The D7000 has created a stir up and down the brand and model spectrum. I had high hopes for the camera due the trend in programming and low noise progress graph if superimposed on the feature set resulted in my speculating that the camera would be better in basic photographic criteria than any DX camera on the planet. The ones most offended by such a conclusion were D300(s) owners who insisted that no way would a cheaper consumer camera be in the same league in anything.

I ran across this thread on another forum posted by a well known pro nature photographer who regularly uses the D300s, D3s and D700

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=36708553

Steve's conclusion, which he labeled as being "shocked" by the results, is that the 60d, 7d, D300s are not the cameras to compare with the D7000, but the D700, since the new camera is significantly better in fundamental image capture than the DX competitors.
If his tests hold water, a new D400 or whatever it will be called will give FX a real run until the D4 comes out to renew the distance between the two formats.
Your thoughts?
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Thanks for posting. It seems that Nikon is pressing forward and giving us improved "everything" at this price point, which many of us will appreciate. Now if only my local camera shop could get them in stock .......

Mike

www.beresford-photos.com

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Thanks for the link Stan. I have been thinking of getting a D7000 but was going to wait till DxO and Dpreview came out with a more thorough testing and reporting before making a hard decision. Having a D80, I was happily shooting along enjoying what it was doing for me. I contemplated moving up to a D90 for a while but other than improved ISO (which I did not need at the time) there really was not that much difference between the two for me to justify it. But I now find myself in a situation where I would want the higher ISO performance and the D7000 seems to be a significant step up from the D80 to further justify making the move. This posting has now made the decision a bit easier and has pushed me closer to making a decision of moving up. I still might wait for the more thorough reports being that I would want a body only, and it may be a bit till Nikon ships them to my local brick and mortar store.

As to the D300/D300s versus the D7000, well the gap has narrowed significantly. There are still a few features a Pro may wish that are not in the D7000. Two of the top of my head would be the separation of the shutter release priority from the focus mode and more user banks. As to image quality, well it may matter to some, but not so much for others. Not having used a D300 I guess I am not qualified to say really.

Pete

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Pete, sold my D80 for the D7000

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

There are still a few features a Pro
>may wish that are not in the D7000. Two of the top of my head
>would be the separation of the shutter release priority from
>the focus mode and more user banks. As to image quality, well
>it may matter to some, but not so much for others. Not having
>used a D300 I guess I am not qualified to say really.
>
>Pete
>

You can decouple the shutter from the focus mode on the D7000 as you could on the D90. You simply assign the AE/AF Lock button to control focus. Most D90 users I know use this method as it works great.

As for user banks it depends what you mean. The D300/300s has limited shooting and custom setting banks - but the D7000 is the only Nikon with a true settings bank (allows you to save both shooting and custom settings in one bank and it accessible via the control dial).

Jason

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>You can decouple the shutter from the focus mode on the D7000
>as you could on the D90. You simply assign the AE/AF Lock
>button to control focus. Most D90 users I know use this
>method as it works great.
>

No I am not talking about decoupling the shutter button.

I believe with the more Pro bodies you can choose shutter or focus release priority separately from AF-S and AF-C; where as I believe with the D7000/D90 (like my D80) you only can have shutter release priority with AF-C and focus release priority with AF-S and AF-A.

But I have only scanned the manuals and never used a Pro body so I could be wrong, but that is how I understood the function when I read about it.

Pete

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>I believe with the more Pro bodies you can choose shutter or
>focus release priority separately from AF-S and AF-C;


I believe the D7k will do what your thinking. See page 208 of the manual.

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>
>I believe the D7k will do what your thinking. See page 208 of
>the manual.

I would love to but I do not own one and I know of no PDF version online yet that I can view.


My assumption (and it appears an erroneous one) was just from viewing the specs at Dpreview.

If that is the case then the D7000 is more of a direct threat to the D300s then I thought.

Maybe I will take a trip to the local shop to see if they are taking pre-orders for body only setup.

Now to convince the better half why I need a new camera!!!

Pete

Edited to add:

Just discovered that while the D7000 support page does not contain a link for the manual there is a viewable PDF on the download page so was able to read page 208 and it indeed allows that. So the D7000 does seem to now sit more toward the Pro then consumer as the D90/D80 did.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Manuals are here (cameras including D7000 and lenses, flashes also):
http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/13948

Good luck with convincing SWMBO

BTW the following line of reasoning works well with spouses - "capturing priceless family memories better than ever before!"

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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Thanks for the link. I must of discovered it while you were typing this.

I'll try that excuse, but she can be a tough sell!! LOL

Looking through the manual makes me want one even more now. Darn NAS!!

Pete

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

To me, its hardly surprising.

