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Subject: "D7000 or wait for D400??" Previous topic | Next topic
dkkruse Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Feb 2003Fri 17-Sep-10 06:59 PM
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"D7000 or wait for D400??"


Fairfax, US
          

I currently have a D200 and have been waiting very patiently for the D400 since I am not a pro and don't have to have every incremental change. I definitely have gotten my money's worth from the D200 and plan to keep using it, but the low light performance has been a little frustrating for me.
The D7000 looks really compelling but that leaves me wondering what the D400 will offer when it comes out, other than heavier construction and ergonomics. The D7000 offers a very compelling upgrade, so the D400 must be crazy good to make people want to move up. Any thoughts as to how?
The other question is WHEN it will come out with the D4... I guess next spring.

NAS is kicking in!

www.davidkrusephoto.com

Fairfax, VA

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Fri 17-Sep-10 07:05 PM
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#1. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

If you wait, you'll find that the D400 is going to be amazing. It will also compel you to wonder what the D500 and D8000 will be like. I won't speculate as to what it will look like. I know I would have missed pretty badly on the D7k.

The D4 is highly unlikely to arrive before late next summer, and more likely in the fall, if the "cycles of products" timing is to be believed. On the other hand, there are literally thousands of details associated with designing, manufacturing, marketing and selling these things that could cause things to move one way or another. (Nearly always these take the form of "the X thingie does not work yet, and we will need another Y months to complete it, and it will even take Z months to remove it entirely.")

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 17-Sep-10 07:14 PM
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#2. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


St Petersburg, RU
          

Hi David, you are right that the D400 will likely be good but do not expect it to have better IQ or lower noise. The difference between the D300 and D90 was in details of use, not basic image capture. Expect a better AF version of the CAM4800 that the D7000 has, expect better video in respect to frame rate at 1080p at 30fps, wider bracketing, more dedicated controls and better weather sealing. The new processor in the D7000 is supposed to be a lot faster and wider in data path, and at the beginning of its refinement path. There is enough horsepower in it to process 14 bit images faster, so if the buffer is greatly increased expect longer sequences of higher frame rates. Apparently the D7000 does well in processing full 14 bit images. I doubt pixel count will be much different than the D7000 like the D90<>D300 shared a lot of specs.
It will surely cost more than the D300s did when it came out.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Kit Sims Taylor Registered since 16th Feb 2006Fri 17-Sep-10 08:01 PM
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#3. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 2


Kingston, US
          

Two things I would like to see in the D400 -- of course in addition to the new features embodied in the D7000 -- at least one of the slots for CF cards (Ihave a lot of them) and ability to use the same vertical grip as the D300.

KST
www.arovingvision.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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DVDMike Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Mar 2003Mon 20-Sep-10 04:41 PM
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#23. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 3


Metro Atlanta, US
          

Kit, I agree. Same grip and at least one CF card slot. Those SD cards are almost too small. I have already lost at least one of them. And, like you, I already have a ton of CF cards.

  

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rselby Registered since 26th Feb 2006Tue 21-Sep-10 03:48 AM
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#29. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 3


Modesto, US
          

>Two things I would like to see in the D400 -- of course in
>addition to the new features embodied in the D7000 -- at least
>one of the slots for CF cards (Ihave a lot of them) and
>ability to use the same vertical grip as the D300.
>
>KST
>www.arovingvision.com

Visit
>my
>Nikonians gallery>.




Yeah, that would be nice but you know Nikon will change things just enough to warrant a new grip. So far the majority of new lenses have at least a $300.00 premium.... or more! I guess we'll have to wait and see.

  

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Bob Chadwick Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jan 2006Fri 17-Sep-10 08:56 PM
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#5. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 2


Norcross, US
          

>The difference between the D300 and D90 was in details of use, not
>basic image capture.

I think your right Stan. There will be some enhancements to justify the price difference but the main difference will be that the D400 will be geared toward those of us that change settings frequently and want buttons verus going into the menu.

Visit
My Nikonians Gallery
NorcrossPics.Com

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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Fri 17-Sep-10 08:03 PM
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#4. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 17-Sep-10 08:06 PM by ZoneV

US
          

Sensor-wise, the D400, if it is DX format, could very well be nearly identical to the D7000. There is a good chance that they will share the same sensor. Maybe not, but still something to think about. Think D90 sensor versus D300 sensor. Pretty much the same.

I would say that the D7000 looks like a worthy upgrade to the D200. All the key areas, like speed, metal body, AI lens compatability, etc are there. Just a few relatively minor things geared more toward the professional, like CF card, remote terminals, control layout, etc, are missing on the D7000.

Also, the D400, if and when it arrives next year, may be over $2000. Just something to think about.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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aerobat Registered since 05th May 2006Fri 17-Sep-10 08:59 PM
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#6. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 4


Büren, CH
          

I have a D200 and D300 and like to replace the D200 whith a camera with higher ISO capabilities and I also like to get into movies. Sure I'm wondering about a D400 too because I like these kind of bodies with good access to all functions. But I also like to have a second smaller than the D300 body. So I guess the D7000 will just fit the bill. I've got one on preorder and I can't wait to try it out.

Regards,

Daniel Diggelmann
A Swiss Nikonian

  

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snegron Silver Member Nikonian since 05th May 2007Sat 18-Sep-10 03:43 PM
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#13. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 4


Cape Coral, Florida, US
          

>Sensor-wise, the D400, if it is DX format, could very well be
>nearly identical to the D7000. There is a good chance that
>they will share the same sensor. Maybe not, but still
>something to think about. Think D90 sensor versus D300 sensor.
>Pretty much the same.
>
>I would say that the D7000 looks like a worthy upgrade to the
>D200. All the key areas, like speed, metal body, AI lens
>compatability, etc are there. Just a few relatively minor
>things geared more toward the professional, like CF card,
>remote terminals, control layout, etc, are missing on the
>D7000.
>
>Also, the D400, if and when it arrives next year, may be over
>$2000. Just something to think about.


I agree. I too would like to jump on the D7000 from my D200, but I found some of the missing features a bit of a turn off. The problem with a D400 at a price tag in the $2000.00 range is that it will be too close to the D700 (FX) range. If I had to spend for something in that price range I would put the extra money down for a D700. I only have one DX lens (a Nikon 17-55mm 2.8), but the rest of my lenses are all "full frame".

I wonder if the D400 will have the option of switching from DX to FX at will with a primary focus on DX? Maybe higher speeds and buffer rates in DX mode? Maybe it will fill in the gap left behind by the old D2H as the ultimate Nikon sports camera!

  

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aerobat Registered since 05th May 2006Sat 18-Sep-10 03:48 PM
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#14. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 13


Büren, CH
          

I'd be interested which features you're missing versus the D200. I may have overlooked something. There's no AF-ON button but for my shooting style I don't use it anyway. Are there any other features missing?

Regards, Daniel

Daniel Diggelmann
A Swiss Nikonian

  

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luhar Registered since 07th Jul 2004Fri 17-Sep-10 10:23 PM
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#7. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 17-Sep-10 10:23 PM by luhar

Washington, US
          

I'm basically in the same boat. I've been using my D200 since it came out, and there have been only two "drawbacks" to it. One is the low light/shadow noise. My images have become darker and darker, and I'd like to be able to maintain shadow detail with low noise. Also, I do actually want a higher resolution sensor. I tend to like to crop out interesting parts of images, and the more pixels I have to work with, the sharper the final crop...

I'm wondering why the D7000 uses a new grip... anyone have any idea why they didn't stick with the D300/700 grip?

Either way, I'm probably waiting till my tax refund, so I can see how things start to pan out. Fantastic camera no matter what though...

Rahul

Rahul Saha
eyeofraphoto.com
Vienna, VA, USA
D200, 18-200vr, 50 f/1.4 D, Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 DG HSM

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Sun 19-Sep-10 01:06 PM
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#18. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 7


Wethersfield, US
          

>I'm wondering why the D7000 uses a new grip... anyone have any
>idea why they didn't stick with the D300/700 grip?

It wouldn't fit; the D7000 body is a different shape from the D300s.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Fri 17-Sep-10 10:29 PM
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#8. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

Setting aside any sensor issues, how much do you like the D200 body? Would you want a D400, with that type of body, rather than the D7000 you can buy now? If so, wait. If you'd be content with the D7000 body (and the lower price), buy it now.

I have a D300. If I were in your position, I'd wait.

