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ShrimpBoy Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006Wed 01-Dec-10 05:14 AM
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"D7000 review is up on dpreview"


Brighton and Hove, GB
          

The review is here.

They rate the D7000 at 80%, versus 82% for the D300S. Looking at their studio image analysis, and ignoring the slightly higher resolution of the D7000, things aren't noticeably different between the two up to ISO 3200. But the D7000 is visibly cleaner at 6400, and of course wins at the sensitivities the D300 doesn't do.

They report overexposure problems in brightly lit conditions. Perhaps Nikon are trying to force people to go out shooting at the "golden light" times? This metering unreliability, and the 3-frame bracketing limit, would make me consider a gently used D300(S) over the new camera. Luckily I can't afford either!

Gary
"Yea, Sussex by the sea!" - Rudyard Kipling

  

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caesarhernandez Registered since 04th Nov 2010Wed 01-Dec-10 11:07 AM
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#1. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 0


CR
          

My D80 has the same problem, using Matrix I consistently get over exposures in scenes with bright highlights. I generally use Center Weighted, and get better exposures. Since this is a well documented issue with the D80, I am surprised if Nikon built in the same "malfunction" in the D7000.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 01-Dec-10 11:29 AM
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#2. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 1


Paignton, GB
          

>Since this is a well documented issue with the D80, I am
>surprised if Nikon built in the same "malfunction" in the D7000.

Well, for a start it's not a "malfunction".

The D80's matrix metering was set up rather differently from some other Nikons, which led those who weren't used to it to accuse it of overexposing. Our forums were full of such posts for quite a while! But this was a deliberate decision by Nikon; it should not be thought of as a fault.

Bacause of this history, I am firmly of the opinion that Nikon have again chosen to set up the D7000 metering the way it is, and I do not expect them to consider any firmware updates to "fix" it.

As with the D80, it should be perfectly possible to get good exposures from a D7000, once you know how the meter reacts in different lighting

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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ShrimpBoy Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2006Wed 01-Dec-10 01:05 PM
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#5. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 2


Brighton and Hove, GB
          

>Bacause of this history, I am firmly of the opinion that Nikon
>have again chosen to set up the D7000 metering the way it is,
>and I do not expect them to consider any firmware updates to
>"fix" it.

You are very likely right. But if this sensor is a type that is very good at limiting shadow noise, you'd think they set the metering up to protect highlights knowing that the shadows could be safely opened up in post. As it is, these alleged "bad" images have a very point-and-shoot feel to them, which seems a shame out of an $1100 camera.

Naturally I'm really just jealous as I look at my poor old D70 and wish that I could replace it with a camera that can shoot essentially clean images at ISO 6400.

Gary
"Yea, Sussex by the sea!" - Rudyard Kipling

  

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Mon 27-Dec-10 03:52 AM
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#27. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 5


Ellington, US
          

>
>Naturally I'm really just jealous as I look at my poor old D70
>and wish that I could replace it with a camera that can shoot
>essentially clean images at ISO 6400.

Yes, Gary, you are spot on the money!

I have owned my D70s since May '06, and I have taken over 70K pictures with this machine. Great camera! Fantastic! If Nikon simply replaced it with a sensor that supported ISO 6400 as well as this D7000 does, I would take that new D70ss in a heartbeat.

I am fortunate to have been given a new D7000 by my wife. I am so far very happy with this camera and expect to enjoy it for years like I did with my D70s. But dollar for dollar, that D70s was an incredible machine.

But look at it this way, Gary: when the sun is up, the D70s is every bit as good as the D7000. In fact, the D70s only produces 6MB raw files, so it's much easier to live with on a daily basis. It's only when the sun goes down that the D7000 pulls ahead of the pack. Now, having said that, I learned that when I combine my D70s with Lightroom 3, I can freely take pictures at ISO 1600 and use my SB600 flash and get some outstanding low light shots. Sure, the D7000 makes it much easier to do, but it can be done with the D70s, too.

