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Subject: "D7100 versus D7000 Purchase" Previous topic | Next topic
Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Sun 09-Jun-13 06:13 AM
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"D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
Sun 09-Jun-13 10:45 AM by Mycenius

Auckland, NZ
          

Hi All,

I currently have a D90 and am toying with a possible upgrade to a (D7100 or D7000). Given the D7000 body cost is now quite reduced with the 7100's release (here in NZ it's about 60%-70% of the 7100's cost depending on the retailer), and that I am not overly hung-up about the 16MP versus 24MP thing, I though I would ask:

Are there any compelling reasons to go with a 7100 regardless of cost, over the 7000?

Appreciate & Thoughts & insights...

TIA,

John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 105mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8

  

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blw Moderator
09th Jun 2013
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ardoluc
10th Jun 2013
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Mycenius Silver Member
12th Jun 2013
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13th Jun 2013
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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Sun 09-Jun-13 12:20 PM
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#1. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

The D7100 has no antialiasing filter, so pixel-for-pixel it produces significantly greater detail.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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ardoluc Registered since 16th Feb 2013Mon 10-Jun-13 01:41 AM
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#9. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 1


saint-jean-sur-richelieu, CA
          

Hi Blw
Sorry but its not what dpreview.com commented on their review of the D7100
Here is their comment in relation to the filter:
" the filter removal quality increase is minimal and required top-shelf prime lenses"
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d7100/24
I strongly recommand most people interested in the D7100 read their review.
Have a nice day
Luc

  

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Wed 12-Jun-13 08:36 PM
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#29. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 9
Wed 12-Jun-13 08:37 PM by Mycenius

Auckland, NZ
          

>Hi Blw
>Sorry but its not what dpreview.com commented on their review
>of the D7100
>Here is their comment in relation to the filter:
>" the filter removal quality increase is minimal and
>required top-shelf prime lenses"
>http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d7100/24
> I strongly recommand most people interested in the D7100 read
>their review.
>Have a nice day
>Luc
>

Hi Luc - I missed your resposne earleir in the week. Yes I have certainly read the DPReview review (I'm sure Brian has too), and had noted that comment. While important the general feedback however from DPReview I think is it's a truly neutral change - the best results are with high-end primes but I take that to read that the results are still good/very-good otherwise, and the fact there is little or no noticeable moiré despite no OLPF more than offsets that small 'weakness'...

I'm certainly believer that less processing is better and removing the OLPF step and maintaining pic quality for me is a plus.



John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 11-16mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8 | 105mm f/2.8 Micro

  

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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Thu 13-Jun-13 05:00 PM
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#30. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 29


HIXSON, US
          

John,

I missed Luc's link as well.

Overall, I would be hard pressed to read that review & not find a favorable view of the D7100 over the D7000. My one personal negative is that the diopter adjustment has less range.

Plus, I'm not sure how they did the comparison of the anti-aliasing vs non anti-aliasing filter at the D7100's resolution. Perhaps they could have made a reduction in the D7100 mp to make a comparison. We don't really know what the impact of adding that filter to the D7100 would be. But in the end we are looking for the advantage of the D7100 over the D7000 as they are. They found that was only true with certain unspecified higher grade lenses. Don't think they mentioned any cases where it was worse.

There have been some very sophisticated tests between the D800 & the D800e which found little if any difference. To my eye, I could see no beneficial difference.

Charlie

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Fri 14-Jun-13 08:09 AM
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#32. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 30


Auckland, NZ
          

>John,
>
>I missed Luc's link as well.
>
>Overall, I would be hard pressed to read that review & not
>find a favorable view of the D7100 over the D7000.

Hey Charlie - I agree, Luc's concern is fair, but as with you I don't see it as suggesting the D7100 is in any way inferior to the D7100...

>Plus, I'm not sure how they did the comparison of the
>anti-aliasing vs non anti-aliasing filter at the D7100's
>resolution. Perhaps they could have made a reduction in the
>D7100 mp to make a comparison. We don't really know what the
>impact of adding that filter to the D7100 would be.

Yep - definitely. It is an interesting question - its conceivable they did not compare directly like-for-like at all, after all how could they?

>But in the end we are looking for the advantage of the D7100
>over the D7000 as they are.

Indeed.

>They found that was only true with certain unspecified higher
>grade lenses. Don't think they mentioned any cases where it
>was worse.

Yes - that was my take - that it wasn't any 'better' except with the high-end lenses...?

>There have been some very sophisticated tests between the D800
>& the D800e which found little if any difference. To my
>eye, I could see no beneficial difference.

That's interesting and perhaps telling... That there is no perceivable difference, even when there was presumably a methodical attempt to create the optimal situation for there to be a difference... It perhaps says more about the sensor's quality being good enough to minimise any moire and therefore not require the OLPF to start with...?

