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ajstark123 Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Jun 2007Sat 10-Aug-13 11:38 PM
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"noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"


Katonah, US
          


I would like to use my D7100 at iso 800. What are the noise characteristics at that speed?

The reason why I like to use that speed is so I can have a higher shutter speed at smaller apertures.

Al

  

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sduck409 Silver Member
11th Aug 2013
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sduck409 Silver Member Nikonian since 14th Feb 2013Sun 11-Aug-13 02:45 AM
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#1. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 0


Nashville, US
          

I suppose it depends on what you plan to do with the resulting images. Although in my experience 100-800 is fine, 1600 you start to see a bit of noise if you blow stuff up much.

There are plenty of reviews of the D7000 that show pictures taken at various iso's - google them!

  

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Toby01 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Nov 2012Sun 11-Aug-13 02:48 AM
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#2. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 0


El Sobrante, US
          

Hi, Al.

Unless you pixel peep at 100% or print huge, I don't think you will see any noise at ISO 800. I am comfortable with the noise on my D7100 up to 3200, and 6400 is OK in a pinch. At 3200 and 6400, you will probably want to use some noise reduction in pp, but you can get perfectly usable images that way. In head to head comparisons to a friend's D600, I would say his D600 was about 1 and 1/2 stops better for noise. I would strongly advise shooting RAW, for the reasons widely stated in various posts here on Nikonians. If you use Capture NX2, you can batch process your RAW files and generate jpgs that will be identical to what you would have gotten in-camera, including any noise reduction you have set up.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Sun 11-Aug-13 10:29 AM
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#3. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 0


Wethersfield, US
          

Al, since you have the D7100, why not take some pictures at ISO 800 and evaluate them yourself? None of us know what subjects you expect to shoot nor what you will be doing with the resulting images. For example, if you will be taking photos of your kid's daytime soccer game and making 5x7 prints, you are unlikely to encounter noticeable noise in the results. On the other hand, if you are taking sunrise landscape images with a wide dynamic range, pulling up the shadows in post-processing, then making wall-size prints, you may find some shadow noise that you consider objectionable. All in all, a few test shots would tell you more than anything else.

Frankly, I think people are way too hung up on noise, obsessing over amounts of noise that will be essentially invisible in the final output.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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larrycurrlymoe Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Feb 2009Sun 11-Aug-13 07:33 PM
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#4. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 0


Calgary, CA
          

Noise like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It depends upon what you set as your standard. I have taken shots like this one at 2500 ISO with a D7000 that NCC saw fit to print in one of their quarterly "leaflets".


The D7100 has even better high ISO performance in my opinion.
But as a previous responder has suggested, shoot at 800, 1600, 3200 in various conditions to determine what you find acceptable.
Turbo

larrycurrlymoe: not just a funny moniker, I can't dance either!

turbostrackandtour.blogspot.com

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Sun 11-Aug-13 10:20 PM
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#5. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 11-Aug-13 10:33 PM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

The evaluation of noise in digital photography is highly subjective.

I suggest that you take some shots of your typical subject matter at various ISO values and then print at the largest size that you normally print. Only you can determine what is objectionable.

--------------------------------------------------------

I think that noise is one of the biggest overblown issues in digital photography.

We expect to see noise free images at ridicules magnifications (100% on screen view = a 5 foot wide image) - that we are viewing from less 2 feet away - on a low resolution (about 100 ppi) display. This gives us an exaggerated impression of the amount of visible noise in an image.

Even when we make extra-large prints, 20x30 (that’s a pretty big print but still half the size of your 100% screen view) and up, we should be increasing the viewing distance. The rule of thumb is that the viewing distance should be the equal to the diagonal measurement of the image – so, a 20x30 inch print should be viewed from about 36 inches back – or put more simply, view the images from a distance at which you can see the entire image all at once.

