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Subject: "Video Question: in car autoracing" Previous topic | Next topic
Nikon_EvolutionX Registered since 21st Apr 2014Mon 21-Apr-14 02:53 AM
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"Video Question: in car autoracing"


US
          

Hello,

I have been into photography on and off for about 4 years. Had a d90, d7000 and now a d7100 after a year and a half off. I know how to take still photos but I have a few questions about video. I have only played around a little with the video mode.

My question or questions, are:

I am thinking about using a roll bar mount to mount the 7100 to record the track in front of me and my Drift Ghost S to record behind me. That way I don't need to buy a second Drift Ghost. I found a pretty sturdy roll bar mount for a DSLR but not sure what settings would be good for racing.

I read the 7100 can do 30p and 60i. It said 30p is smoother but in some cases, such as fast moving objects, that 60i may be better. What do you guys think?

Also I read to set the shutter at the FPS (30 fps should be about 1/30) is that true also for faster moving things?

I am thinking I need a wide angle lens as I want it to show from about the left side mirror to the right side. I want to make sure at least part of my helmet is in the video and my hands. I use that part for reviewing after the sessions to see where I am looking and what I am doing with my hands to help improve. On my Drift Ghost I believe the 127 FOV does this.

As far as aperture, I want to get as much in focus as possible but not sure where to focus and what aperture for video. Maybe this isn't too much of an issue with a wide angle lens?

The track sessions run about 20 to 25 min. I believe the 7100 records 20 min in the best mode. Will a remote trigger be able to start the video? The first lap is warm up and the last lap is cool down so I could just start it after the first lap but with the 6 point harness on I can't move much so no way I could reach the camera.

Like I said, I use the video to train myself. Sometimes when you are doing 140 mph entering a turn you kind of get tunnel vision when you are still fairly new and think you are hitting your lines and apex's right but video review later shows you aren't.

Also, it's kind of boring for friends and family to see just one angle the whole time so I figure I could cut back to the rear view shot when I pass people to show how much I pull away. And for bragging rights to my friends that think their BMW's, Porsche, Vetts, and mustangs can beat my little 4 banger 2 liter on the track.

BTW, I have been researching this, it's just hard to find things related to my purpose.

Also I run an external mic to the license plate for sound with the Drift Ghost, for the 7100 I would run an external inside the car out of direct wind or under the hood.

Thank you

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
blw Moderator
21st Apr 2014
1
Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
luckyphoto Silver Member
21st Apr 2014
2
Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
Nikon_EvolutionX
25th Apr 2014
3
Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
PerroneFord Silver Member
26th Apr 2014
4
Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
Nikon_EvolutionX
27th Apr 2014
5
     Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
PerroneFord Silver Member
27th Apr 2014
6
          Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
luckyphoto Silver Member
28th Apr 2014
7
          Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
Uscbryan Silver Member
28th Apr 2014
8
               Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
PerroneFord Silver Member
28th Apr 2014
9
                    Reply message RE: Video Question: in car autoracing
km6xz Moderator
03rd May 2014
10

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 21-Apr-14 12:59 PM
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#1. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

Almost everyone I know uses a GoPro of one sort or another for this purpose. Not being a video guy, I don't know why.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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luckyphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2010Mon 21-Apr-14 01:10 PM
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#2. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 0


Port Charlotte, US
          

Welcome to the Nikonians.

You might consider posting this on the Video form for a wider response.

Knowing a bit about the track environment, does the roll bar mount have sufficient protection against shock and vibration? I'm concerned that the D7100 could be damaged if not properly dampened. That's an expensive video camera solution.

I would be very tempted to get a second Drift Ghost that's designed for higher shock and vibration, than risk an expensive DSLR and lens.

Having two cameras with the same file format will also simplify and speed up your editing.

Good luck.

Larry

"Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right
....and which is an illusion"

Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Nikon_EvolutionX Registered since 21st Apr 2014Fri 25-Apr-14 03:20 PM
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#3. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Thank you. I'm not really new but I can't post in other forums. I paid to reactivate my account 5 days ago but still having problems getting on.

