemerman2k
2000 BMW R1100RT Motorcycle
Nikon D7100
Nikon D70s w/ SB600
Nikon N70 w/ SB28

Visit
My photo gallery.

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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Sat 18-Dec-10 11:46 AM
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#27. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 22


Joanna, US
          

Hello James,

I went from a D70s to the 7k and have no regrets. I either got a very good body that helped with the transition, which to me wasn't that hard, or the time I took reading the manual plus following some suggestions listed on Nikonians made the switch easier. And, since I've not experienced all the dreaded problems, Stan won't have the need to get me either.( ') Good luck.

Regards,

John

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <><

  

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richimage Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Sep 2003Sat 18-Dec-10 05:13 PM
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#39. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 22


Warrenton, US
          

Welcome to my world... I went from my trusty F3's years ago to a D70 and then added a D70s. I sold both recently and ordered a D7000 - mostly based on the reviews and forum comments. I really feel that my film SLR work (over 20 years) has helped my base level of photographic knowledge, and when my D7000 came in (YESTERDAY!), I immediately (how can a one hour initial charge seem to take 3 hours?) set up non-CPU settings for my two favorite (old) lenses - the 105 2.5 and 50 1.4. Very impressive! I then went into M mode and was truly amazed at the quietness and ease of metering compared to the D70. I haven't even gotten into selecting AF points. Today I looked at the "Scene" modes, thinking they were strictly for noobies and found that they were pretty much the equivalent of an experienced photographer's basic/first pass at the proper manual settings for each. Are they perfect? No. Are they in the ball park? Yes. I'm just beginning to delve into the other specialized functionality of this amazing camera and I'm already blown away.

Enjoy your D7000!

Rich

"When the work is done,
And the paycheck has been spent,
What is left but pride?"

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Sat 18-Dec-10 12:58 PM
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#28. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 20


Toronto, CA
          

Jim,

Stan said >most< of the posts...

He did not single you out, I don't think anyone can say that you don't have a solid understanding of photography fundamentals.

In terms of seeking advice here, I highly encourage it.

In your original post you complained of consistently out of focus images and asked for advice. The problem is without an image it is nearly impossible to offer any, there are too many variables that have to be taken into account. An image allows the diagnosing Nikonian to eliminate variables, focus their diagnosis and provide educated advice. It has never ceased on amaze me how Nikonians can diagnose a problem accurately and quickly with an image. Size limits here mean that JPGs are uploaded, but most problems are diagnosed with them, just make sure the EXIF info is not removed.

Sometimes with particularly perplexing problems a linked RAW file is helpful.

I may add that I have not kept count, but overwhelming in these situations, it is not the camera or the lens but unintentional user error (when I use the term error I simply mean using the camera or lens in a way that the manufacturer did not intend and is producing the unwanted result). In some of these situations the person who sought advice was a very experienced photographer.

Brian had a useful suggestion in another thread for technique in taking photos to determine whether you may have a sharpness issue:

"Try to use a tripod and find a flat target that can be arranged parallel to the camera's sensor...Focus on the target, take one image, move the tripod forward a short distance, DON'T RE-FOCUS, take another shot, move the tripod back a little beyond where it started, and repeat. If the first shot is not the sharpest, you have a problem."

Maybe Nikonians can sticky a thread on how to link your gallery here so users can upload problem photos larger than 300k (the limit for posting images to the threads).

Jason

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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output555 Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Aug 2008Sat 18-Dec-10 01:30 PM
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#29. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 28


US
          

Sorry but I have to pile on, too.

Mis-marketing is not at the heart of the complaints against the D7000. No camera, whether it's a Coolpix or a D3x should have fundamental user issues like exposure or focus. There is nothing revolutionary about the D7000, requiring a new learning curve--except maybe for the first-time DSLR user. And even then, he or she should be able to pick up the camera point it at a subject, get confirmation of focus and exposure, and expect a resulting image that's reasonably on the mark. Otherwise, the problem is with the camera, not the user.

I've owned seven different D-model Nikons, from the D40 to the D700, and the D7000 is the first where I have questioned the camera's ability to focus properly. I know backfocusing when I see it and my D7000 is making me wonder if it needs to go back to Nikon for adjustment. Not sure I'm too crazy about it's tendency to overexpose by a 1/3 stop either.

While I'm occasionally apt to badly screw something up, no matter how much I've used a camera, I'm pretty sure the issues I see with the D7000 are not due to my lack of shooting skills.

