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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Adobe postprocessing software (Public) topic #9740
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newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 25th Apr 2006Fri 28-Dec-12 10:11 PM
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"New to LR: questions about importing"


Neuville, near Quebec City, CA
          

Hi,

I'm slowly moving from CNX2-PM5 to LR4.

I presently have 200,000 photos on 2 external HDD (NEFs + jpg for the post-processed ones). I have a complete copy on 2 other HD. I now want to create a catalog with LR4. I plan on making a 3rd copy of everything on a new 3Tb HDD.

My questions are:

1- Do I have to copy all my photos to the new 3Tb HDD before importing into LR4 or can I proceed folder by folder (i.e. can I clean one folder from the not so good photos and then, copy the cleaned folder with the remaining good photos on the new 3Tb HDD for their import into LR4, and then repeat the same operation for another folder later on)?

2- What will happen with the .NEF and .JPG versions of the same photo (they have the same name)?

3- What will happen when I will have to split my photos between 2 HDD because I'll have too many for one HDD?

4- Will I need to make a full copy of the new 3Tb HDD on a similar HDD or will it make sense to sync the LR4 imported photos with their source HDD (to make sure I have 2 copies of the files)?

5- Are the NEF files modified by the LR4 catalogue? Are there sidecar files to keep track of when making backup copies of my photos? Is there a LR4-specific file for the catalog?

Thanks a lot!

N.B. I have the books from Scott Kelby and from Martin Evening.

Yvan
Quebec Nikonian
http://yvanbedardphotonature.com

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
28th Dec 2012
1
Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
28th Dec 2012
2
Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
29th Dec 2012
5
     Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
mjhach Silver Member
10th Jan 2013
9
          Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
10th Jan 2013
10
               Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
mjhach Silver Member
10th Jan 2013
11
Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
29th Dec 2012
3
     Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
29th Dec 2012
4
          Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
29th Dec 2012
6
               Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
29th Dec 2012
7
                    Reply message RE: New to LR: questions about importing
newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
29th Dec 2012
8

walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 28-Dec-12 10:39 PM
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#1. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          


>I presently have 200,000 photos on 2 external HDD (NEFs + jpg
>for the post-processed ones). I have a complete copy on 2
>other HD. I now want to create a catalog with LR4. I plan on
>making a 3rd copy of everything on a new 3Tb HDD.
>
>My questions are:
>
>1- Do I have to copy all my photos to the new 3Tb HDD before
>importing into LR4 or can I proceed folder by folder (i.e. can
>I clean one folder from the not so good photos and then, copy
>the cleaned folder with the remaining good photos on the new
>3Tb HDD for their import into LR4, and then repeat the same
>operation for another folder later on)?
>

I would get the structures the way you want them via operating system moves, deletes, and modifies, and then import things in bulk form. When I first started using Lightroom, I had all my images on one drive and with one top-level directory. I simply pointed Lightroom at that top-level directory, hit import, and let it do its thing.

>2- What will happen with the .NEF and .JPG versions of the
>same photo (they have the same name)?
>

There's no issue having NEFs and JPEGs with the same name. Lightroom will treat them as separate files.

>3- What will happen when I will have to split my photos
>between 2 HDD because I'll have too many for one HDD?

One Lightroom catalog can span many drives, including ones that aren't even connected all the time. This is no problem.

>
>4- Will I need to make a full copy of the new 3Tb HDD on a
>similar HDD or will it make sense to sync the LR4 imported
>photos with their source HDD (to make sure I have 2 copies of
>the files)?
>

I'm not sure I understand where you're headed here. Whatever you do should be based on how you want to keep backups of your images (which shouldn't need to change with Lightroom).

>5- Are the NEF files modified by the LR4 catalogue? Are there
>sidecar files to keep track of when making backup copies of my
>photos? Is there a LR4-specific file for the catalog?

No, NEFs aren't normally modified by LR4. The only exception, which you can override, is if you want to fix an incorrect capture time. Your existing NEF edits made in Capture NX2 will remain accessible to NX2 if you want to update them via that program.

You don't need to have sidecar files if you don't want them, but I think it's smart if you're using CS6. It enables you to have interoperability between LR4 and ACR, and that can be a good thing if you ever want to edit something via ACR. I have my LR configuration set to automatically write out to xmp sidecars and it works well. You don't have to do anything at all with them in terms of backups. Your backup software should back them up, just like it backs up your NEFs. Because they're tiny, they take almost no time or space to backup. You won't see them in LR or Bridge, and if you confine your file moves and deletes to Lightroom, you'll never need to worry about them.