John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 11-16mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8 | 105mm f/2.8 Micro

  

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luckyphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2010Sun 09-Jun-13 12:35 PM
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#2. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 0


Port Charlotte, US
          

The term "compelling" has an individual meaning to everyone. In reality, both cameras are awesome for a wide range of photography. I've owned a D7000 since it first came out. Because it's been a wonderful camera I'm not tempted to buy a D7100 right now. I also have a D600 and do find that the extra megapixels are great when cropping photos.

If you need the absolute in Nikon crop-sensor dynamic range, latest technology and the extra megapixels, the D7100 is your choice. If you're still investing in other photo equipment, the D7000 will provide excellent results and you'll have some money left for other purchases.

Larry

"Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right
....and which is an illusion"

Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin

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Omaha Registered since 07th Jan 2012Sun 09-Jun-13 02:53 PM
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#3. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 0


Omaha, US
          

In day to day use, the cameras are all but identical. Sure, being a generation newer the D7100 out-specs the D7000, but only at the margin. 99 44/100% of all photos taken with a D7100 will be indistinguishable from those taken with the D7000.

D7100 has better AF, more MP, "crop mode", no anti-alias filter and a few other tweaks. Only you can decide if those things matter in your situation...just as only you can decide if the $500-ish price difference is decisive.

Visit my Nikonians gallery
Most of my Nikon photos end up here.

  

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Puddlepyrate2013 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2013Sun 09-Jun-13 05:40 PM
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#4. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 0


Portsmouth, US
          

John, for such an upgrade only you know what your needs are. People here can only give you advise on the actual cameras they own but their decision for purchasing their cameras were based on their actual need to upgrade.
Will you be keeping your D90 as a backup or will you be selling it to finance your D7xxx purchase? Do you need 24mp or will 16mp work for you.
Do you need the 1.3 crop factor for wildlife photography? Do you need the added focus points of the D7100 or will the 39 pts of the D7000 be fine with you? Etc, these are just some of the questions only you can answer. If you see that the D7000 better suits you, then I would suggest the D7000. The money saved can be used to purchase better glass.
When I began my photo career 21+ years ago, a photographer friend gave me the best advise that I still go by. It is, invest your money in the best lens' you can afford. Camera bodies are fluid and will always change every two years or so, but pro quality lens' will last a life time. A D3200 with a pro lens will have better results than a D4 with a kit lens.

Good luck with your new camera, which ever you decide. They are both great camera's.


Bob

  

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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Sun 09-Jun-13 06:03 PM
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#5. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 0


HIXSON, US
          

John,

You have gotten some good if not compelling advice. There are a lot of other factors about where you land on the camera scale. Like age, and whether this is likely to be your last camera, etc. Are you likely to have regret because you shot a little low.

Personally I have both bodies & I use both. I have a lot of other camera gear. My current Angst is whether to 1) sell everything except the D7100 & D7000, 2) Sell everything except the D7100, and get another D7100, or 3) Sell everything except the D7100, and get a refurbished D600. -OR-- 4) Do 1) above until the D400 comes out & go with the D400 + D7100.

Having both cameras, there would be no hesitation for "me", but to get the D7100. As I posted somewhere else, I am addicted to two things; 1) Diet Coke, and 2) The D7100. The D7100 and I are attached at the hip. The only difficulty is in trying to decide which lens to put on the D7100.

Charlie

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Sun 09-Jun-13 09:25 PM
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#6. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 0


Auckland, NZ
          

Thanks for all the responses guys,

I am a bit of a techy (ex-IT Professional and like my gadgets) but I'm trying to assess the value of spending the extra money now (on the 7100) on the basis of whether it'll offer something significant (or compelling) to my photography rather than just higher specs.

Brian & Jeff - I must confess I had overlooked the removal of the anti-aliasing filter in the D7100 and this could be a key thing for me...

I've looked at the other specs and as mentioned I am not too worried about the MP count - either 16 or 24 is going to be good. So the only notable differences (spec wise) I'm considering are mainly what Bob touched on:

- Focus Points 51 v. 39 (Not sure this is too critical for me).

- Crop Factor - I had thought the 7000 & 7100 were the same - will have to revisit (This could be a benefit as when our Southern Hemisphere Spring gets here I'll be looking to get out in the bush and outdoors and do more wildlife photography & such).

- LCD Size - 7100 looks quite a bit bigger in surface area but I'm not sure it offers enough to consider as anything compelling...

- Battery Life - looks like the 7000 is better by a notable amount - but again doubt it's enough to stress over and I'll end up with 2 batteries anyway (as I never rely on just 1 for my DSLR - having learnt the hard way many years ago)...

- Anti-aliasing filter as above.

