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Subject: "Focus Points 39 vs 11" Previous topic | Next topic
Garys Registered since 22nd Sep 2009Sat 13-Aug-11 05:34 PM
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"Focus Points 39 vs 11"


Mesa, US
          

When the D7000 was released its 39 focus points were highlighted as an upgrade over the D90. The D7000 also offers the option of choosing 11 focus points. When would it be better to use 11 focus points rather than 39 focus points?

Thanks for your responses in advance.

Gary

----
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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11
Gamecocks Silver Member
13th Aug 2011
1
Reply message RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11
Garys
13th Aug 2011
2
     Reply message RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11
Gamecocks Silver Member
13th Aug 2011
3
          Reply message RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11
Garys
14th Aug 2011
4
               Reply message RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11
luckyphoto Silver Member
14th Aug 2011
5
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briantilley Moderator
14th Aug 2011
6
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Garys
14th Aug 2011
7
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luckyphoto Silver Member
14th Aug 2011
8
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Len Shepherd Gold Member
15th Aug 2011
9
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briantilley Moderator
15th Aug 2011
10
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Vlad_IT Silver Member
19th Oct 2011
11
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briantilley Moderator
19th Oct 2011
12
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Holmes375 Silver Member
19th Oct 2011
13
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Vlad_IT Silver Member
20th Oct 2011
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briantilley Moderator
20th Oct 2011
15
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Holmes375 Silver Member
20th Oct 2011
16
                                   Reply message RE: So When to use 39 Points?
sfbillm Silver Member
20th Oct 2011
17
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Vlad_IT Silver Member
20th Oct 2011
18
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sfbillm Silver Member
20th Oct 2011
19
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Clint S Silver Member
30th Oct 2011
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JohnE Nikon Silver Member
01st Nov 2011
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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Sat 13-Aug-11 08:38 PM
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#1. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat 13-Aug-11 08:44 PM by Gamecocks

Joanna, US
          

I understand that the more focal points the camera has to sort through may slow the AF down somewhat so the 11 point would be for quick focus (p. 210 in manual).

John

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <><

  

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Garys Registered since 22nd Sep 2009Sat 13-Aug-11 10:47 PM
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#2. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 1
Sat 13-Aug-11 10:48 PM by Garys

Mesa, US
          

John:

“a6: Number of Focus Points
Choose the number of focus points available for manual focus-point selection.
Option Description
Choose from the 39 focus points shown at right.
Choose from the 11 focus points shown at right. Use for quick focus-point selection.”

The above is from page 210 in the D7000 manual. This applies to manual focus.

If auto focus is to be used, then 39 points is to be used?


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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Sat 13-Aug-11 11:04 PM
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#3. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 2
Sat 13-Aug-11 11:24 PM by Gamecocks

Joanna, US
          

You certainly are correct regarding the manual focus on that page. But, if that applies to manual focus wouldn't it likely apply to faster AF since the camera is only "checking" a smaller area with the 11 points? I thought I had read that in a review but I could be mistaken. In any event, either should do and I suppose it would then be a personal preference.
I use both in the U settings with AF. Again, my belief is that the smaller number would be less confusing for the camera and quicker focus as the points around the subject would be less (say BIF) and therefore could provide a quicker focus. May be wrong as my ex can verify.

John

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <><

  

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Garys Registered since 22nd Sep 2009Sun 14-Aug-11 01:39 AM
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#4. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 3


Mesa, US
          

John:

Thanks for the response. I will continue to use the 39 focus points.

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Gary

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luckyphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2010Sun 14-Aug-11 01:12 PM
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#5. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 4
Sun 14-Aug-11 01:14 PM by luckyphoto

Port Charlotte, US
          

Hi guys,

A couple minor points. In manual focus mode you only have the option for 9-point or 39-point. There is no 11-point mode on the D7000 that I know of.

In Auto focus mode you have 9-point, 21-point and 39-point mode.

I use 21-point normally for static subjects because it give me a little more precision on where I want to focus. I use 39-point AF if the subject is moving such as a bird in flight.