  

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richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009Sat 18-Dec-10 01:40 PM
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#31. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 29


Dyserth, GB
          

Absolutely 100% correct. It's what I've said for weeks. The only challenge to the experienced user should be whether to buy it not, one expects image quality to come as standard straight out of the box. The minimum expected without any intervention is to be able to take an acceptable quality image immediately. After that one can play around to the hearts desire.

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

Visit my website www.pixels4u.co.uk
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. Einstein

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 18-Dec-10 01:50 PM
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#32. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 29


Paignton, GB
          

>There is nothing revolutionary about the D7000, requiring a new
>learning curve

Revolutionary? Maybe not... but the sensor, the AF system and the metering are all new and different from what has gone before. Is it not at least possible that a bit of experimentation and reading will help?

>Otherwise, the problem is with the camera, not the user.

When one has been around Nikonians for a while, it's not too hard to distinguish between actual camera design or quality problems and other matters, just by analysing the forum posts.

Problems like the infamous "BGLOD" with the D70, the "false low battery syndrome" and "AF-ON with Sigma lenses" on the D300 and the "movie bright spots" issue with the D7000 had all the characteristics of real problems. In time, Nikon acknowledged all of them and issued (or plan to issue) firmware fixes.

Other types of issue have tended to be, on the whole, down to invalid expectations and/or a need to set up and use the camera in an unfamiliar way. A very small (though non-zero) proportion turn out to be individual camera faults - which are typically resolved by exchanging the item or by using Nikon service.

Refusing to believe that the user may be at fault is just as unproductive as assuming that it can't be a camera problem. Closed minds lead to frustration; open minds (and support from other members) lead to solutions

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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output555 Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Aug 2008Sat 18-Dec-10 02:07 PM
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#33. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 32


US
          

"Revolutionary? Maybe not... but the sensor, the AF system and the metering are all new and different from what has gone before. Is it not at least possible that a bit of experimentation and reading will help?"

Sorry Brian, but this doesn't hold a drop of water with me, and has that familiar scent of condescension.

As I said, there is nothing revolutionary about the D7000, including its new sensor and processing. To excuse the problems people are citing as being their need to understand camera better is simply silly. The camera is based on exactly the same design as all Nikons and pretty much every digital camera made. If it's not focusing correctly under normal use, then it's the camera's fault, not the user's ignorance. Memorizing the user manual isn't going to make the camera focus correctly if it's defective.

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Sat 18-Dec-10 03:10 PM
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#34. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 33


Toronto, CA
          


>As I said, there is nothing revolutionary about the D7000,
>including its new sensor and processing. To excuse the
>problems people are citing as being their need to understand
>camera better is simply silly. The camera is based on exactly
>the same design as all Nikons and pretty much every digital
>camera made. If it's not focusing correctly under normal use,
>then it's the camera's fault, not the user's ignorance.
>Memorizing the user manual isn't going to make the camera
>focus correctly if it's defective.

Users have been helped after claiming the camera is defective by being instructed on using a different technique (Eg. instead of shooting long lenses at 1/focal length, trying 1/1.5-2x focal length).

Sometimes it is the camera (individual units can and will be defective, I am sure Nikon has even put out defective D3X units), but usually it is the camera not being used optimally.


Jason

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 18-Dec-10 03:18 PM
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#35. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 33


Paignton, GB
          

History - of previous new and "revolutionary" (or not...) Nikons suggests that you are wrong.

It's not meant to be condescending, but it's simply a fact of life that a new camera may require different ways of setting-up or operating compared with what has gone before. Several examples from the recent past have already been cited in this and other threads, but one more was the widespread dissatisfaction with the AF system in the D2 series when it was launched, which dwarfed anything we are seeing here. Some of our senior members put a great deal of effort into investigating it and understanding how to get the best from it, and wrote very popular guides to help others.

Sticking with the belief that no new camera should need to be "learnt" will never lead to satisfaction.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sat 18-Dec-10 04:55 PM
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#37. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 29
Sat 18-Dec-10 05:04 PM by billD80

US
          

There is
>nothing revolutionary about the D7000, requiring a new
>learning curve--except maybe for the first-time DSLR user. And
>even then, he or she should be able to pick up the camera
>point it at a subject, get confirmation of focus and exposure,
>and expect a resulting image that's reasonably on the mark.
>Otherwise, the problem is with the camera, not the user.

With respect, no. (And this is NOT to negate complaints that are surely valid.)

