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Subject: "D7100 vs D90" Previous topic | Next topic
vitalishe Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2012Tue 16-Apr-13 05:30 AM
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"D7100 vs D90"
Tue 16-Apr-13 05:39 AM by vitalishe

Los Alamos, US
          

I recently upgraded from D90 to D7100 and still kept D90.
Ever since I got it, I was looking for that one shot where I would be able to say that D90 wouldn't be able to do it. It would justify the expense of $1200.
Unfortunately, so far, I am not finding it and it is disappointing

The way I understood the potential advantages of D7100 over D90, they are:
- better reach capability due to higher pixel density,
- better performance at higher ISO
- Mirror lockup, which together with removed low-pass filter should lead to sharper images.

After days of bird photo-hunting my results were not as I expected.
I am using Nikkor 70-300 VR, typically at 250mm, f/8, ISO 400-800, shutter speed 1/200-1/500.

I thought my disappointment was due to the fact I was hand-holding the camera. So, I decided to make a small experiment in a more controlled environment.

I placed a little statue about 6 feet away from a sturdy tripod (Manfrotto) on which I placed in turn D7100 and D90.
I used the above mentioned lens at 195mm, f/5.3 (not optimal), ISO 800.
On D7100 I used Mirror lockup with 2 second delay triggered by a wireless remote.
On D90 I used 2 second self-timer with exposure delay mode.
Both cameras were positioned in the landscape mode with the face of the statue in the center of the frame.
Both cameras were auto-focused with the focus point at the center of the statue.
The images were cropped to about 70% by height.
Both pictures were taken in RAW and simply cropped in Lightroom 4.4 without any corrections or noise-reduction.
The small difference in the angles in the pictures is due to the battery grip I use on D90.

Based on the pictures I can see finer pixels of D7100, but at a pixel level noise of both cameras is very comparable.
Moreover, I percieve details better on the D90 image.
I wonder if this is due to autofocus issues or D7100 secretly does noise reduction that wash out the details.

Bottom line:
So far I am dissapointed. If I had to decide all over again, I would not get D7100
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/ppuser/474270/cat/500

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
Leonard62 Gold Member
16th Apr 2013
1
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
elec164 Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
6
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
vitalishe Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
9
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
wlwakefield
16th Apr 2013
2
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
vitalishe Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
7
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aolander Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
3
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
vitalishe Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
5
     Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
billD80 Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
12
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
Kidkett Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
4
Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90
vitalishe Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
8
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BrianNK
16th Apr 2013
10
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torwood Silver Member
16th Apr 2013
11
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vitalishe Silver Member
20th Apr 2013
13
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Kidkett Silver Member
21st Apr 2013
14
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dm1dave Administrator
21st Apr 2013
15
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cpopescu Silver Member
03rd Nov 2013
16
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billD80 Silver Member
03rd Nov 2013
17
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cpopescu Silver Member
03rd Nov 2013
18
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Sixmileman
07th Nov 2013
25
     Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90 - screen protector?
cpopescu Silver Member
03rd Nov 2013
19
          Reply message RE: D7100 vs D90 - screen protector?
Daveecopping Silver Member
03rd Nov 2013
20
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Brent Melton Silver Member
03rd Nov 2013
21
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mephotoman
22nd Nov 2013
28
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thelh
24th Feb 2014
29
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s2sailorlis_nikon
05th Nov 2013
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06th Nov 2013
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07th Nov 2013
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09th Nov 2013
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26th Feb 2014
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Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Tue 16-Apr-13 12:41 PM
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#1. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 0


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

Hi. Question, are the photos listed correctly in your gallery? Photo #1 with the camera listed as the D7100 is clearly much sharper than Photo #2 listed as the D90. I would try the comparison again but this time use a flat target with a lot of detail.

Len

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Tue 16-Apr-13 04:15 PM
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#6. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

>Hi. Question, are the photos listed correctly in your
>gallery? Photo #1 with the camera listed as the D7100 is
>clearly much sharper than Photo #2 listed as the D90

It appears that there is a mismatch in the labeling. If you click on Show EXIF Info (or open them in Photome) it clearly shows that the first one labeled D90 was taken with the D7100 and vice-versa.

Having said that, when comparing images from different pixel density sensors its difficult at best for there are many areas when handling the files that can affect image quality.