Bob - I am planning to sell my D90 (or alternately trade it in) to contribute to the cost of the 7100/7000. Usually when I change I like to make a sizable leap so I don't need to upgrade again for some time (e.g. I've had the D90 for over 4 years and still not in an urgent "I must Upgrade Now" rush or anything).

Obviously with digital cameras it's still relatively new tech at present (semi-cutting edge) so still evolving, unlike film where you could buy a camera and keep it for 20 years... So being a techy I do feel a need to periodically upgrade, just to not get too far behind 'tech wise', but it's not a compelling reason to upgrade for me in it's own right (I still need some actual benefit for my photography)...

And yeah I am very focused on getting good glass - right now I am looking at also getting a 12-24mm for wide-angle/landscape work - and that's one reason the idea of gettign a D7000 popped up - as the difference in price will provide about 75% towards the cost of a good second-hand Nikon AF-S 12-24mm f/4 DX G ED.

Appreciate all the thoughts and comments,

John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 105mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Sun 09-Jun-13 09:54 PM
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#7. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 6


Richmond, US
          

Focus points: check which ones are cross sensors and which aren't. (I don't know.) Depending on what kind of photography you do, this might be a differentiator.

Crop factor: not really very interesting. The sensors are the same size, and you can always crop the files later. I have crop factors on my main cameras and I almost never use them. The only one that I do use is the 5x4 one, which helps composition if I know I'm making an 8x10 or 16x20.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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Omaha Registered since 07th Jan 2012Mon 10-Jun-13 01:35 AM
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#8. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 6


Omaha, US
          

It certainly seems like you have a good picture of the two cameras here. Either way, you'll be making a good decision.

The one thing that stands out to me is that the D7100 is for the most part better because it is faster: More speed for action situations. In fact, with the crop mode, the D7100 may be today's definitive camera for birding and sports.

But if you're more about landscapes, then none of that speed matters.

Personally, if I were in your shoes I'd put the new body purchase on the back burner for the time being and get the lens you are dreaming of first. Spend some time getting to know it, learn its quirks, and then evaluate if a new body might be in order.

Visit my Nikonians gallery
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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Mon 10-Jun-13 01:48 AM
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#10. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 6


HIXSON, US
          

John,

If you are a techie, then you should know that the D7100 has the Expeed 4 processor along with the other latest cameras from Nikon. I'm hoping for a D400 with a new Expeed5.

Crop factor:
1) The D90, D7000, & D7100 are all DX cameras with a 1.5x crop factor. So nothing to distinguish from there.
2) The D7100 also has an additional so-called 1.3x crop factor. When you engage this crop factor, you effectively have an overall 2x crop factor, but at a reduced mp close to what the D7000 is. In a way, this isn't the greatest feature in the world. You could get to the same place by just cropping in post processing. The thing I thought would be good would be the viewfinder being filled for all the image included in the cropped area. NOT so, it just shows a line around the cropped area. This has caused me problems. The two photo advantages are smaller file size & faster frame rate. If smaller file size is your goal, just get the D7000. I think there is also some advantage to video, but I hardly ever do video. To me at least, in the limited time that I have used it, the video is of far higher quality.

Still, I am thrilled I have the D7100.

Charlie

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Mon 10-Jun-13 07:52 AM
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#13. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 10
Mon 10-Jun-13 07:52 AM by Mycenius

Auckland, NZ
          

Hi Charlie,

>If you are a techie, then you should know that the D7100 has
>the Expeed 4 processor along with the other latest cameras
>from Nikon. I'm hoping for a D400 with a new Expeed5.

I think D400 will be getting a bit excessive for my requirements!

The D7000's Expeed 2 must still be superior to the D90's cut-down version of the original Expeed (1) right? Essentially it's a similar proportional step up in power from D90 to D7000, as the D7000 to D7100?

>Crop factor...

Yep - I've kinda concluded it's not a selling point either-way for me - just a nice to have...

>Still, I am thrilled I have the D7100.

Indeed!

Cheers,

John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 105mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8

  

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Fri 14-Jun-13 08:16 AM
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#33. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 10


Auckland, NZ
          

>John,
>
>...the D7100 has the Expeed 4 processor...
>I'm hoping for a D400 with a new Expeed5.

The DPReview review states Expeed 3 BTW Charlie - so I assume you've just a step ahead of yourself and you meant Expeed 4 for the proposed D400?



John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 11-16mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8 | 105mm f/2.8 Micro

  

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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Sat 15-Jun-13 03:27 AM
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#34. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 33


HIXSON, US
          

>>John,
>>
>>...the D7100 has the Expeed 4 processor...
>>I'm hoping for a D400 with a new Expeed5.
>
>The DPReview review states Expeed 3 BTW Charlie - so I assume
>you've just a step ahead of yourself and you meant Expeed 4
>for the proposed D400?
>
>

Exactly, John. I was prognosticating. Expeed3 uses some antique technology.