Beemerman2k
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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Mon 27-Dec-10 12:52 PM
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#28. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 27


US
          

>But look at it this way, Gary: when the sun is up, the D70s is
>every bit as good as the D7000.

Ah, no... Not nearly. Not in terms of color depth, color accuracy, dynamic range, not to mention a host of other factors (let's not even talk about resolution). Objective measurements won't put these two cameras in the same ballpark.

The D70/70s are fine machines. But, not every bit as good as a D7000, unless "good" is defined in a highly subjective way.

Comparisons via dxomark.com are just one way of seeing how dramatically different these two cameras can be...

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 27-Dec-10 01:33 PM
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#29. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 28
Mon 27-Dec-10 02:13 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          

>Ah, no... Not nearly. Not in terms of color depth, color
>accuracy, dynamic range, not to mention a host of other
>factors

Or, if we do choose to mention some other factors ...

...autofocus speed and flexibility, higher frames per second, greater rear monitor resolution, active d-lighting, better CLS commander functions, HD movie mode, etc.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Mon 27-Dec-10 02:00 PM
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#30. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 29


US
          

>... active d-lighting, etc.

Hear, hear! I think the Active D-Lighting is one of the best, least understood features on this camera... It just works, and works extremely well.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Tue 28-Dec-10 02:57 PM
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#31. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 30


Ellington, US
          

OK, here's why I don't buy this "D7000 is better" argument -- even though on an objective level, I would expect for it to be.

Although I currently own both cameras, if I was at this very moment assigned a "make or break" shooting assignment, in broad daylight -- let's say it's my only daughter's wedding -- which camera would I choose? My D70s, no question, hands down, I don't even have to think about it.

Why? Because I know that camera cold. No matrix metering surprises, no back focus questions, no unforseen behavior. Because I know my D70s cold, I am going to be far more efficient and mentally freed up to focus on the work at hand without devoting brain time to wondering how the camera will respond to the lighting conditions.

Sure, if I knew both cameras equally, then I'll be just as effective with the D7000, and have more tools to work with to make my pictures that much more vibrant. But I don't know both camera's equally, in fact, I am still getting to know this D7000.

Is the D70's image quality so inferior to the D7000, that my daughter's wedding pictures would be somehow inadequate? Maybe to you (although I do not believe you would be able to tell the difference), but not to me or to her; they would be priceless!

My point is simply this: at the end of the day, it's not the tool, it's the user of the tool that makes the difference. A pro with a Kodak disposable would make me look like a kindergartener with my D7000. In the same way, some of us know our hardware cold, and I would argue that we are far more effective with that "obsolete" hardware than with the latest whizbang equipment.

And this begs a question that has been burning in my heart for a while now -- why is it that some of us feel compelled to buy the latest and the greatest, instead of picking our tools carefully, mastering them completely, and then going out and focusing on the work at hand? It's as though we really do believe superior camera's take superior pictures -- rather than superior photographers with "good enough" tools take superior pictures!

To me, I'll take the superior skill set over the alleged "superior equipment" every time.

Beemerman2k
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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 28-Dec-10 03:08 PM
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#32. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 31


Paignton, GB
          

>My point is simply this: at the end of the day, it's not the
>tool, it's the user of the tool that makes the difference.

I wouldn't argue with that at all, but it's not the same as saying (as you did) that the D70s is "every bit as good" as the D7000.

Whichever camera we own, we'll get better results from it if we learn inside-out how it operates and reacts

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Tue 28-Dec-10 03:30 PM
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#33. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 32


Ellington, US
          

OK, then to the degree that Brian represents the counterpoint to my blanket statement about the camera's being equal in daylight, let me say this to Gary:

Gary, as the owner of a D7000, my pictures are no better than they were with my D70's -- only now I'm paying more $$ per photo! Learn to take superior pictures with the D70s and you'll be able to take superior pictures with the D7000+ someday. Get a D7000 now, and you'll take the same lackluster pictures as you do with your D70s (assuming you do, I have no idea really), only now you can do it even when the sun goes down.

