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Subject: "Not understanding AF-ON" Previous topic | Next topic
Steve6344 Silver Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012Mon 11-Feb-13 02:19 PM
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"Not understanding AF-ON"


Aventura, US
          

I programmed the AE-L AF-L button ro be AF-ON.

Two issues/questions.
1. When I press the AE-L/AF-L button autofucus works. The green circle in the viewfinder stays on as long as I keep my finger on the button.If I take my finger off the button the green circle disappears,- I assume focus is still locked (or do I have to keep my finger on the button?). Is focus locked until I press the shutter release button?

2. Second Scenario:If I press the shutter release button halfway without touching the
AE-L AF-L button, focussing does not seem to occur. I don't understand this. Just because I programmed the AE-L AF-L button to be AF-ON it doesn't seem to me that the normal focussing method would be disabled. I'm sure I'm missing something or doing something wrong.

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
jbloom Gold Member
11th Feb 2013
1
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
Steve6344 Silver Member
11th Feb 2013
2
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
EZRDRZ
15th Feb 2013
3
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
Bravozulu Silver Member
15th Feb 2013
4
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
km6xz Moderator
16th Feb 2013
5
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
Steve6344 Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
7
     Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
km6xz Moderator
16th Feb 2013
17
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
SheriB Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
6
Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
Gamecocks Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
8
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briantilley Moderator
16th Feb 2013
9
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MasterDabber Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
10
     Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
briantilley Moderator
16th Feb 2013
11
          Reply message RE: Not understanding AF-ON
MasterDabber Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
12
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briantilley Moderator
16th Feb 2013
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MasterDabber Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
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km6xz Moderator
16th Feb 2013
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MasterDabber Silver Member
17th Feb 2013
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km6xz Moderator
17th Feb 2013
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MasterDabber Silver Member
17th Feb 2013
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WillisC Silver Member
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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Mon 11-Feb-13 02:47 PM
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#1. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 0


Wethersfield, US
          

1. Yes, if by "still locked" you mean that the lens focusing isn't changed once you release the AE-L/AF-L button. If you half-press the shutter button, the green dot should reappear, unless you have shifted the camera so the target under the AF point is not in focus, in which case you'll get an out-of-focus arrow.

Oh, and focus is not locked "until I press the shutter release button," it is locked even after you press the shutter button. It is locked until you press the AE-L/AF-L button again.

Basically, pressing the AE-L/AF-L button in AF-ON mode replaces the half-press of the shutter button for activating autofocus. Everything that would normally happen with focus when you have the shutter button half pressed instead happens when you have the AE-L/AF-L button pressed. (Note that what happens to exposure is another matter. The behavior of the shutter button with exposure isn't affected by pressing AF-ON.)

2. The expectation is that the reason you assign the AE-L/AF-L button to AF-ON is because you want to decouple the shutter button from focusing altogether. This is useful when you want to take multiple shots without disturbing focus. While there are use cases for having both AF-ON and shutter-button AF, they are less common. Nikon bodies that have a separate AF-ON button allow you to select whether to have the shutter-button focus disabled or not, but I don't think bodies that lack an AF-ON button allow both AF-ON and shutter-button focus.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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Steve6344 Silver Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012Mon 11-Feb-13 03:38 PM
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#2. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 1


Aventura, US
          

Thank you. That is a clear explanation.

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EZRDRZ Registered since 20th Jan 2013Fri 15-Feb-13 09:26 PM
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#3. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 15-Feb-13 09:30 PM by EZRDRZ

GB
          

I agree with other comment, but why do you disable half press focus? I have to be honest for me the focus system is briliant, at least on my D7K... the settings I use are either manual focus or single point (AF-S) set where I need it to be. So I am more in control of focus most of the time. I also cant imagine being with out AE-L (Exposure lock)? I either use manual exposure or Aperture priority most of the time also. Never anything else really.

All the above said I do find the constant (AE-C, 39 point)to be fascinating. and quite efficiant photographing- for example birds on a pond swimming. Overall I feel it'S been worth reading through the booklet to familiarise with the complex AF- focusing options. Just thoughts and comments to add.
Regards

  

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Bravozulu Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jun 2012Fri 15-Feb-13 10:42 PM
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#4. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 3


Los Angeles, US
          

If you scan through old posts, many of them deal with AF. It is a complicated subject, not helped by Nikon's squirrelly terminology, and the fact that the camera has two independent sensor systems to control focus.

But it is easy to nail down reasons why people transfer focus initiation from the shutter button to the AE/AF-L button. Ergonomics. Pure and simple. By setting AE/AF to AF-On you also expand what the button does. Press & Release. You achieve focus and it is locked in.

Great for reframing a scene before you actually take the shot. This assumes the scene doesn't wiggle around.

But, alternatively, if you Press & Hold, you initiate continuous autofocus. It will follow moving subjects. The first few Custom Settings in the menus list your options here.

So, by having the so-called back-button focus set, you double the choices for kind of focus. By the way, when you reset your controls to this button configuration, you will learn it in about 4 minutes. It is that intuitive.

Using the default set up poses the danger of half pressing the shutter and then firing off a shot you aren't ready for. Worse if you have a flash set to go, because of battery drain and the startle effect on your subjects.