Charlie

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Mon 10-Jun-13 07:23 AM
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#11. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 6


St Petersburg, RU
          

John, as a landscape shooter the difference between D7100 and D7000 will be minor if printing any but really large prints. The higher resolution really comes into its own when printing large. Minute inspection will reveal greater detail in D7100 images than a D7000 but would probably not be seen with normal prints viewed at normal viewing distances.
What is more important for you would be getting a high quality tripod and optimum wide lens. There are some wide primes that are low cost and excellent if you do not mind manual focus. An example is the Samyang 14 f/2.8 for only $379 in the US. Manual focus is a breeze with a 14mm lenses.
Another advantage that the D7000 has is when shooting at low ISO, the files are cleaner and more "pushable" for shadow adjustment, than the D7100. The D7100 is very good in this item but the D7000 is among the best cameras ever built at 100 ISO.
If you are also shooting more action, or wildlife or birds in flight, it gets more one sided, the D7100 is probably the best bird-in-flight available today. D7000 AF= good, D7100 AF= Excellent.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Mon 10-Jun-13 07:44 AM
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#12. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 11
Mon 10-Jun-13 07:46 AM by Mycenius

Auckland, NZ
          

>John, as a landscape shooter the difference between D7100 and
>D7000 will be minor if printing any but really large prints.
>The higher resolution really comes into its own when printing
>large. Minute inspection will reveal greater detail in D7100
>images than a D7000 but would probably not be seen with normal
>prints viewed at normal viewing distances.
>What is more important for you would be getting a high quality
>tripod and optimum wide lens. There are some wide primes that
>are low cost and excellent if you do not mind manual focus. An
>example is the Samyang 14 f/2.8 for only $379 in the US.
>Manual focus is a breeze with a 14mm lenses.
>Another advantage that the D7000 has is when shooting at low
>ISO, the files are cleaner and more "pushable" for
>shadow adjustment, than the D7100. The D7100 is very good in
>this item but the D7000 is among the best cameras ever built
>at 100 ISO.
>If you are also shooting more action, or wildlife or birds in
>flight, it gets more one sided, the D7100 is probably the best
>bird-in-flight available today. D7000 AF= good, D7100 AF=
>Excellent.

Hi Stan,

That's great stuff - thanks... At this stage I'm really thinking the Anti-Aliasing is the biggest tech spec (of D7100) to affect me - and only from doing micro-photography maybe? The faster processor & increased focus points look good too but I don't do a lot of fast action stuff (i.e. the birds in flight you mention, and only rare sports type stuff).

I'm looking at getting a reasonable wide angle (10-24 or 12-24 or equivalent) and going with the D7000 obviously helps that as it means less spent on the body...

However I think there is definitely enough things 'for me' to warrant upgrading to either from the D90, including the increased ISO, increased focus points (even in D7000), improved view finder (100% of image), faster continuous mode (6fps), faster maximum Shutter Speed, SDXC support, improved case (environmental seal-wise), and less importantly but nice is the 1920 x 1080 resolution for the video (not that I've really used the video much on the D90 anyway - but if its there...)


John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 105mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Mon 10-Jun-13 09:36 AM
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#14. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 12


St Petersburg, RU
          

By noting your preferences in subjects, the tripod and quality of the wide or ultra wide angle lens are the important issues. A tripod sufficient for my D800 would cost about $600 more than one that would have the same visual impact on D7000 landscapes. The difference in requirement for that pixel density is pretty dramatic between the 16mpx AP-c sensor and 35mm frame. Factoring in the D7100 has a higher pixel density, it would most benefit from the same rigidity as the D800 would.
I have a D90 and like it a great deal. In fact I think it is one of the best cameras made when balancing technical performance, cost, reliability, ease of use, etc. None of the newer cameras have been as trouble free from the beginning with well sorted out firmware from the first camera sold.
In low light, the D7x00 is better, no question but the lower resolution also meant slower acceptable shutter speeds can be used which allows shooting at lower ISO which for still subject cancels the high ISO performance advantage. I shoot a D90 without issue at 1/60 with a 70-200 at 150mm regularly which I could never do with the D7000 or D800. It's high iso performance was better than the D300 or any other camera in its class when it was introduced. But time and processing technology marches on....or sprints on...
So do not expect major, visual improvements in images shot in decent conditions with any of these cameras, they are all good.
Regarding ultra-wides, I have shot a lot of them and own several. Of the DX wides I have the 10-20 Sigma and 10-24 Nikon. Quick summation: I like the Sigma, a lot of lens, good feel and rugged, good sharpness but not great for architecture since it has complex distortion(all ultra wides have distortion but not all distortion is created equal) that matters little in landscapes but hard to fix in man-made angular subject images.
The 10-24 is sharp, feels a little cheap but has been rugged, less distortion, twice the price and what distortion it has is easier to repair in post.
Both pale in distortion next to good rectilinear lenses like the 14-24 or 15mm Zeiss but at $1500 less. The Samyang is in the ballpark of those lenses in sharpness, in fact DxO racks it better than any of the Nikon wides including my 24 1.4 which cost $600 more than my D7000 plus kit lens! If you are staying with Dx there are a number of alternatives in the $500-700 range that give both zoom and sharpness (only the 14-24 2.8 really gives both) including the Tokina 11-16 2.8. but not a FX sensor coverage.
One point that I think is pretty important, Staying with the D90 for a long time caused me to learn flash as the incredibly effective tool it is. Not many people really try, yet it gives far better return on investment of time and money than any other item in the photographer's tool kit. The one print that got the most requests of any digital photo I have taken which is hanging in the living room of a serious art collector, was shot with a couple SB900s and a D90 and 18-105 kit lens. If it looks like flash(the reason cited by non-flash/strobe shooters why they do not want to learn flash) it's because it was not done right.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Mon 10-Jun-13 02:25 PM
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#15. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 14


