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tekneektom Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Nov 2011Sat 03-Dec-11 08:39 PM
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"Uploading Photos from D7000"


Land O Lakes, US
          

I was recently watching a video tutorial regarding LightRoom and the tutorial instructor said that you should never upload photos from your camera with a USB cord, rather always use the SDHC card and isert it in a reader. This seems a bit counterintuitive to me. When comparing the USB male/female adapter on the cord & camera and SDHC card, it appears to me that the USB adapter is made for continuous insertion while the SDHC card seems significantly more fragile.

Is there a correct or preferred method?

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lautry Silver Member
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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Sat 03-Dec-11 08:50 PM
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#1. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 0


Panama City Beach, US
          

I have uploaded a lot of pictures via the usb cable to my windows seven computer and deleted them from the camera also using the usb cable. I have never had a problem. What was the instructor's reason?
Larry

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tekneektom Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Nov 2011Sat 03-Dec-11 09:07 PM
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#3. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 1


Land O Lakes, US
          

The instructor didn't say why. He was just emphatic that you shouldn't use a usb connection.

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 03-Dec-11 09:04 PM
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#2. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat 03-Dec-11 09:04 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          


There are a few reasons why using a card reader might be preferable to connecting the camera via USB. Not all of them apply to every photographer, but enough apply in my case that I always use a reader...

+ you can keep shooting on a second card while uploading from the first;
+ you don't drain the camera battery;
+ you avoid any (remote?) possibility of harming the camera through misconnection or electrical problems;
+ you avoid wear and tear on the camera USB socket and door;
+ upload speed may be faster.

There is some evidence to suggest that deleting images from a card with a computer (whether the card is in a reader or in a USB-connected camera) is not best practice. Anyone doing that should probably format the card in-camera afterwards.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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tekneektom Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Nov 2011Sat 03-Dec-11 09:10 PM
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#4. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 2


Land O Lakes, US
          

"There is some evidence to suggest that deleting images from a card with a computer (whether the card is in a reader or in a USB-connected camera) is not best practice. Anyone doing that should probably format the card in-camera afterwards."

This is the most compelling reason I've heard. Thanks.

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 03-Dec-11 09:19 PM
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#5. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 4


Paignton, GB
          

You'll note I didn't give that as a reason for using a card reader - I don't delete images off the card when it's in the card reader either, and always format the card in-camera before re-using it

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Netadmin Registered since 16th Apr 2011Sat 03-Dec-11 09:24 PM
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#6. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 5


Fenwick, CA
          

I have read somewhere (can't find the source) that agrees with Brian's fourth point. You run the risk of damage to the camera in the event of a power surge or some such thing from the computer.

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sun 04-Dec-11 12:54 AM
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#11. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 5


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Brian,

I don't delete images off the card when it's in the card reader either, and always format the card in-camera before re-using it

Well, FWIW, I always move my files from card reader to computer and never reformat my cards.

Regards,
Bill

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 04-Dec-11 08:31 AM
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#18. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 11


Paignton, GB
          

Either way, perhaps the main thing to avoid is "moving" the files to the computer rather than "copying" them. Some transfer (small "t") software has the option of deleting the files from the card as they are written to the computer. That, IMO is dangerous and leaves the door open to losing your images if something goes wrong.

I always copy the files and verify that they are OK (and then back them up to an external drive as well) before doing anything with the card contents. Safety first...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Tue 06-Dec-11 05:39 AM
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#23. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 18


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Brian,

perhaps the main thing to avoid is "moving" the files to the computer rather than "copying" them

No harm except perhaps losing track of what has been copied.
In any case, I have always moved my files and never lost even one.

Regards,
Bill

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 09-Dec-11 12:27 PM
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#25. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 23


New Tampa, US
          

" them
>
>No harm except perhaps losing track of what has been copied.
>In any case, I have always moved my files and never lost even
>one.
>
>Regards,
>Bill
>

Bill,

at list in Windows, if there is an error/warning message pops-up - there will be interruption of "moving" task. you will possible loose the last file, that cause the problem. I always use "copy" with "replace all" if require re-copying and compare properties for original and destinations to account for number of folders and files copied.