I am both amazed and impressed with how easy the D7000 handles low light situations. So far, however, that has done absolutely nothing for my ability to take "good pictures". That skill set seems to be totally independent of the camera that I use.

Beemerman2k
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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 28-Dec-10 04:45 PM
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#37. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 33


Paignton, GB
          

>Get a D7000 now, and you'll take the same lackluster
>pictures as you do with your D70s (assuming you do, I have no
>idea really), only now you can do it even when the sun goes
>down.

It not only about low light. There are other image-taking situations where one or more features of the D7000 will allow it to produce a better result than a D70s could in the same hands. I guess you don't shoot those types of subject.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Tue 28-Dec-10 04:38 PM
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#36. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 31
Tue 28-Dec-10 04:55 PM by billD80

US
          

>Is the D70's image quality so inferior to the D7000, that my
>daughter's wedding pictures would be somehow inadequate?

Of course not. But, to many eyes, the D7000 rendering of skin tones is wonderful. I think it's better than what my D200 was able to produce. And the D200 is a great camera.

I just had an HDR image printed 12x18, 16x24 and on aluminum at 20"x30".
http://billkeane.zenfolio.com/p686788665/h9995b80

I couldn't be happier with the resolution/color rendition.

The printer of the 20x30 on aluminum says it's the best thing he's ever seen from me (and prior work he's done for me has been exhibited and sold), and he says it's one of the best he's ever seen come through his shop, ever, from anyone.

Perhaps, to a great extent, printing at smaller sizes, and shooting in fairly sedate circumstances, there is definitely a law of diminishing returns. In other words, at the extreme, a 4x6 print of a stationary subject, at ISO100, wouldn't appreciably improve from a D7000 over a D70s (or even with a D3x)... Yes, the technology is THAT GOOD in the D70s.

But there are other times when the "latest" can simply mean "better". DSLR's are especially prone to this possibility.

The image I mentioned before? Printed at 20x30, it would have definitely been better on a D3x... (Assuming the lens I used was "up to" gaining more resolution via the 24mp sensor!)





www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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digitalandfilm Registered since 13th Nov 2010Sun 02-Jan-11 08:19 PM
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#42. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 36


US
          

>I just had an HDR image printed 12x18, 16x24 and on aluminum
>at 20"x30".
>http://billkeane.zenfolio.com/p686788665/h9995b80
>
>I couldn't be happier with the resolution/color rendition.


Wow.. beautiful HDR shot (I like HDR when done right!)

"All intervening steps.. scribbles, sketches, drawings, failed work, models, studies, thoughts, conversations.. are of interest"

My website: http://www.digitalandfilm.com

  

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tauriq Registered since 06th Jan 2011Thu 06-Jan-11 09:00 PM
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#43. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 5


ZA
          

thanks for the link, great read

i once was clouded with darkness of the CANON ages.. but now i am SHOWERED WITH THE LIGHT OF THE NIKON D7000!!

  

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Wed 01-Dec-10 03:31 PM
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#7. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

>>Since this is a well documented issue with the D80, I am
>>surprised if Nikon built in the same
>"malfunction" in the D7000.
>
>Well, for a start it's not a "malfunction".
>
>The D80's matrix metering was set up rather differently from
>some other Nikons,

Having a D80 and now a D7000 I can do a direct comparison.

When I was doing test shots of the moon instead of using ‘Luney 11’ I used spot metering and the D7000 did provide about 2/3 of a stop more exposure than the D80 did. Presently it is very windy and heavy rain so instead of going outside I did some testing in my light dungeon. Setting up my tri-pod and using the same lens on the same subject the D80 and D7000 provided the same exposure reading using matrix as well as spot metering.

So I feel Brain Tilly has the best response in that with any new camera, it’s just a matter of experimenting and finding how different scenarios will produce results with different settings.

After a while if you do find that you get an over exposure consistently, you could always tweak the metering calibration via the menu option’ b5 fine tune Optimal Exposure’. But Nikon does advise using caution when using that option so it’s best to read the manual and understand thoroughly what that setting will do.