I can't tell you how many times I handed my D200 off to someone, so I could finally be in a picture, and in point of sad fact, every time I did that the resulting image was truly awful -- usually blurred (and forget composition, which I wasn't counting on).

Why? In large part it's because of poor hand-holding technique.

With the D7000 things would only get worse... It reveals more. Like for instance, I'm going to send in one of my favorite lenses for a realignment because the lower left corner is now perceptibly less sharp than the lower right... The resolution of the D200 wouldn't show this (though in reviewing older images, it's HINTED at), but the D7000 can, and does.

The D7000 may not be revolutionary, but check out the ADL capability -- better than what is done in post-processing. The High ISO, WITHOUT ANY NR, blows the doors off the D200 (which is a great machine). The color rendition is phenomenal on this camera, and, in my view, you have to work at not getting proper exposure.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 18-Dec-10 01:31 PM
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#30. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 28


Paignton, GB
          

>Maybe Nikonians can sticky a thread on how to link your
>gallery here so users can upload problem photos larger than
>300k (the limit for posting images to the threads).

Instructions for using the new automated method of linking to an image in a member's gallery may be found in this pinned thread in our "About Nikonians & Galleries" Forum.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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M_Jackson Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Sat 18-Dec-10 04:50 PM
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#36. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 30


Jackson, US
          

Stan,
I typically, don't make this kind of post, but feel a bit like I am being dragged into it. I am anxious to read what you have to say about a D7000 once you actually own one. It would seem to me your own comments about other people here would have more merit once you experience the camera for a while yourself?

A week or so after I turned my D7000 in for a refund, I deleted all my test shots. Why keep them? But, I did include example images on a DVD, along with prints and a video showing my problems. The DVD stayed with the box going back to Nikon. I even included some images shot with the same tripod, lens, and ball head using my D300 body, taken at the same time, distance and subject. They were considerably better than any image I took with the D7000.

I had a D70, two heavily used D200s, and have two overly used D300 bodies with over 200,000 actuations each. I have the Nikons's pro lenses (200-400vr, 70-200vr, and 24-70mm) and I could not get sharp images. In the two days of testing, I shot over 1500 images on the D7000 and didn't start seeing any kind of sharpness until I finally started pushing the AF Fine Tuning to the limits. I didn't start seeing any improvement in sharpness on the 200-400 until I got to the -15 AF settings, and it was still not sharp at -20. The normally dead-on sharp 24-70 took a -17 adjustment. So, I spent two days trying the various focusing settings and adjustments on 1400 images before finally considering going to the AF Fine Tuning. That was before a few of us started the discussion related to AF Fine Tuning. (It seems so obvious now after considerable discussion here). When I saw Richard's photos, I knew his camera was doing the same as mine. In the end, I was confident I had a camera that was way out of tolerance for a brand new camera. And, my camera had a videos with at least 30 bright colored dots scattered all over it in lighting conditions similar to what you might expect for a 4 year old's birthday party, shot at ISO 320. I didn't need to put the lens cover on the lens to see spots...lots of them.

There is no way this camera could have shot acceptable photos without severe AF Fine Tuning. I can say that because of my experience trying to make it do so with the first 1400 images. With my D300 bodies on the same lenses, I get my share of out-of-focus/blurry images, but I also get a reasonable number of very sharp ones. I am totally willing to write the problem images off as "pilot error" because I know I got the other sharp ones. The only lens I have to AF fine tune on either of my two D300 bodies is the 200-400. I was watching Nikonian forums back when the D200 bodies were getting hammered early on because of "banding". I never saw it on either of my bodies, but I didn't shoot it at a light bulb to try to find banding either. This was different for me.

I didn't buy my D7000 and immediately start looking for problems. They were overly apparent from the first shot on. I'd still be a proud owner of a D7000 if it had preformed well somewhere in the first 200 images. I am very pleased to hear that many people did get one free of any problems. I already have a dedicated HD video camera, so that single issue wasn't a deal breaker. But, getting sharp photos with pro lenses at ISO 400 and below, at least part of the time, is a particularly important requirement for me. Getting sharp images at ISO 1000 to 1600 would have been a real plus.

Again, I would be interested in hearing your comments on a D7000 and all the earlier users once you get one and use it a month or so. I was put off a bit by the nature and tone of your original post, too. It might have some merit, but I am not sure it needed to be said. I come back to this forum off and on to see if there have been any announced fixes or firmware updates and occasionally make suggestions to people like Richard, having similar issues to the ones I was having.