Pete

Pete

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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vitalishe Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2012Tue 16-Apr-13 04:26 PM
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#9. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 1


Los Alamos, US
          

Originally, when I started taking these pictures I wanted to compare the noise coming from both cameras. I was mostly interested in the background and statue was mostly for focusing. I wanted to have a 3D object, because the focus plane in not always where you wanted it to be. For a 3D object you can tell where it is.

But I can do some tests with flat images as well.

  

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wlwakefield Registered since 21st Jan 2007Tue 16-Apr-13 01:23 PM
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#2. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 16-Apr-13 01:24 PM by wlwakefield

Irving, US
          

From what I can tell, there is no comparison in image quality, especially noise, between the 7100 vs. the d90, so long as you mislabeled the photos.

If the one you labeled as the D90 is actually the D7100, then something is very wrong with it, and on the other hand you have a D90 that performs many times better than any other D90.

http://www.wlwakefield.com

  

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vitalishe Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2012Tue 16-Apr-13 04:16 PM
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#7. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 2


Los Alamos, US
          

>From what I can tell, there is no comparison in image
>quality, especially noise, between the 7100 vs. the d90, so
>long as you mislabeled the photos.
>
>If the one you labeled as the D90 is actually the D7100, then
>something is very wrong with it, and on the other hand you
>have a D90 that performs many times better than any other
>D90.

That's how I am feeling right now. I am trying to understand whether I am missing something in the setting of D7100, like fine-tuning the focus, which I have not done yet. Or I got a bad copy of D7100. In the later case I may need to collect enough evidence that it is the case.

  

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aolander Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Sep 2006Tue 16-Apr-13 01:36 PM
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#3. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 0


Nevis, US
          

You have the first image labeled as being taken with the D7100. It is much sharper than the 2nd image (D90). You could do with a little more exposure in both of them to better see things.

Alan

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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vitalishe Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2012Tue 16-Apr-13 04:12 PM
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#5. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 3


Los Alamos, US
          

>You have the first image labeled as being taken with the
>D7100. It is much sharper than the 2nd image (D90). You
>could do with a little more exposure in both of them to better
>see things.

Somehow they are mislabeled, indeed.
The system must have placed them in a different order to how I was uploading them. One way of telling which one is which, D90 sat about 1.5'' higher on the tripod because it has a battery grip. I changed the labels.

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Tue 16-Apr-13 10:19 PM
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#12. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 5


US
          

>Somehow they are mislabeled, indeed.

Yes, which then shows the D7100 image as clearly sharper than the D90.

Now, will you get jaw-dropping, quantum leaps? No.

Buy a D4, or D3s, and compare those images with a D90, and in many cases under relatively average circumstances, no one will know what image came from which camera.

The technology is that good.

Lenses matter, technique matters much, much more...

I'm finding my D7100 a significant improvement on my D7000, FOR THE THINGS I REALLY WANTED... Huge enlargement capability and AF speed. The other improvements are incremental, and in many cases, 99% of people wouldn't know the difference between a D7000 or D7100 at 12x18" (maybe even larger).

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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Kidkett Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2010Tue 16-Apr-13 02:01 PM
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#4. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 0


Campo, US
          

Hi Vitaliy,

First I am sure that you have heard that unless your camera can’t do something that you want it to, then you’re better off investing in better glass.

Second I think you could have picked a better subject to shoot. Grab your wife, son or daughter for a few minutes and shoot one of them or even your car. I looked at the two pictures a long time and I even processed them the same on both pictures as I don’t really like looking at Raw pictures. I am not sure how you got a bigger file out of the D90 that the D7100 but you did somehow.

But I disagree with you and have to say that both in RAW and Processed the D7100 came out on top. But you can look at the side by side pictures and see a small difference, although it might look like the D90 could have been focused a little better than it was. Look at the O’s on the head, the flat hand sticking out and the left foot too see the difference. Also look at the bottle cap that it is sitting on and look at the groves that are more defined in the picture with the D7100. I remember a picture PerroneFord here on the Nikonians took with a D7000 of two young sisters at school and how great a picture it took, it was stunning to say the least. Something my D80 would never haven taken.

I think you just need more time to get used to your new camera and get the setting dialed in and you will see a difference in your pictures. Enjoy your new camera and keep shooting as it takes great pictures.

