I have uploaded 2 files, the first is with the D7000, the second with a D700. Both with the Nikon 80-400mm fitted, both at a focal length of 200mm. The images have been cropped to 100%

I've had my D7000 for a week and until today all was well. For the last 7 days I've taken many images with the camera with a Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8 and a 24-120 f/4.5-5.6 and all seemed fine. I bought the D7000 for BIF and far wildlife, but it was only today I had a chance to try it out with both a Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 and 80-400 f/4.5-5.6. At this point I should say that until recently I used both these lenses very successfully with a D90 and still do with my D700. Images are crystal sharp with the D700 and the same lenses today, so we can rule out the lenses.

With the D7000 using the above longer lenses the focus is very soft with the 70-200 and much more so with the 80-400. The weather today was a glorious with superb visibilty, absolutely clear winters day with bright sun, but the images I took were truly unacceptable. I have never, until today, adjusted the Auto Focus fine tune on any of my cameras never needing to. However, failing light with the camera at 1000 ISO 1/60 @ f2.8 I put on the 70-200 and at a +8 fine tune it was better, at +16 better again. I don't think I should have to do this. What is your advice or am I doing something fundamentally wrong? In any event what is the difference between the auto tune - and +, is it front or rear focus, or is it a sensor adjustment? Sorry to appear dim, but I've never had this problem before and wondering if I should return the camera.

Two images are attached, details on the image both taken with Matrix metering and hand held.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

Richard

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

The first shot has no foreground or background objects, so judging front/back focus is impossible. Maybe the camera and lens just couldn't get a good focus lock. It happens.

The second shot looks like it's full of atmospheric haze. Lots of glare that day? Tough to get a clean shot in those circumstances even when using the right filters sometimes. Looks like some heat shimmer too, which always softens things.

I don't see an obvious camera problem.

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Can you take the same shots with these lenses and the D700 so we can see the comparison?

Also, 400mm hand-held @ 1/125 sec would be an extremely impressive shot to get "crystal sharp"!

---
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Chris Sgaraglino
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I was about to ask what tripod you were using but Chris's comment suggests the image was hand held. If so, even with VR at 400mm 1/125 seems pretty slow for sharpness. Nothing seems in focus by about the same amount so it does not appear to be a f/b focus issue, more like general camera movement
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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Hi

Thanks for that, but I have used both the D90 and D700 with these lenses for many thousand exposures, I am very steady handed, but have, as requested, posted two extra images. The first taken with the D7000, the second with a D700, the meta data is attached. The speeds are good and both lens had VR on. The light was excellent to. Howard mentioned heat heat shimmer, I wish, it was 4 deg centigrade when I took those!!

Thanks for your help

Richard

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Heat shimmer does not depend on "heat" as in elevated temperatures, it depends on differences in air temperature, or mass between air layers or in columns.

The different air mass boundaries have different index of refraction causing light to bend as it passes from one layer to another, causing a shimmer. This can happen just as easily with fluids, air or other gases, and is frequently seen at low temperatures. I remember when I used to approach my home airport which on a mountain plateau with steep canyons on both ends of the runway. The shimmer caused by the thermal air currents, in heat or freezing conditions really distorted the view through the windscreen during parts of the day when there was a difference in density of the air column raising or sinking out of or into the canyon. A better term would be air mass boundary shimmer since air mass or density differences is the important factor in creating it. That image with the valley between the vantage point and the subject would be a prime candidate for mass discontinuity between various air masses.

Stan
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Hi Chris

Thanks and I've put two on. Both at good speeds, acceptable apertures etc. See the exif data tags, the first is with the D700, 2nd with the D7000.

Cheers

Richard

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Sorry folks, resized the images wrongly, just uploaded better size.

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

Ok here is what I see, for what it is worth...

First, when shooting tests like this you should try to make sure your images are "Apples-Apples", this test is Apples-Oranges as the first image of the book was shot with the D7000 70-200 and the second the top image seems to be the D700 80-400. If your going to compare sharpness of a lens from one body to the next - use the same lens.

Also, shutter speed, focal length as well as aperture are all different - this makes it nearly impossible to analyze sharpness.

And because they are different lens, they are going to react with the AF system differently. Also these are crops, it hard to judge where they focus point was focusing on (or which one was used).

I will say this, that after they basketball game last night, the D700 has a much faster AF system and seems to lock focus and hold it better than the D7000 (not that the D7000 is bad mind you).

Also, it has been my experience going from the D50 > D80 > D200 > D300s > D700 to the D7000 ALL and I mean ALL of the Autofocus System took some time to learn. I had to figure out speed, AF Point Characteristics, Focus Tracking, Lock-On, etc... Each in its own right behaved differently.

Give it some time, learn the AF system and especially learn when it is going to fail and avoid those shooting situations when you can.

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

Thank you Chris.

My confusion is that I went from D80>D300>D700/90 and on no occasion did I have any problems with any lenses on any of those camera, it was a seamless transition. However, all images today with long lenses on the D7000 were truly bad.

I will concentrate on learning the new camera, but just can't understand why it's a big deal when my past transitions from camera to camera have been so easy. I was actually very surprised today with the longer lenses as all of my images with my 24-70 f/2.8 and even the dreaded 24-120mm f/4.5 - 5.6 were all pin sharp. I attach one last image taken later today with the D7000 & 70-200mm. It's not sharp, but soft and I expected it to be sharper than it is.

Thanks for your help, I'll experiment further.

Richard

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I have a 300 f/4 I'll try in the morning and see what I can get out of it....