Randy

  

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pdekman Gold Member Winner in The Nikonians 10th Anniversary Photo Contest Awarded as a regular contributor who offers in-depth knowledge to members who are interested in building efficient work flows. Nikonian since 17th Nov 2005Fri 17-Sep-10 11:07 PM
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#9. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 17-Sep-10 11:36 PM by pdekman

Swisher, US
          

I'm evaluating the same situation for my D200 upgrade - the D7K came closer to an option than I expected, but still with some reservations. My needs/desires for a next camera would be:

Body: Metal, weather sealed, with grip option
Sensor: DX, ~15MP, usable noise/DR/color at ISO6400
Lens Compatability: Ai, non-CPU, etc.
AF: Improved tracking and multiple cross-sensors. D300 perf. would be great.
Speed: 8fps (at full bit-depth)
Ergonomics: Must have AF-On, Bracketing, Mirror-Up, and flash commander. Good use of buttons/dials for shooting options.
Features: LiveView and respectable 720p video with AF capability
LCD: 3", ~1MPix, good sunlight readability. Articulated? - perhaps.
Other: Dual card-slot with fast write capability.
Cost: How about $1500... 'ish

Both the D300s and D7K are close and the D400 may exceed these specs. I was assuming a Fall '11 release, but if the D7K sensor is packaged in the D300 body with existing AF, that could come sooner? I'd be happy with a D350!






Paul
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Sat 18-Sep-10 03:12 AM
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#10. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 9


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

>... I was assuming a Fall '11 release, but if the D7K
>sensor is packaged in the D300 body with existing AF, that
>could come sooner? I'd be happy with a D350!

All we can do is guess, but my guess is the D400 should be announced soon. I'm thinking D300s sales should slow to a trickle, some lost to the D7000, and some to people who will wait for that level of performance in a DX00 body. The D300s is a great camera, but you'd have to pause before paying more for a camera that doesn't have the image quality of a less expensive sibling.

Randy

  

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pdekman Gold Member Winner in The Nikonians 10th Anniversary Photo Contest Awarded as a regular contributor who offers in-depth knowledge to members who are interested in building efficient work flows. Nikonian since 17th Nov 2005Sat 18-Sep-10 04:01 AM
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#11. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 10


Swisher, US
          

I agree with your points and can only guess as well. I'm in a position to buy now, but the D7K is not quite what I want, and the D300s is starting to look like more $ for less sensor in comparison. So, in my case, I will probably continue to shoot my D200 and wait.

If the D4 tech advancements are not scheduled until the fall of '11 - and Nikon desires to get the full DX lineup refreshed sooner than that - then perhaps the D300s gets an earlier update and the D4 technology will be rolled into the FX camera lineup later in the year.

OK Nikon, may I have a D350 for Christmas this year?

Paul
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Sat 18-Sep-10 09:31 PM
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#15. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

No way would Nikon want to wait another whole year to launch the D400. The D300 came out 3 years ago. Nikon seems to be on a 3.5 year schedule for these bodies, so best guess is first half of 2011 for teh D400. The D4 is another story...mid to late 2011 is more like it.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Sat 18-Sep-10 09:16 AM
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#12. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


Bedfordshire, GB
          

I love my D200, but it is getting old and has clocked up 100K shutter releases, so I am eagerly waiting for its replacement. The D300/s is also now an "old" camera and does not offer enough of a step forward compared to the D200. I have been waiting for the D400 announcement forever!

Having looked at the D7000 I feel it is a lovely camera, but it is not a D200 replacement. It is a high end consumer body with semi-pro pretensions, but it is not a semi-pro body. For the kind of photography I do (advanced, semi-pro, demanding, teaching) I really need the next generation in the semi-pro line. The D7000 is not it. So, I am still waiting for the D400. It cannot be long to go now - he said, desperately hoping Nikon will do it soon.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Sat 18-Sep-10 09:37 PM
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#16. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 12
Sat 18-Sep-10 09:39 PM by ZoneV

US
          

It could be a replacement if you replace a D200 with it. There are many photographers who have found that as new cameras come out, they can get away with replacing higher-end bodies with lower-end ones. A lot of Canon shooters, for example, replaced their EOS-1D Mark II bodies (a camera that was in between the D2H and D3 in performance) with the EOS-7D (a camera that is similar to the D300 but newer and arguably higher spec'd).

It all comes down to what satisfies a given user. I am seriously considering replacing both my D1x and new D90 (which I bought for a certain gig) with a D7000. There are things that the D1x does better (faster AF, better viewfinder, built-in grip, more durable, PC and remote terminals, higher flash sync speed mainly). But I'm willing to compromise because I think I can get away with it. With a partially magnesium body, AI lens compatability, and an optional grip, the D7000 comes quite close in many ways, and beats the D1x in most other ways. The D200 is a bit harder to beat. If I had a D200 instead, I probably would not replace it with a D7000 (though I might supplement it with one).

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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BR Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Nov 2006Sun 19-Sep-10 02:09 AM
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#17. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 12


Glen Mills, US
          

>Having looked at the D7000 I feel it is a lovely camera, but
>it is not a D200 replacement. It is a high end
>consumer body with semi-pro pretensions, but it is not
>a semi-pro body.

Could you please elaborate?

Thanks.

Barry

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 20-Sep-10 04:47 PM
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#24. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 17
Mon 20-Sep-10 04:49 PM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

A semi-pro body will usually have more setting that can be changed on the fly with fingertip control instead of having to go into the menus. They will usually have a larger buffer capacity, enhanced AF and a stronger/faster AF motor for use with non AFS lenses.

Just compare the D90 body with the D300 body. It is likely the differences between the D7000 and the D400 will be similar.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
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DVDMike Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Mar 2003Mon 20-Sep-10 04:53 PM
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#25. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 12


Metro Atlanta, US
          

Steve, why don't you think that the D7000 is not good enough to be classified "semi-pro"?

Until I just sold my D90, I had been using the D3/D300/D90 professionally. The D7000 appears to be a step up to the D90 at least and in many respects to the D300. I also used to shoot with the D200 professionally and the D90 far exceeds it in IQ for the type of work that I shot professionally. The D200 never made it into my pro bag for two years after I purchased the D90. The only reason why the D90 was the 3rd camera in my bag behind the D300 was because I already had the grip for the D300 or I would have used the D90 for more than just when I wanted a "small"/no-grip camera. The D90 had a good enough build quality to use professionally with care. Other than this and the lack of PC sync, I thought that the D90 was superior to the D200 in almost every aspect.

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 20-Sep-10 05:05 PM
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#26. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 25
Tue 21-Sep-10 09:07 PM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

The classification of the camera is not really about how capable or good enough the camera is. It is more about the Nikon intends to market the camera. Most of today’s low end DSLR’s produce better image quality then many older pro bodies.

Judging by the price point and the controls on this body Nikon is primarily targeting the enthusiast consumer with this body. Of course some pro’s and semi-pros will use the D7000 for their work even though Nikon has chosen to place at the enthusiast level in the overall lineup.

In actual use the designation of pro, semi-pro, or consumer is irrelevant. What is important is how the camera fits your needs and your shooting style.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Tue 21-Sep-10 05:53 PM
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#32. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 25


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Hi Mike,

Just to be clear, the D7000 is going to prove to be an amazing camera for the many users who buy it. However, there are some things that set a semi-pro body apart. For example, the semi-pro will have a full magnesium body, with really robust water and dust sealing. It will also have a wide range of selectable functions that do not need a dial selector, but rather have push-button selectors. They also are likely to have CF card storage with its wider 16 bit data-bus. The semi-pro will also have "almost-pro" features like a maximum frames-per-second rate that is greater than a consumer model.

Nikon also offers a superior service turnaround for semi-pro bodies (in the UK, anyway). When I last took my D200 to Nikon UK they turned it round while I waited, but my son's D40 had to be left there for 48 hours - the reason was given that semi-pro bodies receive a superior service.

Looking at the D7000, it has some amazing features, like a 100% viewfinder and 16.2MP CMOS sensor! But if the D7000 is offering this level of features, the impending D400 (or whatever it will be called) is likely to have an even more amazing specification.

Put it all together and that's why I feel the D7000 is not a semi-pro replacement. It's an amazing body, but it's not the natural replacement for the D200/D300. Nikon is almost certainly keeping that distinction for the forthcoming D400.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
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Ramesses Registered since 29th Mar 2007Fri 08-Oct-10 06:32 PM
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#78. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 32


US
          

Hi Steve:

I have no idea what the D400 would be like, but I do not agree with you for the following reasons. The D7K has a Magnesium alloy body with all the sealing of a D300, for example. It is even rated with the same number of shutter releases as the D700 (175,000.) The Leica M9, for example, is a much smaller and simpler camera than most Nikons and yet it is considered a “Pro” camera. In fact, Leica just put an APS-C sensor in the X1, which is slighter bigger than the D-lux 4/5.

