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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Mon 21-Nov-11 03:13 PM
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"D7000 Photos for focus analysis"


Panama City Beach, US
          

I posted earlier in another thread about not totally trusting my D7000 to focus properly, like "Tack Sharp". I was advised to modify my camera settings and remove my Zeikos UV (pos) filter. I set up a focus test of sorts with the D7000 on a tripod, 18-200mm lens at 34mm, 10 feet from subject to acquire focus. I shot the same photos in aperture priority at f stops of 11, 16, 22, 8, 5.6 and timed at 5.6. In every photo the camera was set to af-s, single point and the acquired focus was the grapefruit on the pump house, 10 feet away from the camera and the pic recomposed where the focus point indicates. Here are some photos for analysis. I hope they upload ok, as they looked much better on my screen before i downsized. They have not been modified or altered except for file size. The timer pics bring forth another question regarding focus acquisition and recomposing.
Thanks for the help














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Reply message RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis
briantilley Moderator
21st Nov 2011
1
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lautry Silver Member
21st Nov 2011
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hawaii502160
21st Nov 2011
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lautry Silver Member
22nd Nov 2011
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briantilley Moderator
21st Nov 2011
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lautry Silver Member
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greenwing Gold Member
21st Nov 2011
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briantilley Moderator
21st Nov 2011
6
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mikesrc Silver Member
21st Nov 2011
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lautry Silver Member
22nd Nov 2011
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lautry Silver Member
22nd Nov 2011
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28th Nov 2011
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22nd Nov 2011
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23rd Nov 2011
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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 21-Nov-11 03:48 PM
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#1. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 21-Nov-11 03:51 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          

I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for us to comment on. Can you explain?

The grapefruit may not be a great AF target. It looks to be smaller than a single AF sensor, and the AF could be locking on to detail in the surface it's resting on, at a slightly different distance.

By the way, images 1, 4 and 5 were all taken with the same settings of f/5.6 at 1/1250th.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Mon 21-Nov-11 06:51 PM
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#2. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 1


Panama City Beach, US
          

Sorry,
the reason for the posts stem from a different thread on focus and the D7000. I had taken a picture, posted it and it seemed like nothing was in focus. As a matter of fact i did not think any of several hundred photos i have taken with the d7000 were really tack sharp so that invoked many responses with a list of steps for me to take to achieve better focus and try again with some posts for analysis. So I set up the camera as prescribed with what i thought to be no reason for the camera not to focus correctly, took some pics and reposted. So I was asking the experts on this forum to critique the pics and tell me their assessment of my camera and lens.
I am an amateur wanting to get better. This is my first DSLR. My wife was shooting sharper pics than me with her point and shoot P80 and I was frustrated. That's how this all came about. The postings did not come out in the order I uploaded and I forgot they were not labeled. Here is just one at f22 where the grapefruit should be at the hyperfocal.
The posts at 5.6 were done 1 normal and two on a timer. On a tripod, no motion, no shaking, no excuses. All pics were on tripod. This f22 pic is the best pic I have shot sharp wise. IMO.
Thanks


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hawaii502160 Registered since 11th Feb 2011Mon 21-Nov-11 08:28 PM
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#3. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 2


Cleveland, US
          

When I am shooting on a tripod, I shoot with the mirror up/delay turned on. This will eliminate any possible vibrations from the mirror "slap".

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 12:01 AM
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#9. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 3


Panama City Beach, US
          

Thanks. I saw the mirror up setting on the mode dial and I thought I saw a remote control setting for that. I will have to read up and find it again to understand how to use this feature.
Larry

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 21-Nov-11 08:33 PM
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#4. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 2


Paignton, GB
          

OK - a couple more questions first.

When you re-compose, what are you doing to make sure the camera does not re-focus?

I assume you have VR turned off on your 18-200mm lens? VR should be off with this lens when on a solid tripod.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Mon 21-Nov-11 11:54 PM
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#7. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 4


Panama City Beach, US
          

VR turned off. Focus acquired via shutter release half depression, beep activated to insure no premature release until full depression. Same procedure on timer shots. I have yet to understand how to acquire focus and recompose using remote. Open for suggestions. I am always looking to learn and improve. Thanks
Larry

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greenwing Gold Member Nikonian since 18th May 2006Mon 21-Nov-11 09:24 PM
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#5. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 21-Nov-11 09:25 PM by greenwing

Yorkshire, GB
          

By focussing on the fruit, and then recomposing so the fruit is near the edge of the picture, you're ensuring that the fruit will not be sharp. At this time of the evening, the maths escapes me, and moreso the ability to explain it. Something to do with Pythagoras, I think.