So, if you can make a good print, without objectionable noise at 8x10 inches, you will be able print that same image at 40x60 inches as long as it is viewed at a reasonable viewing distance, it will look just as good as the smaller print. Remember, that only we photographers press our noses against the glass or study the image at 100% on-screen looking for tiny defects - the rest of the world will evaluate the image when viewed in its entirety.

I would expect that, when un-cropped (or lightly cropped) and properly exposed, the D7100 should produce excellent image quality, at any print size, up through ISO-1600. I wouldn’t expect much drop off in IQ until above ISO-3200 or if an image is cropped by more than half. More worrisome then noise at high ISO is the drop off in dynamic range that makes correct exposure more critical then when shooting at low ISO.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Mon 12-Aug-13 04:00 PM
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#6. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 5


US
          

>I think that noise is one of the biggest overblown issues in
>digital photography.
>
>We expect to see noise free images at ridicules magnifications
>(100% on screen view = a 5 foot wide image) - that we
>are viewing from less 2 feet away - on a low resolution (about
>100 ppi) display. This gives us an exaggerated impression of
>the amount of visible noise in an image.
>
>Even when we make extra-large prints, 20x30 (that’s a pretty
>big print but still half the size of your 100% screen
>view
) and up, we should be increasing the viewing
>distance.


I totally agree. Here is a link from one of my most popular images, shot on a D200: http://billkeane.zenfolio.com/p686788665/h28301e41

In portions of the darker sky, it is quite "noisy"... Printed at 20x30 and viewed at any distance, no one ever notices. I know it's there, but no one else does...

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Mon 12-Aug-13 04:46 PM
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#7. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 6


Tacoma, US
          

At ISO 800, noise from the D7100 is a non-issue. I feel comfortable shooting this camera up to ISO3200 and will push it past that when need to be get the shot that I would otherwise miss. If it's a good capture, you can deal deal with High ISO noise in post.

What is a more relevant issue at higher ISO's is the loss of dynamic range. However, the DR of the D7100 is so broad at ISO100, that the losses at higher ISOs are still an improvement over an older camera at lower ISO.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 12-Aug-13 07:24 PM
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#8. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 7


Tallahassee, US
          

>At ISO 800, noise from the D7100 is a non-issue.

And this is an excellent example of how subjective things can be. For one user it's a non-issue. For me, it's a significant issue in every camera I own, including my FX bodies.

>I feel
>comfortable shooting this camera up to ISO3200

And I likely wouldn't want to shoot it past ISO 800-1200

>and will push
>it past that when need to be get the shot that I would
>otherwise miss. If it's a good capture, you can deal deal with
>High ISO noise in post.

Maybe. But "dealing with it in post" means loss of detail, loss of color fidelity, and other issues. For some things, it doesn't matter a lot. For others, it's a significant issue.

>What is a more relevant issue at higher ISO's is the loss of
>dynamic range. However, the DR of the D7100 is so broad at
>ISO100, that the losses at higher ISOs are still an
>improvement over an older camera at lower ISO.

Agree with this.

------
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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Mon 12-Aug-13 08:02 PM
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#9. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 8


Tacoma, US
          

Depending on the image, dealing with it in post , when done properly, isn't that big of a deal. I would not expect good results at Hi-ISO 2, but at 3200 it's doable and at 800 it's hardly necessary.

Or maybe I just got a particularly good D7100.

When I get back to my computer, I'' post some recent shots.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 12-Aug-13 08:13 PM
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#10. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 9


Tallahassee, US
          

>Depending on the image, dealing with it in post , when done
>properly, isn't that big of a deal. I would not expect good
>results at Hi-ISO 2, but at 3200 it's doable and at 800 it's
>hardly necessary.

Again. Subjective.

>Or maybe I just got a particularly good D7100.

More likely you just aren't as picky as I am.

>When I get back to my computer, I'' post some recent shots.

If you like, but they won't change my mind. I doubt ISO 800 on your D7100 looks anything like as good as ISO 800 on my D3s or D800. And I don't bother shooting above ISO 800 on the D800.