Best regards,
Vlad

  

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jmesseder2 Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Aug 2011Mon 12-Dec-11 05:49 AM
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#42. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 18


Gettysburg, US
          

>
>I always copy the files and verify that they are OK (and then
>back them up to an external drive as well) before doing
>anything with the card contents. Safety first...

I have been using Lightroom for a few years, with nary a problem. That said, I first COPY from the SD to LR, renaming and adding keywords and other metadata. Then I COPY from the card to an external drive, this time not changing anything. Finally, I delete all pix from the card and put it back in the camera. My internal drive is backed up to Carbonite.

It's easier - for me - to remove the card from the camera and read this from my computer's reader. On the road, I carry a netbook and an external drive, but it's only to backup. I do not erase the cards, waiting til I get home to do the longer LR, etc., process.

I reformat, when I do it at all, in camera, though with everything being said state, I'm not sure it matters. (In the old days, when removal drives were floppy disks, there always was a fear of drive wear changing format alignment, so formatting in the same drive that would use the disk was more important.)

Maybe I've been lucky, but that's as paranoid as I feel like being, and I've never had any problems that weren't caused by some stupid move by a misguided finger.

John Messeder, JAFPR, MBS
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NDGraham Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Jan 2007Tue 06-Dec-11 01:31 AM
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#20. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 11


Dorval (Montreal), CA
          

Do you use the same card twice or more?
Neill
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http://picasaweb.google.com/NeillDGraham

  

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sabbey51 Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Jan 2010Tue 06-Dec-11 01:53 AM
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#21. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 20
Tue 06-Dec-11 01:55 AM by sabbey51

Saddle river, US
          

There are two reasons to not use the USB cable, neither of them having anything to do with the integrity of your images or safety of your camera:

- using a USB card reader is almost always much faster than using the USB cable-to-camera method.
- using the USB cable-to-camera uses your camera's battery, while the cable method obviously doesn't.

While I suppose the SD is more fragile than a USB cable, and much more expensive, reasonable care in handling should avoid any problems. And the SD card is much less fragile than, for instance, any lens.

In either case, you should reformat the card in the camera and not from your computer.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 06-Dec-11 08:32 AM
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#24. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 20


Paignton, GB
          

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but I have about 6 cards which I rotate through whichver camera(s) I am using. When I remove a card to upload it, I replace it with another and immediatley re-format that one (because it might have last been used in a different camera).

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Fri 09-Dec-11 02:37 PM
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#27. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 24


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Brian,

immediately re-format that one

And you're absolutely sure you have already taken any photos off this card, right?


Bill

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 11-Dec-11 01:10 PM
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#36. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 27


Paignton, GB
          

Well yes - as pointed out in reply #18 above.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sat 03-Dec-11 10:36 PM
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#7. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 0


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Tom,

Since the instructor didn't explain his reasoning it's hard to say.

But using an adapter rather than the USB connection would be a side effect of the advice I give to everyone.

My advice is that your first step is always to get an exact copy of the file from your storage card onto the computer.
That means a copy; not using Nikon Transfer (directly or indirectly), not using Picasa, not doing anything but getting a true copy.
Just use an adapter and copy or move the file to your computer.
Rename if you like, just don't change the file.


Bill

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tekneektom Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Nov 2011Sat 03-Dec-11 10:50 PM
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#8. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 7


Land O Lakes, US
          

Thanks for the feedback. From what I'm reading it would appear that using the HDSC directly into my pc card reader is the way to go.

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Sun 04-Dec-11 12:41 AM
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#9. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 7


US
          

Hey Bill

Are you claiming that using any image file cataloging software alters the image file when transfering files to the computer???

I use Lightroom and it was my understanding that importing image files just copied files from the memory card to the computer's hard-drive.

Respectfully,
Frank

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sun 04-Dec-11 12:51 AM
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#10. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 9


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Frank,

I don't know one way or the other about LightRoom.
It's something you could easily test by first copying a file, then having LightRoom copy it; and compare the two files.

Regards,
Bill

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Sun 04-Dec-11 03:50 AM
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#12. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Bill

Just what does Nikon Transfer and/or Picasa change in image files, making it not a true copy, when copying from memory card to hard-disk???

Respectfully,
Frank

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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gpoole Platinum Member Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004Sun 04-Dec-11 04:04 AM
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#13. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 12


Farmington Hills, US
          

with Nikon transfer you can alter and add to the meta data in the image file. The image portion is not changed. Personally I don't see that modifying the meta data on the way through is dangerous.