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

The white fur is not necessarily a good AF target, and the shutter speed of 1/320 is unlikely to be fast enough to fully stop movement blur with a dog running toward the camera.
The dogs back rear paw stationary on the ground seems sharp and the front right paw moving faster toward the camera is more blurred than the face.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

>the first image of the book was shot with the D7000 70-200 and the second the top image seems to be the
>D700 80-400. If your going to compare sharpness of a lens from one >Also, shutter speed, focal length as well as aperture are all different - this makes it nearly impossible to analyze
>sharpness.
Also for whatever reason the exposures are more than a stop different, and the book not being parallel to the sensor can cause unsharp focus
http://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4585
I agree sharpness cannot be compared using these 2 images.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

Thanks, Richard - I removed the over-size images from your first post.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian
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Thank you Brian.

I hope the rain in the South West stops soon.

Richard

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Sounds like you are beginning to test the limitations of your new camera.
I think that more megapixels might be a major contributor.
I had the exact same problem with my D7000 when I first got it.
The longer lens will magnify any movement.
The higher resolution shows user error more better.
And an 80-400 also has a slower focus than the 70-200

By comparison, I can just snap away with my D3.
In fact, so far I get more keepers with the D3 and 80-400 than with the D7000 and 70-200.
We may have to use a MonoPod or TriPod to get great 400mm pictures with the D7000.

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I think you are shooting to slow a shutter speed even with VR... Maybe not ...try cranking ISO to 800 and shoot a faster shutter speed ..I would bet you see an improvement

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Yes, I think I'll try the higher ISO. It's just disappointing that my D90 was, out of the box, so clear. I do hope it's not for the reason that I bought the D7000, more pixels for crop factoring. I agonised for 2 months whether to go for the D300s or D7000. In the end I was persuaded through forums, reviews etc, that the extra pixels were good pixels.

Thanks to every one who's contributed, today I am going to try some distant shots with a test chart and the 80-400mm, tripod mounted, VR off against the D700 in the same situation. I'll let you know how I get on, if the blessed fog lifts that is! I'll also look forward to the results of Chris's experiment with the 300mm f/4

Cheers - Richard

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Hi. Done some test shots today, I'm even confused now as I expected to see the D700 walk over the D7000 in sharpness, wrong! See attached shots. Shots 1 & 2 are D7000/700 as are 3 & 4,. I am only posting 2 from each camera at present taken using my home made test card. The camera settings are the same for both the D7000 and D700 as written. The only difference of course is the D7000 is at 400mm making x1.5 factor = 600mm, D700 at 400mm = 400mm. Both cameras are kept at same distance, but obviously the D700 crop is x1.5 more than the D7000 crop which was 50%.

My surprise is that the best clarity shot at a setting I'd normally use for BIF is the D7000 1/800 @ f8 ISO 1000, the equivilant D700 shot is quite poor.

Anyway, I'm fairly confident now my D7000 focusing is ok as the 1/800 @ f8 ISO 1000 shot is really quite clear and a bit soft but satisfactory. At least I can confirm the camera setting are good. An interesting test although not exhaustive and lacking in completeness.

Your opinions welcomed.

Richard

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)
Attachment #4, (jpg file)

Your camera was plane to the surface of the test card for some shots, but not in others. Either the cards slipped in position slightly, or you were hand holding (and unavoidably shifting position slightly), or you were using a tripod and not realizing that a slight shift in the card's plane or the camera's plane affects focus.

Shooting test cards requires careful technique. When comparing the focus accuracy of two cameras, using one particular lens, you must employ a setup, using a prime lens, which allows each camera to be positioned at locations which provide identical angles of view of the non-moving test target. The front plane of the lens, no matter which camera its on, must be absolutely parallel the the plane of the test target (unless a specially designed 45 degree target is used, important for checking focus point accuracy - frontfocus and backfocus accuracy). The test target material (paper, plastic, wood, metal) itself must be absolutely flat, preferably mounted on a known-true flat board or acrylic panel or plate glass or metal plate. The test target must be firmly affixed to a known-true vertical wall or a tripod & clamp that have been trued vertical, level and plane. From the shooting platform, only the camera is changed and only the shooting platform position is shifted between pre-designated points.

Read it and weep, but it's the only way to do comparatives of focus accuracy between two bodies and a single lens. You have too many variable shifting around. In an earlier post you mentioned that you're a very stable handholder and I believe it. But for testing focus accuracy, handholding is simply not good enough and propped up test cards aren't good enough. I think we all, from time to time, make the mistake of testing or estimating focus accuracy using inexact means - a contradiction in terms.

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Thanks, that's interesting. The camera was on a tripod, each picture taken with mirror up and timed for 5 secs before release. The target card was blue tacked to the glass, so no movement. No prime lens used, but tomorrow I'll try a 60mm f/2.8 prime. Interestingly, the sun came out (an unusual occurance this time of year) and I reset the tripod up and took a few more images with the D7000 only whilst there was enough light left. The setup I used is exactly the same as before, I attach the best image, although all were much better. Amazing what sunlight can do sometimes.

I think I'll probably leave it there, but thanks for all you comments. The result of all this is that I never needed or even considered going through all this with either the D700 or D90. They were spot on first time and most times in most climatic conditions. Also, Nikon cameras are not a mystery to me and my images have been complimented as I go through my photography degree. So, at this stage I am disappointed and I do think that there's something wrong. I think I shall return it under the 30 day return terms. I don't feel any camera should make me think more about recording an image than my D700 and my now gone D90.

Best and thanks again.

Richard

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

I was going to start another thread on an issue that I found with my new D7000 but will mention it here in case its relevant.

