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Subject: "Help with this image" Previous topic | Next topic
RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Wed 18-Jan-12 10:23 PM
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"Help with this image"


US
          

Just bought the AFS 50mm/1.8G, and put it on a D7K body.



Here's the metadata:



Here's a link to download the RAW file:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_UzfgLd3NDmNTY0OTljNjctNjU0OS00NDBkLWI1YmMtYTE3ODk0N2ExMDYy

which I hope actually works....


Finally, here's the file converted to jpg



To my eye, something appears to be "soft" around the eye - even though that seems to be the focus point. Any ideas?

Also, any other ideas about how I could improve such a pic are welcome. Critique away!

Thanks in advance.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Help with this image
SaurianFire
19th Jan 2012
1
Reply message RE: Help with this image
RLDubbya Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
2
     Reply message RE: Help with this image
SaurianFire
19th Jan 2012
12
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JosephK Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
3
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RLDubbya Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
4
     Reply message RE: Help with this image
billD80 Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
5
          Reply message RE: Help with this image
RLDubbya Silver Member
20th Jan 2012
23
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agitater Gold Member
19th Jan 2012
6
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four eighty sparky Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
7
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JPJ Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
14
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RLDubbya Silver Member
20th Jan 2012
22
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icslowmo Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
8
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Kryoclasm
19th Jan 2012
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blw Moderator
19th Jan 2012
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Kryoclasm
19th Jan 2012
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Fabien65
19th Jan 2012
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RLDubbya Silver Member
19th Jan 2012
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JosephK Silver Member
20th Jan 2012
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RLDubbya Silver Member
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JosephK Silver Member
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Fabien65
20th Jan 2012
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RLDubbya Silver Member
20th Jan 2012
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Fabien65
20th Jan 2012
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billD80 Silver Member
21st Jan 2012
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RLDubbya Silver Member
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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Thu 19-Jan-12 12:13 AM
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#1. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 19-Jan-12 12:14 AM by SaurianFire

US
          

Seems to me you didn't do anything wrong. I may be wrong but it seems to me tne plane of focus is not on the eye as shown by the focus point. It seems to be a bit further back. The hairs sticking out on the dog's right eye and the back of the neck seem to be in sharpest focus.

Could it be because of the dog's very dark eye???

Any more samples showing the same??? Nice looking dog.

Respectfully,
Frank

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Thu 19-Jan-12 01:00 AM
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#2. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

That's what it looks like to me.

I uploaded another one to the same location referenced in my original post. When I first saw this image, I thought something was "off" as well, but at this time my eyes are too tired.

Maybe what I did wrong was picking a bad focus point, although the camera obviously thought focus was locked on?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Thu 19-Jan-12 10:19 AM
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#12. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

I looked at the second sample and the same problem. The focus point was right between the eyes with the dog's face parallel to the camera. Again as Joseph pointed out the rings holding the tags seem in sharpest focus.

I understand you want to use the lens' largest aperture so pick a human face or better target to quickly see if you may have a problem. Unless I misunderstood and you are only having a problem shooting the dog at f/1.8.

I know when I first got my 50mm 1.8G I took a test shot of an all black feral cat on a very bright tile patio and the focus point was anywhere but on the cat's head where the focus point showed.

Respectfully,
Frank

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Thu 19-Jan-12 01:02 AM
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#3. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 0


Seattle, WA, US
          

In this case the eye might not have been the best focus target. It is black and surrounded by lots of dark gray. However, it is probably what I would have picked as the target anyway.

Looking at the NEF file, the plane of focus seems to be that of the tags on the collar.

The really thin depth of field at f/1.8 and the close distance is probably working against you in this case.

If reshooting this shot, I would probably go with an aperture of f/4 for a slightly deeper depth of field and lower the ISO. The EXIF data suggests a subject distance of 4-5 feet, so the slightly smaller aperture should still keep the background blurred while giving the AF system a bit more room for error.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, 50mm f/1.4 D,
17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Thu 19-Jan-12 01:19 AM
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#4. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          


Thanks.

>If reshooting this shot, I would probably go with an aperture
>of f/4 for a slightly deeper depth of field and lower the ISO.
> The EXIF data suggests a subject distance of 4-5 feet, so the
>slightly smaller aperture should still keep the background
>blurred while giving the AF system a bit more room for error.
>

I'll give that a try - I do appreciate the input on this.