Gary in SE Michigan, USA. Co-organizer of the Southern Michigan Chapter
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
D4, D800e, D300, D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sun 04-Dec-11 04:10 AM
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#14. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 13


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Gary,

This might not be so any more, but previous versions of Nikon Transfer has bugs that corrupted certain metadata.
I stand by the concept of not modifying the original in any way.

For fun, email me a file that you transferred with Nikon Transfer for inspection; and the "original" if possible for comparison.


Bill

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gpoole Platinum Member Nikonian since 14th Feb 2004Sun 04-Dec-11 04:45 AM
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#15. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 14


Farmington Hills, US
          

I've not used Nikon Transfer in several months. I now use Photo Mechanic instead, and always have added meta data during the transfer. I've taken and transferred about 26,000 images and I've never had any file corruption with either program. Maybe based on your comment I have been lucky.

I don't have any original files, as all my transferred images are now on 3 or 4 different hard disks and I've reformatted the cards since. I could easily concoct a comparison experiment, but I suspect you could do that easily yourself as well.

I've always used an external card reader. When I transfer files to my desktop system I used Transfer or Photo Mechanic to create copies on both an internal drive and my external photo backup drive. On the road I transfer my images to my laptop's hard drive and when I get home sync the laptop with my desktop computer and then copy the new files to my external drive as well. On the road I also copy the cards to a HyperDrive ColorSpace drive. The ColorSpace makes straight copies of the memory card. I also try not to format my memory cards until the images are safely on my desktop and photo backup drive. I've never had to go back to the ColorSpace or memory cards except to recover deleted images caused by my own stupidity.

My images also get backed up to another drive that I use to back up all new and changed files on both my laptop and desktop.

Gary in SE Michigan, USA. Co-organizer of the Southern Michigan Chapter
Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera.
D4, D800e, D300, D90, F6, FM3a (black), FM2n (chrome)
YashicaMat 124, Graflex Speed Graphic 4x5
My Nikonians Gallery & Our Chapter Gallery

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sun 04-Dec-11 05:30 AM
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#16. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 15
Sun 04-Dec-11 06:07 AM by bclaff

Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Gary,

I don't have any recent copy of Nikon Transfer or any such software.
Next time you think of it you could do the test yourself or email me to collaborate on something.
(I have some very detailed dumping software.)

Just because the image isn't corrupt that doesn't mean that all the metadata is intact.
Also, when you update to a new version of any software, "all bets are off" as "bugs happen".

Regards,
Bill
Edited to add: FWIW the metadata in the images in your gallery using Capture NX 2.2.4 W look fine.

Visit me at My site

  

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Fri 09-Dec-11 03:07 PM
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#29. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 16


Atlanta, US
          

I've transferred over 100,000 images using Nikon Transfer. I've never had any issues or problems. Camera data transfers nicely unless I choose to change it or add data while downloading.

The current version of Nikon Transfer 2 is not available as a stand alone program. The program is embedded in Nikon View 2 which is a free download. Transfer is a separate program that can be run from outside of View but cannot be downloaded and installed from Nikon.

I have probably transferred 50,000 images by USB cable directly from the camera. I have never had a problem with this method, but the issues you might encounter are described above. It is a simple approach that only requires a cable. It is much slower than using a card reader. Card readers with fast cards appear to be 5+ times faster than using the USB cable. I also have an SD slot in my computer that is a card reader and enables fast transfers.

Transfer does provide the options of copying new files only, transferring all files, and deleting or not deleting files after transfer. Transfer can be used with the camera or with a card reader. With either approach it provides support for renaming folders and files and even creating a backup copy in another destination. I never delete files until I have confirmed that files have been transferred and can be opened.

I have lost image a few files using the Cut and Paste approach when the computer froze. As a result, I always copy rather than move files.

Using the card reader approach, I have had one problem with the D7000. In that situation the camera appeared to recognize the card but it may not have been properly seated so the camera wrote to card 2. I have also seen lost cards and bent CF card pins due to "user error" when cards are removed from the camera, so my take is the card reader does involve slightly more risk than a cable transfer.