------
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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Tue 13-Aug-13 02:35 AM
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#15. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 10
Tue 13-Aug-13 03:04 AM by mklass

Tacoma, US
          

>More likely you just aren't as picky as I am.
>
Undoubtedly not. And the OP may not be worried about selling wall-size prints, either.

>>When I get back to my computer, I'' post some recent
>shots.
>
>If you like, but they won't change my mind. I doubt ISO 800
>on your D7100 looks anything like as good as ISO 800 on my D3s
>or D800. And I don't bother shooting above ISO 800 on the
>D800.

I would never think I could change your mind, but others might like to seem them and draw their own conclusions.

The high ISO capabilities of the current crop of cameras a certainly better than the old one. Many wedding shooters regularly shoot at ISO 800 and seem to have no trouble selling large prints. However, to expect the $1100 camera to compare to the $5000 camera would be absurd.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 12-Aug-13 08:34 PM
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#11. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon 12-Aug-13 08:35 PM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

“And this is an excellent example of how subjective things can be.”

Also, that subjective evaluation can vary depending on subject matter.

Bird feather detail for example does not hold up well to noise. From my limited experience - I think sports shooters run into noise issues at lower values than many others do the poor quality of light in the venues.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 12-Aug-13 11:26 PM
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#12. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 11


Tallahassee, US
          

>“And this is an excellent example of how subjective things
>can be.”

>
>Also, that subjective evaluation can vary depending on subject
>matter.
>
>Bird feather detail for example does not hold up well to
>noise. From my limited experience - I think sports shooters
>run into noise issues at lower values than many others do the
>poor quality of light in the venues.
>

Precisely. Even at the division 1 college level I am pushing ISO 3200 just to get f2.8/ 1/500 at basketball and indoor tennis. It's horrible. And because we normally have to crop, noise is even more of a killer. The D3s does a nice job as does th D600.

------
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RLDubbya Registered since 24th Dec 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 02:10 AM
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#13. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          


>
>Also, that subjective evaluation can vary depending on subject
>matter.
>
>Bird feather detail for example does not hold up well to
>noise. From my limited experience - I think sports shooters
>run into noise issues at lower values than many others do the
>poor quality of light in the venues.
>

LOL. So apropos. The other day I took some shots of a peregrine falcon with my D7000 at ISO 1250, nesting on a concrete bridge piling. Every photo is a reject; way too much noise after cropping. Crank up the noise reduction, and all feather detail disappears.

(Now, maybe if I had 1000mm/5.6 glass, it would have worked...but I didn't. Couldn't get any closer, either. My 320lb butt rapelling off the side off an 8-lane turnpike bridge to "get the shot" is not going to happen.)

For other subjects, ISO 1250 is just fine, and the noise is easily handled in post processing. I've shot entire indoor events at ISO 3200 and gotten acceptable results printing to 8x10.

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 02:16 AM
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#14. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 13


Tallahassee, US
          

This is another crucial factor. I sell everything up to 20x30. And when I submit I don't know if my photo will end up in a sidebar in a magazine, or hanging on a 30ft banner in the gym. You have to assume worst case, and simply shoot the best quality you can. But sometimes, the best you can, is just not good enough.


>For other subjects, ISO 1250 is just fine, and the noise is
>easily handled in post processing. I've shot entire indoor
>events at ISO 3200 and gotten acceptable results printing to
>8x10.