Maybe someone has tested the difference in focus speed between 9-point, 21-point and 39-point, but all work well for me so I choose the number of points based on what I'm shooting at the time.

Larry

"Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right
....and which is an illusion"

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 14-Aug-11 01:50 PM
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#6. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 5
Sun 14-Aug-11 03:33 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          


Edited for spelling...

I'm afraid there has been some confusion in this thread, probably because the AF system in recent Nikon DSLR's is pretty complex, with lots of options!

>There is no 11-point mode on the D7000 that I know of.

The D7000 does offer the option of selecting manually from all 39 focus points, or from a subset of 11 focus points. This allows faster selection of the desired focus point by the user, via the rear Multi-controller pad. This is set up with Custom Setting a6, as explained on page 210 of the manual.

This choice is completely separate from the AF-Area Mode in use. AF-Area Mode options include Single-point, Dynamic-area with 9-, 21- or 39-points, and others. These are explained on pages 94-95. In this mode, using fewer focus points gives the camera processor less to handle, and can speed up focus tracking of moving subjects.

Finally... in Dynamic-area AF, the camera will use the specified number of focus points (9, 21 or all 39) surrounding whichever single focus point the user has selected.

Really finally... in Manual Focus, Single-point AF is automatically selected by the camera, but the user can still choose which focus point is operative.

I hope that helps...

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Garys Registered since 22nd Sep 2009Sun 14-Aug-11 03:02 PM
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#7. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 6


Mesa, US
          

Brian:

Thanks for the response. I was totally confused on this point.

----
Gary

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luckyphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 27th Dec 2010Sun 14-Aug-11 04:35 PM
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#8. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 6


Port Charlotte, US
          

Brian, I stand corrected! Thanks
Time to give the whole auto focus section a re-read.

Larry

"Red is gray and yellow white, but we decide which is right
....and which is an illusion"

Moody Blues - Nights in White Satin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Len Shepherd Gold Member Nikonian since 09th Mar 2003Mon 15-Aug-11 01:00 PM
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#9. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 6


Yorkshire, GB
          

>I'm afraid there has been some confusion in this thread, probably because the AF system in recent Nikon DSLR's is
>pretty complex, with lots of options!
An extra D7000 issue is some "traditional" AF options are changed from what went before.
Nikon do not seem to give guidance in the D7000 manual as to when single point, 11 or 39 pints are likely to be best.
For the D300s Nikon suggest using dynamic AF 9 points is good for predictable movement (runners or cars on a race track), 21 points for unpredictable movement (football) and 51 points where the subject is moving quickly and cannot easily be framed.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Mon 15-Aug-11 01:19 PM
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#10. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 9


Paignton, GB
          

>Nikon do not seem to give guidance in the D7000 manual as to
>when single point, 11 or 39 points are likely to be best.

On the contrary - Nikon does give virtually the same AF-Area Mode guidance for the D7000 as for the D300s - it's on page 94 in the D7000 manual.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Wed 19-Oct-11 08:40 PM
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#11. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 6


New Tampa, US
          

>Finally... in Dynamic-area AF, the camera will use the
>specified number of focus points (9, 21 or all 39) surrounding
>whichever single focus point the user has selected.


Brian,

I'm confused on your quote above. Can you explain it please.

Thank you in advance,
Vlad

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 19-Oct-11 09:29 PM
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#12. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 11


Paignton, GB
          

To be honest, I'm not sure I can improve on the explanation of Dynamic-area AF options that is on page 94 of the D7000 manual. What did you want to know, exactly...?

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Holmes375 Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Sep 2006Wed 19-Oct-11 09:54 PM
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#13. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

>>Finally... in Dynamic-area AF, the camera will use the
>>specified number of focus points (9, 21 or all 39)
>surrounding
>>whichever single focus point the user has selected.
>
>Brian,
>
>I'm confused on your quote above. Can you explain it please.
>
>Thank you in advance,
>Vlad

In Dynamic mode, you choose the sensor to be used for initial focus acquisition. If the subject escapes that sensor while you're tracking it, the adjacent sensors will pick up the subject as it comes into their respective areas.

