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RWA0655 Registered since 15th Nov 2010Fri 19-Nov-10 06:35 PM
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"D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
Fri 19-Nov-10 06:48 PM by RWA0655

US
          

I received my D7000 today. When checking video at ISO 200, I found 8 hot pixels (sensels?). The problem is far worse at ISO 1600. The bright dots are annoying enough to ruin the video.

I had hoped that initial reports of sensor problems would be unfounded, but the issue is apparently real and is serious enough to warrant discussion.

I should have a replacement camera tomorrow and will report back on whether or not it has a similar problem.

This camera also had a hot pixel on the live view screen, but I would have been willing to live with that.

For those curious about placement, the defects are predominantly located in the upper and lower left quadrants about 50% left of center with a couple more at about 75% along the X axis to the right of center. They display as bright, non-moving dots. High ISO NR and long exposure NR have no effect on them. Decreasing ISO to 100 also has no effect. The stuck sensels show up when recording against both bright and dark backgrounds.

I remain hopeful that Nikon will release firmware to allow in-camera remapping.

Is anyone else seeing similar issues?

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
DrBrett Silver Member
19th Nov 2010
1
Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
RWA0655
19th Nov 2010
2
     Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
dhmiller Silver Member
20th Nov 2010
3
     Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
DsrtVW Gold Member
20th Nov 2010
4
          Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
KnightPhoto Gold Member
20th Nov 2010
7
     Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
DrBrett Silver Member
20th Nov 2010
5
          Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
KnightPhoto Gold Member
20th Nov 2010
6
               Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
Robman3
20th Nov 2010
8
                    Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
RWA0655
21st Nov 2010
9
                         Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
JPJ Silver Member
25th Nov 2010
10
                              Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
RWA0655
25th Nov 2010
11
                                   Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
JPJ Silver Member
25th Nov 2010
12
                                        Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
RWA0655
25th Nov 2010
13
                                             Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
Mike Buckley
26th Nov 2010
14
                                                  Reply message RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True
KnightPhoto Gold Member
29th Nov 2010
15

DrBrett Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Apr 2006Fri 19-Nov-10 06:44 PM
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#1. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 0


Vancouver, CA
          

There's another current thread discussing this issue:

http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=329&topic_id=1984&mesg_id=1984&page=

Brett

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RWA0655 Registered since 15th Nov 2010Fri 19-Nov-10 07:00 PM
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#2. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 1
Fri 19-Nov-10 10:04 PM by RWA0655

US
          

I could have posted under that thread, but I am specifically stating that the problem is real rather than hyperbole - at least for some unknown percentage of cameras. It seemed counter-intuitive to post this under the heading of "No HOT Pixels - Woo-Who!". If I am wrong, I apologize and can try to delete the thread but I don't see a way to do that.

Edit:
I should note that I'm not much of a pixel peeper and that the problem has to be glaringly obvious and annoying to bother me.

I called Nikon support twice. On the first call I was informed that the camera performs no error correction when in Live View mode, that Nikon doesn't think bright dots in HD video is a problem, that no one else has ever experienced this, and that they have no solution.

On the second call, the person simply stated that Nikon has received a lot of calls about this, that they don't yet have a solution, that they are actively working on it, and that they will email me when they have a solution.

I don't know which person to believe. I guess I should call a few more times and average the results...

  

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dhmiller Silver Member Nikonian since 19th May 2009Sat 20-Nov-10 03:43 AM
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#3. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

I've also posted about hot pixels in video files and have notified both Nikon and my dealer. Waiting for more stock to arrive locally then will try a second camera.
Not a good situation.
DM

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DsrtVW Gold Member Nikonian since 16th Dec 2007Sat 20-Nov-10 04:51 AM
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#4. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

Actually did more video today that I have since I bought the camera. I was able to procure an extra battery. I have not noticed this problem.
Does video record quality make a difference?

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Sat 20-Nov-10 03:15 PM
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#7. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 4


Alberta, CA
          

You pose an interesting point. I have only shot in 720P highest quality (and not tried 1080P or any other quality setting).

