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Subject: "So the DxOMark is out and..." Previous topic | Next topic
JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Wed 27-Mar-13 06:14 PM
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"So the DxOMark is out and..."
Wed 27-Mar-13 06:17 PM by JPJ

Toronto, CA
          

My read is that the D7100 is basically to the D5200, what the D800E is to the D800, at least in terms of overall image quality (there are of course many other differences, but based on sensor and ultimate image quality).

Edit: I tried to post a link comparing the D7100, D5200 and D600 but it doesn't like some of the characters, so you will have to go to dxomark.com and compare them yourself if you wish.

The D600 has slightly better dynamic range throughout, but has 2x better ISO performance according to the ISO score.

While I am not sold on the idea of DxOMark's scores necessarily translating into final image quality directly - they don't tend to be that far off.

Food for thought anyway.

Bottom line - the D7100 looks to be the top of the DX line for image quality right now, even with the Pentax line scoring slightly higher DR/ISO, the lack of AA filter will resolve more detail.

Jason

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
billD80 Silver Member
27th Mar 2013
1
Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
JPJ Silver Member
27th Mar 2013
2
     Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
billD80 Silver Member
27th Mar 2013
3
     Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
jgreg Silver Member
28th Mar 2013
4
     Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
jules
28th Mar 2013
5
     Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
jgreg Silver Member
28th Mar 2013
6
          Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
jules
28th Mar 2013
7
     Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
km6xz Moderator
28th Mar 2013
8
          Reply message RE: So the DxOMark is out and...
JPJ Silver Member
28th Mar 2013
9
               Reply message RE: 7D
jules
29th Mar 2013
10
                    Reply message RE: 7D
km6xz Moderator
29th Mar 2013
11
                         Reply message RE: 7D
jules
29th Mar 2013
12

billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Wed 27-Mar-13 08:21 PM
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#1. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 0
Wed 27-Mar-13 08:48 PM by dm1dave

US
          

Looks rather nice...

Click here.




www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Wed 27-Mar-13 10:20 PM
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#2. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 1


Toronto, CA
          

I defer to your web savvy!

Seriously though, you want to watch a group of photographers trash DxOMark, look for any thread related to that 7D score, Canon users lost their freakin' minds.

Jason

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Wed 27-Mar-13 11:52 PM
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#3. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

>I defer to your web savvy!
>
>Seriously though, you want to watch a group of photographers
>trash DxOMark, look for any thread related to that 7D score,
>Canon users lost their freakin' minds.
>
>Jason

Well, yeah. Based on scores, the Nikon people know how to develop sensors. Though it's photographers that make pictures... Still the DxO results for the D7100 are impressive in that the D7000 was already great. We get better color depth, higher ISO capability, slightly less DR, and 8 more megapixels...

Not counting the better AF, all in at the same introductory price!

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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jgreg Silver Member Charter MemberThu 28-Mar-13 04:31 AM
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#4. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 3


Sheboygan Falls, US
          

>>I defer to your web savvy!
>>
>>Seriously though, you want to watch a group of
>photographers
>>trash DxOMark, look for any thread related to that 7D
>score,
>>Canon users lost their freakin' minds.
>>
>>Jason
>
>Well, yeah. Based on scores, the Nikon people know how to
>develop sensors. Though it's photographers that make
>pictures... Still the DxO results for the D7100 are
>impressive in that the D7000 was already great. We get better
>color depth, higher ISO capability, slightly less DR, and 8
>more megapixels...
>
>Not counting the better AF, all in at the same introductory
>price!

They call it Canon right. You put powder, a ball and fuse in it. Then you light it off or shoot it. That's what you do with a Canon. I had the first EOS 620 back in 1987. The body is ok but the lenses broke on me. I took it back to the camera store and traded it for a Nikon FA and a Nikkor 35-105mm and never looked back. Canon can not hold a candle to Nikon.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jules Basic MemberThu 28-Mar-13 05:41 AM
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#5. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 2


GB
          

>I defer to your web savvy!
>
>Seriously though, you want to watch a group of photographers
>trash DxOMark, look for any thread related to that 7D score,
>Canon users lost their freakin' minds.
>
>Jason

Actually having owned a 7D I think that DXO is not that far off!
I found the sensor to be very, erm gritty to say the least. Owning a D600, I'd say the comparison between it and the D7100 would be about right, judging by the ability to twist around the D600 files that I require because of my duff exposure technique