I noticed that there is a general softness with some of your pictures while the controlled pictures are fine.

This reflects something that I have noticed with the d7000 but wonder if other people have noticed it too.

My D7k has a hair tigger and so the distance between the point on the shutter release button for focus and when the shutter is released is much smaller than the D300 and its taking me a little while to get used to. It means that the shutter is released very soon after focus is achieved.

The upshot of it is that sometimes the VR mechanism doesn't have time to come up with the 'anti-shake algorithm' and the picture is still moving when the shutter is tripped. So you picture comes out with the movement in it, even though the shtter speed is fine for the focal length.

Just a thought that this might be the problem you might be having. Taking a few pictures with the VR on and off would show you if this is the problem.

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Hi. Thank you, that is extremely interesting. If anything, I get better results, but only just, using the 70-200mm AF-S VRI than the 80-200mm AF-D VRI. Of course the AF-D focusing speed is no match for the AF-S, but the VR should be the same. Although the picture looks clear with the 80-400 when focus is achieved in the viewfinder and VR is on, perhaps VR is getting on a bit and too slow on the 80-400 and is no match for the new trigger speed as you elude to. Of course the the camera movement is going to be caused by the physical finger trigger actuation rather than the mirror operating. Perhaps on a tripod/monopod with VR off it may be better. Maybe, AF-D and VRI are no match for the new breed of cameras. My problem is that for BIF I hand hold and usually use the 80-400 in manual focus because it's so slow and VR is vital at lower speeds. It will be interesting to see reports from other BIF photographers. I will try with VR off, handheld as you suggest.

Incidentally, I have now upped the in-camera sharpening by 2 and the images with a 24-70mm f/2.8 are noticeably sharper. So yes, overall I think the out of box results are too soft. To enlarge what I said in my last post, I am disappointed generally. Every Nikon and Fuji SLR I've had have worked straight out the box to give totally acceptable images, after that the learning and fun became about what else can I adjust to make it better still. In a way I wish I'd bought the D300s, but was allowed to be swayed by the number of pixels!

Thanks again. .
Richard

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I believe he said he had VR set to OFF. He didn't write it in the text on the photo of the last image, but it was on the other test shots.

I think he needs to adjust his AF Fine Tuning on each lens. My D7000 needed a huge negative adjustment to start getting close to the sharpness I was seeing with the same lens on my D300 bodies.

Just my 2¢.

M. Jackson

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Hi

When you say a huge adjustment, what do you recommend I start at between -/+0 and -/+ 16 please? I have never on 3 Nikon dSLR's had to do this adjustment before and I thought it was there as a desperate measure only. If it was to be used, then the lens itself was probably faulty. Obviously I am wrong with that assumption.

Richard

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Hi All,

Regarding the auto focus Fine Tune... I just got my D7000 to replace a worn and badly beaten D200. Without dialing in the Fine tune 2 of my lenses would have been very very soft...they are

Nikon 50/ 1.4 AFD +11 adjustment

Tokina 12-24 /4 + 18 adjustment

Rest of my lenses image quality is exceptional no adj

Not sure why I had to do this but the proof was in the images. D200 had no such adjustment and images were fine. I dont think because of the increased resolution or technique as I shoot Medium Format Digital for a large portion of my work and tend to pixel peep....have worked with a rented D3 as well and didnt see a problem.

Regardless....all the images now are razor sharp with all my lenses...what have others experienced and if you adj. focus what lenses and how much ?

Regards,

Dennis

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I have never on 3 Nikon
>dSLR's had to do this adjustment before and I thought it was
>there as a desperate measure only. If it was to be used, then
>the lens itself was probably faulty. Obviously I am wrong
>with that assumption.
>
>Richard


AF-wise, I've noticed my D7000 seems faster and more accurate with the lenses I own.

Cameras/lenses are all made with a tolerance of + or - factors always involved to some degree. The focus-adjustment option is a great thing, and has nothing to do with correcting real faults.

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As promised, here is a spur-of-the-moment shot I took of my son.

---------- Shooting Data ---------
Date: November 19, 2010
Time: 09:45:41 PM
Model: NIKON D7000
Lens: AF 300mm f/4

ISO: 100
Focal Length: 450mm
Aperture: f/6.3
Shutter: 1/60sec
Exp. Comp.: 0.0
Flash Comp.: on, return not detected
Program: Aperture Priority
Focus Mode: AF-C
White Bal.: FLASH



1280px JPEG (1mb)


100% zoom of eye JPEG (900k)

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

No problem here. Nice shot.

I have been using my d7000 for over 3 weeks now and have had my 70-200 VRI and 70-300 VR on it. I have not experienced any issues.

Jason

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Thanks, Chris, but could you link to smaller versions, or perhaps to a page/folder containing both images?

Since links to .jpg files get displayed in-line by our Forum software, we ask that they comply with our image posting limits of 150K bytes and 900 pixels on the longer side.

Many thanks!

Brian
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Hi. I did have a problem and it seems now due to the help and support received on this forum I have not! Please see the two attached images. The first is taken with no Auto Fine Tune (set to default 0, the second is taken with the tuning set to -16. When I started this thread I did so by questioning the tuning issue, frankly I was afraid to adjust without really knowing what I was doing. However, after a post I had today I took 33 images starting at 0 and going 0 to -20 then 0 to + 20 (all in RAW). I then examined each image the worst was +20 the best -16. As you will see from the attached images No 2 is ok but could do with some post processing unsharp mask.