The advances in technology are for faster, lighter and faster products. Remember the first cell, the Dyna:



From my perspective, I see no reason why I should carry a DX camera of the same size and weight of an FX one. What is the advantage of that? If I opt for a smaller sensor, a compromise, then I should get the advantage of having a smaller camera.

Best regards,

Hektor

A Nikonian in Kemet

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My Photo Album: Hektors Photos

  

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RWCooper Registered since 04th Jul 2004Sun 19-Sep-10 03:17 PM
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#19. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


Winnipeg, CA
          

Hi,

I'm waiting to see what the D400 will have to offer. Based on the D7K specs I expect the D400 to be something very special. I hope I'm not disappointed.

Enjoy!
Randy

  

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MikeBee Gold Member Charter MemberSun 19-Sep-10 03:40 PM
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#20. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


Stamford, US
          

I also have the D200 and have been considering the D300s, or waiting for the D400 whatever and whenever that might be. However I have always wished that the D300s was a bit less hefty. Now the D7000 has come along, and it looks like being just what I want. I've read various comments about what it lacks and what others think it should have, but heh, I reckon it'a got 100% of everything I need 98% of the the time. And on top of that the price looks right (especially since I've been gearing myself up for the D300s/replacement). Looks like an early Christmas gift to myself ...

Mike

www.beresford-photos.com

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JerryT Registered since 31st May 2010Mon 20-Sep-10 01:30 AM
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#21. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 20-Sep-10 01:31 AM by JerryT

US
          

I'm betting the D400 would represent some significant additional features over the D7000 although I'm not certain exactly what they'd be. Further I can't see the D400 coming out anytime soon.

The price point difference between the D300 and D7000 is fairly significant so Nikon obviously has to make some move but is the technology there to really make a sufficient upgrade to a D400 given the new features set of the D7000? I doubt it at present but who knows what technology will be affordable and available six months or a year from now?

Best guess, and it's a sheer guesstimate is that we won't see a D400 for at least a year. In the interim the D7000 will likely sell well to those upgrading and to new users although at its price point the attraction to new users won't run as high as the D90 has IMHO.

I'm not upgrading from my D90 (and two D70s) to the D7000 and suspect the next upgrade will be the D7000's upgrade or the D400 and not before.

Am glad to see your patience and I don't think it's misplaced.

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Mon 20-Sep-10 01:28 PM
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#22. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 21


Toronto, CA
          

It depends on what you mean by 'significant additional features'. I strongly suspect that the D400 will be closer it feature set to the D7000 than the 300s was to the D90. The D400 will almost certainly use they same sensor, same metering system and a very similar AF unit (with more AF points/cross sensors).

Jason

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NDGraham Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jan 2007Tue 21-Sep-10 12:02 AM
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#27. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


Dorval (Montreal), CA
          

Just go for it, David! You've been too patient too long to wait any longer. You are about to be amazed if you are still using a D200 and do not know what a huge difference the D300 is in image quality. This D7000 looks to better the D300 if you look at the ton of postings about it so run don't walk to make your preorder now! (No, I am not employed by Nikon but it would seem that I am working for them since I spend so much of what I earn on their stuff!! )
Neill
Proud to be a Montreal Nikonian
http://picasaweb.google.com/NeillDGraham

  

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dkkruse Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Feb 2003Tue 21-Sep-10 02:39 AM
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#28. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 27
Tue 21-Sep-10 02:42 AM by dkkruse

Fairfax, US
          

I <i>probably</i> will, but I'll wait for the beast to actually show itself and go to a local brick and mortar and put it through its paces. I think it looks very compelling, but we'll see how it looks/feels/acts. Then I can put the money saved from buying the D400 towards some new glass!!!
I will be keeping the D200 mainly for my wife to use, but to also have a good trusty backup.

Thanks for all the input. I'm not ready to blindly preorder, but something says I'll be on this forum a lot.

Fun stuff!

www.davidkrusephoto.com

Fairfax, VA

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 21-Sep-10 03:54 AM
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#30. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 28


St Petersburg, RU
          

We have to stop and realize none of us has even touched a D7000 or D400/9000 so all is speculation on how the all important "feel" factor will be satisfied.
But one thing that strikes me is how hard it appears to be to draw clear distinctions between amateur and semi-pro cameras nowadays. All the features listed in various "gotta have" lists in a Semi-pro are covered in the cheaper models now except 2 connectors which actually are using a different connector, or a very low cost adapter. According to the specs, the D7000 is more pro than most pro costing units of 5 years ago.
Maybe there are sliding curves of some values for that increasingly blurred "pro" title like 8++ fps but even that is questionable since the D7000, being a rank amateur cheapie camera still has 16 fps to spare since its video mode allows high res stills to be retrieved from the 24 fps video function. Although I have yet to see a situation where 8fps was required and 6fps was unacceptable, or even needed. If someone is expecting a random interval between shots to capture the proper instant they are deluding themselves, a skilled photographer next to them who has timing and anticipation will beat them every time. In that regard a high FPS camera might be better described as a amateur unit for people trusting dumb luck before they learn the skills that say, separates skilled sports/action photographers from people who just happen to have an expensive camera.
It is also apparent from this tread that a lot of people assume that frequently used adjustments are buried in menus in cameras like a D90 and even the D7000, probably due to not having used one. I can't think of one frequently used adjustment that requires menu selections in the menu on a D7000. Same with the "pro" criteria of AF-On, which is easily programmed with a single menu selection for function assignment. Lots of people use that function on their current D90, yet most on this thread say it is missing and makes the the D7000 an amateur camera.
Maybe it is a weight criteria, cameras under 2 lbs are amateur and over are pro?
I am just curious about these arbitrary titles given to products, that to me as an outside observer think is more a concession to habit than function.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Tue 21-Sep-10 12:53 PM
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#31. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 30


Toronto, CA
          


>It is also apparent from this tread that a lot of people
>assume that frequently used adjustments are buried in menus in
>cameras like a D90 and even the D7000, probably due to not
>having used one. I can't think of one frequently used
>adjustment that requires menu selections in the menu on a
>D7000. Same with the "pro" criteria of AF-On, which
>is easily programmed with a single menu selection for function
>assignment. Lots of people use that function on their current
>D90, yet most on this thread say it is missing and makes the
>the D7000 an amateur camera.

Amen Stan. Also the D7000 now has the ability to save two banks of camera settings- these setting are then accessible on the mode dial.

I will also be programming my AE/AF lock button to be an AF-ON on the D7000 as I did on the D90 with great success.

Jason

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Lakeesh Registered since 02nd Aug 2009Wed 29-Sep-10 02:32 AM
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#36. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 30
Wed 29-Sep-10 02:33 AM by Lakeesh

US
          

When I used a D90, there were a few items that I always had to dig into the menus to change. Setting to ISO to Auto, or removing it from Auto, comes to mind. Changing AF from single point to dynamic. Changing the flash to commander mode. Changing the brightness of the LCD. Some of these were quie annoying.


>It is also apparent from this tread that a lot of people
>assume that frequently used adjustments are buried in menus in
>cameras like a D90 and even the D7000, probably due to not
>having used one. I can't think of one frequently used
>adjustment that requires menu selections in the menu on a
>D7000.


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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Wed 29-Sep-10 03:25 AM
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#37. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 36


Toronto, CA
          

>When I used a D90, there were a few items that I always had
>to dig into the menus to change. Setting to ISO to Auto, or
>removing it from Auto, comes to mind. Changing AF from single
>point to dynamic. Changing the flash to commander mode.
>Changing the brightness of the LCD. Some of these were quie
>annoying.

Most people set the Fcn button on the D90 to My Menu and then included all of these common menu items in the My Menu list. I can change my AF area in about 5 seconds on my D90 using this method.

Jason

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Lakeesh Registered since 02nd Aug 2009Wed 29-Sep-10 10:36 AM
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#38. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 37


US
          


>Most people set the Fcn button on the D90 to My Menu and then
>included all of these common menu items in the My Menu list.
>I can change my AF area in about 5 seconds on my D90 using
>this method.
>

That's one solution to the problem, but it is a problem and highlights a potential difference between a D90 and a D3. I say potential because I don't know whether the D3 has these same issues.