The greater the number of support sensors used in Dynamic mode the greater the drain on the camera's processing resources. Nine point Dynamic is considered the fastest mode because of this. It also utilises the full array of cross-type sensors which exhibit the highest acquisition performance. This helps with fast erratic subjects against busy backgrounds that may fool the other less sensitive sensors.

For subjects against less cluttered backgrounds, 21 point works very well.

Its really an impressive system with most lenses but truly shines with AF-S technology and fast (large maximum aperture) glass.

-Holmes
http://holmes.zenfolio.com/

  

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Thu 20-Oct-11 01:29 AM
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#14. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 13


New Tampa, US
          

Gaylon, thank you very much.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Thu 20-Oct-11 08:10 AM
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#15. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 13
Thu 20-Oct-11 05:26 PM by briantilley

Paignton, GB
          

>It also utilises the full array of cross-type sensors
>which exhibit the highest acquisition performance.

That's true - but only if you have the central AF point selected. If you've chosen one of the outlying AF points, at least some of the surrounding 9 will not be cross-type.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Holmes375 Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Sep 2006Thu 20-Oct-11 08:27 AM
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#16. "RE: Focus Points 39 vs 11"
In response to Reply # 15


US
          

>>It also utilises the full array of cross-type sensors
>>which exhibit the highest acquisition performance.
>
>That's true - but only if you have one of the three central AF
>points in the middle column selected. If you've chosen one of
>the outlying AF points, at least some of the surrounding 9
>will not be cross-type.

Quite so. Thanks for clarifying. I should not have assumed a central point selection as its not always the most desirable for compositional purposes.

-Holmes
http://holmes.zenfolio.com/

  

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sfbillm Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2004Thu 20-Oct-11 03:23 PM
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#17. "RE: So When to use 39 Points?"
In response to Reply # 13


Santa Fe, US
          

Thanks to all for the great explanations here.

But when would it be advantageous to use 39 points? The advantages of 9 and 21 points have been clearly explained, but it seems that all the cases have been covered between the two, leaving no obvious place for using the 39 points.

Since I've just rec'd my D7000, I'm especially interested in this.
Thanks.

SantaFeBill

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Vlad_IT Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Sep 2011Thu 20-Oct-11 05:16 PM
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#18. "RE: So When to use 39 Points?"
In response to Reply # 17
Thu 20-Oct-11 07:46 PM by Vlad_IT

New Tampa, US
          

>Thanks to all for the great explanations here.
>
>But when would it be advantageous to use 39 points? The
>advantages of 9 and 21 points have been clearly explained, but
>it seems that all the cases have been covered between the two,
>leaving no obvious place for using the 39 points.
>
>Since I've just rec'd my D7000, I'm especially interested in
>this.
>Thanks.
>



Though my post is a bit off the original topic – 39 vs 11 (as those only applies to ability for a photographer to choose starting focusing point out of available 39 or out of reduces available 11 sectors. But camera will use surrounding 9/21/39 sectors for dynamic autofocus tracking of moving subject). I’m here will describe the other AF modes that were brought up.


For the past 24 hours I read on the subject, probably, over three dozens of posts and professional reviews. The bottom line is the focusing speed with any given lens is limited by focusing motor and speed of camera's AF system. Motor speed of the lens is a constant for any given lens. In order to speed up focusing process the camera should do at least two things right:

1. Predict what is the next focus distance will be and …

2. Send a command to the lens to start moving focus point as quickly as possible.

#1 is very easy to understand from an example when everyone is trying to focus in very dim light and camera cannot acquire/predict a focus point and lens start focusing from closest focal point to the infinity (and beyond) and back to the closest point, etc.

#2 It’s just a common sense that total focusing time can be reduced by limiting amount of data the AF System has to process. So naturally 9-points area is faster to “serve” and less data to process. 9-points is faster than 21-points and both are faster than 39 points area selection.


For my type of usage I would use the following AF modes such situations:

1. Good light, everyday casual shooting: AF-A/AF-C and AF area mode set to Auto-Area Autofocus (which is 39).

2. Low light condition, hand-held: AF-S and AF area mode to Single-Point AF

3. Low light condition, with tripod: AF-S, Live View and manual focus or Full-time Servo AF mode (AF-F) that part of Live View mode.