------
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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 02:53 AM
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#16. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 14
Tue 13-Aug-13 03:44 AM by Vlad_IT

New Tampa, US
          

Just my 2c. I used only D7000 and not D7100 in DX format, but latter is better at higher ISO (at least what I hear).

it is true that noise issue is very subjective. I do not think anyone will do a portrait at ISO 12,800, but anything below 1600 is quite usable for paid work.
Before i'll start with some samples at ISO 3200 (D7000)I want to show samples from less capable cameras at ISO 1600:

1. 9 year old D70 at ISO 1600:



2. 2 year old D5100 at ISO 1600:



3. Now on to D7000. This is a snapshot of my daughter enjoying some candy and movie. After PP it's sharp enough to my taste:



4. A snapshot on a subway. ISO 3200. the guy cut out pages in the actual book to protect/hide his device. after removing noise in PP and some sharpening I can still read some of the words on the Nook and in the book itself. No cropping is done just to show you the original framing:




5. Now let's step up into ISO 6400 territory. this one quite a crop and it still good example that ISO 6400 on D7000 can be used quite successfully:



6. ISO 10,000 (in Auto ISO mode). Maybe not professional work, but quite a value for the family portfolio:



7. And my favorite example, which I shared many times and the only image I have at the highest ISO for D7000 - ISO 25,600.




Best regards,
Vlad

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 03:36 AM
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#17. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 16


Tallahassee, US
          

But these high ISO examples are not realistic at all.

The photo of your daughter with headphones is taken at F9! There was a TON of light available to use.

The subway example is closest to a realistic example with a 1/60 shutter and F4. But even here, the subject is lit and you are in close quarters. Light is above and being bounced from nearly 360 degrees around the subject. The subject's head is less than 3ft from a light source.

The others are using flash and F8 - F9! Of COURSE the ISO performance is going to be acceptable if you can shoot at those apertures.

I want to see these ISO 3200 where you are at F1.8 or F2.0 and struggling to get a decent shutter speed and with only ambient to work with. That is where the true measure of the cameras ISO performance comes in.

Trying to shoot your kid in a school play, when you're 100ft back, the auditorium is pitch black except for the stage lights, and you need ISO 3200 or 6400 just to get a 1/60th shutter speed.

Or your kid is on a soccer field at night. Or in a baseball or softball game under sodium lights, and you need ISO 6400 to get 1/30 of a second, so you have to shoot half a stop to two stops under. How's the camera performing then? I know what it looks like under those conditions. I've shot it.

I shot a college soccer tournament where I needed ISO 12,800 just to get 1/400 at F2.8. I shot it on the D3s and it still looked very rough, and I had to try to clean it up enough to sell 8x12s. A D7100 or D7000 would not have produced anything that could be used outside of a thumbnail.

------
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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 03:49 AM
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#18. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 17
Tue 13-Aug-13 04:20 AM by Vlad_IT

New Tampa, US
          

Perrone,

Exposure to the right is the key to use high ISO successfully. you are attacking me while confusing ISO performance of D7000 with pushing technical boundaries of your D3s due to total lack of light.

----------------------------------------

You will get much better results on ISO 6400 ETTR, than at ISO 1600 underexposed and thus having to deal with heavy noise reduction.

As per your lighting condition "I needed ISO 12,800 just to get 1/400 at F2.8" there is not much you can do to ETTR as you have no light.

As per OP question - how good D7100 at ISO 800 - my short answer to him - it's just perfect!


just searched through LR to find another example for you:
ISO 3200, f/2.8. but again i'm not limited to your lighting condition at ISO 12,800, F/2.8 and 1/400s



Here is another example at ISO 3200, f 2.8 and 1/320s:



The funny part I can read on the lady's watch it was 9:30PM


Best regards,
Vlad


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 04:17 AM
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#19. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 18


Tallahassee, US
          

Please do not misunderstand,

I am making no attempt at attacking you. I am simply trying to impress my point that in a realistic scenario, one would hardly choose to shoot at ISO 3200 or 6400 at F9 when there is light available to shoot at ISO 400. Such is the case with what you offered. I simply do not feel that is representative of the question asked.

The orchestra pit example you've offered here is excellent and representative of the camera.

Your comment about ETTR is well taken, but is only possible when one has an abundance of light, or can sacrifice shutter speed or aperture (DOF) to get the shot.