Bill correctly points out that if you reformat the card in the camera, it is possible to delete images unintentionally. It is also possible to forget to reformat and be left with a full or nearly full card (I've experienced this). So my approach is I always reformat int eh camera immediately after downloading images and confirming that they are all correctly downloaded. In most cases this is also after making a backup copy.

I have recently started using Photo Mechanic for keywording and applying other data. I do not use it for downloading at this time but might in the future.


Eric Bowles
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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 09-Dec-11 12:37 PM
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#26. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 9


New Tampa, US
          

>Are you claiming that using any image file cataloging software
>alters the image file when transfering files to the
>computer???
>

I just started to work with LR, but from watching tutorials I found that with certain preferences set up the files will be padded with additional information, like Copyright protection etc.., But it's NON-DISTRUCTIVE edits, JPEG not being recompressed to lose any information or (RAW files). As far as I understood only XMP data (it's something additional to the image data) is being modified in metadata.

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Fri 09-Dec-11 03:01 PM
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#28. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 26


US
          

>>Are you claiming that using any image file cataloging
>software
>>alters the image file when transfering files to the
>>computer???
>>
>
>I just started to work with LR, but from watching tutorials I
>found that with certain preferences set up the files will be
>padded with additional information, like Copyright protection
>etc.., But it's NON-DISTRUCTIVE edits, JPEG not being
>recompressed to lose any information or (RAW files). As far as
>I understood only XMP data (it's something additional to the
>image data) is being modified in metadata.


Hey Vlad

This is exactly what I was trying to get at when I posted and obviously did not communcate the idea effectively. Since no one expressed that metadata was image data instead of additional infomation added to the image data I understood it to mean additional XMP data as you say.

It is my understanding of the discussion in this thread is that the software not only uses the operating system's copy command but may corrupt a file when adding data like Keywords because it is writing to the file. I don't know if the concept is true or not as any file comparison by me using Windows is unsatisfying.

I too use Lightroom 3, to transfer my RAW files with additional info of file name change and Keywords. My understanding or confusion is the image edits are non-destructive but adding Keyword data can or cannot be destructive. Some sites write about the data being included with the file and others say the Keyword data is added as a sidecar file depending on format used.

Since so many amateurs and professionals use Lightroom for these purposes I am not too concerned. But since reading about this warning any images that I think are keepers I will just copy a straight backup file to be safe.

BTW if you haven't already read this you might like this Link:
http://mansurovs.com/how-to-organize-pictures-in-lightroom-3#more-13115

I think I'll checkout Youtube for some worthy video tutorials.



Respectfully,
Frank

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Fri 09-Dec-11 03:13 PM
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#30. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 28


Atlanta, US
          

My understanding is Nikon does not use or create XMP data, so it is originated during the download by Lightroom or a similar product. The fields and any data in those fields are all outside of Nikon. Nikon does create an embedded JPEG and embedded EXIF data that is part of the image file. The embedded JPEG is used for the thumbnail displayed on the LCD as well as for the histogram. Some programs - like Nikon Transfer and Photo Mechanic - allow editing of that EXIF data while maintaining the original structure and image file integrity. But if you are editing EXIF, it is not lossless as the image data is.

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Fri 09-Dec-11 05:24 PM
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#32. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 30
Fri 09-Dec-11 06:49 PM by SaurianFire

US
          

>My understanding is Nikon does not use or create XMP data, so
>it is originated during the download by Lightroom or a similar
>product. The fields and any data in those fields are all
>outside of Nikon. Nikon does create an embedded JPEG and
>embedded EXIF data that is part of the image file. The
>embedded JPEG is used for the thumbnail displayed on the LCD
>as well as for the histogram. Some programs - like Nikon
>Transfer and Photo Mechanic - allow editing of that EXIF data
>while maintaining the original structure and image file
>integrity. But if you are editing EXIF, it is not lossless as
>the image data is.


This is more or less what I was saying. Programs that manipulate, add or change the file can corrupt data or the file.

XMP data, which is used by many programs, can be imbedded in the image file or added as a sidecar file. As I have just been reading Adobe imbeds this information into the file.
http://www.adobe.com/products/xmp/

Now that I think about it: How many times have I read EXIF files showing the name of the software used right at the top of the EXIF file??? This information is imbedded in the image file along with the Nikon information.

EDIT:

It was not my intention to mislead anyone but it seems Adobe uses the term XMP data and file loosely.