HIXSON, US
          

Stan,

You really are a heretic, aren't you? How dare you imply that there might be good reasons not to upgrade to the latest thing out there.

Thanks for that! These two posts on here really have some great info. I almost think they should be pinned somewhere.

>>Another advantage that the D7000 has is when shooting at low ISO, the files are cleaner and more "pushable" for shadow adjustment, than the D7100. The D7100 is very good in this item but the D7000 is among the best cameras ever built at 100 ISO."<<

I probably wouldn't have described it that way, but I noticed the same thing. I also noticed something similar at high ISO. I shoot a lot of birds in low image light with brighter background light. Sometimes the image that I crop to is less than 10% of the area captured (Can't afford $17,000 lens). I don't have scientific evidence, but it appears that the D7100 is noisier & requires more careful post processing when cropping that much. Don't think that should be a problem with landscape images.

Charlie

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SupraDad Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Apr 2012Mon 10-Jun-13 05:46 PM
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#16. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 15
Mon 10-Jun-13 05:46 PM by SupraDad

MERRIMACK, US
          

Stan & Charlie - Re: "noise - this is an eye-opener for me. I have two rather different extremes for my main photographic pursuits (at the starting end of the learning curve): (1) Landscape, and (2) sports - my daughter competitively rides Morgan Horses in the show circuit.

For the latter, I've been having problems in indoor arenas - for the obvious reasons: (a) distance - I'm often too far even for my 70-200mm f/2.8 to fill the frame, (b) bad light - the arenas tend to be rather dark, and (c) speed - at the trot I need at least 1/250, and would prefer 1/500th of a second. Using my D7000 + Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8, I can get shots OK for the web @ about 1/250 to 1/320 and ISO climbing above 1600 - usually near 3200 and sometimes 6400. Lots of noise, but for just posting about her on (e.g.) Facebook it's OK. One of the problems is that I end up cropping a lot to get her mostly in the picture - and the detail seems to go (especially when bumping up the noise reduction in PP).

To that end, I was seriously thinking about going to the D7100 later this summer - saving up for it as we speak - the idea being that perhaps I'd still retain some details after the crop...

BUT having read what you two wrote, would I then be putting a dent on my landscape attempts? (I typically have the body on a tripod and keep the ISO very low - 100 almost all the time.) I've been VERY happy with the D7000 so far for this... Should I be concerned about this? Thanks!

Regards,
Alan

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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Mon 10-Jun-13 06:45 PM
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#17. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 16


HIXSON, US
          

Alan,

I'll need Stan to weigh in on this one. I'm more likely to be at ISO 1600 or 2000 before I'd be able to shoot at ISO-100. I need the high ISO, not just for the low light but to get shutter speeds between 1/1000" & 1/2000" to stop motion of birds & other animals. Plus, even though I usually am using either a 70-300 VR, or a 300 f/4 plus TC14E II, I have to crop the heck out of my photos to get the composition I'm looking for. Many times I am shooting in shade with bright highlights above the trees.

Haven't had an opportunity to shoot landscape with the D7100 yet. I had many issues with my D7000 including backfocusing and "dirty" sensors. After warranty repair & one professional cleaning my D7000 is right on. I change lenses like crazy, so dust on the sensor is to be expected, and now it isn't that difficult to blow off with bulb blower. Have some amazingly sharp images with the D7000 & 70-300 VR at 300mm. Still learning how to handhold the 300mm w/TC14EII (Heavy & no VR). But, that is also a reason for my High ISO.

Charlie

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 10-Jun-13 08:49 PM
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#19. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 17


Richmond, US
          

> even though I usually am using either a 70-300 VR, or a 300 f/4 plus TC14E II, I have to crop the heck out of my photos to get the composition I'm looking for.