>---------+---------+---------+---------+
>Joseph K
>Seattle, WA, USA
>
>D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, 50mm
>f/1.4 D,
>17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX
>

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Thu 19-Jan-12 01:39 AM
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#5. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

At f/1.8 you have almost no depth of field. Even so, the dog's eyeball looks sharp on my monitor.

For real effect, use the same aperture and move in on the eye, using AF-S. Set and HOLD your focus (press halfway and hold on the shutter release), recompose, DON'T move in or out, and depress the shutter release all the way for a neat capture...

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Fri 20-Jan-12 10:22 PM
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#23. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 5


US
          

Bill - why AF-S? I'm not arguing, as I still do prefer AF-S most of the time. Genuinely curious as to your recommendation.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Thu 19-Jan-12 02:52 AM
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#6. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 0


Toronto, CA
          

At f/1.8 the depth of field is really shallow. That means even the slightest fore or aft shift in camera position will affect sharpness on the focus point after a half-press. So I agree with the previous post - open up your aperture slightly to give yourself a bit more depth of field.

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Howard Carson, Managing Editor
Kickstartnews Inc. - http://www.kickstartnews.com

  

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four eighty sparky Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Apr 2011Thu 19-Jan-12 03:44 AM
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#7. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 19-Jan-12 03:45 AM by four eighty sparky

US
          

>even though that seems to be the focus point.

To find the focus point in CNX2, select View > Show Focus Point, or Ctrl+Shft+F

____________________________

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JPJ Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2009Thu 19-Jan-12 09:56 PM
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#14. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 7


Toronto, CA
          

Just a word of caution, my understanding is that viewing the focus point in CNX2 of ViewNX2 is for approximating purposes only. That is, this is a graphic representation of where the program believes your focus box was when you took the picture, NOT necessarily the point that the camera focused on. As we know, focus sensors are often bigger and not centered on the actual focus box, so it is entirely possible that the program show you one focus location, but the camera focused on another.

Jason

p.s. I also think the issue with this photo is DOF, at 1.8 you simply can't get the entire dog razor sharp - you either nail the eye or you don't. That being said, the eye looks fine at normal viewing size.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Fri 20-Jan-12 10:20 PM
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#22. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 14


US
          

Thanks. Being involved in the software field, I sort of take for granted that most software I can afford just do some kind of gross approximations, and may not reflect reality.

That said, I still think the problem was operator error.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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icslowmo Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Jan 2012Thu 19-Jan-12 06:07 AM
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#8. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 0


Phoenix, US
          

If you find with this lens focus plan is behind target, you may need to turn on AF Fine tune and tune lens to -5. May help.... My 50mm F/1.4 I believe is set to -15 or -20, I need to send my camera in for re-calibration of AF system...

  

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Kryoclasm Registered since 10th Jan 2012Thu 19-Jan-12 06:42 AM
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#9. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 8
Thu 19-Jan-12 06:48 AM by Kryoclasm

Ketchikan, US
          

I have the same issue, all 3 of my lenses require -20 on the fine tune to get sharp focus, my 2 Nikon lenses are good there, but my sigma needs a bit more.

I too will need to send in for re-calibration I guess.

How common is this problem with the d7k? I love this camera, I'd hate to be without it.

Shawn

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Thu 19-Jan-12 06:48 AM
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#10. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 9


Richmond, US
          

If ALL of your lenses need the full -20 to be even close, the camera is out of calibration and should be repaired. I would be careful to check your methodology before arriving at this conclusion, as it is VERY easy to get this wrong. But if your methodology is sound, it really does need some attention.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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Kryoclasm Registered since 10th Jan 2012Thu 19-Jan-12 07:42 AM
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#11. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 10


Ketchikan, US
          

Well, when I first got the camera it felt like the focus was off. I was only able to hand hold the shots, so I gave it only minor credence.

Now, I have a quality stable tripod and ball head. I proceeded to do focus tests using a focus chart with all 3 lenses and good lighting and the remote shutter release. I tried shallow and deep dof with all 3 lenses.