The mount is made for a dslr. It has a piece of urethane to reduce shock.

My main thing was camera settings for that type of recording. I really wouldn't get enough use out of a second drift to make it worth buying another so I figured I would use what I have.

But I will try the video forum once they get my account activated.

Thanks again

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Sat 26-Apr-14 07:37 AM
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#4. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 0


Tallahassee, US
          

Ok, let's take this one at a time...

>My question or questions, are:
>I am thinking about using a roll bar mount to mount the 7100
>to record the track in front of me and my Drift Ghost S to
>record behind me. That way I don't need to buy a second Drift
>Ghost. I found a pretty sturdy roll bar mount for a DSLR but
>not sure what settings would be good for racing.

I would NOT do this. For a couple of reasons.

1. A piece of urethane is NOT going to be adequate protection for a DSLR. You will shake the internal components loose.

2. The Drift Ghost S is several orders of magnitude lighter than a DSLR. Should that mount come undone, you will have a projectile in your car heavy enough to break your arm or penetrate your helmet at the G loads you will be putting it under.

3. Even if the roll-bar mount hods up, it's likely the 1/4"/20 mount on the camera will not. It is not designed to take this kind of stress. At the G loads you are going to see, it's like putting 20+ pounds of stress on that mount, and they have been known to fail with static loads of less than that.

4. The CMOS sensor in this camera will NOT do well with the rapid vibration. You will get jello type video that will be mostly unusable for your purpose.


>I read the 7100 can do 30p and 60i. It said 30p is smoother
>but in some cases, such as fast moving objects, that 60i may
>be better. What do you guys think?

60P would be ideal. Short of that, 30p is your best bet. Interlaced video will not help you so stay away from any "i" settings.

>Also I read to set the shutter at the FPS (30 fps should be
>about 1/30) is that true also for faster moving things?

No. Shutter speeds are typically 1/(2 x shutter) so if you are filming at 30p, your shutter should be 1/60 of a second. Moving to faster shutter speeds like 1/120 of a second will make for sharper images, however, it will introduce a staccato feel to the video that will look like strobing. Try it and see. Put the camera in your hands, and walk around with it shooting different frame rates and shutter speeds and see what you like.

>I am thinking I need a wide angle lens as I want it to show
>from about the left side mirror to the right side. I want to
>make sure at least part of my helmet is in the video and my
>hands. I use that part for reviewing after the sessions to see
>where I am looking and what I am doing with my hands to help
>improve. On my Drift Ghost I believe the 127 FOV does this.

With the size of your sensor, you would need approximately an 8mm lens to match the FOV of the drift cam.

>As far as aperture, I want to get as much in focus as possible
>but not sure where to focus and what aperture for video. Maybe
>this isn't too much of an issue with a wide angle lens?

Focus at those types of focal lengths is immaterial. Everything from a couple of inches in front of the lens out to infinity will be in focus.


>The track sessions run about 20 to 25 min. I believe the 7100
>records 20 min in the best mode. Will a remote trigger be able
>to start the video? The first lap is warm up and the last lap
>is cool down so I could just start it after the first lap but
>with the 6 point harness on I can't move much so no way I
>could reach the camera.

It is possible to use a remote trigger to start recording, but where would you store it during your track session? Or are you driving street cars and you could put it in the glove compartment?

>Like I said, I use the video to train myself. Sometimes when
>you are doing 140 mph entering a turn you kind of get tunnel
>vision when you are still fairly new and think you are hitting
>your lines and apex's right but video review later shows you
>aren't.

Agreed.

>Also, it's kind of boring for friends and family to see just
>one angle the whole time so I figure I could cut back to the
>rear view shot when I pass people to show how much I pull
>away. And for bragging rights to my friends that think their
>BMW's, Porsche, Vetts, and mustangs can beat my little 4
>banger 2 liter on the track.