Pete

Pete

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avm247 Moderator Awarded for high skills in documentary architecture and aviation photography Charter MemberWed 01-Dec-10 05:53 PM
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#9. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 7


Rancho Cordova, US
          

Being a novice digital shooter and still entrenched in film (though saving my pennies for an FX body soon), in bright light conditions, wouldn't it be easier to dial in some under exposure? Or maybe use an graduated or split ND filter? Also, could switching from Matrix to CW or Spot alleviate some of the blown highlights?

I've been a film shooter (print and slide) and shot a little with borrowed DSLRs. Most of my experience is with film and film's characteristics. I also know how my cameras (N70, N80 and F100) behave with a given film...while all similar, each was slightly different, not so much that I had to worry about my end result but one that would get me to think "oh yeah, I need to use a grad ND filter here" or "gonna take some time to spot meter several spots and average the exposure using Manual."


Anthony

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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Wed 01-Dec-10 11:37 AM
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#3. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 0


Joanna, US
          

Imo, +- 2% in the rating doesn't amount to much as subjectivity can always come into play. With the many features to assist in the results obtained (exposure comp, etc.) and the cost savings, I decided to go with the 7k instead of the 300s. But that again is pp (personal preference).
Thanks for posting the review as it is very interesting and now people have several reviews to review.

John

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <><

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Wed 01-Dec-10 12:23 PM
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#4. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 0


Toronto, CA
          

In RAW (where it counts imo) at ISO 3200 the d7k results are noticeably better, especially in the chroma noise. Of course we are looking at tiny swatches instead of full RAW files as one would need to make a proper comparison. There are tons of these on the web, I guess Dpreview doesn't have the server room for them. Sadly Dpreview has continued to descend into gimmicky comparison charts with "cool" mouse over viewings instead of just publishing proper data needed to evaluate the cameras. "Overall scores" continue to be useless. Let's do the math, DxO scores the D300s at 70 and the D7000 at 80. Add that to their Dpreview scores and subtract and the d7000 is still 8 points ahead. Who cares, what do the pictures look like!

Having actually used a d7000 for over a month now, I have not noticed the metering issue they speak of. I guess I am using it wrong (or right). It is curious that this issue is not consistently reported by reviewers, I assume user error could be an explanation.

Jason

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 01-Dec-10 02:39 PM
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#6. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 4


Paignton, GB
          

>It is curious that this issue is not consistently reported by
>reviewers, I assume user error could be an explanation.

I wouldn't call it "user error" as such. It's more a case of unfamiliarity with how a camera reacts in different circumstances. Experimentation and practice will help to get things right

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Wed 01-Dec-10 05:21 PM
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#8. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 4
Wed 01-Dec-10 06:10 PM by billD80

US
          

My D80 tended to expose for the shadows, and my D200 for the highlights. On balance, the D200 images often needed a bit of brightness added in PP.

To me, the D7000 is in between the D80/D200 in behaviour. Of course, that's just my sample. I haven't dumped ONE shot because of blown highlights. Not one.

Heavens, time was when EACH camera of a given model had its own variables. I suspect the ones we're getting today are calibrated within MUCH tighter tolerances.

PLUS, with the HIGHLIGHTS view, if it looks like too much might be blown out, just compensate and shoot again. It's not like wasting film...

The "D400" will likely expose for the highlights (and cost $1600. for the privilege)


PS. I have to confess, when I see new D7000's going for $300. more than I paid, I'm tempted to sell mine, and buy another. Some of the DPReview criticisms seem overcooked. Like the one about the Mode Dial (please!). But even so, it beat out the 60D!