I spent a good day on and off doing checks at different ranges using auto focus, manual focus and live view focus... Live view focus works very well if not way too slow, thus proving that there is a decrepancy between the live view contrast focus technique and the AF sensor phase alignment technique.

With this information I know the lenses are in good shape and the results are very consistent.

I do have a background with the older manual focus slr's and I do understand when there really is a focus issue.

I'm just bummed and confused that the D7K has this issue when it has so much right.

  

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Fabien65 Registered since 19th Jan 2012Thu 19-Jan-12 09:12 PM
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#13. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 11
Thu 19-Jan-12 09:16 PM by Fabien65

FR
          

Good evening,

If you were around 1.5 meter from your dog, the depth of field is only 8cm, so you need to have a good focus point to be sharp...

the shutter speed was 1/1250, quite high, so i think you can close at f/4- f/5.6 and have more depth of field and still enough speed to be sharp.
If you are concerned with a backfocus, the best way to know is to do a focus test using a focus chart…
Best regards,
Fabien.

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Thu 19-Jan-12 11:05 PM
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#15. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

The more I look at yesterday's session, the more convinced I am that it's slight movement on my part, combined with a shallow depth of field. While I try hard to be stable, I do have to move around as the dog does, and sometimes I'm not capable enough of getting settled in time for the shot. Hopefully time and practice will help here.

I'm certainly nowhere near jumping to the conclusion that there's a technical issue with the camera / lens combo.

Back to the drawing board.

Thanks for the critique, it is truly appreciated. I'm going to try to reshoot with some of the ideas presented here, and I'm also going to use a monopod for further stability.

This is a jpg of one of the better shots from yesterday. To my eye, it's clearly got better detail around the eye, and the focus point was just to the right of the eye.




Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Fri 20-Jan-12 02:21 AM
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#16. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 15


Seattle, WA, US
          

This is a good one. If the focus point was to the right of the eye, that is a good spot because there is a good white-to-black transition that is a good focus target.

A monopod would help if you think you have forward-backward stability problems while using the thin DOF. Switching the camera to continuous focus might also help with that.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, 50mm f/1.4 D,
17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Fri 20-Jan-12 11:06 AM
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#18. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 16
Fri 20-Jan-12 11:07 AM by RLDubbya

US
          

Hi Joseph,

Just to be sure I understand you: in the metadata I posted, focus mode is AF-C, 9 point. Are you suggesting a different mode?

I do have a monopod, and will attempt to make better use of it in these situations. You're correct in that I need help with stability, in more senses than one!

Thanks,

Bob

>This is a good one. If the focus point was to the right of
>the eye, that is a good spot because there is a good
>white-to-black transition that is a good focus target.
>
>A monopod would help if you think you have forward-backward
>stability problems while using the thin DOF. Switching the
>camera to continuous focus might also help with that.
>
>---------+---------+---------+---------+
>Joseph K
>Seattle, WA, USA
>
>D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, 50mm
>f/1.4 D,
>17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX
>

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JosephK Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his excellent and frequent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community in the Nikonians spirit. Nikonian since 17th Apr 2006Fri 20-Jan-12 09:48 PM
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#21. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 18


Seattle, WA, US
          

>Just to be sure I understand you: in the metadata I posted,
>focus mode is AF-C, 9 point. Are you suggesting a different
>mode?

No, I made the assumption that you were using AF-S. However, if you are thinking that there is enough forwards-backwards motion between you and the dog to have focus problems at f/1.8, make sure you keep the AF activated during the entire shutter release if you are using the AF-ON button.

---------+---------+---------+---------+
Joseph K
Seattle, WA, USA

D700, D200, D70S, 24-70mm f/2.8, VR 70-200mm f/2.8 II, 50mm f/1.4 D,
17-55mm f/2.8 DX, 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 VR, 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 DX

  

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Fabien65 Registered since 19th Jan 2012Fri 20-Jan-12 06:48 AM
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#17. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 15
Fri 20-Jan-12 07:00 AM by Fabien65

FR
          

While I try hard to be stable, I do
>have to move around as the dog does, and sometimes I'm not
>capable enough of getting settled in time for the shot.
>Hopefully time and practice will help here.

Yes, i understand, I have two Belgium shepherds, they are always moving..it’s not easy to shoot at the good time, at the right place!
I have uploaded for you one picture of my dog in my gallery, but I don’t know the way to show you..