My opinion is that you need to upgrade a lens, rather than a camera. Unfortunately that may be hard and/or much more expensive than a new body.

_____
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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Mon 10-Jun-13 10:40 PM
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#20. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 19


HIXSON, US
          

Brian,

I'm not the one wanting to upgrade a camera. I think I have the best available for what I want to use it for. The 300 f/4 + TC14E II is at about the weight limit that I can handle.

I was just trying to be helpful to a poster.

Charlie

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 11-Jun-13 03:19 AM
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#21. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 16


St Petersburg, RU
          

Hi Alan, you have two almost opposite needs. The first being satisfied by either the D7100 or D7000, so I would comment on the second. This has 3 real problems: low light, speed and distance.
I shot a lot in cutting competitions back in the film days, when I had Quarter Horses in competition and had the same problem if they were indoor events. There was no magic bullet except on events where flash could be used.
I do not think there will be a big enough difference in low light performance between the D7000 and D7100 to suddenly make these 3 problems disappear. A combination of smaller incremental improvements might do it. One being closer, that solved or lessens lots of problems. Is there any way to get closer by getting official status as a photographer or taking a different vantage point?
Another one is noting where in the action the light is best(one of the characteristics of dim unevenly lit arenas is variability of light) and concentrate on shooting when she is in those areas.
Selective NR with an external program such as Nik software's NR or Noise Ninja can render a 3200 shot with less perceived noise. Overall noise reduction in the camera or LR impact detail of desired elements too much.
Is there a rental shop in your area where you can rent a fast long prime? It might be expensive for one day but it sure would help. That is is you are allowed to use a tripod. A 400 2.8 is big, over 10 pounds and not hand holdable for more than a few seconds but it would solve this problem. A 300 2.8 is hand holdable but might not be long enough. A Sigma 500 4.5 is hand holdable and cheaper to rent. The less you have to crop the better you can deal with noise. If you were able to fill the frame with the subject, 3200-6400 would be very useable.
The D7100 is definitely more suited to cropping but noise and loss of detail are going to lower image quality.

For these two subjects, you are a prime candidate for Fx. The noise performance difference is not subtle comparing DX anything to Fx anything. I would set my D800 at Auto ISO limit to 6400 and shoot normally. A used D700, a D600, D800 or used D3s would solve or lessen the seriousness of the problems. The D600 and D800 would both have more cropping capability but also more need to since the field of view is wider for any any given lens you have
Landscape will also benefit from Fx, where any FX lenses you have will give a wider field of view.
I would suggest asking this question in the sport forum since the people in that forum deal with these conditions all the time.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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SupraDad Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Apr 2012Tue 11-Jun-13 11:12 AM
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#24. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 21


MERRIMACK, US
          

That is very - very! - helpful advice Stan! Re: "Is there any way to get closer by getting official status as a photographer or taking a different vantage point?" No, not really: they usually have a pro in the ring with the people (and it's not uncommon for me to purchase from them when they do a great shot).

I did have a friend suggest looking into the D600 instead - for the low-light reasons. Problem is: I have two DX lenses and only one FX (the Sigma 70-200mm).

Since I only have a couple more horse seasons left (my daughter is 17 and will be heading off to college afterwards) I think I'll look into renting an FX body and pairing it with my 70-200 (+ 1.4x tele) and see how that goes at a show. If that pans out, I'll save up for a D600 and go that route for horse shows.

Thanks so much Stan - the sharing of your knowledge has been very helpful.

Regards,
Alan

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 11-Jun-13 03:41 PM
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#25. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 24


St Petersburg, RU
          

If using a D800 or D600, the "reach" will not be as great but it still might, after considering all the interacting elements, to not use the TC unless you test it. The increase in attenuation of light means pushing the ISO and risking generating more noise than by simply cropping the image at 200mm. In either case, I think you would be better off with the great low light performance of the D600 or D800.

The metering, focus tracking and cropping option is better with the D800 but it is more expensive to rent. Both however have about the same 14 stop DR and low noise, great color and detail. It would be very hard to tell files apart from the 2 cameras.
Horse shooting is predictable, even the fast agile cutters, so focus tracking or burst is not so important as say, close in volleyball or table tennis, two very fast sports due to the confined space between action and reaction, plus intentional misdirection. 230mph stock cars are just the opposite, high velocity but very predictable lines and paths.
Tracking horses in dim light is challenged however by being large dark objects with little contrast. That means increasing the DOF by stopping down a bit and targeting something that has high contrast on edges like the rider's hat or tack in the middle of the desired DOF, that can get the head to rear legs in acceptable focus. The rider's eyes are often too small as a good target, due to the distance and heavily shadowed by the ubiquitous western hat.