Chris

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 21-Nov-11 09:38 PM
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#6. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 5
Mon 21-Nov-11 09:39 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          


This effect is usually exaggerated - to understand why needs a bit of trigonometry.

The focus distance in this case was 10 feet. It looks like the vertical distance between the grapefruit and the centre of the image might be 2 feet. If so, using the tangent and cosine functions, we can calculate that the difference in distance due to the re-composition is less than 2 inches.

That is well within the depth of field at the distance and a focal length of 34mm - even at maximum aperture.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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mikesrc Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd May 2009Mon 21-Nov-11 11:56 PM
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#8. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 5


OKLAHOMA CITY, US
          

I think I would have used a watermelon. Larger target:-)

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 12:24 AM
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#12. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 8


Panama City Beach, US
          

LOL about the watermelon. Sometimes all a fella has is a grapefruit. Good point about a larger target, though.
Larry

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 12:09 AM
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#10. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 5


Panama City Beach, US
          

You got me on this one. I didn't know about that. I looked on my hyperfocal table, put the grapefruit at the distance with consideration of lens length and f stop and fired. With hyperfocal at 10 ft, everything between 5ft and infinity was supposed to be "in-focus" Grapefruit, buildings, the whole shebang.
Thanks
Larry

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 12:16 AM
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#11. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 10


Panama City Beach, US
          

I still think the f22 was my best focus shot. If so do you think this is decently in focus or could I or the camera have done better. You won't hurt my feelings by being semi-brutally honest. That's what I am here for.
Larry

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 28-Nov-11 12:21 PM
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#25. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 10


Atlanta, US
          

You need to be a little careful assuming hyperfocal tables show what is "In Focus". While directionally correct, they really are showing "apparently in focus". The focus point is still the sharpest and the foreground and background are still slightly out of focus.

I find that "focus and recompose" is challenging. The camera is quite good at refocusing quickly and will shift focus if you are not careful. The camera also has the capability to track focus on a subject, so when you recompose the camera does not know whether you are recomposing or the subject is moving and needs to be tracked.

I find the center sensor is the fastest and best for AF. In problem situations, I move to the center sensor. I do the same for testing.

As suggested, the edges of any lens tend to be a little soft. So if you put something closer to the edge, good focus can be overshadowed by average lens performance. Most lenses are sharpest in the center and have varying degrees of softness toward the edges.

The 18-200 performs best in the 35-100mm range. The outer limits show a little softness in comparison.

Most lenses perform better stopped down 1-2 stops from wide open. Every lens is a little different. Stopping down provides more depth of field and uses more of the center of the lens - the sharpest area.

I've done some testing of handheld technique, tripod, tripod with a cable, and tripod using mirror lockup and a cable. If you are not using a good tripod, mirror lockup, and a cable release it is tough to get the best possible sharpness. But as Brian's post shows, you can do very well with good technique.


Eric Bowles
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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Mon 28-Nov-11 01:23 PM
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#26. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 25


Panama City Beach, US
          

Thanks for your input. I take from your comments my lens perform better when set away from the extremes. That sounds reasonable and logical to me. I feel better about my camera now that I have printed out some photos and examined them. These photos were very much sharper on print than they appeared on several computer monitors and hdtv's. I am going to hit the books again regarding the procedure of focusing, mirror up, locking focus, recomposing and releasing remotely via remote control or cable. I wish I could find a step by step procedure list somewhere. The process appears awkward to me at this stage of my camera knowledge and skills development. I seem to have trouble with focus lock, recomposing and stepping away from the camera to shoot remotely without the camera refocusing.
Thanks again.
Larry

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 28-Nov-11 01:42 PM
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#27. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 26


Atlanta, US
          

You might want to try the back button auto focus approach. It works particularly well instead of using the shutter release for focus and recompose.

If you try this approach - using the menu - be sure you have a User setting or alternate setting using the shutter release. If you want to hand your camera to someone for a snapshot, you don't want them to fumble the back button focus.