Btw, I prefer to set my Fn button to something else...creative light metering. But it doesn't take that long to bring up MyMenu.

On a positive note, the U1 and U2 dial settings on the D7000 should be quite usefule.


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mel_klim Silver Member Charter MemberWed 29-Sep-10 08:57 PM
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#41. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 38


Los Angeles, US
          

On the D300, I set my Fn button to Spot Metering. This allows me to switch metering without leaving the viewfinder and not miss that important shot

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 29-Sep-10 02:13 PM
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#39. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 36


Paignton, GB
          

>When I used a D90, there were a few items that I always had
>to dig into the menus to change. Setting to ISO to Auto, or
>removing it from Auto, comes to mind. Changing AF from single
>point to dynamic. Changing the flash to commander mode.
>Changing the brightness of the LCD. Some of these were quie
>annoying.

As far as I'm aware, all the items you list are also controlled via the menus in other Nikons like the D2, D3, D300 and D700, EXCEPT the AF-area Mode, which has a dedicated switch in those cameras.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Lakeesh Registered since 02nd Aug 2009Wed 29-Sep-10 02:21 PM
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#40. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 39


US
          

>>When I used a D90, there were a few items that I always
>had
>>to dig into the menus to change. Setting to ISO to Auto,
>or
>>removing it from Auto, comes to mind. Changing AF from
>single
>>point to dynamic. Changing the flash to commander mode.
>>Changing the brightness of the LCD. Some of these were
>quie
>>annoying.
>
>As far as I'm aware, all the items you list are also
>controlled via the menus in other Nikons like the D2, D3, D300
>and D700, EXCEPT the AF-area Mode, which has a dedicated
>switch in those cameras.

Thank you Brian. That is good to know. I am quite surprised Nikon does not put the Auto ISO on the ISO dial button, because it has really caused me heart-ache when I missed a shooting opportunity because the camera was stuck in Auto ISO. It could easily be a setting below ISO 200.

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Thu 30-Sep-10 06:06 AM
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#42. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 39


St Petersburg, RU
          

Brian, you are right. I think the distinction has really blurred between different classifications. Back in the film days the differences were materials and precision. There was a big difference between a top end camera and low end, they shared hardly anything.
When cameras become computers, the main feature differences are in software. Most consumer models of appliances or home electronics are identical inside, but have a few button differences between price/feature steps. For example I bought a el-cheapo microwave for the office. I took it apart, mostly because I do that with most things I get just from curiosity(even my D90) and found that the main PC board was the same as the higher end models. I added Defrost mode simply by adding the tact switch in the panel board. The model with the defrost mode was a step up by $50.
As cameras steps of performance become more high tech based and less on material/precision components, the distinctions will blur even more. The arguments justifying the D300 over the d90 were there, mainly AF system and legacy lenses. As we know, the legacy lens issue was simply a software function turned off intentionally to create a perceived value difference.
Now with the D7000, the justification debate points are getting further and further stretched beyond reason. You made an excellent point about menu selection that is really common for all cameras in the line, and it is considered a "feature" in a D3 and a major "liability" in a D7000 that places it in the rank amateur classification. As I suspected, the people who are so sure about a wide gulf between the classes of camera, have apparently not used the cameras they are denigrating.
I also suspect that my shooting is closer to the typical, in that fast changing of settings for everything I ever need is done while still having the eye to VF. In a typical 400-800 shot event evening, I will not have to go to the menu once. Maybe its because I have never used Auto modes so never have to switch into or out of them for ISO.
Based on how electronics based consumer items are designed now, it is safe to conclude that there will be a lot more shared by the D7000 and its larger cousin than different.
Reading the D300 forum here and on other sites well illustrates the lengths people go to justify their biases. Apparently the D7000 is perceived as a threat because there is more talk on those forums about how bad or amateur the D7000 is compared to their D300, then there are discussions about the positive aspects on D7000 forums. 80% of the point put forward are specious, like the assumed reliance on menus. Or frame rate. 6fps at 14 bit was good enough to be tauted as a feature in past cameras in the "pro" class until very recently. If someone can't do their work with 6, and it was a priority, they already have a D3s.
I think, based on sample images and features the D7000 has surpassed the D300 on every image related element. I would not spend the difference for an older set of technologies that actually performs at a lower level, and I guess that Nikon knows that only a small number would be sold after the D7000 is on shelves, so a new model, with a lot of effort put into thinking of what small added features could be used on forums as justification for some to spend $800-1000 more. A new set of arbitrary defining traits of what is pro and what is newbie will have to be created, probably by marketing rather than engineering. I have no idea what the new definition of must-haves might be but surely they will create something, maybe 3 slots, or 3.5 lbs will be the new criteria for pro, with anything less being for the unwashed masses. But whatever it is, it will not be seen in the resulting images. From D40 through D300s there is almost no detectable difference in images in intended viewing conditions. Nikon also knows that they will sell 20 times as many D7000 as D300 class cameras, and draw new waves of buyers of their first Nikon. That makes, in business terms, the D7000 much more "pro" and significant to Nikon's success than a D300 style camera.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Lakeesh Registered since 02nd Aug 2009Thu 30-Sep-10 06:43 AM
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#43. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 42


US
          

I am upgrading from a D90 to D7000, so I personally have no use for the feature set of a D300s, and I am quite excited about the new video capability.

However, I tend to disagree with much of what you said about D300s users simply feeling threatened by the D7000.

There are people who need faster fps and do not want to buy a D3s. Remember that the D300s with a grip has even faster fps and it's WAY cheaper than a D3s, and crucially, it has much more resolution. So many wildlife shooters (especially ones on a budget) will opt for a D300s over both a D3s (for obvious reasons) and a D7000 (for the fps). Plus the D300s' size (especially with the grip) for many people feels better than the D90/D7000, and some of the controls are undoubtedly better than the D90 We'll have to see about the D7000 controls. So the D300s continues to have a niche, not a big one, but why denigrate the Nikonians who prefer the D300s?

Btw, there are clear mechanical differences between high-end professional models and low-end models. To name just one: in the pro models, the shutter is spring-loaded; in the low-end ones it is electical.


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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Thu 30-Sep-10 01:31 PM
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#44. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 43
Thu 30-Sep-10 01:33 PM by briantilley

Toronto, CA
          

I agree with Stan. I don't think he is trying to denigrate people who prefer the 300s, I think he is responding to the numerous posts from 300/300s and d700/d3 users who are shrugging off the d7000 as an amateur's camera. It is one thing to point out it doesn't suit your needs, it is another to suggest that it is not capable of being considered a pros camera.

I also don't believe the ability to get 7-8 fps on a 300s with a grip (at an increased cost) is going to cause anyone to buy the 300s over a d7000 at a $400-500 premium given what appears to be a clear image quality advantage by the d7000 especially in the 1600-6400 ISO range (basing this now of the numerous test photos appearing on the internet). I can't really comment on the bigger body issue, I am in the camp that wants a smaller, lighter more potable camera. I carry my camera everywhere so bigger and heavier doesn't make any sense to me.

Jason

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mel_klim Silver Member Charter MemberWed 22-Sep-10 02:28 PM
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#33. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


Los Angeles, US
          

I have the D300 and my next and last camera will be the full frame, D700 with HD movie. Will keep the D300 and DX lenses for travel.

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N80 Silver Member Charter MemberTue 28-Sep-10 02:45 PM
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#34. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 33


Rock Hill, US
          

Interesting how varied the speculation is on when we'll see a D400. Three months to a year. 'We' obviously have no idea.

I'm also a long time D200 user; from the day it came out. The D7000 is very compelling based on my brief research but I'm in no hurry. No problem waiting another year. If the D400 has features I want and need over the D7000 then I'll get one. If not, I'll get the D7000.

And while it is probably silly for any of us to hold out for a D400 because we've labeled the D7000 as semi-semi-pro and we want a camera labeled as semi-pro, it is likely that the D400 _will_ have features over the D7000 that will justify, for many of us, the additional cost.

I have found the D200 to be amazingly robust and I'm pretty hard on my gear. For that reason alone a full magnesium body will probably keep me waiting on the D400. I have absolutely no objective proof that a full metal body will actually hold up better than a partial metal body or even all polycarbonate. But, if I go with what I know, my D200 has held up well and I'll stick with that formula.

The FX format does not interest me that much even though I have mostly 'full frame' lenses, so the D700 or its successor really aren't on my wish list.