I mean the D7000 has a new sensor, new processing engine and new autofocus chip. I mean, why introduce new technology if it isn't better than previoously technology (speaking generally, of course!!)?

It obvious that the goalposts have shofted with this new technology and will defintiely mean that the cameras following the D7000 will also be significantly better than their corresponding predecessors.

I am quite excited to see what will be coming next!

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One possible reason for changing things w/o quality improvement is that the new technology might just be less expensive. Just because it is new, does not on its own indicate a quality improvement.

Stan,

I think the D400 will use the same sensor and meter as the D7000 along with a similar
AF unit (modified). I don't see image quality, DR or ISO performance changing. Whatever distance there is between a D7000 and a D3(s)/(x) right now is probably not going to change substantially. Right now the D7000 seems to be giving affordable fx (the D700) a real run, and it is not that far off from the 'big boys' in the fx range that most users can't afford or justify anyway. That will continue with the D400.

Jason

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Certainly interesting times.

I was speculating last month that the new camera would set the IQ level of DX and the D300s replacement would be essentially the same but with a few features that current owners have gone on record to value more than IQ: more than 6fps, heavier, a few single purpose buttons, an opened up version of the CAM4800 for which they are willing to pay a $800-1000 premium. The sales in recent years have increasingly to light weight, high performance cameras with a smaller percent gain in heavy large cameras. That shift in preferences by consumers in everything from phones to cars will probably continue to make the heavy bodies more and more niche items. With the bridge cameras and compacts creating images in resolutions that were not possible in pro cameras just a few years ago customers are starting to realize that large and expensive is not required for a high level of performance. The little Sony NEX looks like a toy but its noise, DR, speed and color would shame most pro cameras of 4 years ago in output.
The D90 was really the first Nikon low cost consumer digital camera that was the results equivalent to more costly pro level cameras(D300) in a trend that continues with the D7000 except in reverse order. The lower priced camera set the bar first and the pro body version will be an operation legacy/habit oriented, rather than results oriented product differentiation. In the past new level of technology were unveiled in limited production cameras and trickled down. That timing cycle now would hurt Nikon too much because their income is from the mass items. The D7000 will sell millions so it was more important than in the past with less competition, to release the innovations first in their core product classes. The D400 will be an enhanced D7000, not something that blows it away, photos from either will be indistinguishable. Right now, until that new model comes out, the heavy body DX class will have stagnant sales for a while. Those who absolutely need a button in the old position, have their button now and are not going to upgrade to anything, they surely will not "downgrade" to a lowly D7000 even if it means better DR, noise, color, WB, metering and other trivial matters. The competition right now is D7000 and 7D, the D300s is not in the game right now as an upgrade or brand switcher.
Some features of the new D400 to expect
Same internals as the D7000
An opened up Multi-CAM4800 with more points and more cross points.
Faster 14bit conversion
Larger buffer
2 SD slots The move to SD was started with the 1/2 and 1/2 in the D300s and the new high speed, high capacity standards means the future is bright for the SD, and not for the CF which is losing market share, meaning development slowdown.
Mic and Line inputs for audio chain
Advanced alignment references for vertical and horizon
10fps
Onboard flash able to control 3 channels in CLS
250,000 click shutter
over 1mpx rear display
Less emphasis on video(soon real video cameras will be released with DSLR mounts, APS-C or FX sensors which will make all the current hype about video DSLR disappear overnight)
Slight ergonomic improvements
$900 higher cost.

Overall, no revolutionary changes, just enhanced D7000
Just pure speculation based on trends and market realities.
Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

The D300 sensor and the D3/D700 sensor are both about 3 years old, which is an enormous amount of time in the digital age. The fact that today's latest DX sensor is closer to the FX sensor than the DX sensor from 2007 should not surprise anybody. Next year we will get the D4, D800 and D400 to push the envelope even further. Isn't it fun?

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian

http://www.tkphoto.me/

Tom,
I think your comment speaks to the fact that the current crop of cameras, especially the D90, were real quantam levels in photography. On another thread, I mentioned that my 90 was the first piece of electronic gadgetry that I haven't longed to update after a year of ownership! My latest iMac is also falling into that category also.

I'm not so sure that the D400/8000 will be an equal jump, but who knows? For most users in the prosumer market, I think the 12-15 mp sensor is more than adequate. Improvements in ISO and AF abilities will set the pace, but honestly, they're so darn good right now, at a darn good price, I think it will take more than most would be willing to pay (and nikon marketing willing to set prices at) to set a new standard.

Just idle speculation based on my narrow experience band...
And wouldn't you just love to be a fly on the wall at an R&D facility at Nikon, Apple, or Intel, and see what's on the chalkboards?