What about talking to the event organizers to ask if they need a trade out for access, free licenses in exchange for close-in access? Tell the pro that you are not selling any photos, so he has no competition. I did that with a famous ballet theater here to be able to shoot dress rehearsals right from the stage. It was a win-win situation.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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SupraDad Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Apr 2012Tue 11-Jun-13 04:39 PM
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#26. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 25


MERRIMACK, US
          

Thanks again Stan - re: the TC - I would do test runs w/ and w/out it (one advantage of a horse show: I'll have plenty of time to practice before my daughter heads on the stage).

Re: the organizers - I think the pro photographers are a bit defensive about these sort of things - and I don't blame them: they invest a lot to get the job and it seems that with the advent of all of us "amateur hobbyists" showing up with more-than-decent DSLR's w/ long/fast-ish lenses - it's getting harder and harder for them to make a profit at this. As noted above: we tend to buy one or two shots from them for long-term keepsakes, I take the photos mostly for more detail, and lots of the kids in the barn (and their parents) love to see themselves - even if the shots aren't World Class.

I very much appreciate you taking the time - and I have gone over the Sports forum to see what advice has been passed around there in the past...

Regards,
Alan

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 10-Jun-13 08:46 PM
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#18. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 12


Richmond, US
          

> At this stage I'm really thinking the Anti-Aliasing is the biggest tech spec (of D7100) to affect me

It's an advantage, but it's not the end of the world. The advantage is lost as aperture stops down, and particularly once you hit diffraction territory, which I believe is around f/5.6 on this sensor/camera. Surely by f/11 the advantage of not having the AA filter is lost.

> and only from doing micro-photography maybe?

Probably not, actually. Macro work is nearly always stopped down due to DOF considerations. I often find myself shooting macro at f/16 or f/22, for example. Similar arguments apply to landscape, which is the other place where folks seem to want as much detail as possible. If you shoot wide open (or close to it) a lot, the lack of an AA filter may make a material difference.

> improved view finder (100% of image)

I must admit that I don't get the rage about this. Sure it's best to know exactly what you're shooting, but really: how often do we print the ENTIRE image and not crop it AT ALL? Especially on a 24mp file? I virtually always crop before printing, and it's not because I'm an imprecise or sloppy photographer. Much of the paper and most of the frames are not 3x2 aspect ratio, so at minimum I'm cropping just to accommodate the output medium. If your output is for the web, the 2% errors are completely immaterial. And one of the main reasons for having a 24mp file is explicitly to be able to crop.

> improved case (environmental seal-wise)

Let's be clear on this. None of the bodies are actually sealed, and that includes the D4. Some of them have more or fewer barriers to entry, but none of them are even close to sealed. For example, look at the SD or CF card doors - they're nowhere near sealed by any stretch of the imagination. Nikon claims include the world "seal" but if you send them a camera or lens with any evidence of water inside, they instantly declare it out of warranty and charge you for the repair. It's sealed until it's not, as someone put it. All of the cameras can take some water on the outside. None of them can take very much. If you need to shoot in adverse conditions, you need a good rain cover. Regardless of which body you have.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Tue 11-Jun-13 03:52 AM
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#22. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 18


Tacoma, US
          

I had a D7000 for a year and could never take to it. I got a D7100 a few month's ago and am quite happy with it.

I prefer the focus of the 7100, it faster and you get 51 focus points, not 39. It's better in low light.

I have not found anything objectionable about the ISO/Noise performance.

It will bracket more shots.

The controls, while similar, seem more refined.

I just get the feeling the D7000 was practice for the D7100.

And the 100% viewfinder coverage is handy when you are pushing the limits of you wide angle lens. That was one of the things I didn't like about the D700 either (about the only thing). If you are at the limit of "zooming with your feet", it's frustrating to have to guess if you really got everything in the frame.

My opinion is that unless you're planning on upgrading again soon, go with the D7100 and be happy for several years.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Tue 11-Jun-13 04:01 AM
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#23. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 22


Auckland, NZ
          

>My opinion is that unless you're planning on upgrading again
>soon, go with the D7100 and be happy for several years.


Hi Mick - strangely enough I've almost been settling on that view myself today as I have mulled it over - I have some gear to trade in which should cover about 33% of the cost of the D7100 (vs. 50% of the D7000) here - so I think it's worth going to the D7100 and then as you say begin happy for years and not worrying about an upgrade for 5-7 or more years...

FWIW - Both the D80 and D90 I bought about 18+ months after their respective releases, in both cases news of the new model (D90 and D7000 respectively) came out only a couple of months after I purchased each of them and as a result I still paid fairly high purchase prices only months before the new models came out - so another (non-photography specific) consideration for me actually, now I think about it, is trying to get in at the start of the product 'life-cycle' (like I did with my original D70) rather than sacrificing 18-24 months and effectively being 1-generation behind (effectively I went through 2 cameras - D80 & D90 - when I could have gone straight from my D70 to the D90 if I had planned it better)...