The examples I spoke of are representative of what happens when you have a subject that you can get correct metering on, but the overall scene is quite dark or black. In my many years of photography, that has most certainly been the most common scenario where I have needed high ISO. A singer or performer on stage. A sports participant on a dark field, and existing light portrait under moonlight, etc.

I do apologize if it seemed as though I was attacking you personally. That was not my intent at all.

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 04:26 AM
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#20. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 19


New Tampa, US
          


>I do apologize if it seemed as though I was attacking you
>personally. That was not my intent at all.
>

Perrone,
no offence is taken. we were just talking about two different things.

I just updated my previous post with another example of ISO high performance capability of DX cameras and even tight crop on the watch (due to reflection of the mother of pearl dial and golden hands I had to reduce exposure to show the hands, but the information is there, at least I can see in in LR on the RAW file.

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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golfercat Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Sep 2012Tue 13-Aug-13 04:28 AM
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#21. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 16


Menifee, US
          

Vlad,

Personally, I feel that the issue of digital noise is way overblown by pixel peepers and the great enlargers. I switched from dx to fx for low light photography...a D700 to be exact. I have been quite satIIsfied with the D700. You simply cannot beat larger photon recptors. I looked at your shots in this post, and I would be more concerned about focus than noise. Take my 2 cents for what it is worth as I neither sell my photos nor do I blow them up to billboard size.

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 04:39 AM
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"RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
Tue 13-Aug-13 11:11 AM by Vlad_IT

New Tampa, US
          

Lyle,

I'm actually not concerned with either noise or focus. And after much consideration I've decided to stay with D7000 and D400 (soon) configuration.

I indeed had an AF issue addressed by Nikon during at the end of my first year of having D7000. All pictures but orchestra were taken before Nikon calibrated the AF system. But most of the time it's a motion blur due to operator (me) error or noise reduction in PP


Best regards,
Vlad

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 04:39 AM
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#23. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 21
Tue 13-Aug-13 11:28 AM by Vlad_IT

New Tampa, US
          

Perrone,

Correct me if i'm wrong but having "extra" light have nothing to do with noise produced by a sensor at higher ISO - the image would be over-exposed and not usable. that's why I had to use F/9 and high shutter speed to cut "excessive" light reaching the sensor. when I use higher ISO, I try to ever-expose +1 stop, if I know the whites don't contain critical to my image information. like example with the cat above. His white fur is over-exposed to recover any details, but the overall image is acceptable to me for taken in the dark, with 18-200 consumer lens and D5100 camera.

It's a totally another story when I cannot use ETTR technique due to whites need to be exposed correctly, than the dark areas are definitely have some heavy noise to deal with. I think in 5 years, with next generation of sensors from Nikon you'll be able to deal with indoor sport lighting limitations quite successfully.
,
Best regards,
Vlad

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 04:39 AM
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#24. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 21


Tallahassee, US
          

>Vlad,
>
>... I looked at your shots in this
>post, and I would be more concerned about focus than noise.


This is part and parcel of the problem. The shots were likely in focus. But the noise signature obscures fine edges and makes it seem like the subjects are slightly out of focus. High ISO also robs contrast and dynamic range.

When we add the required smoothing in post, it further blurs fine edges and makes the images seem like focus was missed. This is the bane of indoor sports photography. And it's why all the big boys strobe indoors. This is simply not possible in some instances and we battle the "is the focus out" questions all the time.

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 04:44 AM
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#25. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 24


New Tampa, US
          


>This is part and parcel of the problem. The shots were likely
>in focus. But the noise signature obscures fine edges and
>makes it seem like the subjects are slightly out of focus.
>High ISO also robs contrast and dynamic range.
>
>When we add the required smoothing in post, it further blurs
>fine edges and makes the images seem like focus was missed.
>This is the bane of indoor sports photography. And it's why
>all the big boys strobe indoors. This is simply not possible
>in some instances and we battle the "is the focus
>out" questions all the time.
>


It's very true. most of the images at 3200 and above require some heavy PP noise reduction.