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TheDraftsman Registered since 20th Jan 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 02:20 PM
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#17. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 5


middlesex, US
          

>By focussing on the fruit, and then recomposing so the fruit
>is near the edge of the picture, you're ensuring that the
>fruit will not be sharp. At this time of the evening, the
>maths escapes me, and moreso the ability to explain it.
>Something to do with Pythagoras, I think.
>
>Chris


+1 This is the problem. How can you all expect a sharp image when the
target is now on the edge and not the center of the lens, even if it
is focused properly. Only a good prime could pull it off.

And 1/1250th of a sec? Really? Do you guys really expect a sharp
edge of a photo with a mediocre full range zoom at that speed?

More and More everyday it's very apparent now and I'm convinced that
people complaining of soft photos or focus problems are nothing more
than user error.

Visit Current D90 Set-up.


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J_Harris Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Mar 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 02:58 PM
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#18. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 17


US
          


>+1 This is the problem. How can you all expect a sharp image
>when the
> target is now on the edge and not the center of the lens,
>even if it
> is focused properly. Only a good prime could pull it off.
>
>And 1/1250th of a sec? Really? Do you guys really expect a
>sharp
> edge of a photo with a mediocre full range zoom at that
>speed?
>
>More and More everyday it's very apparent now and I'm
>convinced that
> people complaining of soft photos or focus problems are
>nothing more
> than user error.


Ouch!

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 22-Nov-11 04:00 PM
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#19. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 17


Paignton, GB
          

>+1 This is the problem.

As pointed out above, not in this case. The change in focus distance due to re-composing is well within the Depth of Field.

>And 1/1250th of a sec? Really? Do you guys really expect a sharp
>edge of a photo with a mediocre full range zoom at that speed?

I don't understand this comment. Edge softness because of the lens design is one thing, but (especially when using a tripod) shutter speeds in this range should not cause unsharpness.

>More and More everyday it's very apparent now and I'm convinced
>that people complaining of soft photos or focus problems are
>nothing more than user error.

Some of them might well be, but please remember that not all our members are experts - they come here for help, not to get lectured.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 04:11 PM
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#20. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 17


Panama City Beach, US
          

Well, I asked for a semi-brutal analysis and I got it. I wasn't expecting a sharp image as much as I was wanting the pics analyzed to help me get better so I could produce sharper images. You have provided this analysis and I thank you for it. I posted these pics because it was suggested in the beginners forum to set my camera a different way, take some more pics and then start a new thread. Maybe I should have done this back in the same forum. As an amateur I selected this lens as an upgrade to the two kit lens offered. I did not know this was a mediocre lens not capable of producing a sharp focus when the focal point was placed on edge at 1/1250th.--But I do now.
This was user error by an amateur new to DSLRs, but I seem to be making fewer and fewer errors with the help of books suggested and comments made by users of these forums. I strive to attain the level of your expertise one day.
Thanks again
Larry

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 22-Nov-11 05:36 PM
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#21. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 20
Tue 22-Nov-11 05:56 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          

>I did not know this was a mediocre lens not capable of producing
>a sharp focus when the focal point was placed on edge at 1/1250th.
>--But I do now.

You were right not to know that - because it isn't really true!

Most lenses are a little softer in the corners than the centre - the main exceptions being some "macro" lenses.

As an all-round zoom that does most things pretty well, I'm confident the 18-200mm can provide the sort of image you are seeking. We just need to work together to understand what you can do differently to gain some greater consistency in your images

Edited to add example image...

The shot below was taken with the first version of the 18-200mm DX VR Nikkor, on a D80 camera. It was hand-held with VR on and a focal length of 56mm, using a shutter speed of 1/100th at f/5.6. It was shot in JPG with basic editing in View NX2.

It's not a brilliant photo, but I chose it to illustrate the pretty decent sharpness towards the edges of the frame...



Brian
Welsh Nikonian

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 06:27 PM
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#22. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 21


Panama City Beach, US
          

Thanks for your post. I'm feeling better about my lens, as I thought the photo displayed the type of focus and sharpness I seek. I am all ears and far as learning how.
Larry

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larrycurrlymoe Silver Member Nikonian since 13th Feb 2009Wed 23-Nov-11 01:20 AM
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#23. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 22


Calgary, CA
          

I would take nothing for granted. I am currently on my second D7000, the first had issues with maintaining focus calibratrion, then EV started to drift to the + or - side, the longer the camera was on the further the "drift". Nikon thankfully replaced it 5 months in.
Now my second D7000 along with my 70-300 VR is at Nikon. Nothing was in focus.
I would encourage you to take the bady and a lens to a reputable dealer and have them test it out for you.
I have been driving myself nuts trying to determine what "I" was doing wrong, when it turns out to be the unit.
Certainly mine is not a typical story, but I am certain that there are others out there as well.