John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 105mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8

  

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ndtking Gold Member Nikonian since 16th Jun 2008Tue 11-Jun-13 04:56 PM
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#27. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 23


Kitchener, CA
          

John -

For me it was the improvement in bracketing over the 7000. I do a lot of HDR (church and cathedral interiors), and need the better bracketing with the 7100.

Also, I got tired of waiting for a D400...

I bought the D7100 a couple of weeks ago and am in the process of learning the controls before I go on vacation in ten days. So far I am very pleased, although I would like a little better frame rate in 14 bit RAW.

Gerry King
Ontarian Nikonian
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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Wed 12-Jun-13 08:18 PM
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#28. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 27
Wed 12-Jun-13 08:19 PM by Mycenius

Auckland, NZ
          

Thanks Gerry - always good to know what were the key influences in other's decisions - sometimes they raise items never considered, or that could lead to buyers remorse later on... Hadn't really thought about the bracketing and (a) the difference between the 2 models, and (b) will I use it enough to be significant (in the decision process)...



John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 11-16mm f/2.8 | 50mm f/1.8 | 105mm f/2.8 Micro

  

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torwood Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Dec 2010Thu 13-Jun-13 11:54 PM
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#31. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 28


Jefferson Hills, US
          

Mt two cents: I have a D7000, which I use primarily for my son's sports (football, baseball, indoor basketball). Until the D7100 came out, I was content that I had the best DX solution available. That said, if I can scrape up the money prior to next basketball season, I will be trading my D7000 for a D7100.

The D7100 is superior in every way for action. The pro AF system is much better than what is in my D7000, and will lock-on faster in low light than my camera. The higher resolution of the D7100 will make deep crops, which I use in all sports, much sharper. From what I've read/seen, the D7100 will also give me 2/3 to 1 extra stop in low light, which will be huge in basketball, and with my slower tele lenses for football in bad weather.

All of that said,...if I didn't shoot sports/action, I would not upgrade from the D7000. 16 MP is more than enough for any practical size enlargement, if you aren't deep-cropping. Smaller files also use less memory, both on your card and on your computer. And, the AF system in the D7000 is worlds better than the D90, and only lacking compared to the pro Cam 3500 system. Finally, the D7000 is excellent up to about ISO 3200, which is more than enough for nearly everything but indoor/night sports. I LOVE my D7000. It's an order of magnitude better than my old D90. But, if I can sell my D7000 for $400-500, and throw in the D90 for $150-200. the net upgrade cost of the D7100 is $400-500. That is worth it to me to get the technical improvements the D7100 offers for my subject matter.

My advice: If you don't shoot action/sports, buy the excellent D7000 and put the $450 saved toward a lens.

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Wed 19-Jun-13 07:09 AM
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#35. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 0


Auckland, NZ
          

FWIW for anyone interested I have bitten the bullet and gone with a D7100 - hope to pick it up tomorrow (both events a bit sooner than expected).

John
Kiwi Nikonian
D90 | 11-16mm f/2.8 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 50mm f/1.8 | 105mm f/2.8 Micro

  

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cwils02 Gold Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2012Thu 20-Jun-13 05:11 AM
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#36. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 35


HIXSON, US
          

>FWIW for anyone interested I have bitten the bullet and gone
>with a D7100 - hope to pick it up tomorrow (both events a bit
>sooner than expected).
>
>John

Both events?
1) Getting the D7100
2) "bitten the bullet" Be careful, those bullets are scarce and expensive.

Charlie

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Mycenius Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Feb 2006Thu 20-Jun-13 09:29 AM
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#37. "RE: D7100 versus D7000 Purchase"
In response to Reply # 36
Thu 20-Jun-13 09:33 AM by Mycenius

Auckland, NZ
          

>>FWIW for anyone interested I have bitten the bullet and
>gone
>>with a D7100 - hope to pick it up tomorrow (both events a
>bit
>>sooner than expected).
>>
>>John
>
>Both events?
>1) Getting the D7100
>2) "bitten the bullet" Be careful, those bullets
>are scarce and expensive.
>
>Charlie


Hahaha - Yep (I was wondering who the comedian was in the group) - both events (i.e. making the decision AND physically handing over the $ and getting the hardware)!

Actually had an unplanned addition to my kit while collecting my new D7100, picked up a mint/as-new second hand Nikon AF-S DX 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED that was in the camera store (only cost about 60% what the new retail $ price would be here so couldn't resist).

So new toys galore!!

John
Kiwi Nikonian
D7100 | 11-16mm f/2.8 | 17-55mm f/2.8 | 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6 | 50mm f/1.8 | 105mm f/2.8 Micro

  

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