Enjoy.
Bill



Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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vitalishe Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2012Tue 16-Apr-13 04:22 PM
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#8. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 4


Los Alamos, US
          

>Hi Vitaliy,
>
>First I am sure that you have heard that unless your camera
>can’t do something that you want it to, then you’re better off
>investing in better glass.
>
>Second I think you could have picked a better subject to
>shoot. Grab your wife, son or daughter for a few minutes and
>shoot one of them or even your car. I looked at the two
>pictures a long time and I even processed them the same on
>both pictures as I don’t really like looking at Raw pictures.
>I am not sure how you got a bigger file out of the D90 that
>the D7100 but you did somehow.
>
>But I disagree with you and have to say that both in RAW and
>Processed the D7100 came out on top. But you can look at the
>side by side pictures and see a small difference, although it
>might look like the D90 could have been focused a little
>better than it was. Look at the O’s on the head, the flat hand
>sticking out and the left foot too see the difference. Also
>look at the bottle cap that it is sitting on and look at the
>groves that are more defined in the picture with the D7100. I
>remember a picture PerroneFord here on the Nikonians took with
>a D7000 of two young sisters at school and how great a picture
>it took, it was stunning to say the least. Something my D80
>would never haven taken.
>
>I think you just need more time to get used to your new camera
>and get the setting dialed in and you will see a difference in
>your pictures. Enjoy your new camera and keep shooting as it
>takes great pictures.
>
>Enjoy.
>Bill
>
>
>

Bill, I will do more testing tonight or tomorrow.
This time I will use one of my prime lenses.
I wanted to see identical images and it is impossible to do with wives and kids, unless they are sleeping
So, I am going to stick to inanimate objects for testing.
Of course, for real photography I would prefer live subjects

  

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BrianNK Registered since 25th Feb 2013Tue 16-Apr-13 07:49 PM
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#10. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 16-Apr-13 07:51 PM by BrianNK

US
          

>The way I understood the potential advantages of D7100 over
>D90, they are:
>- better reach capability due to higher pixel density,
>- better performance at higher ISO
>- Mirror lockup, which together with removed low-pass filter
>should lead to sharper images.

There are other advantages of the D7100 over the D90.. such as:
Weather Sealing
More AF Points
Faster AF
etc...

>After days of bird photo-hunting my results were not as I
>expected.
>I am using Nikkor 70-300 VR, typically at 250mm, f/8, ISO
>400-800, shutter speed 1/200-1/500.
>
>I thought my disappointment was due to the fact I was
>hand-holding the camera. So, I decided to make a small
>experiment in a more controlled environment.

If you are shooting @ 250mm your shutter speed should be above ~1/400. The 'old rule of thumb' is: Min Shutter Speed (secs) = 1/Focal Length (mm). You should also factor in the 1.5x crop factor just to be safe on a DX body... (250mm x 1.5 = 1/375 min shutter speed).

The D7100 has a higher pixel density then the D90... you are going to see more noise when you pixel peep at 1:1. But your image will look/print better at a normal size.


  

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torwood Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Dec 2010Tue 16-Apr-13 08:30 PM
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#11. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 10


Jefferson Hills, US
          

I don't yet have the D7100, but I have a D90 and a D7000. I can attest that the D7000 is an order of magnitude better than the D90 in every measurable way: High ISO, Sharpness, Dynamic Range, AF tracking, color accuracy, etc..

I would find it almost impossible to believe that any D7100 properly handled could not outshoot a D90, unless your D7100 is faulty.

That said, my D7000 had a learning curve, as it exposed focus technique issues that I could not see in my D90 photos. I would redo the test with careful focus, good light (outdoors), an appropriate target (something with more contrast and fine detail), and a more than sufficient shutter speed (1/1000 or more) to stop camera shake.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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vitalishe Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2012Sat 20-Apr-13 04:21 PM
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#13. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 11


Los Alamos, US
          

I went to shoot bees with both cameras (D90 and D7100).
I was glad to see a significantly better performance of D7100.
Here the advantages of D7100 in cropping potential are really coming through.

Here is a sample image:
http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/419676/ppuser/474270

  

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Kidkett Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Apr 2010Sun 21-Apr-13 02:24 AM
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#14. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 13


Campo, US
          

Great Vitaliy,

I knew you would find out what a great camera it is. It will even get better the more you use it and find the best setting to use. Have a great time with it.

Happy Shooting,
Bill


Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Sun 21-Apr-13 02:53 AM
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#15. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 13


Lowden, US
          

Nice work!