Now, this leaves me with a suplimentary question and I feel it is of great importance and should be so especially to Nikon. I am no rooky to photography and feel I understand Nikon cameras well, but that comes with a "but". As I've said all my cameras (Fuji S2 pro, D80, D300, D700 and D90) all worked to produce super sharp images straight out of the box. Therefore it is no wonder that the AF fine tune was only a menu function I was aware of, but never used in anger as I had no reason to do so. Now we get to the nub of my argument with Nikon.

If I was a rooky looking for my first dSLR with no previous experience and Darrell Youngs book is not yet available. If I had also bought a Nikon long lens to go with my brand spanking new D7000 I would surely be very disappointed when looking at the results of my first efforts at full zoom. Eventually, I would find on page 246 0f the manual a single page about AF fine tune which warns me to be careful of its use. In the troubleshooting it says nothing about it like e.g."for out of focus images also see the AF fine tune section". Finally, the purchaser may well have bought his new camera from a high street stockist. In my experience, unless they are a top rank retailer they will probably receieve no meaningful help there. It is also unlikely they would even think that forums like Nikonians even exist. When grumbling to a Canon owner I can hear the responce "that'll teach you to buy Nikon"!

How many of you think I have a valid point? I shall after posting this here may well think about posting it on a general Nikon forum.

300 shutter actuations after starting this thread, I am now happy with my D7000 and saved the embarresment of sending it to Nikon or arguing with the dealer.

Thank you everybody.

Best - Richard

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

So far, I have not needed any fine tuning on any camera or lens.
Yesterday I hauled one of my Nikkor 80-400s up and down the Monterey Recreational Trail.
I only had one need/opportunity to use and test it on my D7000,
but my wife had an urgent bathroom request,
so I could only snap a quick pic of that seal on a rock with my new 35mm f/1.8 DX lens.
It came out exceptionally sharp.

I added five D7000 pictures to my Nikonians galleries including that crop.
None of them had any post processing except resize and save at 85%.

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<<I added five D7000 pictures to my Nikonians galleries including that crop. None of them had any post processing except resize and save at 85%.>>

Great pictures, I'm sure mine will be as sharp, need good weather to venture out at the moment.

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If you check on "that other forum" you will see a great many posts on this issue. Some folks need a lot of fine tun, a few don't. Some say that the need for fine tune seems to lesson as the camera is used more! Some have returned several bodies for exchange, in hope of getting one that works without the fine tune. Many folks have sent their bodies back to Nikon for adjustment.To make matters even more confusing, nikon says to use it sparingly, even though some bodies need to go to -20!

So yes this is a BIG issue with the D7000

I've been following this thread with interest. I should be purchasing my D7000 in the next few weeks. I've used the D50 initially and then the D80 for the past couple of years. Since I post-process with Lightroom, I almost never use any in-camera settings. Perhaps this may need some re-consideration on the D7000?

Would it be more helpful to use a more basic lens, like a prime, to test for this?

Interesting about the hair-trigger response on the shutter. I'm somewhat used to this with the D80's vertical grip (from Nikon). Got some extra shots getting used to that. I'd probably set the AF-ON function on the AE-L button on the D7000.

As usual, thanks for everyone's thoughts here!

Ah yes, much better. I had two d200 bodies and I never felt the images were terribly sharp when using them with my 200-400 VR. I spent most of the year complaining to my mentor. When the D300 came out, the very first thing I did was try out the AF Fine Tuning. Mine worked best on both of my D300 bodies at +8. Finally, my 200-400 was sharp. Amazingly sharp!

When I brought the new D7000 home, I assumed it needed the +8 adjustment since that setting worked on both D300 bodies. All photos at at that setting were very soft. I set it back to 0 and it was a bit sharper, but I wasn't satisfied. Eventually, I set the tripod up and shot at a license plate across the street at about 75 feet at ISO 200 , in Aperture priority at f/7.1 or f/8. I shot two at -20, two at -15, two at -10, and so on up to +20. In between each pair, I aimed high on the rear hatch and centered over the S on SUBURU to help divide the shots. On the next pair of shots, I centered on the U and so forth. When in Lightroom, I labeled each one with -20 thru +20 and deleted the softer of each pair. It might not replace one of the new calibrating systems, but it did give me some way of telling where my lens was focusing best. In my case, I needed to go to -20 to get shots even close to sharp. I believe I needed to go to -25 or even -30, but it only goes to -20. I put my D300 on the same tripod with the same lens at the same distance and tried it just to have something to compare. The D300 was still sharper than the best one I could get with the D7000. Later, I did a similar test inside with my 24-70 AFS lens and it worked best at a setting between -15 and -20. At -17, I finally saw what other people were raving about on this forum...sharp photos and the ability to use the high ISO.

The first set of tests were shot with RAW and opened with LR 3.3 RC. Someone on this board mentioned the possibility of Adobe converter not converting as sharp as it should—or will. The last group were shot with JPG, and looking back, I might have done the first tests with high quality JPGs to eliminate one variable. (The JPGs would all be affected by the in-camera settings for sharpness, saturation, contrast, and so forth, but at least all be affected the same) And, some of the people complaining of softness, blaming LR's 3.3 converter, might need to adjust their AF Fine Tuning settings in the camera. That's just speculation on my part now.

This thread might help a few people having similar sharpness issues. I read this forum religiously when I had the D7000 camera hoping to find others going through the same issue of poor focus. A quick couple of layman tests (just like your squirrel photos above) might help solve the issue quickly for others. I am about ready to spend the $150 for the calibration kits as it appears AF Fine Tuning is going to be a necessary step with all new cameras. At least Nikon now includes the adjustment feature in the new bodies.

M Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Thanks, it's a worry though especially in your case where -20 was needed and perhaps then some more. I do think tomorrow I shall contact Nikon UK and talk to them. I think I would feel happier if 0 was sharp, giving 20 either way. I would be very happy if they asked for my unit back and issued a new one. I will let everyone on the forum know what the Nikon UK comments are. It's my intention also to check all my lenses. I have done the 70-200 f/2.8 and set that to only -3 and really that was being very fussy.

Richard

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I hesitated writing the information above, but if it helps anyone having focusing issues, maybe it was worth it. I also had a lot of hot spots while shooting videos, so I took my D7000 back to the local camera store. I would have been happy to try another body, but they didn't have one and issued the credit on my card. Yes, I would have loved for the AF setting to be close to -5 to +5 to have some latitude either way on other lenses.

When I saw your post and viewed your photos, I could see a lot of similarities to the images I was getting over two days of shooting.

I am happy to hear you are now satisfied with your camera!

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Thanks, I just hope a month down the line I don't regret the purchase.

Richard

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Over the past year and a bit I began a concerted effort to AF Fine tune all my bodies and lenses plus teleconverters.

I started the process due to recognition that my 500VR (after 18 months of shooting it mind you) appeared to be front-focusing on my D300. Depth of field is razor thin with this combo so tuning can make a real difference. Fine tuning is simply adjusting the zone of focus backwards or forwards around your specific AF target. I believe the goal is put your AF target in the centre of the zone of focus. So you are moving the zone backwards and forwards in distance by manipulating this setting.

I continued the process with my 70-200 where again I noticed an improvement.

I continued the process with 3 teleconverters (TCs) on the above mentioned two lenses.

I continued the process with my D700.

I continued the process with my D7000.

I am still having trouble with getting the value right for at least one of my lenses (135mm DC). I probably need to return to square one with this lens.

In general I think my D7000 adjustments are slightly more moderate then on my D700/D300. So in my limited experience, I am not ranking the D7000 as any better or worse than other Nikon bodies. Different maybe, but so are my D700/D300 from each other. So I don't think readers should form a conclusion that the D7000 is necessarily worse in this regard without a lot more data points.

Given my three bodies and 8 lenses and three teleconverters that is something like 36 combinations for me to work on. Caution-you have entered into the realm of AF fine tuning

My experience so far is that AF-fine-tune is more of a journey than a destination (unless you have unlimited time). For example my 500VR, did it worsen over time or did it always have the problem but I never noticed until I became sufficiently skilled with using it? Did my camera mount "worsen" over time or how about the lens (I did send it in for servicing the tripod mount once, did that cause it?). To this day I don't know the answers to these questions but I have determined/resolved to embark on this quest of mine for sharp photos, so as long as the results are there that is what is important. Will these results change over time - the answer is that it is entirely possible; therefore we shall have to keep an eye out for any changes in results over time.

You may also find you need repeatability if you keep up with this. Focusing on a flat target is not the recommended approach though. Have a look at the lens align tool if you are going to continue the path.

I do agree your fine-tuned image looks far better. So you might want to stop right there and you are done.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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Thanks Steve

Re: "Have a look at the lens align tool if you are going to continue the path". Where do I find that please?

Yes, I agree with what you say, AF fine tune fiddling must be a sub disease of "Nikonitis"!

I am still unsure whether to send it back, or not. I will decide tomorrow. My experience of Nikon has taken a knock after years of happy photography. It's a lot of money to spend and spend time doubting its abilities.

Richard

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>
>This thread might help a few people having similar sharpness
>issues. I read this forum religiously when I had the D7000
>camera hoping to find others going through the same issue of
>poor focus. A quick couple of layman tests (just like your
>squirrel photos above) might help solve the issue quickly for
>others. I am about ready to spend the $150 for the calibration
>kits as it appears AF Fine Tuning is going to be a necessary
>step with all new cameras. At least Nikon now includes the
>adjustment feature in the new bodies.
>
>M Jackson
>Jackson Hole, WY


Thanks everyone for their thoughts and experience. I have read much and posted a fair amount on Nikonians and have been helped countless times. I now have a decent understanding of DOF, camera motion, shutter speeds and VR and feel that I finally know how to get a great sharp image with my D5000. I am certainly not as experienced as probably anyone writing on this thread and have not yet purchased the D7000 but am still intending to.

Should I wait until Nikon fixes these focusing problems? Will they fix them?
Instead of spending another $150 on a calibration kit, can I place a yard/meter stick at a 45 degree angle focus at a point in the middle with camera set on tripod and experiment with fine tuning? I would think that camera should be properly tuned for focus if I could see as many sharp lines in front of and behind focus point. Is this reasonable. Also when tuning camera with a zoom lens, should I zoom in or shoot wide? I would hope the camera would be tuned for the lens regardless of the zoom factor and would anticipate the higher zoom with decreased DOF would be easiest to tune. I am also planning on keeping aperture wide open also to decrease DOF too maximize ease of tuning.

Am I getting in over my head?


I found 2 focus charts on line with free pdf downloads as well which I could tape to cardboard.
see below
http://focustestchart.com/focus21.pdf
and

http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.traumflieger.de%2Fdesktop%2Ffokusdetektor%2Ffokusdetektor.php&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen

JohnE Nikon

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

> I
>would hope the camera would be tuned for the lens regardless
>of the zoom factor and would anticipate the higher zoom with
>decreased DOF would be easiest to tune. I am also planning on
>keeping aperture wide open also to decrease DOF too maximize
>ease of tuning.