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Wed 01-Dec-10 06:28 PM
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#10. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 8


St Petersburg, RU
          

I have come to ignore DPR reviews of Nikon cameras. They always miss the point or intentionally give advantages to makes that in actual use fair poorly compared to the review. Maybe Nikon needs to spend more on ads in Amazon or on DPR to get better ratings. The review of the D90 and D3s are good examples of missing the point. They panned the D90 because of soft dull images and claimed the D3s was no better than the 1D4 in high ISO(at least they admitted that when they adjusted the sharpening up all was OK but despite knowing Nikon defaults are dull, their policy was not to change default settings). Such a report does not influence experienced shooters but it sure hurts with newbies that came away thinking the 450D at 30% lower in cost was better than the D90. In practice, in actual image capture, no one came to the same conclusion. No other review web sites agree with DPR on Nikon tests either. Those that are more clinical, and those more photography focused both tend to agree with what users find to be true.
What would one expect from Amazon however? They promote what gives the highest margin.
I had predicted on this forum and on DPR that those waiting for the D7000 review will be disappointed by low ratings due to questionable subjective reasons.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Mr Raw Registered since 29th Nov 2010Wed 01-Dec-10 06:43 PM
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#11. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

I have a question regarding the actuation counts. Why do reviews have this? Is the camera really only good for 150K shots? What happens after 150K shots?

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Wed 01-Dec-10 11:39 PM
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#13. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 11
Thu 02-Dec-10 02:41 AM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

150K actuations is the manufactures estimated life expectancy of the shutter mechanism.

Some will last longer, some may fail sooner.

This info can be useful for anyone buying used gear. The lifetime shutter count can be found in the EXIF info. It will be accurate unless the camera had a major repair that caused the count to be reset by Nikon.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Thu 02-Dec-10 12:31 AM
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#14. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 13


US
          

>150K accusations is the manufactures estimated life
>expectancy
of the shutter mechanism.
>
>Some will last longer, some may fail sooner.

Yes, when it comes to shutter "accusations", it depends on whether or not the camera has a thick skin, say of magnesium. Nikons handle "accusations" far better than lesser brands.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Thu 02-Dec-10 02:45 AM
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#17. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 14
Thu 02-Dec-10 02:45 AM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

Yes Nikons are tuff little guys!

spell checker

Thanks for pointing out that typo, Bill.

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Wed 01-Dec-10 06:53 PM
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#12. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

>I had predicted on this forum and on DPR that those waiting
>for the D7000 review will be disappointed by low ratings due
>to questionable subjective reasons.

It's funny, because tucked in the "Final Word" but not readily apparent in the Conclusions section, is this:

"The camera produces great image quality in most shooting situations, and it shines in low light, providing (just about) useable images right up to its ISO ceiling of 25,600 (equivalent). It feels swift and positive in general use, even in live view mode, thanks to greatly improved contrast-detection AF..."

Great image quality... Used to be, this is what we were all after.

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glennaa11 Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Aug 2004Thu 02-Dec-10 02:02 AM
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#15. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 12


Arlington, US
          

Frankly I don't get their harping on the button placement either. How often does anyone need to change the ISO while they are looking through the viewfinder? Don't you usually set that and the WB before you look through the finder? That just seemed to me like they were grasping for anything to call a "con".

Glenn
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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Thu 02-Dec-10 02:37 AM
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#16. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 15


US
          

>Frankly I don't get their harping on the button placement
>either.

YES! I as going to say that too. It's a dedicated button, works like a charm... ergonomically easier than being on top.

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 03-Dec-10 11:57 AM
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#25. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 16
Fri 03-Dec-10 12:30 PM by km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
          