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com | My Crated Gallery
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Showcase your best work in any of our 7 Monthly Nikonians Photo contests.


Wildlife | Landscape | Macro | Sports | Travel | Online Assignments | Best of Nikonians 2014

  

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cpopescu Silver Member Nikonian since 14th Apr 2011Sun 03-Nov-13 09:41 AM
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#16. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 13


Paris, RO
          

I am seriously considering buying a D7100 to replace my D90.
My D90 has 15k shots and I can sell it for about 400 USD.
The D7100 is currently in a promotiion (1176 USD, which is cheap as in my neck of the woods it's regulary selled 1450 USD).

I've read Thom Hogan's review and I don't care very much about the limited buffer size (I rarely shoot continuously).

My questions are:

1. Is the dynamic range of the sensor better than the D90's?
2. In terms of ergonomy is better than the D90? (I realize I have to buy Darrel's book to fully take advantage of this camera).

THanks,

Catalin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sun 03-Nov-13 11:32 AM
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#17. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 16


US
          

>1. Is the dynamic range of the sensor better than the D90's?

Yes, but will you notice? The High ISO is more significantly better, and that will be noticeable.


>2. In terms of ergonomy is better than the D90?

I think ergonomics are a very personal thing, so if you can hold the D7100, you should. I've personally found it a super easy body to grip, and while I have the battery grip, I don't need it to increase hand-holding ability.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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cpopescu Silver Member Nikonian since 14th Apr 2011Sun 03-Nov-13 11:47 AM
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#18. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 17


Paris, RO
          

Thanks for the answers.

Yes, I would be more interested in the low-noise at high-ISO than the dynamic range. So, it's good to know that pics are usable at a higher ISO.

And in terms of accesibility of controls (i.e. on buttons, not in the menu) are there any things that one can find in the D90 and not in the D7100? (eg I like very much to have a button set to AF-ON).

Catalin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Sixmileman Registered since 06th Mar 2013Thu 07-Nov-13 03:59 PM
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#25. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 16


US
          

I have both a D90 and a D7100. You'll love the D7100 although, as others have said, the higher pixel count is a doubled-edged sword. While it allows for stunning images, it can show flaws (in technique, principally) that are not as noticeable at 12MP. Ergonomics are great as is IQ, dynamic range, faster AF, more focus points, and the ability of the 1.3x crop factor to provide added reach for certain subjects such as wildlife. Buy and enjoy.

  

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cpopescu Silver Member Nikonian since 14th Apr 2011Sun 03-Nov-13 07:21 PM
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#19. "RE: D7100 vs D90 - screen protector?"
In response to Reply # 13


Paris, RO
          

How do you owners of D7100 deal with the lack of a creen protector?
Do you use anything at all and if so, what exactly?

I usually take good care of my stuff, but I feel somehow naked if upgrading from the D90 with protection to the 7100 without protection.

Thanks

Catalin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Daveecopping Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Jan 2011Sun 03-Nov-13 07:43 PM
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#20. "RE: D7100 vs D90 - screen protector?"
In response to Reply # 19


Polegate, GB
          

I use GGS III screen protectors on my D7100, D700 and V1. You will find it/them on Amazon. It's also known as Gorilla Glass and very, very tough.

Enjoy your D7100.

Cheers,

Dave

  

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Brent Melton Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Apr 2012Sun 03-Nov-13 08:11 PM
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#21. "RE: D7100 vs D90 - screen protector?"
In response to Reply # 19


Denton, US
          

I do not use any screen protector. I clean it with microfiber cloth and have not noticed any scratches. I use mine quite often, but like you I take good care of my equipment. I was a little concerned when I first got the D7100, but now I never really think about when I am shooting.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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mephotoman Registered since 01st Nov 2013Fri 22-Nov-13 10:45 PM
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#28. "RE: D7100 vs D90 - screen protector?"
In response to Reply # 19


US
          

I just got my D7100 and immediately put a screen protector on it. I used a generic one, same one as I put on my phone.

  

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thelh Registered since 09th Feb 2014Mon 24-Feb-14 04:54 AM
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#29. "RE: D7100 vs D90 - screen protector?"
In response to Reply # 19


San Diego, US
          

I have been happy without a protector on my D90 for many years, and so far happy with my new D7100. Easy to clean with microfiber cloth and no scratches so far, so must be sturdy stuff.