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Tue 13-Aug-13 07:24 PM
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#26. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 24
Tue 13-Aug-13 07:25 PM by billD80

US
          

>When we add the required smoothing in post, it further blurs
>fine edges and makes the images seem like focus was missed.
>This is the bane of indoor sports photography. And it's why
>all the big boys strobe indoors. This is simply not possible
>in some instances and we battle the "is the focus
>out" questions all the time.
>

Hi Perrone, love your work!

I come to the noise issue from the days of exclusively using K25/Velvia50 because I hated grain -- and my D200 on up blows the doors off in this area. Skies are just BLUE... and people have been spoiled by this. Classic images loaded with grain might not pass muster today (only because of "noise", not lack of real quality).

I shoot for the passion, not as a profession, but my sales now pay for my cameras and lenses (I ONLY sell 20x30 on aluminum, rarely anything smaller). So the noise factor is still important.

A few points (just from shooting plays, concerts and dance competitions), the quality of indoor/artificial lighting is incredibly variable, and most people don't notice in real life because the brain/eyes compensate.

On the other hand, 100% viewing on monitors may be misleading some people to think an image has unacceptable noise, when it could easily stand huge enlargement. Honestly, I think for most people, even pros who's work will mainly be used in the paper, the issue isn't noise, it's quality of subject and capture... (I know a guy who consistently uses a D200 at ISO1600 for images regularly put in various large newspapers. He doesn't even use full size/quality JPEGS!)

Anyway, on my D7100, I've shot some events at ISO3200 at f/2.8, and while the results from one venue might be great, the results from another locale are not nearly as acceptable (dark backgrounds, and uneven lighting seem to really emphasize whatever noise might be present).

If High ISO tipped the balance for me, I'd have gone with a D600 and yearned for a D800. But just being a passionate hobbyist, who still wants to balance best quality and big $$, I've found I can steer my way to subjects that will be shot at ISO800 and lower, without having to earn a living at ISO1600 and up.

I'll shoot anything, and enjoy it, but I hate artificial lighting!

Again, nice work.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 13-Aug-13 08:39 PM
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#27. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 26
Tue 13-Aug-13 08:39 PM by PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
          

>Hi Perrone, love your work!

Thank you, that's very kind.

>I come to the noise issue from the days of exclusively using
>K25/Velvia50 because I hated grain -- and my D200 on up blows
>the doors off in this area. Skies are just BLUE... and people
>have been spoiled by this. Classic images loaded with grain
>might not pass muster today (only because of
>"noise", not lack of real quality).

Yep, I spent much time on PanX and similar for lack of grain to when possible. I hated it 25 years ago, and I still don't like it.

>I shoot for the passion, not as a profession, but my sales now
>pay for my cameras and lenses (I ONLY sell 20x30 on aluminum,
>rarely anything smaller). So the noise factor is still
>important.

Maybe one day I'll be able to make a statement like this. I don't even print 20x30 aluminum for my house! I can't afford it!

>I know a guy who consistently uses a D200 at
>ISO1600 for images regularly put in various large newspapers.
>He doesn't even use full size/quality JPEGS!)

I think we all know people like this. But man, that D200 is a noisy beast at ISO 1600! I don't even like taking mine above base ISO!

>Anyway, on my D7100, I've shot some events at ISO3200 at
>f/2.8, and while the results from one venue might be great,
>the results from another locale are not nearly as acceptable
>(dark backgrounds, and uneven lighting seem to really
>emphasize whatever noise might be present).

Yes, If the lighting levels are low, but broad it's not quite so bad. It's when you have a subject against a dark or black background that REALLY tends to show up the noise. I tend to crush the blacks quite a lot in these instances just to minimize the issue.