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sat 16-Feb-13 07:46 AM
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#5. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 0


St Petersburg, RU
          

Both the AF-On function and the default function of AE-L/AF-L button are very useful and most experienced photographers use one, the other or both.
When you switch the rear button to AF-On, as others have correctly stated, the AF operation is decoupled from the shutter release. That might seen awkward at first for users but after an hour, it becomes intuitive and automatic. The reasons are many why some prefer to separate AF function from the shutter release. The main one is for locking AF where you want to and pressing the shutter when you want without refocusing.
As an example of where this it helpful. Say there is a group of people you are shooting, and as usual, they will often naturally line up where the people on the ends will be closer to you than the person in the center of the group. If you used the default use of AF, composing on the center person means that person will be in focus and the outer people might not be. If the center person is on the focal plane, a little in front and a little in back of him will be in focus. To get everyone in focus, ideally you would want to focus on the person who is mid way between the most distant and closest persons, so all will be within the depth of field. If you are using the 1/2 press AF control, you would have to select a side focus point or crop later to center the group. An easier why is to use AF-On. Pressing the button focusing on what you want, in this case the person at mid depth, left go of the button and simply frame the scene as you wish and press the shutter release. No additional AF updates will occur when you do not have the AF-On button pressed.
Another situation; you are shooting some still scene, say a group of people so you want AF-S mode and take a shot, but suddenly a new scene that appeals to you, say, they are walking away but you are in AF-S mode that is optimum for still subjects but not useful for tracking movement. You have the choice of trying to AF and release on moving subjects or stopping and switching to the more effective AF-C mode.
That is simple with AF-on. Leave the camera in AF-C all the time. For still subjects, focus then release the AF-On button. It will be locked on the last AF capture point, just like AF-S mode. When something moves that you want to track and capture, just press AF-On and hold it on with your thumb for continuous updating AF up to and during your triggering the shutter release. AF will have been updating right up to capture. The only downside is AF Assist lighting does not function in any but AF-S mode. These cameras are pretty darn good in low light AF however so that is seldom needed. In both of these cases, having the flexibility to AF and lock whenever you choose becomes a feature that expands your shooting control options, in a simple almost automatic reflex way.

Changing the very often used rear button to AF-On, removes another very useful function, AE-L Exposure lock. I solve this by programming the Fn button the front of the camera to assume the AE-L function. When I need the metering to be independent of a focus target, a tap of the Fn button with my middle finger locks the exposure setting while I recompose. The location of the Fn makes more sense than in the more pro bodies like the D300s D700, D800 D4 which places dedicated AE-L/AF-L and AF-On buttons next to each other on the rear. With the AE-L function accessible with the middle finger, AF-On controlled by the thumb and index finger on the shutter release, all the important actions can be control at the same time without moving the camera or hand position, and all at the same time.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Steve6344 Silver Member Nikonian since 31st Jul 2012Sat 16-Feb-13 11:34 AM
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#7. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 5


Aventura, US
          

First of all, I read a lot of posts in these forums but whenever I see you reply I pay extra attention because the quality of the information you provide is excellent and I generally learn something. You put a lot of thought and time into helping us Nikonians. I would like you to know that I appreciate your being here.

One question about your answer. If you program the AE-L button to lock exposure, does that also decouple the shutter release from doing exposure?

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sat 16-Feb-13 10:35 PM
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#17. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 7


St Petersburg, RU
          

Thank you for your kind comments.
Yes, once locked, Exposure is not resampled by the shutter release button. That is a key feature that once you get used to it, greatly expandd composition and exposure options.
There are settings for its use that adds to its flexibility. You can set the E-lock to clear when the shutter is released or to stay locked until you press the AE-L button again. If I am doing a series of same scene shots, such as a portrait, spot metering on the brightest part of the face, if I want to emphasis shadows, and lock exposure, and take a series with different composition for each and the exposure settings will remain the same for each.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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SheriB Silver Member Awarded for sharing her exceptional images and details of rural farm life. Nikonian since 11th Sep 2010Sat 16-Feb-13 10:12 AM
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#6. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

No one has mentioned VR.
My understanding is that even using back button focus, you must half depress the shutter button to activate VR in the lenses that have it. Is this correct or am I misinformed....aka confused ...?

Sheri Becker

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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Sat 16-Feb-13 11:49 AM
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#8. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 6


Joanna, US
          

You are correct in that the shutter must be pressed to start VR.