There is some metadata imbeded into the image file but data to manipulate or adjust the appearance of a file is also called XMP or an XMP file that is not imbeded into files so there is no image data changes.

You can read here how Lightroom handles XMP data that adjusts the image.
http://digitalphotobuzz.com/saving-xmp-files-in-lightroom

Respectfully,
Frank

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Fri 09-Dec-11 11:23 PM
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#34. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 32


US
          

To correct my confusion with how Lightroom handles metadata here is a quote from Adobe's hep for Lightroom.

"About metadata and XMP

Metadata is a set of standardized information about a photo, such as the author’s name, resolution, color space, copyright, and keywords applied to it. For example, most digital cameras attach some basic information about a file, such as height, width, file format, and the time the image was taken. Lightroom also supports the information standard developed by the International Press Telecommunications Council (IPTC) to identify transmitted text and images. This standard includes entries for descriptions, keywords, categories, credits, and origins. You can use metadata to streamline your workflow and organize your files.

File information is stored using the Extensible Metadata Platform (XMP) standard. XMP is built on XML. In the case of camera raw files that have a proprietary file format, XMP isn’t written into the original files. To avoid file corruption, XMP metadata is stored in a separate file called a sidecar file.

For all other file formats supported by Lightroom (JPEG, TIFF, PSD, and DNG), XMP metadata is written into the files in the location specified for that data. XMP facilitates the exchange of metadata between Adobe applications and across publishing workflows. For example, you can save metadata from one file as a template, and then import the metadata into other files.

Metadata that is stored in other formats, such as EXIF, IPTC (IIM), and TIFF, is synchronized and described with XMP so that it can be more easily viewed and managed."

http://livedocs.adobe.com/en_US/Lightroom/1.0/help.html?content=WS638E3AC9-A04C-4445-A0D3-F7D8BA5CDE37.html

Now it is easy to understand why partial explanations are so contradictory or confusing.

Respectfully,
Frank

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Fri 09-Dec-11 11:34 PM
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#35. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 32


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Frank,

Programs that manipulate, add or change the file can corrupt data or the file.

Absolutely agreed.

And I continue to remind people that no software, even beloved commercial software, is bug-free.
Therefore, the only was to ensure that your original image is fully intact is to avoid all software that manipulates the file.

That said, there are compelling reasons to categorize or tag our files.
So the next best thing is to validate your software by checking some output against a good decoder such as ExifTool.
If no errors are reported then that version of manipulation software is most likely OK.
But the paranoid would test again whenever there is a software update.

Regards,
Bill

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Fri 09-Dec-11 04:29 PM
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#31. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 28


New Tampa, US
          

but may corrupt a file when adding data like Keywords
>because it is writing to the file.

I agree with Eric. Unless one cannot afford to loose an image (i do not know situation, like a wedding photographer, even then, he/she should have extra images taken just in case) - it's too much overhead to do everything manually. I tend to let professionally designed programs(software) to do what they designed to do. and, if during that process, i will lose some images (1%? 2%? of total valume - No! several images out of tousands it's a fraction of a procent) i will live with than. I might even live with that never knowing i lost some images due to corruption. LOL

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 04-Dec-11 08:26 AM
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#17. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 7


Paignton, GB
          

>My advice is that your first step is always to get an exact
>copy of the file from your storage card onto the computer.
>That means a copy...

Yes, that's what I always do. Whether or not using a type of transfer software does anything to change the data, a straight copy will not - and thus another possible point of failure is eliminated.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Uscbryan Registered since 01st Jun 2010Tue 06-Dec-11 12:12 AM
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#19. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 17


Irvine, US
          

I have never heard that uploading from the camera is good or bad. I did read a few places that it's always good to format the card in camera after you upload the photos. I have never used my camera to upload as most newer computers seem to have a built in card reader, or at least the Sony Laptop and Dell desktop I purchased in the last 2 or 3 years did. The only downsides I can see to uploading from the camera is the wear from plugging and unplugging the cable and maybe if the battery dies while you are uploading something could be corrupted.

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Tue 06-Dec-11 02:41 AM
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#22. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 19


New Tampa, US
          

Some of the reasons are listed above, but for me

#1. the most hard-learned lesson, - tripping over usb cable sets camera airborn and in some cases damages USB connector.