If I switch to 1080P should the net result be that my row/columns where my two hot pixel exist are not selected for inclusion (assumption these are hardware hot pixels but they may not be).

I would like to hear if anyone with hot pixels has changed resolution and/or quality and whether this made a difference. I will try it but am in process of rebuilding my wife's computer this weekend.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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DrBrett Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Apr 2006Sat 20-Nov-10 06:21 AM
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#5. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 2


Vancouver, CA
          

>I could have posted under that thread, but I am specifically
>stating that the problem is real rather than hyperbole - at
>least for some unknown percentage of cameras.

I was pointing out that, in answer to "Is anyone else seeing similar issues?", some people have seen similar issues (myself included) and shared their stories in that post. Sorry if I was unclear.

My feelings about the hot pixels are similar to yours - only a couple of really bright pixels in my D7000, and I'm still uncertain about what to do.

Brett

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Sat 20-Nov-10 02:41 PM
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#6. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 5
Sat 20-Nov-10 03:04 PM by KnightPhoto

Alberta, CA
          

Ok then I'm bringing my same question over to this thread

I propose a question: could this phenomena be a software problem? In which case we could expect a firmware fix

I have two hot/stuck pixels in video mode evident when I pan because they stay in place and therefore stand out from the background.

Here's my question - the still photo sensor pixel dimensions FAR exceed the pixel dimensions of the video. Therefore there is a "downsizing/compression" going on to get down to 1080P or in my case I have been shooting even smaller at 720P.

Then there is the Second compression using AVCHD to save space in storage.

With all that compression going on what are the chances these are some kind of error in the software performing these size reductions. Somehow the camera is choosing a row of pixels to include in the video, it cannot be using all rows of pixels because there are more rows in the still photo than in the video. The same goes for columns of pixels. In an ideal world the camera would take several input rows and average them down to a single output row - kind of a pixel binning approach. But I suspect this is not how it happens but I could be wrong (big time).

SO how does the software choose what pixels to include in the video. And does this choice-method make video MUCH MORE prone to hot pixels. For example does the still photo de-mosaic process average out hot pixels so we never see them in our stills (de-mosaic is the interpolation process that changes the count of electrons black and white image into a colour image). But in video if we are only grabbing content of widely separated sensor rows (in comparison to stills) and therefore the de-mosaic math that occurs in all of our cameras (still and video) does not have the inherent ability to smooth out the hot pixels.

Another way of stating the same thing: is all the math that is going on for video MAGNIFYING hot pixels into a much greater apparent effect. I find it hard to believe a single stuck pixel (well, I have two) would be as noticeable as they are. It looks more like 20 stuck pixels clumped together.

It just seems odd to me that with all these sensor pixels being thrown away what are the chances these same two hot pixels are never getting thrown away and are always present in each frame of my video?

Doesn't a hardware hot pixel always showing in a video seem very unlikely? Whereas if it's a software bug the chances seem much more likely as long as the conditions are present to trigger the bug.

For further background on the still photo process have a look here for Thom Hogan's article on how we get photos (colour and amount of light) off the sensor:
http://www.bythom.com/ccds.htm
For the video process there is even more going on than what Thom describes for stills.

Just thinking out loud here, would be interested in comments.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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Robman3 Registered since 12th Apr 2010Sat 20-Nov-10 07:09 PM
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#8. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 6


West of Santa Monica, US
          

Steve that is a great query blizzard of, and so if's.

Really could be the case.

I cannot discern any hot pixels in the video shooting black screen so I guess it's safe.

My D-90 however, has a hot pixel in the low light frames, always has.

Rob

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RWA0655 Registered since 15th Nov 2010Sun 21-Nov-10 01:44 AM
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#9. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 8
Sun 21-Nov-10 01:45 AM by RWA0655

US
          

I received a replacement D7000 today. It has a single bright blue spot in the upper left quadrant when recording video. This one is clean on photos and has no hot pixels on the 3" display screen itself so I may have a keeper. I'm a bit torn though. I hate saying, "I guess it's good enough" when buying the latest camera from a company with an excellent reputation for quality.