George Barron

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lovemy8514 Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Oct 2007Tue 28-Sep-10 08:54 PM
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#35. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 34


Columbia, US
          

Nice post Barron,

I guarantee that if/when a replacement comes out for the D300s, there will be a difference in maximum frames per second between the 7000 and the D300s replacement. That alone might sway some people who shoot wildlife, sports or other fast action to purchase a D400 over the 7000. There is a good chance that they will have another new AF module also for the higher-end bodies. I doubt they would put the same AF module from the 7000 in the FX replacement models, but it is likely a new, high-end AF module would be shared between the FX bodies and D400. CAM 4800 or CAM 5200? Place your bets......

J a m e s
My Gallery

Using his camera as a pen, it is the photographer's job to tell a story: Each page authored in frozen moments of time.

All of my work is dedicated to my father, Terry Lee Geib (1943-2009)

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daswann Registered since 03rd Sep 2010Thu 30-Sep-10 03:53 PM
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#45. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 35


Toronto, CA
          

I think the D400 will be to the D7000 as the D300 was to the D90. I didn't see that much difference between the D300 and D90.

  

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N80 Silver Member Charter MemberThu 30-Sep-10 04:26 PM
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#46. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 45


Rock Hill, US
          

My B-I-L bought the D90 as his first DSLR coming from the F3. He was sufficiently frustrated by the smaller viewfinder and fiddly menus that he steeped up to the D300 almost immediately. And while the D7000 has a 100% viewfinder and a host of great features I think that daswann's analogy is correct in that the D7000 and the D90 will be analogous to their counterparts the D300 and D400. I disagree that there won't be much difference as there are clear and substantial differences between the D90 and D300 and history has proven that those differences were substantial enough to warrant many well informed, objective, thoughtful photographers to choose the D300 over the D400. I have no bought that the D400 will be positioned likewise.

George Barron

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lovemy8514 Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Oct 2007Fri 01-Oct-10 01:38 AM
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#47. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 46


Columbia, US
          

If history is repeated, the D400 (if one is released, and I'm guessing a direct D300s replacement will be released) will have an even more advanced AF system than the spectacular sounding D7000's, a more advanced TTL metering system, a brighter viewfinder (lower probability on this one), slightly faster start-up and shutter lag times, better weather sealing, more AF area mode selections, more cross-type sensors including more total sensors (Expeed II will take advantage of them!), and more customization options.

The price difference will most likely not justify going with the D400 over the D7000 for anyone but the advanced amateur or pro who tends to work in inclement weather and has a specific need for a specific upgraded feature.



J a m e s
My Gallery

Using his camera as a pen, it is the photographer's job to tell a story: Each page authored in frozen moments of time.

All of my work is dedicated to my father, Terry Lee Geib (1943-2009)

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Fri 01-Oct-10 01:13 PM
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#48. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 47


Toronto, CA
          

>If history is repeated, the D400 (if one is released, and I'm
>guessing a direct D300s replacement will be released) will
>have an even more advanced AF system than the spectacular
>sounding D7000's, a more advanced TTL metering system, a
>brighter viewfinder (lower probability on this one), slightly
>faster start-up and shutter lag times, better weather sealing,
>more AF area mode selections, more cross-type sensors
>including more total sensors (Expeed II will take advantage of
>them!), and more customization options.
>
>The price difference will most likely not justify going with
>the D400 over the D7000 for anyone but the advanced amateur or
>pro who tends to work in inclement weather and has a specific
>need for a specific upgraded feature.
>

You have me on the AF (although I wouldn't say more advanced, I think it will have more AF points and more cross hair sensors), possible 'better' weather sealing (d7000 has it but it's not clear yet how 'good' it is), and the start-up shutter lag time (but we are going to be talking about a difference of fractions of a millisecond).

I am however of the opinion that the metering system will not change. When Nikon released the D90 they opted to put in the older 420 pixel RGB meter despite having the 1005 pixel meter at their disposal. This was done likely to justify the price range. The meter in the D7000 is brand new and better than anything in any Nikon to date (presuming the increase in pixels actually improves metering). It seems unlikely that Nikon is going to re-re-design the meter over the next year or so.

I think the gap between the D7000 and whatever flagship DX gets released (likely in the next year as sales of the D300s drop like a stone) will be less than the gap between the D90 and D300s. People will still buy the 'high end' DX, but I believe this will be based more on ergonomics than any real advantage in technology.

Jason

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lovemy8514 Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Oct 2007Fri 01-Oct-10 09:41 PM
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#49. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 48


Columbia, US
          

You may be right Jason. Time will tell. I do know that if the price of the DX flagship is more than $500 to $600 more than the superb sounding D7000, it'd better have some tricks up it's sleeve! Built-in GPS anyone? Perhaps an upgraded LCD with 1.4 million pixels! Anyway, it's fun to speculate, and I'm just excited Nikon is providing us with such great products. The last couple of years has seen some spectacular equipment releases from Nikon.

J a m e s
My Gallery

Using his camera as a pen, it is the photographer's job to tell a story: Each page authored in frozen moments of time.

All of my work is dedicated to my father, Terry Lee Geib (1943-2009)

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N80 Silver Member Charter MemberSat 02-Oct-10 12:50 AM
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#50. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 49


Rock Hill, US
          

I think one of the advantages of being content with what one has (a D200 in my case) and not in any hurry to buy the next latest thing (which I am not) is that one can wait for the D400 and then compare it to the D7000 and make a decision based on objective knowledge of the two (verses speculation about one of them) and the subjective impressions of each after actually holding and using them both.

However, I disagree with the idea that somehow there will be a narrowing of the 'feature gap' between the D400 and the D7000 as compared to their previous counterparts. It might happen but I don't think Nikon has given us any reason to suspect it will. It would be a surprise and a disappointment.

George Barron

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Sat 02-Oct-10 02:09 AM
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#51. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 50
Sat 02-Oct-10 11:39 AM by JPJ

Toronto, CA
          

>However, I disagree with the idea that somehow there will be a
>narrowing of the 'feature gap' between the D400 and the D7000
>as compared to their previous counterparts. It might happen
>but I don't think Nikon has given us any reason to suspect it
>will. It would be a surprise and a disappointment.

Quite the opposite, Nikon has given us numerous reasons to believe that the feature gap will narrow as compared to the D90/D300s:

1. The meter - When Nikon released the D90 they re-hashed the old 420 pixel RGB meter despite having the 1005 RGB pixel meter available (in the D300 at the time). When the 300s was released a year later they put the 1005 pixel meter in it. With the D7000 Nikon has placed a brand new meter in it with 2x more pixels than any meter they currently produce. The likelihood of redesigning a brand new meter in the next year or two is nil. This will be the D400 meter, and the gap narrows.

2. AF - When Nikon released the D90 they put the old CAM1000 in it despite the fact that the CAM3500 was available (in the D300 at the time). When the 300s was released a year later they put the CAM3500 in it. With the D7000 Nikon has placed a brand new AF unit in it, the CAM4800. It may be that Nikon tweaks this unit for a D400 but they are not likely to completely redesign a brand new AF unit, it will fundamentally involve added crosshair sensors and more AF points. Let's say the new D400 has at least 51 points, perhaps more. Comparing the same AF unit with 39 points vs 51 or even 60-70 points is going to yield much closer results than comparing an older AF unit (the CAM1000) with only 1 crosshair sensor with the newer one, CAM3500 with 15 crosshair sensors. Again the gap narrows.

3. Legacy lens support: D90 didn't have it, D300/300s did. D7000 has it. The gap narrows.

4. Weather sealing/Build. The D90 had practically no weather sealing and no magnesium alloy. The D300/300s had both. The D7000 has both (although the magnesium alloy is only on the top/bottom plates). I suppose a D400 could have better weather sealing, but 'has it' vs. 'has it and it's better' makes the cameras closer than 'doesn't have it' vs. 'has it'.

5. Built in virtual horizon and intervalometer. The D90 had neither. The D300 had the VH. The D300s had both. The D7000 has both as will the D400.

6. Dual card slots. The D90 had one SD. The older D300 had one (and it was CF) but the D300s had two (one SD/one CF). The D7000 has two (both SD). Maybe the D400 has 3 (2 SD and one CF)? Nikon only continues to use CF card slots on 'pro' cameras because long time users still have tons of them. SD is better. The point of having two slots IMO is to have a back-up stored in case one of them fails. 2 vs any number is closer than 1 (no back-up possible) vs 2.

7. 100% viewfinder. D90 didn't have it. D300/300s did. The D7000 has it. Unless the D400 is going to have more than 100% in the viewfinder the gap will narrow.