#2 reason - mass storage connection via USB takes away both cards from camera - there is nothing you can do or shoot as cards are not available to the camera.

but 31 is a biatch (if you know what i mean)
Best regards,
Vlad

  

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km6xz Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Portraits and Urban Photography Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2009Fri 09-Dec-11 08:48 PM
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#33. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 22


St Petersburg, RU
          

There are a number of reasons using a card reader is preferred by many photographers. As already mentioned, it is very fast and does not tie up the camera while transferring files.
Another is the mini-USB cable is a real weak spot in any system that depends on them. The contacts are much smaller and fragile than the contacts on a SD card or a full size USB connector.
For those who cycle a number of SD cards through their camera during a high frame count session or event, it makes little sense to have to insert each one back into the camera and have the camera tied up for 4-20 times longer. I use smaller cards to reduce the loss when(it will happen eventually) a card is corrupted or fails. I would not have the patience getting home a 6am and having to wait for cycling all the cards used in a night to slowly transfer. More than one reader can be used at the same time to speed things up, assuming a copy function is used instead of registering each image in the LR database.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

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DeanAZ Moderator Expert nature photographer Nikonian since 28th Apr 2007Sun 11-Dec-11 03:13 PM
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#37. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 11-Dec-11 03:18 PM by DeanAZ

Phoenix, US
          

I did the EXIF comparison Bill (bclaff) suggested as I use Nikon Transfer, ViewNX2 and CNX2. I used PhotooME to examine the data. What I see by comparing the copied source NEF with the transfered NEF is that there are only a couple of changes made during the transfer. One is the software version, naturally this is updated from the camera firmware version to the Nikon Transfer 2.2 W. There are also changes made to the binary data in the MakerNote (927C) tag. Another interesting change is the section for the FlashInfo (00A8) is omitted from the EXIF info if the flash is not activated but is present in both files if the flash fired. This is a different tag from the Flash (9209) tag which is present in both files.

Further editing in CNX2 modifies the EXIF info as well. I don't see where any data is really being lost about the image by using the Transfer application. I would expect that the EXIF information should contain the relevant information about the current state of the file and I see no reason to ever go back to the 'as shot' file's EXIF to learn anything I don't currently know.

If there are bugs in the transfer application I can see that this would be an anomaly and not something I need to adjust my workflow to accommodate. It would be prudent to evaluate new versions of your transfer application prior to running production files through your workflow.

Dean
Phoenix, Arizona USA
Nikonians Team Member
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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sun 11-Dec-11 04:12 PM
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#38. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 37


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Dean,

I'm glad you did the test.
I'm not familiar with PhotooME. I know ExifTool digs pretty deep.

One is the software version, naturally this is updated from the camera firmware version to the Nikon Transfer 2.2 W.

Actually, this is not correct according to the Exif specification, but it's very common.
From the Exif Specification (bold is my emphasis):
"This tag records the name and version of the software or firmware of the camera or image input device used to generate the image."

Here's an example of a post regard a more serious problem that once existed in Nikon Transfer: Bug in Nikon Transfer 6.2.7 W

For those following this thread, current/recent version(s) of Picasa definitely has/have some minor problems.

Regards,
Bill

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DeanAZ Moderator Expert nature photographer Nikonian since 28th Apr 2007Sun 11-Dec-11 05:58 PM
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#40. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 38


Phoenix, US
          

Bill,

I sent you an email. Here is the link to the free PhotoME app. If I dig deep, I'm sure I can find more difference than I've described so far.

http://www.photome.de/home.html

Dean
Phoenix, Arizona USA
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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Sun 11-Dec-11 07:58 PM
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#41. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 40


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Dean,

Thanks for providing the files for inspection.

Yes, there are more changes than meets the eye.
Fortunately all the metadata is properly formatted, which is my chief concern.
Loss of metadata is only a secondary concern, to me.

Here's an annotated "diff" of the "copy" versus the "TXFR" metadata.