Dave F
Franklin, Pa

"Always do right. You'll gratify some, and astound the rest." Mark Twain

Stan
Thanks for the link, this guy Steve, i see he even packed up his D700 and sold it on ebay in favor of the D7000

If I read another post from Steve in the dp D700 forum correctly, he is downsizing from the D700 to the D7000 due to weight and arthritis problems as well as image quality.

Jerry

>I mentioned that my 90 was the first piece of electronic gadgetry that I haven't longed to update after a year of ownership!

Same here, I'm still happy with my D700 after two years, and I even tried out the D3s briefly. But I still think that we are in the stone age of digital photography and in 10-15 years we'll be laughing at cameras of the year 2010. Here are just a few improvements I envision:

- Video and still merge: Pressing the shutter release just records what frame you thought you wanted at the time of shooting. The camera will record a few seconds before and after, and you can select a different frame in post processing. No more notion of 5fps or 9fps. The camera will only shoot video, 60 frames per second, with same quality as stills.

- The mechanical aperture blades will be replaced with electronic ones, similar to LCD, which can shade the light path in microseconds. The camera will cycle though all apertures during the shot and record one frame for each, without us even noticing. Later in post, one can select the desired DOF.

- The image sensor will be 3D, having multiple layers (like the Foveon, but much more). So there is not just one sensor plane. The camera will record all planes separately, and one can later adjust the focus in post, within limits (i.e. if you missed the focus slightly).

I'll stop here. These are just things one can easily think of now. The actual camera of the future will have capabilities way beyond of what we can imagine now.

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian

http://www.tkphoto.me/

And then in 10 years we will be able send robots out to take pictures for us who will stay at home and just choose the best ones.

Wait, what fun is that?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>And then in 10 years we will be able send robots out to take
>pictures for us who will stay at home and just choose the best
>ones.
>
>Wait, what fun is that?

And for a few dollars more, we will be able to get robots to assign other robots to go out and take the pictures, and then other robots will pick the best pictures, thus eliminating the need for human intervention.



Hillbilly Harry - in the Missouri Ozarks.

D40X
AF-S 18-55 VR
AF-S 55-300 VR
AF-S 50mm 1.4G
AF-S 35mm 1.8
SB400
Nikon closeup attachments 0, 1, 3T, 4T

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- Video and still merge: Pressing the shutter release just records what frame you thought you wanted at the time of shooting. The camera will record a few seconds before and after, and you can select a different frame in post processing. No more notion of 5fps or 9fps. The camera will only shoot video, 60 frames per second, with same quality as stills.

The RED camera has been out for a few years now and already does this.

>The RED camera has been out for a few years now and already
>does this.

Cool, so all we need in this area is to shave off 90% of the size, weight and price. Which is probably a reasonable expectation for 10 years, given how technology advances.

Tom
Bay Area Nikonian

http://www.tkphoto.me/

Stan

Thanks for the valuable thread. I have sold my D90 in preparation for buying either a D300s or D7000. I am waiting, as you and what seems like the whole Nikon user world, for more definitive test results. I too have a D700 and the thought of a D7000 producing similar results produces a definite WOW. Whilst I'm without a small sensor camera I'm using my D700 with x1.4 & x1.7 TC's for wildlife and this is where your thread has woken me up this morning. I have used the D700 for everything else, but only occasionally for wildlife and birding. I left that for the D90. The thought of a camera with a near IQ to the D700 is terrific.

I won't make any decisions for a while and anyway like you the UK still awaits its sale in the shops. However, the future is looking decidedly rosy now. I shall follow your future threads on the subject with interest.

Richard

Visit my Nikonians gallery

Yesterday will out on a long walk, I visited the largest chain of camera specialty stores in Russia, they have 11 in this city alone. The salesman responded to the availability question by "Nikon, no, we are getting any" Their stock of D90s for the first time went on sale for only $1500 for the kit and still have a couple left. They had D300s' and a few D700's in the display case which surprised me. Usually those models are not on display, they come from a central warehouse on the outskirts of the city when one is ordered. Did not see any D3s or D3x (on sale for over $10,000) but they advertise that they have them in stock. I know all the stores sell more Canon because they are much cheaper here. A D90 and 7d until recently were the same price, about $2000.
I have to dig into it more, that salesman did not seem anxious to talk about it. Maybe Nikon's new prices in Europe and Russia have just closed off the market. I called a friend in Finland when I got home to ask what the rumored price of the D7000 would be there. It might be worth a train trip or overnight ferry. He said he got a quote from a discount store for 1299 Euros which is about $1825 for body only. I know Nikon projected a Euro price of the same as the US Dollar price 1199Euros. Why is Nikon so expensive in Europe when Sony, Canon and Pentax are not? My last SB900 flash cost $685! ....too bad there is no alternative. Maybe Nikon just figures the economies in this part of the world are doing better so can gouge. A Sony A850 FF is less than a D90 kit here. Someone in their marketing department is not paying attention to what markets are exploding and which are not. It would be a shame to write off some of the fastest growing markets without trying to compete.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Stan,