I could go on. The point is this, Nikon's strategy with the D7000 is clearly different than when they put out the D90. They have stacked the D7000 with many of the best features in high end Nikon models and added new, never used before technology that is unlikely to change in the next few years.

I am also not sure why the narrowing gap is a 'disappointment'. Smaller, lighter and cheaper DX bodies are just what some pros want imo. The narrowing gap give us choice, choice is always good.



Jason

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sat 02-Oct-10 06:56 AM
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#52. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 51
Sat 02-Oct-10 07:05 AM by km6xz

St Petersburg, RU
          

Jason, you make a strong argument and it all makes sense, particularly in light of the statements on the forums. It is obvious the current D300 users think the lack of a 3 position rotary switch with on the front, a dedicated AF-on button, more weight and legacy CF cards is enough to prevent them from buying a D7000 so for D7000 IQ, Nikon, if they read the forums knows the D300 owners will spend and extra $500-1000 for those features alone. Why bother go to the trouble of a major redesign if the main elements of the D7000 can be used, adding those two switches and more weight will sell plenty of Dx x) and have people calling it "pro"? No one seems to come up with definite demands other than these few items so Nikon is going to be able to have a much higher margin on the D7000 "pro" version if they just leave it at what the users request.
I see only one real question mark. Where in the tree of evolution of AF is the 4800? If it is the new engine for the higher end, it was obviously designed with some configuration flexibility to add points. If it is designed as a lower end system, why did the D3100 not get it?
Just how good is it? One field tester claimed it was sure, fast and accurate, better than the D300 but not as fast as the D3s. The D300 version of the 3500 is not as fast either so the it is logical to assume the D7000's 4800 is better but purposely lowered in performance than its configuration in higher cost cameras...same chips, different programming to create an intentional step grade for marketing purposes. Like the no-metering on old lenses on the D90, there was no hardware restriction, it was simply programmed in for marketing purposes. With the D300 owners stating they do not care about a big step difference, only those mentioned cheap-to-add features, there might be much closer performance between the Dxxxx and D7000.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 02-Oct-10 11:08 AM
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#53. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 51


Paignton, GB
          

>6. Dual card slots. D90 had one. D300 and 300s had two.
>The D7000 has two.

The D300 has just a single CF card slot.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Sat 02-Oct-10 11:38 AM
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#54. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 53


Toronto, CA
          

>>6. Dual card slots. D90 had one. D300 and 300s had
>two.
>>The D7000 has two.
>
>The D300 has just a single CF card slot.


Quite right Brian, I have editing my message to correct the mistake. Thanks.

Jason

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N80 Silver Member Charter MemberSat 02-Oct-10 12:38 PM
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#55. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 54


Rock Hill, US
          

The obvious flaw in all of this reasoning is that the D400 is not out yet and presumes that there are not going to be any additional features to keep the gap wide enough to entice users to purchase one over the D7000.

George Barron

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F2AS Registered since 23rd Nov 2005Sat 02-Oct-10 01:07 PM
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#56. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 55


Washington, US
          

I think if I were waiting this long on the D300S successor to come out to upgrade, I would continue to wait a little longer. If not, it's sort of like a Honda Accord owner wondering if they should buy the latest Honda Civic that seems to have taken on a lot of the Accord's features, rather than wait for the next generation Accord to see what it offers, and then make a decision. I just moved from the D80 to the D300S late last year and probably haven't even realized 10% of it's potential yet, but I have to say I do like the D300S's size, build, features, and ergonomics quite a bit better than I did with my D80. Assuming there will be a D300S successor in the DX format (which I can't imagine there won't be), my guess is that there will be a comparable difference between it and the D7000.

Mike

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Sat 02-Oct-10 08:15 PM
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#57. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 55


Toronto, CA
          

It's not really a flaw as I was responding to the suggestion that Nikon's has done nothing to make us believe they are narrowing the gap between the top end of the DX range (at least the perceived top end) and the level just below it. We can only base an opinion on this based on current knowledge. Using that knowledge I argue we can in fact credibly state there is a narrowing.

Nikon has done two things to suggest this:

1. They are using their brand new technology in the so-called 'prosumer' model as opposed to using current, less sophisticated technology (The AF unit, meter and sensor for instance).

2. They are putting features in the so-called 'prosumer; model that normally only went in the 'pro' model: weather sealing, dual card slots, built in horizon level/intravolmeter, magnesium alloy construction.

Obviously we can't see into the future, but I strongly suspect that Stan is correct. Nikon doesn't have to do much to a D400 to sell it. Make it bigger (to give it a more 'pro appearance), give the 300/300s users their buttons/switches back, give the long time pros a CF card slot and allow 9 shot bracketing and they can tout it as the 'pro' model with all the same technology as the D7000.

Jason

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N80 Silver Member Charter MemberSun 03-Oct-10 12:50 PM
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#58. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 57


Rock Hill, US
          

>Obviously we can't see into the future, but I strongly suspect
>that Stan is correct. Nikon doesn't have to do much to a D400
>to sell it. Make it bigger (to give it a more 'pro
>appearance), give the 300/300s users their buttons/switches
>back, give the long time pros a CF card slot and allow 9 shot
>bracketing and they can tout it as the 'pro' model with all
>the same technology as the D7000.

I think you are selling Nikon short. You are also characterizing a significant segment of Nikon's market as form over function buyers. In my experience with Nikon this has never been the case. At each model interval there have been good, solid, intelligent reasons to stay within a certain 'class' of body. And the reasons have always been more than some feeling of superiority from buying a camera that was nothing but more expensive than the next model down.

We'll see, but as yet there is absolutely no reason to suspect that Nikon will release a D300 successor that will not be compelling to current D300 (and D200) owners for good, substantial reasons. And if they do, the D7000 will be a fabulous camera for us to upgrade to.

George Barron

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Sun 03-Oct-10 01:40 PM
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#60. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 58


Toronto, CA
          

>I think you are selling Nikon short. You are also
>characterizing a significant segment of Nikon's market as form
>over function buyers. In my experience with Nikon this has
>never been the case. At each model interval there have been
>good, solid, intelligent reasons to stay within a certain
>'class' of body. And the reasons have always been more than
>some feeling of superiority from buying a camera that was
>nothing but more expensive than the next model down.
>
>We'll see, but as yet there is absolutely no reason to suspect
>that Nikon will release a D300 successor that will not be
>compelling to current D300 (and D200) owners for good,
>substantial reasons. And if they do, the D7000 will be a
>fabulous camera for us to upgrade to.

Perhaps I am selling Nikon short, but I am basing this on history.

When the 300s was released (a full year after the D90 and 2 years after the D300) they essentially took the D300 and put the D90's video in it, added a SD card slot, 1 FPS (over the 300) and a couple buttons and sold tons of them for $500 more than a D300 and $800 more than a D90. These are not exactly revolutionary changes, they left most of the camera untouched including using an old sensor, AF unit and meter in the D300s. That is with 2 years to develop something new. It would be surprising if Nikon didn't replace the 300s within a year of the D7000 release as few people are going to buy a 300s in these circumstances (people are either buying a D7000 or waiting for a 300s replacement).

I also wouldn't categorize what I am saying as form OVER function, I would call it form AND function. Ergonomics can't be sold short, it is a very key issue for some people, and there is nothing wrong with that. I certainly look closely at it when I purchase all camera gear.

Jason

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 03-Oct-10 02:22 PM
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#61. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 60


Paignton, GB
          

>When the 300s was released (a full year after the D90 and 2
>years after the D300) they essentially took the D300 and put
>the D90's video in it, added a SD card slot, 1 FPS (over the
>300) and a couple buttons and sold tons of them for $500 more
>than a D300 and $800 more than a D90.

Perhaps a more meaningful assessment would be that the D300s launched at around the same price at which the D300 had launched, 2 years before.

Drawing conclusions about future products based on past events is fraught with danger, and arguing about whose conclusions are "right" is pretty pointless! I doubt that many people would have accurately predicted all the features of the D7000, six months before it was announced...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Sun 03-Oct-10 02:57 PM
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#62. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 61


Alberta, CA
          

To reenforce Brian's statement... A few months back I asked Thom Hogan whether he thought the D90 replacement (a camera for which he apparently knew some details in advance) might have AF fine tune? His response was he didn't think Nikon would stretch that far up the chain! (of course the D7000 does have this feature)

We don't know what Nikon is going to offer in the D400. Thom suspects a different sensor and a radical new AF system. I.e. An AF system much more different than a few more AF points compared to the D7000. He also predicts still a full year away. In absence of any facts of my own I read Thom religiously when plotting my own camera upgrade strategy. No one will be 100% correct but Thom stands a better chance than me

Best regards, SteveK

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 03-Oct-10 03:07 PM
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#63. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 62


Paignton, GB
          

>No one will be 100% correct but Thom stands a better chance than me

...and me

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Sun 03-Oct-10 07:46 PM
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#64. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 61


Toronto, CA
          


>Perhaps a more meaningful assessment would be that the D300s
>launched at around the same price at which the D300 had
>launched, 2 years before.