***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
00000008: TIFF directory #=27
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
00000008: TIFF directory #=28 Nikon Transfer has one more entry in this TIFF directory
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
Software Ver.1.03
DateTime 2011:12:11 11:04:21
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
Software Nikon Transfer 2.2 W It's not quite to Exif Specification to change the Software tag
DateTime 2011:12:11 11:05:16 I would not have expected Nikon Transfer to change the DateTime
XMP The entry added by Nikon Transfer is the XMP information
<?xpacket begin="???" id="W5M0MpCehiHzreSzNTczkc9d"?>
<x:xmpmeta xmlns:x="adobe:ns:meta/" x:xmptk="XMP Core 4.1.1">
   <rdf:RDF xmlns:rdf="http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#">
      <rdf:Description rdf:about=""
            xmlns:MicrosoftPhoto="http://ns.microsoft.com/photo/1.0">
         <MicrosoftPhoto:Rating>0</MicrosoftPhoto:Rating>
      </rdf:Description>
   </rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>

<?xpacket end="w"?>
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
00000258: TIFF directory #=33
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
00000C0A: TIFF directory #=32 Nikon Transfer has one fewer entry in this TIFF directory
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
SensitivityType 2 This entry relating to ISO was dropped
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
00000478: MakerNote header v02.10
0000048A: TIFF directory #=57
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
00000F9E: MakerNote header v02.00 Nikon Transfer is writing out an older version of the MakerNote than the camera
00000FB0: TIFF directory #=53 Nikon Transfer has four fewer entries (dropped 6 added 2) in this TIFF directory
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
FlashSetting NORMAL Dropped by Nikon Transfer
FlashType Dropped by Nikon Transfer
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
FlashExposureComp 0 Dropped by Nikon Transfer
FlashExposureBracketValue 0 Dropped by Nikon Transfer
FlashBktCompensation 0 Dropped by Nikon Transfer
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
FlashInfo FlashInfo v01.04 Nikon Transfer has dropped detailed Flash Information
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
0000410C: TIFF directory #=7 Nikon Transfer has one fewer entry in this TIFF directory
XResolution 300
YResolution 300
YCbCrPositioning Co-sited Dropped by Nikon Transfer
00004178: Jpeg File - 570x375
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
NikonScanIFD Nikon Scan @00004BF0 Added by Nikon Transfer
CaptureData22 14,0,0,0 Added by Nikon Transfer
00004B92: TIFF directory #=6
XResolution 72 Nikon Transfer changed the resolution from 300 to 72
YResolution 72 Nikon Transfer changed the resolution from 300 to 72
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
00028BFC: TIFF directory #=8
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
00000E2E: TIFF directory #=9 Nikon Transfer has one more entry in this TIFF directory
*****

***** _1DA8159-copy.txt
XResolution 300
YResolution 300
YCbCrPositioning Co-sited
00028C74: TIFF directory #=17
***** _1DA8159-TXFR.TXT
Orientation Normal Nikon Transfer added the Orientation tag
XResolution 72 Nikon Transfer changed the resolution from 300 to 72
YResolution 72 Nikon Transfer changed the resolution from 300 to 72
YCbCrPositioning Centered Nikon Transfer changed this from Co-sited to Centered
00000EB0: TIFF directory #=18
*****


Regards,
Bill

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Sun 11-Dec-11 04:12 PM
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#39. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 37


US
          

> What I see by comparing the copied source NEF with
>the transfered NEF is that there are only a couple of changes
>made during the transfer.

I will let Bill speak for himself but this is the point.

When you copy a file nothing is changed or added when there is any change there is always a chance for corruption. This is not to say one has to change their workflow because the chances are high. Some are just more prudent than others.

Adobe doesn't change propreitary RAW files to avoid file corruption but does write to all other file types including DNG. It seems metadata in the public file types is more uniform.

Respectfully,
Frank

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SaurianFire Registered since 11th Feb 2011Tue 13-Dec-11 01:22 PM
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#43. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 39


US
          

Hey Bill

Lightroom version 3.6 has been released. Reading some of the bug fixes I thought were interesting:

Lightroom 3.6 Bugs – Fixed

•Lightroom does not write to the correct metadata fields after editing capture time

•Lightroom crashes when saving keyword to file

•Certain JPG files appear to unsupported or damaged upon import into Lightroom

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2011/12/lightroom-3-6-and-camera-raw-6-6-now-available.html

Respectfully,
Frank

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Tue 13-Dec-11 01:31 PM
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#44. "RE: Uploading Photos from D7000"
In response to Reply # 43


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Frank,



Regards,
Bill

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