I have the same question. While fine tuning my 70-200 at 70mm I need +4 while at 200mm It seems to need a different number. I ran the fine tune all the way to +20 with no change and -20 with no change. I chose to set my lens at +4 at 70mm -2.8 because of the DOF being so short. I could leave the fine tune off and the focus seems to be really close to 1/3rd front 2/3rds back rule, but the +4 makes it perfect. I'm thinking that the fine tune is best for prime lens. 105 2.8 macro lens is next. Don

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Will the camera remember fine tune for non Nikon lenses? I am considering a Tokina 11-16 but if it does not keep fine tune I would not get it.

Also I have read that if Fine tune is on but set to zero the camera will not focus as well, as just keeping fine tune off. Keep in mind I do not yet own this camera, just adding info for others.

Also does fine tuning a lens decrease auto focus speed? I have read that using ADL, noise reduction, etc can affect focus response rate. Does this also happen with fine tuning?

JohnE Nikon

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Richard -

I'm glad you're getting better results with your camera. Image #2 is certainly improved. It seems odd to me though that NOTHING is in focus on image #1. Are you convinced this is a front/back focus issue vs. general image blur? Perhaps the VR is not settling?

Paul
My Nikonians Gallery

Ok..... this is all new to me with this camera. I will ask a couple questions that I hope do not make me appear too stupid.

1. If I THINK I have a problem with a given lens and decide to do the fine tuning, does the camera store the info and automatically use it every time you put that lens on the camera or does it store it and you go to that setting every time you put that lens on?

2. I am assuming that you can do it and store it for more than one lens?

3. Can it all be reversed and set back to default if the results are not what you were looking for as with all other settings?

Thanks in advance guys. I have gone from D70 to D80 to D90 and have to say this one is by far a big step up both in features and performance. I thought I had died and gone to heaven with the D90 and really didn't think I would ever be able to shoot basketball without a flash unless I went to full frame. I was very wrong.

Keith

The AF Fine Tune is easy, non-destructive, and changeable. I can't imagine it affecting focusing speed or frame rate. You can change and adjust any of the settings in only a minute or so.

Yes, it remembers every lens and lens combination and adjusts to those settings as soon as the lens is attached. It can recognize a teleconverter/lens combination. I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but it can store about a dozen different lens and lens/tc combinations. I can't say whether it will work with non-Nikon lenses, but certainly works with Nikon lenses. As far as I remember, it can tell the difference in two of the same lenses, apparently by the serial number.

If someone wanted to make a big deal out of this focusing issue, I guess they could, but I see it as a wonderful tool that was missing in my D200 bodies. The fact that is IS on a D7000 should be a selling point. If it had not been on the D7000, it would have been a deal breaker before I purchased it.

Hope this helps!

M. Jackson
Jackson Hole, WY

Helps a lot. Thanks for the info.

Keith

> I can't say
>whether it will work with non-Nikon lenses, but certainly
>works with Nikon lenses.
>
>Hope this helps!

Thanks for the info. If someone could confirm whether or not it works with non-Nikon lenses that would be very helpful info as a lot of people are deciding between Nikon and non-Nikon lenses with this body. This could be the deciding factor as to which lens to get.

- yes AF fine tune works with non-Nikon lenses too.

First and foremost, I would agree with the advice here on Nikonians not to tune unless you know you have a problem. But if one does want to tune more than just a single lens/body you need a repeatable process. There are some good articles here on Nikonians if you search and there are some podcasts too. I did piddle with the home built charts too at first but I had the nagging thought that it was not completely accurate. http://www.lensalign.com/how-lensalign-works.html

I think AF fine tune is particularly for fast primes (f1.4, f1.8. f2), the 70-200 f2.8 if you need it (mine does) and long telephotos (400mm and up) that it has the most value. And also with teleconverters.

Yes we all know the 1/3 - 2/3rd rule from back in the film days but not so fast according to Lens Align:
http://www.whibalhost.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8877

Don't get me wrong though, I am not advocating AF fine tune as a norm. Unless you have a serious problem like the OP, fine tune should probably be left for squeezing the last percentages out of your equipment only after you have eliminated every other variable. Especially if you were shooting at too low of a shutter speed (motion blur is a common problem).

The other thing that goes without saying is becoming a master sharpener. Have a look at Jason Odell's offerings for Capture NX2 or Thom Hogan's (old) sharpening article for photoshop.

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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A question...

If you have back focus, do you dial up a positive or negative fine tuning?

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>A question...
>
>If you have back focus, do you dial up a positive or negative
>fine tuning?

If image details are sharper behind the focus target (back-focus) then minus compensation will do the trick.

I always get this mixed up, but eventually get it right when I am tuning

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

Except that it seems a great many buyers are getting cameras that just don't focus, and find that they need to dial in -15 or -20. This is not a trivial problem, especially since nikon recommends that tuning should be used sparingly. I just ordered a camera to be shipped to Panama, so returning it won't be an option for me. I am praying for a good one!

>Except that it seems a great many buyers are getting cameras
>that just don't focus, and find that they need to dial in -15
>or -20.

I submit that we have insufficient data to make such an assumption. Most new DSLR models get landed with one particular "fault" after a few complaints get magnified by internet hype. In most cases (though not all) it proves to be a false alarm.

Why not wait and see for a while...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian
Check out the Nikonians Team pages

>>Except that it seems a great many buyers are getting
>cameras
>>that just don't focus, and find that they need to dial in
>-15
>>or -20.
>
>I submit that we have insufficient data to make such an
>assumption. Most new DSLR models get landed with one
>particular "fault" after a few complaints get
>magnified by internet hype. In most cases (though not all) it
>proves to be a false alarm.
>
>Why not wait and see for a while...