>Why is Nikon so expensive in Europe...<

Quote should be:

>Why is |insert name here| so expensive in Europe...<

A few years ago I was watching a T.V. program investigating the large disparity between the U.K. and the rest of Europe in the price of cars. The presenter went on to explain that within the automotive industry the U.K. was referred to as "treasure island".

Says it all really.

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

Hi Robbie
I was wondering about the big differences in general across the region so I looked at EuroStat
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/Price_levels_of_consumer_goods_and_services

It seems that if one wants to retire in Europe or UK, the place to avoid if you are on an external fixed income would be Norway or Denmark and countries like Bulgaria would be very attractive. For cars the UK is 0.91 of the average of all countries, compared to Denmark at 1.74 times the average. In consumer electronics, like cameras, the UK is lower than any other country in the region.

The large spread of prices between countries surprised me, Norway and Denmark is consistently the highest and the Balkans area are the lowest for the same items, for most categories except consumer electronics there is a 3:1 price difference.

Stan
St Petersburg Russia

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Stan,

>It seems that if one wants to retire in Europe or UK, the place to avoid if you are on an external fixed income would be Norway or Denmark and countries like Bulgaria would be very attractive. For cars the UK is 0.91 of the average of all countries, compared to Denmark at 1.74 times the average. In consumer electronics, like cameras, the UK is lower than any other country in the region.<

I don't doubt the above values, but when taken in isolation they do not tell the whole story. 0.91 vs. 1.74 sounds appalling...until you factor in that Danish infrastructure caters specifically for cyclists to a greater extent than does the U.K. Danes almost certainly cycle more than Brits generally. Public transport may be more extensive across the country. Therefore, the significant increase in the cost of a car purchased in Denmark over and above the same car purchased in the U.K. may not be as 'significant' as initially assumed. Additionally, Denmark is considered generally to be one of the best places to live in the world for quality of life, scoring highly or even coming in top in polls. The U.K. does not.

Be careful of cherry picking data is all I'm saying.

Sorry for marginally derailing the thread. No further comment from me.

Cheers,

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

Hi Stan. I see the D7000 body only for $1279.00 Canadian dollars. That is list price I think (discounts will start once initial sales temper). It is not in stock here yet, only available for pre-order. I'd buy one and ship it to you but don't know about importation hassles. Cheers, Peter

http://www.henrys.ca/62103-NIKON-D7000-DIGITAL-SLR-BODY.aspx

Steve Bingham has updated his assessment. He apparently made an error when setting up the D700. After re-evaluating he is indicating D7000 1/2-stop worse than D700 at ISO 3200.

Still not bad, just not quite as good as he initial reported

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&thread=36726273

I remain very anxious to get my hands on my body-only pre-order.

I still am looking at all the samples people post. These ones worried me a little as I can see some noise when you look at her larger size images but I don't know what ISO she shot:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&message=36735478

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
My Nikonians gallery
My Nikonians Blog

>I still am looking at all the samples people post. These ones
>worried me a little as I can see some noise when you look at
>her larger size images but I don't know what ISO she shot:
>http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1034&message=36735478
>

Which images do you find problematic Steve? The EXIF data is available for the test images from the link included in the link you provided (boy that was sort of a convoluted way of saying that,,, LOL).

Yeah at ISO 3200 there was some noise evident in 100% view, and there seemed to be some noise evident in ISO 1000 images that were a bit underexposed. But I have always read that one should not judge noise at 100% view on a monitor. But even at that, it is a lot better then what I have now can do.

Pete

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Hi Pete,

Without getting too technical, what concerned me about some of the photos in the thread I linked too was more of a subjective sense that shot sloppily and/or post processed indifferently the D7000 can show some noise. But no biggee that was just one data point among dozens available on the web now.

My cam arrives this week and I am still looking forward to it. My sense not based on any experience yet is the D7000 will still require some shot discipline and care in PP just like I do now with my D300. I expect it to be better in certain areas than the D300, areas important to me so that is why I ordered it.

For context even when I goof up badly my D700 has a little more special sauce to come to the rescue and it looks pretty promising that the D7000 sits midway between the D300 and D700 in that respect. A significant achievement that I impatiently await

Best regards, SteveK

'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange
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