The point I was trying to convey was that Nikon has in the recent past put out a DX flagship model which did not bring much, if anything, new to the table and people bought it despite the price difference when it was released. My point really wasn't to suggest that the price point was unfair/excessive.

>Drawing conclusions about future products based on past events
>is fraught with danger, and arguing about whose conclusions
>are "right" is pretty pointless! I doubt that many
>people would have accurately predicted all the features of the
>D7000, six months before it was announced...

I agree with you in large part. However, I do think you can draw some conclusions from the feature set in the D7000 vs what Nikon has done with this market segment in the past.

Further, this thread started with this question: "D7000 or wait for D400??" Not sure how a discussion of that takes place without some debate about the possible differences that could exist between the D7000 and a D400.

Jason

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sun 03-Oct-10 09:48 PM
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#65. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 64


St Petersburg, RU
          

The D300 replacement, if a year away will really hurt Nikon in losing its strong position in the class. A year is getting to be a very long time in digital systems. By that time of course priorities will likely change. Now they are putting a lot of effort into video. In a year when the DSLR sized sensors will be finally put into real video cams, the interest and demand for DSLRs with high end video will stop, the form factor and lack of video industry standards compliance has meant these so far have been primarily marketing gimmicks rather than useful tools for videographers.

The lower value of some currencies have caused prices to escalate, so even though the D300s came out at a much higher price than the D300 was selling for at the time, it was really, in real dollar buying power, a slightly better buy than the original D300 which was priced in dollars worth more.
The D7000 is selling for less than the D90 when it was introduced if based on buying power of the currency.

Jason makes the point that D300s did not require any major improvement to cause a lot of people to upgrade. The difference between it and the original D300 is rather minor, compared to the radical shift in positioning of the D90 successor. As most trends in electronics point to smaller dimensions and weight, it might be Nikon's long term view is that the future of a large heavy DX camera is not likely to be long, and only being introduced to keep a 5-10% of its current customer base happy because of physical layout habits. Most development and sales are going to smaller boxes that perform at levels that only large and heavy were expected to in the past.
As the new wave of users come to buy Nikon size and weight will be more important and marketing can see that already in sales figures. Other brands are making inroads primarily over the size and weight issue. Cameras in the D3 class are important, not in sales/income (if it was so important supplies would be increased to meet demand)but rather as a flagship that casts a positive light on the whole brand due to being used by a good number of known and influential pros. They have no problem getting D3s's. That suggests that it really is not that profitable as a product as it is as a promotion tool.
The D3100, D5000, D90 and D7000 sales really are important since they greatly outsell the rest of the DSLR models. The D300s sale are already probably frozen, it in not even in the Amazon top 100 in sales. A new model to replace the essentially dead D300s sales if delayed much longer will concede the semi-pro body market to Canon and the D7000. To the new buyers of semi-pro style cameras the D7000 IS a semi pro camera every bit as much as the D300s was. Users on the D300 forum are falling all over themselves trying to come up with reasons their camera is better than the D7000 and all it comes down to is 1 switch and 1-2 buttons, all three of which simply use a different and just as or more efficient method of input. That is not a very convincing list for new buyers of that class of camera.

Those who want to wait surely should, what is the argument about? In the mean time the IQ and noise leader in available DX models is the D3100.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 03-Oct-10 10:23 PM
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#66. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 65


Paignton, GB
          

I think we may need to step back a little and make sure that, in stating our individual conclusions and preferences, we don't denigrate those who may take a different view.

To that end, let me just explain why I am not considering a D7000, whilst acknowledging that it looks like a fantastic camera...

I currently use a combination of D700 and D300. The D300 get used for wildlife and aviation shots, because of its greater pixel density, and for vacations and "walking around" with a 16-85mm DX lens, because of its lighter weight. I use both cameras side-by-side for shooting low-light theatrical productions. I have no use for video.

I'm looking to replace the D300 at some point in the next 12 months. For vacations, the D7000 would be ideal, but that's wouldn't be the camera's only use. For wildlife/aviation and theatre, I'd like a 12MP DX camera or an 18-20MP FX camera that can match the D700 in noise performance at up to ISO 6400, or even exceed it. The D7000 might be good enough at high-ISO, but unfortunately a few things rule it out. For me, the following things are not trivial...

1. Compatibility with the MB-D10 grip
2. Compatibility with the EN-EL3e battery
3. Similarity of control layout with the D700
4. At least one CF card slot
5. An AF-ON button and an AE-L/AF/L button
6. A method of saving four separate sets of Custom Settings (etc.)
7. An AF system that works at least as well as the D700 in low light
(the D7000 may be OK on this one, we don't know yet)

So, that's why I'm waiting to see what a D300s replacement might be like. These are my reasons, they may not apply to anyone else.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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enesunkie Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Apr 2008Mon 04-Oct-10 03:01 AM
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#67. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 66


Buffalo, US
          

Nikon changed the battery in the D7000 for some unstated reason(maybe longer life for video?). Would it not be likely that they will also make this change with the D400 and D800 for the same reason?

Kurt

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RRRoger Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his long history of demonstrated excellence and helping other members with equipment, technique and DSLR video in the true Nikonians spirit. Charter MemberFri 08-Oct-10 01:34 PM
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#77. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 67


Monterey Bay, US
          

>Nikon changed the battery in the D7000 for some unstated
>reason(maybe longer life for video?). Would it not be likely
>that they will also make this change with the D400 and D800
>for the same reason?

My understanding is that it not only has higher capacity but added contacts for battery safety reasons.

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Tue 05-Oct-10 03:46 PM
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#72. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 66


Toronto, CA
          


>1. Compatibility with the MB-D10 grip
>2. Compatibility with the EN-EL3e battery


Is it likely that anything Nikon releases will be compatible with either of these? I assumed, granted without giving it much thought, that the new, higher capacity battery, would be a given in any new camera coming from Nikon. The P7000, D3100 and the D7000 are all using a new battery (the P7000 and D3100 use the same new one, the D7000 of course has a higher capacity one). If nothing else a new battery would also mean a new grip in all likelihood.

I can see how this is a significant deterrent to some who have a collection of EN-EL3e batteries (they are not cheap). On the positive side the newer battery gives you nearly 2x the shots per charge so that would mean you would need 1/2 the number of batteries you currently have.

I have to say, the one disappointment for me in the D7000 is the grip. Cheaper third party grips that will be eventually released, notwithstanding, it is a pricey addition that doesn't increase performance. If you actually buy the Nikon grip and batteries for it, that is around $400.00, which does get you 1000 extra shots (give or take) and makes portrait orientation photo taking a tad easier for some. Still, it seems like Nikon purposely didn't use that extra power for anything functional so they could leave the 8-10 fps realm for the D400.

Jason

p.s. There appears to be reason to believe that the D7000 would focus as well if not better than cameras with the current 3500DX sensor. The loss of some AF points may have some impact, but the distribution of AF points for the 4800DX seems very similar to the 3500DX. Additionally, with 1300 additional CCD contrast sensing elements, low light focus should be spot on (no pun intended...well okay maybe a little).

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 05-Oct-10 04:30 PM
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#73. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 72


Paignton, GB
          


>>1. Compatibility with the MB-D10 grip
>>2. Compatibility with the EN-EL3e battery
>
>Is it likely that anything Nikon releases will be compatible
>with either of these? I assumed, granted without giving it
>much thought, that the new, higher capacity battery, would be
>a given in any new camera coming from Nikon.

No-one knows, really. One precedent was the introduction of the EN-EL3e battery with the D80 and D200 - in that case the new battery was compatible with older cameras (although the new cameras only work with the new battery).

Brian
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AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Mon 04-Oct-10 07:36 PM
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#68. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 65


Inverness, GB
          

Stan,

>Users on the D300 forum are falling all over themselves trying to come up with reasons their camera is better than the D7000...<

They are? I'm not seeing it myself. Please provide link(s).