The reviewer when called to task for the arbitrary nature of his rating admitted the button placement was based on his being used to the Canon placement and anything else feels awkward. The same for his spending a great deal of time on denigrating the Auto ISO because it was not like other brands. But many users who had both claimed the Nikon version is better suited to real life use with the lenses that a higher end camera uses: contrast aperture zooms.
While he obsessed about the button, other pointed out 3 different ways of setting the ISO, including the no-button Eze-ISO using just the wheel. He apparently though that that required a setting in the menu. Yes, it does, it is "feature" not a problem. It works great and the real problem is that it is different from his camera, a Canon, so the Nikon feature was a negative point.
When asked to defend an 80 score when higher ranked cameras, and Gold rating models were all inferior in features and image capture, he said all the other cameras are older so we need to judge based on current technology. Fine, but still what camera model in existence in this class has better use of current technology? He was very unclear in defending it. It was a problem of a confirmed Canon fan was assigned reviewing a Nikon and he placed personal ergonomics far ahead of performance in his assessment.
Amazon will push more sales to Canon surely, DPR tried to do that when the choice was a Xsi(450D) or D90. After users got to use both, they found that they were deceived about the 450d.
But what should be expect? They do the same with controlling book sales. The "user reviews" are highly manipulated and great influence sales. Back when AM radio was able to make or break any record or artist, independent promoters(independent only in that they were no officially on the books of the major labels but doing their bidding, like lobbyists today) paid DJs and program managers large sums of money to play or rate songs. That eventually was uncovered and laws against Payola were introduced. It still went on but just differently. Now, even more money is involved but the "DJs" and stations are now the web sites reviewing, that are owned by the "labels", keeping the Payola in-house and not paying anyone except themselves.
Recent studies, one described in Scientific American, shows that manipulation of user forums and ratings, and reviews is rampant and specifically point to Amazon and Trip Advisor. I know personally that the Trip Advisor ratings are highly manipulated and can only assume that the researchers were just as correct with Amazon.
Amazon must be getting quite a better discount rate from Canon than Nikon does.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Fri 03-Dec-10 04:14 PM
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#26. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 25


US
          

It was a
>problem of a confirmed Canon fan was assigned reviewing a
>Nikon and he placed personal ergonomics far ahead of
>performance in his assessment.


Thanks for the update. It's very disappointing, to say the least.

This is where PopPhoto and Shutterbug should have the journalistic courage to point out what's happening, because, in the end, it's the customer/photogragher who gets misled.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Thu 02-Dec-10 03:46 PM
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#18. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 10


Ellington, US
          

I am a lowly Nikon D70s shooter (and I love my D70s, too, I might add), but how does the Active DLighting system figure into this "overexposure" issue with the D7000? I have never worked with the dLighting feature, but my understanding is that it prevents the meter from overexposing the highlights. Is my understanding valid? Does it only effect jpg images and not raw? Why doesn't simply relying on this feature solve the problem?

Beemerman2k
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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Thu 02-Dec-10 04:42 PM
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#19. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 18


US
          

Why doesn't simply relying on
>this feature solve the problem?

According to the review, it actually does. The ADR adds a great deal to highlight capture/dynamic range. It CAN add more noise in the shadows. But, in the review, with aggressive ADR applied, the results are pretty impressive compared to everything else.

Personally, without using ADR, I have yet to notice a tendency toward over-exposure, but who knows...

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Thu 02-Dec-10 09:57 PM
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#20. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 19


Toronto, CA
          

I didn't even think of this (high ADR causing the so called hot metering). I don't use it much so that would explain why I have never noticed it.

Jason

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OpticalSerenity Registered since 23rd Oct 2006Thu 02-Dec-10 11:23 PM
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#22. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 20


Atlanta, US
          

I stopped seeing objectivity after Amazon's purchase of DPR. To each his own, but when I compared the D300s to the D7000, I went with the D7000. I could have purchased the D300s, but when I started to add it up, the D7000 blows the D300s away, FOR MY NEEDS.

Each time someone says the D300s is "so much better," I ask them what exactly it is that makes it so much better than the D7000. Their answer is typically "well, it's the pro DX camera from Nikon" or "who wants video anyways?"

  

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pperreault001 Registered since 05th Nov 2008Tue 28-Dec-10 04:25 PM
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#34. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 8


Montreal, CA
          

>My D80 tended to expose for the shadows, and my D200 for the
>highlights...
>

Hi Bill,

I think you make a very good point with this argument! Various cameras seems to favor a different type of exposure. And probably by design... I'm not a pro photographer by any means, but it's my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong that any camera when presented a high contrast scene will have to make a choice:

1. Preserve the details in the shadows, at the risk of highlights clipping.

or

2. Protect from highlights clipping but lose some details in the shadows.

Maybe technology like Active D-Lightning can help do both at the same time but from what I saw it also seems to reduced the perceived dynamic range of the picture. Yes, I know of HDR but I really don't like the look of it. Too artificial for my taste!