Cheers jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Grumpy, Middle Aged, Bad Tempered, Arthritic, Asthmatic, Tinnitus Suffering, Mountain Man...
Now with I.B.S!

www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

  

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jgreg Silver Member Charter MemberThu 28-Mar-13 05:53 AM
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#6. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 5


Sheboygan Falls, US
          

>>I defer to your web savvy!
>>
>>Seriously though, you want to watch a group of
>photographers
>>trash DxOMark, look for any thread related to that 7D
>score,
>>Canon users lost their freakin' minds.
>>
>>Jason
>
>Actually having owned a 7D I think that DXO is not that far
>off!
>I found the sensor to be very, erm gritty to say the least.
>Owning a D600, I'd say the comparison between it and the D7100
>would be about right, judging by the ability to twist around
>the D600 files that I require because of my duff exposure
>technique
>
>
>Cheers jules...
>tri-elmar-fudd
>
>Grumpy, Middle Aged, Bad Tempered, Arthritic, Asthmatic,
>Tinnitus Suffering, Mountain Man...
>Now with I.B.S!
>
>www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

I agree with you on the Nikon D600 & D7100. I own both but had to send the D7100 back to B&H because of dirt on the sensor. I had enough of that with my D600. I think they are close and I really like the way the D7100 focuses and the view finder. Those two things make a big difference to me because of my bad eyes. I can't wait to get my Nikon D7100 back. I don't think I will see until April 10 or later.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jules Basic MemberThu 28-Mar-13 06:31 AM
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#7. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 6


GB
          

It's the next thing on my list (D7100 that is) for the extra reach having decided that the new 80-400 is out of my price range/comfort zone for a Lens!
I 've had a quick try of one and was suitably impressed and being a D600 owner I feel the need for a back up body!
Cheers jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Grumpy, Middle Aged, Bad Tempered, Arthritic, Asthmatic, Tinnitus Suffering, Mountain Man...
Now with I.B.S!

www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Thu 28-Mar-13 12:53 PM
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#8. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 2


St Petersburg, RU
          

The 7D rating is appropriate based on IQ and color depth but it is too generous in its DR rating. At base Iso it was beat out by the D90. A number of my friends who shoit as pros in the same events I do have 7Ds or 5DII they were pretty much limited to very few pp options because the files had not much recoverable shadow detail. Pushing shadows .7 ev would give an ugly mess of artifacts where the D7000 had all sorts of recoverable information.

At higher ISO the 7D has some aggressive NR even in raw that ruins detail as bad as the k-5 famously does. Overall, any current Nikon has better low ISO and DR than any Canon ever made. That is pretty impressive that d3200 top there pro bodies in optimum iq at low ISO.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Thu 28-Mar-13 01:57 PM
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#9. "RE: So the DxOMark is out and..."
In response to Reply # 8


Toronto, CA
          

I agree 100% with this, along with what others have stated re: the 7D score.

As I said I find the DxO score definitely has a correlation to the image quality.

My point is that it is fun to watch what happens when the score doesn't say what people want it to say. Heck, 5d mkiii users went nuts when the D800 smoked it, but it has the same issue as other Canon FFs. It has great ISO performance if you have good exposure, but if you have to raise your shadow levels it goes to pot really quick.

Nikon has mastered retaining detail in shadow areas, and for many users that is very, very useful. The d7100 shares this attribute.

Jason

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jules Basic MemberFri 29-Mar-13 05:56 AM
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#10. "RE: 7D"
In response to Reply # 9
Fri 29-Mar-13 06:10 AM by jules

GB
          

Stan/Jason I couldn't agree more with regards to the 7D and 5D mkII I had, the sensor noise on the 7D was abysmal and th 5D mkII had very little shadow recovery possible without inducing Hellacious banding, My Canon user experience was not a happy one and thus very short lived! Yes it is fun to watch events when the scores reflect badly, just good old human nature really but always be ready to howl in protest when someone bashes your Camera
I've had quite a few bad Nikon's to be honest, mainly down to quality control I suspect though but I'm not adverse to a bit of good old Nikon bashing these days either...