Ummm ok.


I cannot stress enough how bad an idea I believe this to be. Not only for the safety of your camera, but also for your personal safety. If you don't have experience rigging cameras like a movie gaffer, there is no WAY I'd recommend you do this. A GoPro Hero3 or similar would do all you need, without the limitations or personal danger to your property or your person.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Nikon_EvolutionX Registered since 21st Apr 2014Sun 27-Apr-14 01:35 AM
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#5. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

Thanks for the info. I'm not so much concerned with it coming loose but I was curious about the vibrations. But I read on another forum somebody say there was no problem with vibration with the mount. Curious though, why would the vibrations on the track harm the camera but not my every day driving with the camera in the car?

The car is my daily driver so I have space for a button to turn start the recording.

Thanks again.

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Sun 27-Apr-14 04:40 AM
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#6. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 5


Tallahassee, US
          

I am making a few assumptions here:

1. That you would tune your tires and suspension more stiffly for the track. This may not be true.

2. That you do not drive your car 140mph on the street.

3. That you do not accelerate as hard, brake as hard, or corner as hard as you do on the street.


Driving on the street, if you hit a pothole going 20mph you get vibrations. At the track, if you are hitting berms or have an off-track excursion at 100mph, it's a *bit* different in terms of the vibrations you are sending through your car.

So try this. Rig it up. Independently safety wire through the 2 shoulder strap lugs. Try it and see how you like it. To simulate this, put the camera in your hands, start a recording, and run up a few flights of stairs. The stop the recording and play it back. If that looks suitable to you, then great.

In order to get smooth video, you have to "unitize" the camera to the car. This means that you need to affix the camera to the car so that it moves in perfect unison with the car. I just don't think that a urethane mount is going to be suitable for that. I could be wrong. I've seen any number of mounts for cars with all kinds of cameras on them. I've never seen anything like what you're talking about that worked the way I thought it should. Do you have links to other people rigging DSLRs this way?


>Thanks for the info. I'm not so much concerned with it
>coming loose but I was curious about the vibrations. But I
>read on another forum somebody say there was no problem with
>vibration with the mount. Curious though, why would the
>vibrations on the track harm the camera but not my every day
>driving with the camera in the car?
>
>The car is my daily driver so I have space for a button to
>turn start the recording.
>
>Thanks again.

------
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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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luckyphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2010Mon 28-Apr-14 02:07 PM
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#7. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 6


Port Charlotte, US
          

To add a bit of detail to Peronne's comments, an object traveling at 120mph has an impact force 16-times greater than the same object traveling at 30mph so that 1-lbs camera is now a 16-lbs bowling ball. Hitting a bump at track speeds almost instantaneously changes the vector of the object and can put up to 16x the stress on the camera restraints, camera, lens mount and lens than at 30mph.

Good luck with whatever you decide and be safe.

Larry

"Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right
....and which is an illusion"

Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Uscbryan Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Jun 2010Mon 28-Apr-14 02:56 PM
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#8. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 6


Irvine, US
          

I get ya.

My car is street driven but setup for the track. So it basically beats the you-know-what out of you during daily driving. You feel everything. My coilovers are set pretty stiff along with 10k springs on front and 12k on the rear. Although I do drive more aggressively than most on the street, I don't do 140mph.

The average speed isn't 140 on the track though. That's just the straight.

I will see if I can find the link. Here is the link to the mount.

http://www.autopowerindustries.com/cameramount.asp

That shows it with one safety strap. There is a second one I can get that keeps the camera from flying around if it comes undone.

My second option would be use my iPhone as the interior camera.

Maybe I will look for some used gopro's. I just don't trust them. I had the latest and greatest gopro 3 black. All it did was lock up. The Drift Ghost S has been so much better it's just they are newer so I won't find any deals on a used one.

Thanks again for the info.