The bright spots with both cameras are visible with and without noise reduction and in both 1280x720 and 1920x1080 recording modes at all quality settings.



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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Thu 25-Nov-10 02:27 AM
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#10. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 9


Toronto, CA
          

All DSLR's suffer from hot pixels. They tend to be more noticeable at high ISO's. With stills, High ISO NR normally helps this. With video, they all suffer from it. They come and go.

My neighbour has shot Canon for as long as I have known him. He has gone through several expensive bodies and currently shots the 1ds Mk4 and even he gets the odd hot pixel at high ISOs. If you are getting them at low ISOs it may be that they are in fact dead pixels and your sensor just needs to be remapped.

Jason

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RWA0655 Registered since 15th Nov 2010Thu 25-Nov-10 05:01 AM
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#11. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Yes, all DSLR cameras (actually, all digital cameras) have hot pixels. That is why many manufacturers (not Nikon) provide in-camera mapping. It is also why Nikon offers the remapping service via their NSC facilities.

The problem being discussed is significant and distracting bright dots that show up in video recordings at all ISO settings, that cannot be mapped out, and which are incredibly distracting.

This is a real issue that is not being blown out of proportion by a bunch of noobs with no experience. As described in the initial post, the video stuck pixel problem shows up at all ISO settings, in all video modes, and with both NR modes enabled.

Those reporting the problem are doing so to inform the community of a tangible issue. I have personally reported the issue to Nikon and have also provided video samples. Their support people confirmed that they are receiving multiple reports of the problem and that they are funneling all of the reports, with evidence, to specific members of their management team. They are confident that Nikon will provide a solution.

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Thu 25-Nov-10 12:25 PM
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#12. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 11


Toronto, CA
          

First, I never suggested that people were not reporting a legitimate problem so relax.

Second, the fact that it happens in every DSLR suggests that it is an issue that camera manufacturers should have fixed by now. My post was merely intending to point out that the issue of hot pixels is not new to the d7000, it has been around for as long as DSLR's have been taking high ISO photos and any video. When I bought my d90 this complaint was all over the internet (and videos on you tube). When the d300s came out, same thing. Canon forums on the internet are littered with this complaint to the point where the users have come up with a fix to correct it (involves pretending to clean the sensor so that it will remap itself).

Nikon never did anything other than remap the sensors for some, replace the cameras for others. Many of the same users complained months later that the pixels were back, or the new camera developed them.

My D7000 has no hot pixels right now, but I am sure it will develop them over time like all cameras. My D90 has one that shows up from time to time in hot weather. In photos, Lightroom does a good job of taking them out when it 'develops' a RAW file automatically.

Jason

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RWA0655 Registered since 15th Nov 2010Thu 25-Nov-10 04:23 PM
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#13. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

> First, I never suggested that people were not reporting a legitimate problem so relax.
>

Sorry Jason. I've had a few too many people (outside of this forum) question whether this is a real problem or just the usual product release hysteria and buyer's remorse and it's made me a bit touchy. I apologize.

Bob

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Mike Buckley Registered since 22nd Aug 2010Fri 26-Nov-10 01:06 PM
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#14. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 13


US
          

A recent report has surfaced that when a D7000 with hot pixels was excahnged for one with none, the Nikon rep mentioned that Nikon apparently believes the issue is a firmware problem rather than a sensor problem and that the firmware will be updated soon to resolve it. This report is third-hand information at best, so please feel free to ignore it or believe it.

Author of "IDimager Version 5 Workbook"

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KnightPhoto Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2006Mon 29-Nov-10 12:02 AM
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#15. "RE: D7000 Hot Pixel Reports Are Apparently True"
In response to Reply # 14


Alberta, CA
          

I hope that is true!!

I appreciate the report regardless, thank you Mike.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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