Good luck.

Paul T

larrycurrlymoe: not just a funny moniker, I can't dance either!

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slothead Gold Member Nikonian since 12th Aug 2009Sun 27-Nov-11 11:49 AM
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#24. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 23


Frederick, US
          

>I would take nothing for granted. I am currently on my second
>D7000, the first had issues with maintaining focus
>calibratrion, then EV started to drift to the + or - side, the
>longer the camera was on the further the "drift".
>Nikon thankfully replaced it 5 months in.
>Now my second D7000 along with my 70-300 VR is at Nikon.
>Nothing was in focus.
>I would encourage you to take the bady and a lens to a
>reputable dealer and have them test it out for you.
>I have been driving myself nuts trying to determine what
>"I" was doing wrong, when it turns out to be the
>unit.
>Certainly mine is not a typical story, but I am certain that
>there are others out there as well.
>
>Good luck.
>
>Paul T

This is good to know Paul, and I'm going to keep your posting around for a modicum of insurance. Thanks for posting.

Tom
http://tjmanson.smugmug.com
D800, et al.

  

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kentak Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2010Tue 22-Nov-11 03:21 AM
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#13. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

For what it's worth, #4, which is obviously out of focus, should be tossed out of this comparison. According to the EXIF data, the lens focused at 49ft, not 10. The camera must have reacquired focus when you recomposed.

Kent

  

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lautry Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Oct 2011Tue 22-Nov-11 03:34 AM
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#14. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 13


Panama City Beach, US
          

I agree. Can you tell me what software you used to determine the 49ft focus? I have not noticed that in exif data before. I think my hand slipped off the shutter release when recomposing.
Thanks

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kentak Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2010Tue 22-Nov-11 04:26 AM
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#16. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 14


US
          

>I agree. Can you tell me what software you used to determine
>the 49ft focus? I have not noticed that in exif data before. I
>think my hand slipped off the shutter release when
>recomposing.
>Thanks

Hi,

Well, after downloading the file, I opened it with Preview on my Mac. Preview is Apple's general purpose image and PDF viewer that's on all Macs. When viewing an image, I launch Preview's "inspector," and it gives a variety of different info about the image, including any EXIF data it may be able to read. I can also open the image with Aperture 3, which is my preferred editor, and read the EXIF data through it.

Yes, I agree, a momentary letting up on the shutter would probably all that would be needed for the camera to refocus. Easy enough to do.

Good luck with you camera.

Kent

  

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bclaff Silver Member Awarded for multiple contributions for the Resources Nikonian since 26th Oct 2004Tue 22-Nov-11 03:49 AM
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#15. "RE: D7000 Photos for focus analysis"
In response to Reply # 0


Vancouver (WA USA not Canada), US
          

Larry,

I applaud your efforts.

Like Kent in post#13 I found some problems examining the metadata (Exif).

Shot#4 is 49' rather than 10' and shot #5 seems to be the same settings at shot#1 !

#1 FNumber 5.6
#1 ExposureTime 1/1250
#1 LensData 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor@33mm f/4.2 d=10'
#2 FNumber 11
#2 ExposureTime 1/320
#2 LensData 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor@33mm f/4.2 d=10'
#3 FNumber 22
#3 LensData 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor@33mm f/4.2 d=10'
#3 ExposureTime 1/80
#4 FNumber 5.6
#4 ExposureTime 1/1250
#4 LensData 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor@33mm f/4.2 d=49'2"
#5 FNumber 5.6
#5 ExposureTime 1/1250
#5 LensData 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S VR DX Zoom-Nikkor@33mm f/4.2 d=10'


Regards,
Bill

P.S. - Not all "Exif" viewers show distance information.
This output is from my own utility NefUtil.
The primary purpose of NefUtil is statistical analysis of raw files for sensor research, but it's a pretty complete "Exif" utility too.

Visit me at My site

  

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