>I am making a few assumptions here:
>
>1. That you would tune your tires and suspension more stiffly
>for the track. This may not be true.
>
>2. That you do not drive your car 140mph on the street.
>
>3. That you do not accelerate as hard, brake as hard, or
>corner as hard as you do on the street.
>
>
>Driving on the street, if you hit a pothole going 20mph you
>get vibrations. At the track, if you are hitting berms or
>have an off-track excursion at 100mph, it's a *bit* different
>in terms of the vibrations you are sending through your car.
>
>So try this. Rig it up. Independently safety wire through the
>2 shoulder strap lugs. Try it and see how you like it. To
>simulate this, put the camera in your hands, start a
>recording, and run up a few flights of stairs. The stop the
>recording and play it back. If that looks suitable to you,
>then great.
>
>In order to get smooth video, you have to "unitize"
>the camera to the car. This means that you need to affix the
>camera to the car so that it moves in perfect unison with the
>car. I just don't think that a urethane mount is going to be
>suitable for that. I could be wrong. I've seen any number of
>mounts for cars with all kinds of cameras on them. I've never
>seen anything like what you're talking about that worked the
>way I thought it should. Do you have links to other people
>rigging DSLRs this way?
>
>
>>Thanks for the info. I'm not so much concerned with it
>>coming loose but I was curious about the vibrations. But
>I
>>read on another forum somebody say there was no problem
>with
>>vibration with the mount. Curious though, why would the
>>vibrations on the track harm the camera but not my every
>day
>>driving with the camera in the car?
>>
>>The car is my daily driver so I have space for a button
>to
>>turn start the recording.
>>
>>Thanks again.
>

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 28-Apr-14 09:33 PM
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#9. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon 28-Apr-14 09:42 PM by PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
          

OMG!! NO! Just... NO!

A POS stamped steel mount? For track use? Are they joking? Even looking at the photo, you can see there is practically NO contact area with the roll bar, and there are gaps where there shouldn't be any.


What is the diameter of your roll bar tubing? If you INSIST on doing this, buy these pieces:

1a. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/320244-REG/Matthews_B541004_Super_Mafer_Clamp_with.html/BI/4775/KBID/5289/

Or this depending on diameter:

1b. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/161307-REG/Matthews_420110_Matthellini_Clamp_2.html/BI/4775/KBID/5289/

2. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/826668-REG/Matthews_415173_Baby_Ballhead_Adapter.html/BI/4775/KBID/5289/

3. Two of these: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/634747-REG/Matthews_6348_1_100_Safety_Cable.html/BI/4775/KBID/5289/


THAT is a mount you can make life bets with. The same gear I hang 90ft in the air over crowds and basketball players in the arenas. CNC machined from top quality gear, and I'd hang 100 pounds off of it with complete confidence.

Triangulate your safety cables at 45 degree angles if you can through the neck strap lugs and make sure they are tight. That will give the camera three contact points that can each handle the load, and will ensure that the camera stays unitized to the car. I'd also wrap the rollbar with soft rubber before mounting the clamp to be SURE there is no wiggle or rotation, and to damp down vibration.

** And I LOVE how they show this with a 50+ year old camera mounted. **

>I will see if I can find the link. Here is the link to the
>mount.
>
>http://www.autopowerindustries.com/cameramount.asp
>
>That shows it with one safety strap. There is a second one I
>can get that keeps the camera from flying around if it comes
>undone.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sat 03-May-14 06:27 AM
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#10. "RE: Video Question: in car autoracing"
In response to Reply # 9


St Petersburg, RU
          

A proper mount would cost far mor than a Gopro or other very light low mass video camera.
DSLR are not the bedt video solution for set-and-forget video applications. One issue is recording duration limits. Another is the heavy complex lenses increase camera shake. What sanctioning body are you racing under? They will have regulations on safety matters like this. When I was running SCCA 5 liter sedan (Trans-Am)in the early 70's, the tech and safety book was very detailed and specific, 500 pages. I would imagine that now it would be 5000 pages. A mount and possibke unguided missile like your link showed would not have been allowed.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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