So basically, we have to make a choice when photographing those high contrast scenes... And those type of scenes are always a fun challenge!!!

Has you implied, it's really important to know the tendency of the camera we're using! At least with digital we can check the exposure right there on the spot for those difficult scenes.

Regards and best wishes for the Holidays,

Pierre
Montréal, Qc, Canada

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marksj Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Aug 2008Thu 02-Dec-10 11:15 PM
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#21. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 0


Long Island, US
          

I read the review carefully, and having used the D7000 for several weeks now, could not figure out their conclusion on "overexposure". Additionally, I was a bit perturbed about how often they brought up the ISO button not being properly positioned.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I cut my teeth on film. Until the F5 and F100, I did not have much beyond center-weighted metering to use, and frequently (and still do) resort to handheld incident light meters. I wonder if dpreview used anything but matrix metering in their tests.

The fact is that I have used the D7000 under a variety of lighting conditions, and see no evidence of the dpreview results. Also, I probably adjust exposure compensation like many digital-only folks change ISO, which is quite often. All cameras are slightly different, and the great advantage of digital is that we can bracket all we want without running out of film.

Good exposure is to some measure a matter of preference, but for most, it is a matter of experience.


*** F3/FM3A/F100/F5/D40x/D70/D300s/D700/D7000

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Fri 03-Dec-10 01:09 AM
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#23. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 0


Alberta, CA
          

In the month I've had the camera I haven't seen a propensity for overexposure. In fact I feel like where I have missed exposure it's on the low side

Anyhow all part of getting to know a new camera. With regard to Beemerman's comments I agree that Active D-lighting should in fact combat overexposure in jpg and raw. Because ADL can reduce exposure it does impact RAW. Furthermore for jpg and users of Nikon PP software the D-Lighting feature will also bring up the shadows.

And some of the talk out there about D7000 strong ability to lift shadows means we should be able to make more and stronger use of ADL. I'm going to incorporate this into my D7000 shooting and see what gives. Personnally it's still going to take me a while longer to form stronger sense of just what this new rig is delivering.

Meanwhile I am keeping an eye on whether matrix is more sensitive to the tonality of the subject under the focus point. If it were a dark subject it could cause overexposure.

Best regards, SteveK

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Fri 03-Dec-10 01:19 AM
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#24. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 0


Alberta, CA
          

I like the bracketing +2 capability though because I generally shoot HDR handheld and now I can fire a 3-shot burst instead of 5.

The greater tragedy is the comparative 80/79 scoring between the D7000/60D ;-(

Best regards, SteveK

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Tue 28-Dec-10 04:31 PM
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#35. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 0


Ellington, US
          

OK, so back to the topic at hand , on Page 16 of the DPReview article on the D7000, you'll see two pictures of a boat (the "Syrene") tied to a dock. One picture is taken at the camera's metered exposure value, where the second picture is taken at a -1.5 exposure compensation value. So what is the lesson here? -- that the D7000 tends to overexpose in Matrix metering mode?

I have heard some claim that the Matrix metering system is behaving exactly the way Nikon intended it to. OK, then how exactly is that? What justifies this overexposed photo? or put another way, if I am standing where this photographer is standing, at the very same time of day, with the very same daylight, and I am in Matrix metering mode, what should I understand about this camera to ensure I get a proper exposure?

Secondly, and more importantly, one could just knock of 1.5EV from the metered exposure value, but what would have happened in this case if the photographer simply resorted to Center-weighted metering?

Beemerman2k
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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 28-Dec-10 04:48 PM
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#38. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 35


Paignton, GB
          

I suggest you read and absorb Thom Hogan's very even-handed review if you're trying to understand this issue. It is linked to in another recent thread here.

