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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS Post-Processing & Workflow (Public) Adobe Post-Processing (Public) topic #9987
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Subject: "Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark" Previous topic | Next topic
pqtrths Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014   Dublin, CA, US  Nikonian since 02nd May 2007 Sat 19-Jan-13 04:57 PM
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"Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"



Morning:

About a month ago I posted a question about the cloning tool not being able to clone dark tones over light tones, specifically a light to medium brown background over a white truck. (Look at the upper left corner of the attached photo.) Antero replied with advice which I used with better results but it only partially covered the object. The clone tool works very well most of the time, except for dark over light.

This is a throw-away photo that I'm keeping just to figure out this one question. I'm open to suggestions including here.

Mp


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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas
19th Jan 2013
1
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
19th Jan 2013
2
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... pqtrths Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
20th Jan 2013
4
     Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
20th Jan 2013
5
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... pqtrths Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
20th Jan 2013
3
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... Antero52 Silver Member Awarded for his expertise in post-processing, being  consistently helpful and professional.
21st Jan 2013
6
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
22nd Jan 2013
8
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... mfphoto1
21st Jan 2013
7
Reply message RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dar... pqtrths Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
26th Jan 2013
9

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas   Richmond, US  Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004 Sat 19-Jan-13 06:03 PM
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#1. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 0



Sorry, I'm missing context. Which software are you trying to use? Lightroom? CS4/5/6? Elements? And what are you trying to clone out?

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014   Toronto, CA  Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010 Sat 19-Jan-13 09:19 PM
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#2. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 1



OK -- not sure what you are doing -- I saved your posted jpeg and did a clone to get rid of the truck in LR4 and in CS6.

The LR4 clone job is not great, you don't get much ability to touch up unless you make copies and re-edit the copy -- so I just did a single clone and you can see where I cloned from and its not great -- although someone who did not know might miss it.

I then dumped a copy of the original into CS6 -- that was simpler. I used all default settings and started with a brush size almost big enough to cover the truck (but not as big as I had to be using just LR). I almost always use a soft brush in cloning, and did here. I then cloned from the road to the right of the other auto.

I then touched it up a bit by cloning from just above and to the right of the truck to make the background look a bit better.





----
Dennis Smith.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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pqtrths Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014   Dublin, CA, US  Nikonian since 02nd May 2007 Sun 20-Jan-13 08:31 AM
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#4. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 2



Dennis:

Thank you.

Both of your edits look great. I'm use PSE-8, For this edit, I used a hard brush, larger than the pickup, 100% opacity, set to darken, but cloning from the area just above the white truck.

I know that I'm missing a key step here somewhere. I'm keeping at this until I get it right.

Mp

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014   Toronto, CA  Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010 Sun 20-Jan-13 02:01 PM
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#5. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 4
Sun 20-Jan-13 02:02 PM by quenton8


I think you are trying to hard

I used PSE up to 9 -- the cloning in CS6 is not much different.

I would try again as follows ...

  • select a soft brush, hard will almost always leave noticable marks -- there ARE uses for them, but I use soft about 99% of the time
  • select 100% and "Normal", not darken -- in this case at least you are really copying from one part of the image to another
  • make sure you have the "Aligned" checkbox checked
  • Make the brush a bit smaller than the truck, maybe twice the size of the wheel
  • put the brush over the top edge of the road mid-way between the SUV and the balloon, so you get part road and part side-of-the-road and do your Alt+Click
  • put the brush over the truck so that the edge of the road lines up with the edge of the road just to the right of the truck
  • paint out the truck, you can move the brush up and down, left and right, to get all of it
  • look at the result and if you see a bit that looks somewhat out of place, pick something else to copy from and copy it on top of that bit


I found with cloning that lots of practice helps. If you get something you think is OK but not great, post it and we can look at it with you.

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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pqtrths Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014   Dublin, CA, US  Nikonian since 02nd May 2007 Sun 20-Jan-13 08:22 AM
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#3. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 1



>Sorry, I'm missing context. Which software are you trying to use? Lightroom? CS4/5/6? Elements? And what are you trying to clone out? <

Brian:

Sorry about that. I'm using PSE-8 and intended to clone out both trucks on the road in the upper left corner of the photo.

Mp

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Antero52 Silver Member Awarded for his expertise in post-processing, being  consistently helpful and professional.   Vantaa, FI  Nikonian since 07th Jul 2009 Mon 21-Jan-13 07:32 AM
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#6. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 0



Marion, I believe the earlier discussion related to the question why cloning doesn't work. One of the reasons was that the user tried to clone light over dark and the cloning brush was in Darken mode (or vice versa). If you use the cloning brush in Normal mode, it copies from source to target regardless of which is darker or lighter.

Dennis advices using a soft-edged cloning brush. I almost always get better results by cloning on a separate layer with 100% flow and a hard edge. That way I get pixels that are as sharp as the originals and not a mixture of the source and target. In a separate step I often add a layer mask, usually by starting with a selection of the cloned area. I can then paint black or white on the layer mask of the clone layer, thus hiding or revealing the clone. With the layer mask and black, white or gray paint I can move the border between cloned and original areas to natural lines that exist in the photo. That way the cloning borders are as unobtrusive as possible.

Regards, Antero

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014   Toronto, CA  Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010 Tue 22-Jan-13 01:17 AM
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#8. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 6



Certainly use a separate layer for the clone -- makes it easier to later adjust things.

Soft vs Hard brush -- depends ...

I use soft for my first pass, then if needed I zoom WAY in and go hard to fine-tune -- but I find that the find-tuning is not always needed, and I find soft does a nice job of merging data from some other spot on the photo.

What you REALLY need to do, is play around lots (and lots and lots ...) and see what works best for you!

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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mfphoto1   Cincinnati, US  Registered since 29th Oct 2005 Mon 21-Jan-13 01:09 PM
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#7. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 0



You may want to consider upgrading to the latest version of elements. There have been a lot of improvements since 8. One of the biggest being content aware fill. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with 8 just that life is easier with 11.

Here is a video done with elements 9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mUbqbufG1Y

"Step into my world and see as I see"

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pqtrths Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014   Dublin, CA, US  Nikonian since 02nd May 2007 Sat 26-Jan-13 08:11 PM
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#9. "RE: Follow-up to previous post: cloning light over dark"
In response to Reply # 7



Dennis and Everyone:

I followed Dennis's instructions on a different photo and they worked great.

Before/after versions are attached.

Before cloning, I edited the photo in the adobe converter changing the white balance to "daylight", used "auto" command for everything else, and made a slight crop.

Enlarge the photo enough and you'll still see outlines of the objects removed and that the brick doesn't align that well; but for a first try, I'm pretty happy about it.

Mp



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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS Post-Processing & Workflow (Public) Adobe Post-Processing (Public) topic #9987 Previous topic | Next topic