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Fri 20-Jan-12 11:09 AM
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#19. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 17


US
          

Fabien,

Awesome shot of Tropic - I'm assuming that's his/her name?

Thanks, hopefully I can get to be that good someday with my efforts.

Bob

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Fabien65 Registered since 19th Jan 2012Fri 20-Jan-12 11:33 AM
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#20. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 19
Fri 20-Jan-12 11:34 AM by Fabien65

FR
          

>Fabien,
>
>Awesome shot of Tropic - I'm assuming that's his/her name?
>
>Thanks, hopefully I can get to be that good someday with my
>efforts.
>
>Bob

Bob, Thank you very much,
Yes, his name is Tropic
I wanted to take the picture in the morning, because of the special light:
the sun is very low and gives a particular “gold color” to my dog.
I had to increase slightly the contrast with photoshop because I thought the picture was a bit overexposed.

I asked him to not move…and he was O.K. for a handle of seconds! Good dog!

your shot is awesome too, not easy to be fast enough and think at all we have to do for a good picture!


  

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billD80 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Sat 21-Jan-12 03:47 PM
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#25. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 15


US
          


>
>This is a jpg of one of the better shots from yesterday. To
>my eye, it's clearly got better detail around the eye, and the
>focus point was just to the right of the eye.
>
>

Your focus is fine. In close-up portraiture, I use AF-S mode, with a single point, pick what I really want in focus, press half-way, recompose and shoot.

BUT, at really wide apertures, even the slightest movement closer or further from the subject means what WAS in focus won't be. I still like this technique, but one just has to be extra careful.

www.billkeane.zenfolio.com

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Sat 21-Jan-12 05:24 PM
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#26. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 25


US
          

Thanks Bill, appreciate the advice.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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amalalin Gold Member Nikonian since 12th Sep 2008Sat 21-Jan-12 03:31 PM
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#24. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 0


providence, US
          

I very much enjoy your pictures. I've gone to your blog to view more. I don't have any further suggestions. I use the same lens and find staying around 4 5
to 5.6 gives me better shots whle maimtainig good bokah it's a nice lens. I used it for my grand daughters 2nd birthday and got some good shots of kids going wild at Gymboree!!

Thanks again.

Linda

enjoy the journey

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Sat 21-Jan-12 05:25 PM
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#27. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 24


US
          

>I very much enjoy your pictures. I've gone to your blog to
>view more. I don't have any further suggestions. I use the
>same lens and find staying around 4 5
>to 5.6 gives me better shots whle maimtainig good bokah it's a
>nice lens. I used it for my grand daughters 2nd birthday and
>got some good shots of kids going wild at Gymboree!!
>
>Thanks again.
>
>Linda
>
>
Awwwww, thanks so much for the kind words, Linda.

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Clint S Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jan 2011Sun 22-Jan-12 07:29 PM
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#28. "RE: Help with this image"
In response to Reply # 27


Chula Vista, US
          

This was one of the problems I had when I first shot with the D7000 and something I think some many blame on front/back focusing. What I learned was the focus point(s)and exposure metering interact, the focusing choices did not work as I antipated, and it is possible the camera focuses but not on the exact location expected. The presupposed focusing error is compounded when using very shallow depth of field.

In Thom Hogans D7000 Guide on pages 402-404 is a summary of the focusing alternatives. Basically he states that in AF S Auto Area, AF C Dynamic/Auto area/3D, AF A Dynamic/Auto area/3D the camera ends up selecting the focus point. As I learned (and believe is demonstrated by your photos), in these modes the focusing point may be different than I intended.

So I now use AF A, C, or S in single point when shooting narrow depth of field photos.

If I use a Dynamic are (typically 9 point) I will most often use spot metering and use exposure compensation to get the correct exposure when needed.

I now get what I expect. And if not concerned with narrow depth of field and shooting fast moving subjects I use AF C Auto area /3D with center-weighted metering, and have been amazed at the capabilities of the camera.

I highly suggest Thom Hogans D7000 Guide.

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Forums Lobby GET TO KNOW YOUR CAMERA & MASTER IT Nikon D7100, D7000 (Public) topic #15507 Previous topic | Next topic


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