Cheers jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Grumpy, Middle Aged, Bad Tempered, Arthritic, Asthmatic, Tinnitus Suffering, Mountain Man...
Now with I.B.S!

www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 29-Mar-13 06:40 AM
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#11. "RE: 7D"
In response to Reply # 10


St Petersburg, RU
          

I think there is a fundamental design philosophy difference between Nikon and Canon. Canon makes some very good cameras but all have a few fundamental weaknesses that would be unacceptable for many Nikon users who have been trained to expect excellent file quality as a given. Canon has struggled from generation to generation with AF and banding issues. For good light, my 5DII owner friends get great looking portraits, with a "look" I really like. Some people like the Canon "color" better than other brands.
The quality of data recorded with all the Nikon models from the d90 on have been class leading in the characteristics that are important to overall image quality and file flexibility.
Nikon owners complain about recent QC problems but not fundamental baked in design problems that Canon owners suffer through. Really, imagine the end of the world predictions from Nikon users if they bought a $6000 camera that could not focus....by design...with no fix possible. But Canon owners of 1D3 had the sole option of living with it or buy a 1D4 when it became available.....which still had a problem that it could not lock on subjects colored red. Not a good trait for a sports and action camera.
When looking at the options, it seemed that the uproar about the far left AF point accuracy that some D800's had misadjusted or the need for higher shutter speed for sharp images with the D7000 that filled forums with howls of despair, objectively, we have been spoiled by just how good the Nikon's have been. A D800 with one AF point out of adjustment is still the best imaging machine in the DSLR format in the world. The D7000 was still the best imaging DX machine in the world and now it appears that the addition of real pro AF into the D7100 firmly plants it on top of the heap again. But compare every model, such as the D3200 to anything, at any price and it embarrasses some pretty high end cameras. As a mid-line hobbyist camera the D5200 is the best affordable camera on the market...ever. So when seeing complaints that if does not have Wi-Fi so ranks below some competing models that can't produce image quality that is not at all competitive to the D5200 should tell an objective reader more about the marketing pressures on the reviewer than anything about the cameras involved.

The D600 would be the top of the FX pile if the D800 had not been introduced first with better imaging than a 1Dx costing 3 times as much or even a D3x costing 4 times as much. Combined into a compact solid body, all anyone could talk about for months has been a bit of dirt accumulating on the sensor, which by all accounts goes away with time is a good illustration of not keeping things in perspective. Sure, some were so angered by the prospect of having to clean their camera occasionally that they switched to cameras that did not have that problem. But they, without exception, ended up with a camera that created less quality output. It shows their priorities were such that it begs the question as to why they upgraded in the first place if image quality was such a minor part of their buying decision.

Taking an overview, there seems to be balancing act between falsely equivalent factors that amplifies the ancillary feature anomalies to equal fundamental core functionality issues just to have an appearance of competitiveness. Give me great file quality any day over a convenience add on.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jules Basic MemberFri 29-Mar-13 07:25 AM
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#12. "RE: 7D"
In response to Reply # 11
Fri 29-Mar-13 07:32 AM by jules

GB
          

Stan, informed commentary as usual
"I think there is a fundamental design philosophy difference between Nikon and Canon"

I agree the looks are very different and the way they go about their business in operation is different too, I simply could not get that "NIKON lOOK" out of my 5D mkII and maybe that was my problem, I should not have been trying to do that but it showed up the weakness in the RAW files to me very early on. I couldn't live with the output and went on a merry-go-round of manufacturers, determined as I was not to come back to Nikon. Sony Full Frame and APSC SLT and the Pentax K7/K5 X2 and finally back!

"Nikon owners complain about recent QC problems but not fundamental baked in design problems that Canon owners suffer through"
Agree again Stan, Is there is something fundamentally up at Canon?
I wonder?
I had a Stained D7000 which was replaced by a Spotty one, which is what caused me to leave and go to Canon, the grass was definately not greener but too much forum reading convinced me otherwise, and I made a regrettable and very expensive move based on sheer fallacy it would seem.

I loved my Sony A900 but it became clear to me after buying and regretting doing so a Sony A77 SLT As a second body the noise performance is worse than the 7D! (7D is a noisy camera masked by clever firmware/software, and the Sony? Well they just didn't bother trying to mask it!) SLT and Digital viewfinder is not for me and it was clear that Sony were hell bent on it so I bailed.

"The D600 would be the top of the FX pile if the D800 had not been introduced first"

For me the 600 is the top of the FX imaging pile but we'll have to differ there and yes it's purely personal and probably sheer bloody mindedness on my part!


Cheers jules...
tri-elmar-fudd

Grumpy, Middle Aged, Bad Tempered, Arthritic, Asthmatic, Tinnitus Suffering, Mountain Man...
Now with I.B.S!

www.exaggeratedperspectives.com

  

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