This is a good point. I am on my 3rd Nikon DSLR and I have a stable of lenses from Nikon and other manufacturers and I am yet to need focus adjustment or a new lens. I could be lucky, or just not unlucky I suppose.

I suspect cameras that need focus adjustment might be like "bad copies" of lenses. They are very scarce compared to the total number sold, but anytime someone has one they will be on the internet posting about it because they are trying to determine what the heck the problem with their camera (or lens) is. In short the internet and especially camera forums magnify a small problem because of the nature of camera forums (that is where people go when they have a problem). There is also the issue with people reading posts on camera forums and then being convinced that they have a problem that they never even noticed before...that is a whole other story.

Jason

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>
>Thanks for the info. If someone could confirm whether or not
>it works with non-Nikon lenses that would be very helpful info
>as a lot of people are deciding between Nikon and non-Nikon
>lenses with this body. This could be the deciding factor as to
>which lens to get.


I just put on my Sigma 80-400 and the Nikon d7000 did in fact see it as a 80-400 and I did a quick save to +4 and it saved it. Hope this helps. Don

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Thanks everyone for all the input.

JohnE Nikon

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Situation resolved! Today I returned my D7000 and took sample images with me to save any arguments. The shop had one D7000 left and swopped it for me. I have used it in the last hour and had a look at the first "straight out the box" images. Fantastic, no need for any AF fine tune on this body, it worked a treat.

I am glad I did exchange it now, as having to adjust the fine tune by -16 points just didn't seem right to me. I hope everything continues OK.

Once again thanks to everyone who contributed to my thread regarding the focus issue. Just goes to prove that Nikonians subscription is worth every penny.

Regards

Richard

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

>> I can't say
>>whether it will work with non-Nikon lenses, but certainly
>>works with Nikon lenses.
>>
>>Hope this helps!
>
>Thanks for the info. If someone could confirm whether or not
>it works with non-Nikon lenses that would be very helpful info
>as a lot of people are deciding between Nikon and non-Nikon
>lenses with this body. This could be the deciding factor as to
>which lens to get.

My Sigma 70-200mm 2.8 lense works great. I haven't seen the need (yet) for fine tuning with it.

Thank you, Nikonians!

Ok all you focus gurus. I am pretty sure I have some of the issues as the original poster. It looks to me like my 70-300mm AF-S VR and my 80- 200mm f2.8 are soft, way soft. The 50mm and 85mm f1.8 not so much, but still not tack sharp. So how do I go about these adjustments? What is the best ap, focal length and shutter speed to use? What do you guys shoot to... something with lots of color and contrast? I, like the OP never once had to even think about doing any of this on my D90 or even my old D70. They just worked with all my lenses and worked well. Thanks in advance for any input.

Keith

My problem was very similar if not the same as yours. If I hadn't ever put a long lens on the camera it would be unlikely I would have immediately noticed a focus problem. In the end and in a very amateurish way I suppose, I took images off a tripod at about 60ft away with my 80-400mm lens and adjusted the auto fine tune from its base point "zero" in both the positive maximum +20 to the negative maximum -20. The speed and aperture remained constant. I then examined the images in photoshop and found that good focus was achieved at a fine tune value of -16.

The camera allows you to do this on I think 12 lenses and remembers the value set each time you mount the lens. See page 246 of the manual.

However, I agree that from day one it was the only camera I've ever had to do this with. I took it back yesterday and I'm pleased to say that I once again have a "it worked straight out of the box" camera. I must say the help I received on this forum was outstanding. What a great bunch of guys.

Hope that helps some.

Richard

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Thanks Richard. I intend to do some further testing, but it will have to wait a day as it is raining here and is looking like it will last all day.

Keith

I took it back yesterday and I'm
>pleased to say that I once again have a "it worked
>straight out of the box" camera.


And for what you paid, you're entitled to have that. Nagging feelings that there's something wrong isn't a good way to start off with a new lens, camera, or anything. I'm glad for you.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

The "alternative camera forum" is alive with D7000 issues and a lot of confused posters. In fairness I think I may have been unlucky. The trouble is that to announce a camera as almost being a revolution in dSLR's was Nikons error. Then to allow the forum and press frenzy to gain momentum over 2 months just enlarged that PR error. It could backfire on them if it's seen as less than promised.

We shall see. Tomorrow I'm going to really give it some hard work by the sea.

Cheers

Richard

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I sent my 70-300 in for servicing thinking the lens was the problem, but now wonder if it is the camera. Unfortunately. my D7000 has serious blown pixels am I am waiting for a replacement, so there is no point i attempting any adjustments...
Dennis

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Sorry to hear that Dennis. The other forum is full of blown pixel problems, but mostly focus. No there's reaaly no point in doing any tests and possibly the 70-300 was affected, if so I bet your problems were at about 200mm and above. When my 80-400mm was at 200mm no obvious problems after 300mm the soft focus crept in at 400mm it wasn't soft, but out of focus. Of course if I had looked at an image taken with the lens say at 200mm and zoomed in, I would have seen it I think.

I've never known such problems with a new Nikon, do you know if the 3100 had early problems with its higher pixels and new expeed 2 processor?