Thom explains quite clearly why the D7000 is not "overexposing" as some people claim.

Brian
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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Tue 28-Dec-10 05:59 PM
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#39. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 35
Wed 29-Dec-10 01:46 AM by JPJ

Toronto, CA
          

Basically the d7000 does not place the same degree of importance on exposing the area under the active AF point as previous Nikons did. The matrix metering system instead tries to expose as evenly as possible for the entire scene, just like a matrix metering is supposed to. Further, as Thom Hogan pointed out, much of what people are looking at as "over exposure" has more to do with the picture settings than the metering. Hogan recommends that people try shooting in Neutral with -1 contrast and see how that impacts the photos. I did recently and actually like the colour rendition more, it is extremely accurate (I was shooting in standard with the normal contrast setting).

I would be curious whether the DPReview shots had active D-Lighting on. It will tend to bring up both the shadow and highlight areas.

In any event having looked at the photos, I don't see what the D7000 did wrong. Both photos are examples of scenes with a dynamic range that simply exceeds the sensors (not surprising given that you have swaths and dimples of direct sunlight in the scene coupled with areas in fairly deep shade). In fact looking at the histograms confirms this. The d7000 matrix meter histogram reveals a balanced histogram that has clipped on both the right and left side due to the dynamic range in the scene. The key here however is that it has balanced the scene, thus retaining as much of the range possible for both the highlights and the shadows. This means retaining the most detail for the entire scene. In terms of the highlights the real problem appears to be the direct sunlight on the water and the bright sky causing a notably clipped blue channel on the right. The exposure compensation photo (which to my eyes is a worse exposure then the one the d7000 created), shows an unbalanced histogram, that is shifted to and badly clipped to the left. The result is a dark, underexposed photo with decent detail in the brighter highlights and no detail in the shadows.

Ultimately if you have scene such as this where the DR exceeds the sensor your choices are:

1. Wait and take the photo at a different time, say not at 12 noon to 4 p.m. when any outdoor photo will likely run up against this problem on any camera.

2. Use grads and CP to reduce the DR.

3. Expose for your subject with spot or center weighted metering in order to retain proper detail where you want it while ignoring the loss of detail in areas you don't care about.

This is why landscape photographers don't take photos in the afternoon under bright sunny conditions.

This is also why I don't think much of DPReview. Nice examples 'proving' hot metering, why don't we try taking photos within the dynamic range of (any) camera and see what the results are.

Jason


edit: Fresh from Hogan's site:

"D7000 Overexposes. I haven't yet found one that does. Indeed, install a UniWB on the D7000 and you might decide the D7000 underexposes. The default camera settings set a very bright gamma, use high contrast settings, the camera has a too-bright LCD, and the metering isn't as aggressive in bringing down highlight detail in high contrast scenes like older Nikons. But the camera does not overexpose. Users overexpose."

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beemerman2k Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Mar 2006Wed 29-Dec-10 04:06 AM
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#40. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 39


Ellington, US
          

Thank you for the clarification, Jason. I didn't "get it" when I read Hogan's review; I wasn't sure what he was offering as his explanation. You cleared it up nicely.

For the record, I am very unfamiliar with Active-D Lighting or D Lighting. The D70s didn't have that feature, lowly camera that it is. So I have it turned off until I can learn about what it does and how it works. That sorta clouded Hogans article from me a bit because I am behind the curve with respect to Nikon technology and features.

I do get the idea of a camera having a limited dynamic range and that using that limitation to single out a particular model is ignorant at best and suspect at worse. I do get that point!

Beemerman2k
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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Wed 29-Dec-10 12:06 PM
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#41. "RE: D7000 review is up on dpreview"
In response to Reply # 40


US
          

>For the record, I am very unfamiliar with Active-D Lighting or
>D Lighting.

Active DLighting in the D7000 (D300s) is NOT the same animal as what's in Capture NX2 Post-Processing...

Here is a link to an article I think does a good job showing it off in a D300: http://sportsphotoguy.com/active-d-lighting-on-the-nikon-d300/

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