Thanks,

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Tue 05-Oct-10 03:13 PM
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#71. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 68


St Petersburg, RU
          

Check out DPR for one, thread after thread last week. Even on Nikonians to a lesser degree.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 04-Oct-10 09:13 PM
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#69. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 65
Tue 05-Oct-10 12:53 AM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

“Those who want to wait surely should, what is the argument about?”

Yes, Stan ... What is the argument about? You seem to be the only one arguing.

Others are stating their own needs, their own wants and telling us what is important the them. You on the other hand are telling us that all of those things are either trivial, useless or ego driven. You have made several general statements in the last couple of weeks, in a couple different threads, that could be taken as insulting to various groups people.

Please remember that we as a group we are involved in a wide range of photographic disciplines and that each of us has different needs. The tools needed by someone who shoots people in night clubs are significantly different then the tools needed by a wildlife photographer and completely different tool sets are needed by the studio photographer, the photo journalist, the macro shooter, the sports photographer and even grandma taking family pictures.

Some people, even some pros, will find that the D7000 will have everything they need but for others many of those small differences that you trivialize can make a meaningful difference in their work.

For me the only advantage of the D7000 over what I already have would be the better high ISO performance but for me that advantage is overshadowed by a buffer that only holds 11 shots (12 bit compressed NEF) wile I can now get 19 shots with my D300s. That makes a big difference in the type of action that I shoot and no this is not “spray and pray” photography (That you made a derogatory comment about in another thread.) where one shoots as fast as possible hoping to get that one good shot. I am capturing fairly long, very fast and unpredictable action sequences and I want to capture as much of the sequence as possible.

All I am saying is lets try to respect each others needs and opinions. Let Nikon decide where each body falls in the line up and how they are marketed.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

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MstrBones Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Dec 2005Sun 03-Oct-10 01:16 PM
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#59. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0


AW
          

Dave,

I have a D200, and until I read more about the D7000, beyond the very prelimnary reviews that are out, I am going to wait. It does look very nice.

I can say, however, I love the control layout of the D200/300/700 series for their ease of use, so that is definitely a factor. I will want to fondle a D7000 in a store before I buy one.

""

  

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Tue 05-Oct-10 12:21 AM
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#70. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 05-Oct-10 12:24 AM by KnightPhoto

Alberta, CA
          

Today's entry at Thom's blog tackled the D400 question :
Www.bythom.com

He says D400 will come due to filling an otherwise large gap in the pricing of Nikon's camera lineup. Curiously he is now backing away from it necessarily needing a different sensor than the D7000.

Two unanswerable questions:
- is the radical new D4 autofocus system ready? in which case, don't wait for the D4 to be ready, slap the AF together with the D7000 sensor and bring on the D400
- is the timing and market positioning right to build the D400 with an integrated grip and trick it out with full pro-body treatment? I would like a great-big-buffer for the reason Dave elucidates.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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lovemy8514 Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Oct 2007Wed 06-Oct-10 02:49 PM
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#74. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 70


Columbia, US
          

The autofocus system was on of my main points previously posted. The D7000 has a brand new system. The replacement for the D700/D3(x) will not be the same autofocus system in my opinion. This means Nikon already (likely) has two brand new systems (at least in development, if not already finalized). Is the D300s replacement more likely to share the same auto-focus system as the D7000 or a higher-end model? If history is precidence, the D300s replacement will have a different, new autofocus module not yet released and not shared by the D7000. Obviously mere speculation at this point.

J a m e s
My Gallery

Using his camera as a pen, it is the photographer's job to tell a story: Each page authored in frozen moments of time.

All of my work is dedicated to my father, Terry Lee Geib (1943-2009)

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Bob Chadwick Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jan 2006Wed 06-Oct-10 03:27 PM
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#75. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 74


Norcross, US
          

>if history is precidence, the D300s replacement will have a
>different, new autofocus module not yet released and not
>shared by the D7000. Obviously mere speculation at this
>point.

I agree with your thoughts here. A lot of the discussion has been on what the D300 replacement will have on top of what the D7000 offers. I think your thoughts are more on point in that if history is any indication the camera will be a D4 minus rather than a D700 plus.

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Wed 06-Oct-10 05:27 PM
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#76. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 74


Toronto, CA
          

>The autofocus system was on of my main points previously
>posted. The D7000 has a brand new system. The replacement for
>the D700/D3(x) will not be the same autofocus system in my
>opinion. This means Nikon already (likely) has two brand new
>systems (at least in development, if not already finalized).
>Is the D300s replacement more likely to share the same
>auto-focus system as the D7000 or a higher-end model? If
>history is precidence, the D300s replacement will have a
>different, new autofocus module not yet released and not
>shared by the D7000. Obviously mere speculation at this
>point.

This would make complete sense if the D7000 was intended to occupy the position of the D90 in Nikon's food chain, but according to Nikon that is not the case, it is to seated higher up. Now of course this may be marketing mumbo jumbo to try and keep the D90 moving and sell the D7000 as 'semi-pro', but it is entirely possible that Nikon has put features in the D7000 that will be used in the 'pro' marketed cameras.

Nikon's AF system is already much better than Canon's imo, it is almost mind boggling to consider it getting even better. That would be fantastic. If they put it in a DX camera that would be equally fantastic as it would again show Nikon's commitment to DX. I still think that the D400 will have a version of the 4800dx, but this is also speculation.

Jason

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Ramesses Registered since 29th Mar 2007Fri 08-Oct-10 07:00 PM
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#79. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 08-Oct-10 07:03 PM by Ramesses

US
          

Hi All:

We are always talking about “Pro” lenses and cameras vs “Semi-Pro” or even “Amateurs Ones.” To me, that does not make much sense, because a true “Pro” photographer has a completely different perspective on products. If a “Pro” turns a million dollars from a $100,000 camera, he will buy that camera on the spot. On the other hand, if a “Pro” turns $50,000 dollars from a $200 lens, he will buy that lens and mount it on the $100,000 body. What if the $200 lens is not built to withstand the use and abuse that a “Pro” gives a lens? He will buy 10 of them, if he has to. For a "Pro," a "Pro" camera and lens is all about ROI (Return on investment.)

Best regards,

Hektor

A Nikonian in Kemet

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Fri 08-Oct-10 08:00 PM
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#80. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 79


Toronto, CA
          

>Hi All:
>
>We are always talking about “Pro” lenses and cameras vs
>“Semi-Pro” or even “Amateurs Ones.” To me, that does not make
>much sense, because a true “Pro” photographer has a completely
>different perspective on products. If a “Pro” turns a million
>dollars from a $100,000 camera, he will buy that camera on the
>spot. On the other hand, if a “Pro” turns $50,000 dollars
>from a $200 lens, he will buy that lens and mount it on the
>$100,000 body. What if the $200 lens is not built to
>withstand the use and abuse that a “Pro” gives a lens? He
>will buy 10 of them, if he has to. For a "Pro," a
>"Pro" camera and lens is all about ROI (Return on
>investment.)
>
>Best regards,
>
>Hektor
>

For me these are mainly marketing terms, 'pro' means you can justify charging more money, despite little to no improvement in image quality.

Jason

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Ramesses Registered since 29th Mar 2007Fri 08-Oct-10 09:44 PM
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#81. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 80


US
          

Hi Jason:

This reminds me of many, but many years ago, when I bought my first true and serious stereo system. The turn table at the time, for serious stereo aficionados, was the Thorens with the Shure SME arm. It was ~ $1,000 in the early 70’s and the “Pros” choice. The main advantage for the turntable it was that it started at 33 1/3 RPMs almost instantaneously and stopped on a dime. For a DJ, who had the master records with all the hit songs on the table, that feature was a must. For me, it was a waste of money.

For a “Pro” time is money. He might have a shoot in morning, a wedding in the afternoon, and a studio shoot in the evening. In addition, he might be paying an assistant or two and a model by the hour. He does not have the time to many-cuddle his cameras and lenses, like I do. Therefore, a camera that is built like a tank is a must. For me…?

Best regards,

Hektor

A Nikonian in Kemet

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My Photo Album: Hektors Photos

  

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Bull Camera Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Apr 2008Sat 09-Oct-10 12:45 PM
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#82. "RE: D7000 or wait for D400??"
In response to Reply # 81


Winston-Salem, US
          

Very good speculation. The fact remains, I shoot a D3 and D3s because I need the low light, speed and FPS capability. NOTHING compares to the D3s for what I have to shoot. But I can't wait for my D7000 to arrive. For normal lighting conditions I wont have to carry my tank for 8 hours at a time.

Bull Camera

  

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