Richard

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So after much anguish and lots of despair, the weather cleared up enough to see just how bad my focus issue was. The results I think are (1) I am getting old and feeble (2) The camera is very high tech and will take some changes in technique (3) You Must use a tripod to really tell the story. I am guessing that once I figure out the differences with the camera and learn that you CAN NOT shoot on the fly or from the hip with this one everything will be ok. The worst lens was the 85mm f1.8, but it was always soft on the D90 so I will try to tweak it or find another one. Tell me what you guys think Of the 2 images. The first is at 300mm f5.6 1/500 ( AF-S 70-300mm VR) and the second is at 200mm f2.8 1/500 with the 80-200mm f2.8. Thanks for all the help.

Keith

1.


2.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

Tell me what you guys think
>Of the 2 images. The first is at 300mm f5.6 1/500 ( AF-S
>70-300mm VR) and the second is at 200mm f2.8 1/500 with the
>80-200mm f2.8. Thanks for all the help.

On my monitor, on both images, I think the door is focussed, not the wreath.

I'm not sure whether or not these are from the camera you returned because of focus issues...

Did you use focus point selection or let the camera decide? The camera may have focussed on the door...

IF you specifically were focussing on the wreath, and the camera wound up rendering the door sharp, then this is a perfect time to tweak the AF. It's a minor tweak actually, and prior generation cameras had no ability to do this (D200, D2x, D80, D40) unless they were sent back for factory readjustment.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

Great images. Of the two the second is the sharpest as I would expect. The first the 70-300, if you listen to the experts, is known to be soft at 300mm, the sharpest is I believe 200mm. Anyway, great images of which antone would be happy.

Cheers

Richard

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Here's one from my Sigma 50/1.4. Hand-held at 1.4. The focus point was set and locked on the young lady's right eye (the one on the left in the image). This is a very touchy lens setting as the slightest rocking in and out changes the focus point. But within normal tolerances, the ability to tweak focus for individual lenses is a great option. As it happens, this is from my D7000 out of the box...

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

Well, I thought I had my issue resolved. But then the sun came out and I decided to give it another look. I couldn't even get the 85mm to look good at -20, and that is the way it needed to go. It was a tad soft on the D90, but with a little PP it was ok. I decided to try and tweak the 70-300 just a tad at 300mm and and it looked really good at -6, but it threw it WAY out of focus at 70mm, just as the manual said it might. I talked to the owner of the store just a few minutes ago. He said to bring it back in the morning and swap it. I really, really like the camera, but I'm thinking Nikon got in a hurry, just as I did in rushing to buy one of the first batch. Like Richard, I don't think I should have to go thru all this with a new camera.

Keith

I think it has to do with where it is made.
And face it, if it were not cheaper they would make them in Japan.
Where every worker is trained to a higher level and scrutinized much more thoroughly.
And, even though Nikon sets the specs, they certainly cannot check every camera.
I am sure once the Christmas rush is over, you will see the quality rise.

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If one allows that a high proportion of buyers will never notice the problems, those with the short kit lens for example, then Nikon won't be forced to do a recall. I think we may be the lucky ones who have noticed and are doing something about it early.

I hadn't really thought about the country of manufacture, but now it's been mentioned, all my "worked out of the box" cameras were/are built in Japan.

Keith, good luck and I hope your new 7000 is OK like mine. I certainly started a long thread on this and it's been valuable to many of which I am pleased. Perhaps Nikon should read it, or perhaps they do!

Richard

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>
>I hadn't really thought about the country of manufacture, but
>now it's been mentioned, all my "worked out of the
>box" cameras were/are built in Japan.

I question if country of manufacture plays into a quality control issue. From my understanding Nikon shifted much of its manufacturing to Thailand quite some time ago. For instance my D80 is stamped made in Thailand and has worked fine out of the box.

Although I would agree that a rush may have affected QC issues with the Nikon brass. Perhaps with not wanting to have short supply for the holiday rush they may well have overlooked some issues that they felt were marginal in an attempt to provide a sufficient supply. With reports of sensor issues with hot or stuck pixels and now some with focus issues makes my feeling even stronger. Which seems to be a feeling also shared by some comments in this thread.

Presently I am crossing my fingers for the stuck sensel that I discovered from click one and has been in just about every image, I find now with some 200 clicks in, it seems to have corrected itself. Here is hoping!!!

With the reports of the focus issue I was checking my results more carefully. And what I found seems to reflect comments being made by another member (I seem to believe it was RRRoger but not sure) about needing to get use to the higher resolution for it is less forgiving to equipment and technique. For there are some images that seem to miss the mark so to speak, and then others that were spot on and tack sharp. This leads me to believe that it is more user error on my part and I will need time to get use to the higher resolution as well as getting use to the way it operates. And to that end I did some testing using the moon as a target and discovered a surprising result. The 70-300 VR although being a low priced consumer lens said to soften at the long end actually performed very well wide open. And while most consume variable focal length lenses benefit from stopping down, at f/8 the quality was close but f/5.6 seemed to eke it out.

I am not trying to diminish nor question the veracity of those with more severe focus issues than myself, for I can fully empathizes with them knowing how I felt when I discovered that stuck sensel at click one almost dead center of the image. But this entire buzz makes me wonder that if in an attempt to one up Canon who has had high MP APS cameras and 1080 HD video for a while now, did they push this to fast in attempt to regain market share for the upcoming holiday season.

Pete

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After rereading this entire post it look like the thread has run its course. The OP and at least one other poster have resolved their issues. The thread has also grown to a size that is making it load slowly even from a very fast internet connection. This has been an interesting and informative thread so I would like to thank all whom contributed.

So, please start another thread if you need to discuss focus issues or focus fine tune.

This thread is now locked.

Thanks, Dave

Dave
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