Best regards,
M. Jackson
www.tetonimages.com

  

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richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009Sat 18-Dec-10 05:51 PM
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#41. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 36


Dyserth, GB
          

Mike.

I have just spent 30 minutes writing a long missive on how much I do agree with you. I have however deleted that and written a more consice response! My opinion now is:

I think there are two camps here with totally different trains of thought and opinions. I don't believe we will accept all of what they are saying, but I'm worried that they will accept little of our worries or concerns. The only common ground is that everyone is going to fight their corner, so it's an impass. At the end of the day only time will tell.

It's filled a few hours on a cold winter day though! Good luck and I'm signing off for Christmas now. To everyone, have a great break, enjoy your D7K whatever you are doing with it.

Richard.

Visit my Nikonians gallery

Visit my website www.pixels4u.co.uk
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. Einstein

  

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M_Jackson Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Sat 18-Dec-10 07:47 PM
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#43. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 41


Jackson, US
          

Richard,
There is a bit of a disclaimer in many of the first parts of this thread allowing for the group that did get a bad camera and had some experience in knowing what to be looking for in terms of sharpness and the variable settings. Several of the posters in this thread probably fit the scenario and I felt it was worth noting we are in the mix and still watching.

Since I turned in my D7000, there have been several early morning and late evening instances when I wish I had a body with a better high ISO capability. I seldom shoot over ISO 400 on my D300 bodies. I miss the U1 and U2 settings, too.

We are getting a snow storm here in the Tetons today, so I am heading out to see if I can find some bighorns close to the road.

Happy Holidays to all.

M. Jackson

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Blog: www.bestofthetetons.com
Web Site: www.tetonimages.com

  

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BillboTex Registered since 23rd Nov 2010Sat 18-Dec-10 05:04 PM
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#38. "Thanks Jason"
In response to Reply # 28


Houston, US
          

Jason, I am a newbie here, and a little intimidated by this thread in particular. I have many questions about my D7000 which has not arrived yet, but for now I am only gathering info from this forum which has impressed me!

Thanks for the uploading sticky suggestion - I know I will need it later.

.
.
.

MY SETUP
Nikon D7000 with zoomNIKKOR AF-S DX 10-24mm f3.5,
Tamron AF 18-270mm Macro f3.5 Di II VC LD
and Tamron AF 180mm f/3.5 Di SP A/M FEC LD (IF) 1:1 Macro
Nikon R1 Wireless Close-Up Speedlight System,
ZacutoEVF Pro
Two SanDisk 32GB EXTREME PRO SDHC-UHS-1 (45MB/S)
viewNX2 captureNX2 NIKCompleteCollection Ultimate
Photo Mechanic 4.6.6 Annotate Pro
Vegas Movio Studio 10 Pinnacle Studio Ultimate 14

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Sat 18-Dec-10 05:28 PM
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#40. "RE: Thanks Jason"
In response to Reply # 38


Lowden, US
          

Welcome to Nikonians Bill!

There is no need to be intimidated here at Nikonians. We are here to help people learn. All questions no matter how basic or concerns are welcome here.

Let us know when you get your D7000. We look forward to your participation in the forum.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sat 18-Dec-10 07:19 PM
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#42. "RE: Thanks Jason"
In response to Reply # 38


US
          

I have many questions about my D7000
>which has not arrived yet,


Just shoot some images with it... Don't know what you're using now, but with the D7000, try these settings...

Sharpening: 6
Color: Neutral
High ISO NR: OFF
Active DLighting: Auto or High
Know what your actual focus point is.
Use supplied View NX2 for RAW conversion if you shoot RAW.

Have fun. You've got a great camera on the way.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Sat 18-Dec-10 09:53 PM
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#44. "RE: Maybe the D7000 is being marketed incorrectly....."
In response to Reply # 0


Lowden, US
          

I am pretty sure that Stan did not intend to offend anyone but I can understand how his message may have been misinterpreted. Misunderstandings like this can be a hazard in causal internet communication on message boards like Nikonians.

Threads like this can quickly spin out of control with personal attacks so I would like to commend the participants involved for keeping this argument civil.

Having said that; I agree with Richard (post #41) that this misunderstanding has come to an impasse. It is time to stop pointing fingers and get back to helping each other learn and grow as photographers.

This thread is now locked.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Showcase your best work in any of our 7 Monthly Nikonians Photo contests.

Wildlife | Landscape | Macro | Sports | Travel | Underwater | Online Assignments| Best of 2014

  

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