4. Now is more interesting situations. Given the D7000 has only 9 center cross-type sensors that work faster and more accurate than other 30 the suggestions are. The fastest possible focus can be achieved by using only 9 sectors:

a. For predictably (fast or slow) moving subjects against BUSY background – use 9 CENTER points and pan the camera, trying to keep the subject in 9 center sectors as the object moves.

b. For predictably (fast or slow) moving subjects against NON-BUSY background – use ANY 9 points and pan the camera, trying to keep the subject in 9 selected sectors as the object moves.

c. Use 21-points selection when you cannot predict object movement, so let the AF system to react faster than you can. You still most of the time will have to recompose as object moves. Wider 21-points area will give you better keeper’s rating, as you more likely will be able to keep the unpredictably moving object within wider area of 21 sensors (as to 9-point one) . Most people suggest using this selection for BIF tracking.

d. Now the 39 points AF – use this mode when you have no ability to pan the camera or for tracking larger moving objects/animals or just for slow moving objects to let the camera’s AF system to do all the work for you.

e. And last but not least – the 39-point 3D tracking mode – a bit slower that Dynamic 39-points AF mode but works great to track object against the differently colored background. Nikon shines here as Canon does not have anything similar to Nikon’s 3D Tracking.

Please feel free to correct or to add anything.

Best regards,
Vlad

  

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sfbillm Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2004Thu 20-Oct-11 07:33 PM
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#19. "RE: So When to use 39 Points?"
In response to Reply # 18


Santa Fe, US
          

Thanks, Vlad.

Looks as if I've a lot of experimenting to do.

But your post gives me some very helpful starting points.

SantaFeBill

"My photos were more interesting before I learned the rules."

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Clint S Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jan 2011Sun 30-Oct-11 06:55 PM
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#20. "RE: So When to use 39 Points?"
In response to Reply # 19


Chula Vista, US
          

Lot's of experimenting! Right after getting the D7000 I read all of the focusing options which seemed confusing and I was soon headed to an air show with jets. My first try was AFC 39 point 3D and the center point for initial focus. With six jets coming over the horizon towards me I locked focus on the lead jet, then the camera took over and there were red squares being highlighted everywhere as the jets moved closer.

As the day moved on I went through each of the options and it did not take me long to move down to 9 dynamic spots to keep focus on one jet. No matter the number of focus points selected, the D7000 locked on with a focus point throughout the entire day with jets flying as fast as 750 MPH - so I don't know if one (39, 21, 9) is quicker than the other.

But getting the results I expected is another matter. After several thousand shots I still have not figured out what is best.

I am now more likely to pick AFS and single point whether shooting flying aircraft or taking portraits. When in any other mode, all too often the camera chooses to move to a focus point that was not intended.

Last weekend I shot a lot of family portraits and was amazed at the number of times the camera selected something other than what I had anticipated. I was using AFC because I was shooting a lot of kids. It did not take me long to moved to AFS single point. And then during the day I somehow knocked the M/A-A focus switch to M on the lens and ended up manually focusing the rest of the day. While in AFC mode I got about 85% properly focused shots, in manual I had 99% properly focused.

Visit my Nikonians gallery - my Spare Time gallery

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Tue 01-Nov-11 06:40 PM
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#21. "RE: So When to use 39 Points?"
In response to Reply # 18
Tue 01-Nov-11 06:41 PM by JohnE Nikon

New HArtford, US
          

I have also used 3D tracking mode to try and track an individual player in soccer. It tries to stay on player it first locks on even though there are other similar players moving all around. It's not perfect but worth experimenting with. This gives me a little more flexibility with composition without having to manually move a dynamic point around with D pad.

In general I use 9 point dynamic for the most consistant sharp images in sports or wildlife and pan camera. I get the sharpest most consistent results as long as I am able to keep subject within those 9 points. With erratic moving subjects (mainly small birds) I may need more then 9 as I am not able to keep the 9 points on the subject.

JohnE Nikon
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"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

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