John

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 16-Feb-13 12:55 PM
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#9. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 6


Paignton, GB
          

That is correct for the D7000, but newer Nikons like the D800 and D4 have a different set-up, whereby VR also activates when you press the AF-ON button to focus.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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MasterDabber Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Dec 2005Sat 16-Feb-13 01:36 PM
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#10. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 9


Camberley, GB
          

So if I set the AE-L/AF-L button for AF-ON, have a VR lens with VR turned, focus, compose, press shutter release... VR won't activate?
Derek

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 16-Feb-13 02:12 PM
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#11. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 10


Paignton, GB
          

On the D7000, VR only activates when you half-press the shutter release, but it does so whatever AF activation method you use.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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MasterDabber Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Dec 2005Sat 16-Feb-13 02:20 PM
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#12. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 11


Camberley, GB
          

Thanks Brian. So let me sure about this...
I focus using the AF-ON programmed AE-L/AF-L button.
I must then half-press the shutter release before finally fully depressing the shutter release. If I do that VR will operate? Is that correct?
As a side question. If I do a bracketing burst, provided I've initially half-pressed the shutter release (after using AF-ON focusing) all three shots will operate VR?
Derek

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 16-Feb-13 02:34 PM
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#13. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 12


Paignton, GB
          

>If I do that VR will operate? Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct.

>As a side question. If I do a bracketing burst, provided I've
>initially half-pressed the shutter release (after using AF-ON
>focusing) all three shots will operate VR?

VR will start when you half-press the shutter release, and if you are in Continuous Mode and keep the shutter button depressed for the duration of all three shots, then yes, VR will stay active. If you release the shutter button between shots, VR will stop and will only re-activate when you press the shutter release for the next shot.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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MasterDabber Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Dec 2005Sat 16-Feb-13 04:02 PM
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#14. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 13


Camberley, GB
          

Thank you so much Brian. I appreciate your help.
I use Bracketing Burst assigned to the Fn button so that should work out fine. I just need to remember to half-press the shutter release before I fire off the burst. I haven't been consciously doing that up until now.
Thanks again, really appreciated.

Derek

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sat 16-Feb-13 10:27 PM
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#16. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 14


St Petersburg, RU
          

One point of VR is settling time. Many on the forum say it takes some time but from tests I've have done and my understanding of(and designing) servo systems, the settling time in one or two cycles of the modulated element, or about 1/250 of a second, is very fast. Pressing the shutter release fully will briefly start the VR and it will continue when the next switch contact is made when the shutter is triggered. You should not see a difference in focus between pausing at 1/2 press and using a full press without any delay at the 1/2 press position.

The new operation of VR with AF-On is used to stabilize the VF image and AF sub-mirror on the D600, 800 and D4. Some complain about the added battery drain but I like the steady image in the VF and appreciate the change.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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MasterDabber Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Dec 2005Sun 17-Feb-13 04:17 PM
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#19. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 16


Camberley, GB
          

OK Stan. Sorry to revisit this but, if I've understood you correctly, you are saying that there is no need to half-press the shutter release with the D7000. Because of the fast reaction of the settling time a full depression of the shutter release (after focus has been achieved via AF-ON function) is sufficient to activate VR both for a single shot or for a series of Bracketing Burst.

If I have understood correctly, seems to contradict some of the earlier posts on this aspect. I guess I'm now slightly confused.
Tbh, I hadn't even thought that VR activation might be a problem until I read this thread, hence my somewhat pedantic questions... sorry to be a pain.

Derek

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Sun 17-Feb-13 05:17 PM
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#20. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 19


St Petersburg, RU
          

That has been talked about a lot but few people have tested it. The actual vibration compensation is vary fast, if was not low mass and responsive it would not be able to counter the minute shake movement that it does so well.
As far aa single shot, from my tests and understanding how servos work, there is no problem with the speed you press the shutter release. As for burst, I have not tested it but the VR would be the least of the problems in getting well focused images of moving subject since a good deal of the time between shots in a burst is blackout, for your VF and for the metering and focusing sensor. It relies on predictive focusing where the camera guesses where the focus point will be based on the speed and direction, plus color of the subject. Newer cameras with higher res metering sensors are better at this tracking during blackout. That is one of the key advances in the D4/D800 with metering sensor with 91k sense elements.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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MasterDabber Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Dec 2005Sun 17-Feb-13 06:21 PM
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#21. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 16


Camberley, GB
          

Thanks Stan. The context of the Bracketing Burst for me is...

To take 3 bracketed images of a still scene... typically architectural or scenic ... to give me the possibility of creating a HDR image. In particular inside low light buildings (like churches or historic buildings) where the use of a tripod is often either forbidden or inappropriate. As a result I try and keep shutter speed low (although I could bump up the ISO more) and bracket 3 handheld images. So far I've been extremely pleased with the results of doing things this way.
I've had VR turned on (although I've seen arguments that VR for HDRs is not good practice. This thread haas thrown up the possibility that I may not have been activating VR at all. Hence all my questions... to the OP, sorry for any thread hijack.
Derek

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WillisC Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Jan 2012Sat 16-Feb-13 06:10 PM
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#15. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 9


Aurora, CO, US
          

The D600 also activates VR with the rear button AF-ON setup.

For the OP, take note that U1 and U2 can also be used to try out features like the rear AF-ON setting, while keeping your usual settings intact and instantly available. I did this with the rear button AF-ON, (and Auto-ISO).

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SheriB Silver Member Awarded for sharing her exceptional images and details of rural farm life. Nikonian since 11th Sep 2010Sun 17-Feb-13 10:22 AM
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#18. "RE: Not understanding AF-ON"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

Ok. So if I ever upgrade from my 300s or 700 I will keep that in mind.

Sheri Becker

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