  

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s2sailorlis_nikon Registered since 19th Jun 2012Tue 05-Nov-13 07:29 PM
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#22. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

+1 on your comment re the D7000 learning curve. I have gone down that path since getting my D7K about a month ago. It is a complex machine, and you need practice - especially related to focusing technique to realize its potential.

Also, I know the 70-300 is a very good lens (i had one) - but I suspect that as you go up the mpix lane "lesser glass" starts to show weaknesses. I went from the 70-300 to a 70-200 2.8 VR1 - i got it used but the image quality much better with the D7K vs the 70-300 on the D7K - at least that has been my experience after playing around with things the past 2-3 weeks...

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Daveecopping Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Jan 2011Wed 06-Nov-13 08:39 AM
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#23. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 22


Polegate, GB
          

>Also, I know the 70-300 is a very good lens (i had one) - but
>I suspect that as you go up the mpix lane "lesser
>glass" starts to show weaknesses.

I very nearly "retired" a lens because it didn't seem to perform as well on a D7100 as it did on a D5100. It wasn't the lens though, it was the monitor. When I upgraded the monitor to a HP Pavilion 23xi, the problem was solved.

Very best wishes to all on here,

Dave

  

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goodguy Registered since 01st Sep 2013Thu 07-Nov-13 02:42 AM
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#24. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 23


CA
          

The D7100 with its removed AA filter has the potential to create jaw dropping pictures but in many cases the D7100 is being limited by the lenses you mount on it.

The 70-300mm VR is one of my favorite lenses, I own it and use it a lot. While it is a very sharp lens for its price it is not the lens that will let you truly make full use of the D7100 potential.
For my best and sharpest pictures on my D7100 I only use prime lenses and the results prove to be amazing.

  

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richardd300 Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2009Sat 09-Nov-13 06:21 AM
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#26. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 24
Sat 09-Nov-13 06:44 AM by richardd300

Dyserth, GB
          

Just picked up on this post.

I had the D90 for wildlife and found it an extremely capable camera. I swopped it for a D7000 and was disappointed with my results and never got on with the camera. However, along came the D7100 and it was a different beast. The big difference between the D90 and the D7100 is that use of post process sharpening has greatly reduced and if used at all is minimal.

I use the 70-300mm VR occasionally with the D7100 and find it most satisfactory in reasonable or good light. However, as the sharpest bird images are a result of high shutter speeds and around f8 this lens is only used in the brightest of conditions. I mostly use my 300mm f4 + x1.4TC in poor conditions and as my primary birding lens. Fast glass is always a key to success, however excellent imagery can be achieved with narrow aperture lenses if circumstances and setup are correct.

<<I am using Nikkor 70-300 VR, typically at 250mm, f/8, ISO 400-800, shutter speed 1/200-1/500>>

In my view your shutter speed is too slow. Even with static birds I never shoot below 1/800. For all other shots I try to always achieve between 1/1000 - 2000.

To conclude, the D7100 is an extremely capable camera, but is a totally different beast to the D90. It needs to be treated very differently, but when mastered the improved image quality will be plain to see.

Richard



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chesterdawg Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jul 2010Sun 10-Nov-13 01:04 PM
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#27. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 0


Commerce, US
          

I've had the D80, D90, D7000 and now the D7100. When I upgrade I don't expect to be blown away by the leaps in technology rather I enjoy the benefits of additional pixels to work with, controls like the U1 & U2 settings and auto exp. bracketing using 5 exposures instead of 3 just to name a few.
I don't think you're supposed to upgrade every model, its just not worth it. I could have used the D90 for 10yrs and been very happy. I upgrade every model when I can get factory refurbs for a lot less and enjoy the few improvements.
Don't be mad at the D7100, go shoot, quit pixel peeping and get some shots to be proud of.

Steve

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JBD90 Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Nov 2011Wed 26-Feb-14 03:07 AM
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#30. "RE: D7100 vs D90"
In response to Reply # 27


US
          

I have a D90 and I am anxiously awaiting my D7100 tomorrow. But I ordered it mainly to meter my AIS lenses (many) and for the higher res so I could crop my Macro shots a little tighter and have them hold up to the spec of the D90 which I have never been unhappy with. If it were not the ability to meter AIs lenses I would stay happy with my D90. Now I need to sell it. can't haul two around. JB

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Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D7100, D7000 (Public) topic #26451 Previous topic | Next topic


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