>If High ISO tipped the balance for me, I'd have gone with a
>D600 and yearned for a D800. But just being a passionate
>hobbyist, who still wants to balance best quality and big $$,
>I've found I can steer my way to subjects that will be shot at
>ISO800 and lower, without having to earn a living at ISO1600
>and up.

Note that the ISO performance on the D600 is well superior to that of the D800. Just saying. I wish I could pick and choose my assignments, but I cannot. So I need gear that "get's it done" no matter what my chosen venue might be for the day.

The new volleyball posters got release today at my school. Three game action images appear on the poster. All mine. ISO 3200 / F2.8/ 1/500th. I'm hoping I don't want into the gym in 2 weeks to find any of my "less good" images hanging on the wall or across the gym. The side banners are 20ft tall, and the ones that go across the gym are over 30ft long.



Here's the poster:


>I'll shoot anything, and enjoy it, but I hate artificial
>lighting!

Welcome to my world.

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Tue 13-Aug-13 10:43 PM
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#28. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 27


US
          

>Welcome to my world.

Do you mind sharing how you usually set your WB? Assuming Custom, what do you typically use as the reference target?

BTW, I have found that 20x30, with a hanger, on aluminum is much cheaper than 20x30 dry mounted, matted and framed... Though the unmounted 20x30 on paper is cheapest.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Wed 14-Aug-13 01:16 AM
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#29. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 28


New Tampa, US
          

Guys,

unrelated question. I'v read that the D700 still beats D800 and D600 in high ISO test. is this true?

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Wed 14-Aug-13 02:09 AM
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#31. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 29
Wed 14-Aug-13 02:09 AM by PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
          

Here is the comparison from DxO Labs...


http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/834%7C0/(brand)/Nikon/(appareil2)/792%7C0/(brand2)/Nikon/(appareil3)/441%7C0/(brand3)/Nikon

-P

>Guys,
>
>unrelated question. I'v read that the D700 still beats D800
>and D600 in high ISO test. is this true?
>
>Best regards,
>Vlad

------
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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Wed 14-Aug-13 02:06 AM
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#30. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 28


Tallahassee, US
          

>Do you mind sharing how you usually set your WB? Assuming
>Custom, what do you typically use as the reference target?

Exposdisc with a shutter speed of 1/30. Gets me close enough for lights that cycle if I have to submit on deadline. I do a proper white balance later, when I have time. In Volleyball, there is a gray panel on the ball and that usually allows me to get close enough. Sometimes I use the tape on the top of the net as reference and tweak from there.

>BTW, I have found that 20x30, with a hanger, on aluminum is
>much cheaper than 20x30 dry mounted, matted and framed...
> Though the unmounted 20x30 on paper is cheapest.

I don't do matted prints. Not for photography. I do gatorboard backing or aluminum.

-P

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 13-Aug-13 04:37 AM
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#22. "RE: noise characteristics at 800 iso for the D7100"
In response to Reply # 0


St Petersburg, RU
          

There is not enough information to say. How is the image displayed, of what subject, how much DR do you need to preserve, how far from the display are the viewers and the size of the image, what temperature is the light....etc?
All these factors and more are needed to determine whether 800 ISO is good enough or more conservative than needed.
If you are printing or pixel peeping are two radically different noise situations. If you are seeing excess noise at 100%, that is normal and in no way indicates the level of noise perceived by the regular viewer of regular sizes at regular distances.
I do not see much difference between shots from the D800 or D7000 at 100 ISO, both are excellent and noise is not an issue. At 800, there are too many variables to make a definitive conclusion. Some of my most requested images are high ISO, up to 25k but they are subjects that are displayed small, 8x10 or smaller, and where limited DR actually adds to the artistic merit of the image for non-photographers. Other shots have been discarded due to excess degradation at 800 ISO with both cameras due to the intended viewing size and distance.
The D7100 produces images that can be downsized to moderate size to pick more noise averaging cancellation so a lot depends on size.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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