Yes, there are specific files associated with the Lightroom catalog. They're pretty easy to figure out, and include the catalog file itself and one that contains the previews. Both are automatically backed up by LR4 at whatever period you specify. I have them backed up to an external drive and they're also backed up automatically by my backup software (Time Machine and Super Duper)

>
>Thanks a lot!
>
>N.B. I have the books from Scott Kelby and from Martin
>Evening.
>
>

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 28-Dec-12 10:47 PM
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#2. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 1


Colorado Springs, US
          

One other thing: if you have a laptop, consider setting up a simple Lightroom configuration there first to get the feel of things and experiment. I'd copy three or four representative folders to it, have them all under one master folder, and then import them. Play with the configuration settings, do some edits, apply metadata and keywords, move things around and rename them, etc. Doing so in a penalty free environment will make many aspects of your larger migration very clear.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 25th Apr 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 07:24 PM
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#5. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 2


Neuville, near Quebec City, CA
          

This is an excellent advice and way to learn. I do have a very powerful laptop in addition to my main computer. I have installed LR4 and CS6 on both (and I already had CNX2 and PM5 on both) and will do what you suggest!

Thanks a lot!

Yvan
Quebec Nikonian
http://yvanbedardphotonature.com

  

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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Thu 10-Jan-13 03:11 PM
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#9. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 5


Simcoe, CA
          

I have LR4 on my desktop and want to install onto laptop (I have lots of room and good specs for this software). When I go to Adobe to download it, it doesn't do anything. This would be my second copy, which is acceptable to Adobe's purchase arrangements. Even with my firewall off, it still just sits there at the Download screen. Any suggestions? You know Adobe doesn't like to give out information past the 90 day period without their hand out?!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 10-Jan-13 05:58 PM
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#10. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 9


Colorado Springs, US
          

Try using a different browser than you're currently using.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Thu 10-Jan-13 10:21 PM
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#11. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 10


Simcoe, CA
          

I'm currently using Windows Explorer on both machines. You mean change to, say, Google Chrome?? on the laptop and why would the laptop/browser fumble the download when the Windows browser on the desktop is fine?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 25th Apr 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 04:27 PM
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#3. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 1


Neuville, near Quebec City, CA
          

>
>>I presently have 200,000 photos on 2 external HDD (NEFs +
>jpg
>>for the post-processed ones). I have a complete copy on 2
>>other HD. I now want to create a catalog with LR4. I plan
>on
>>making a 3rd copy of everything on a new 3Tb HDD.
>>
>>My questions are:
>>
>>1- Do I have to copy all my photos to the new 3Tb HDD
>before
>>importing into LR4 or can I proceed folder by folder (i.e.
>can
>>I clean one folder from the not so good photos and then,
>copy
>>the cleaned folder with the remaining good photos on the
>new
>>3Tb HDD for their import into LR4, and then repeat the
>same
>>operation for another folder later on)?
>>
>
>I would get the structures the way you want them via operating
>system moves, deletes, and modifies, and then import things in
>bulk form.

Yes, this is what I'll do to make the copy on the new 3Tb HDD, i.e. the HDD I want to use as my primary HDD from now on. However, instead of importing everything in bulk, I want to import existing folders separately in different days, i.e. import a folder only once I'll have cleaned it from photos I don't want to keep anymore. I assume it won't be a problem for LR4 to import the new folder since it is similar to ingesting a memory card from my camera. Am I right?

I'll then end up with up to 5 levels of folders since I will organize everything under a unique top-level folder.

>
>>2- What will happen with the .NEF and .JPG versions of
>the
>>same photo (they have the same name)?
>>
>
>There's no issue having NEFs and JPEGs with the same name.
>Lightroom will treat them as separate files.

However, I assume I'll loose the different versions of a NEF file (as used in NX2). I have not used this very often, so not a big issue.



>>
>>4- Will I need to make a full copy of the new 3Tb HDD on
>a
>>similar HDD or will it make sense to sync the LR4
>imported
>>photos with their source HDD (to make sure I have 2 copies
>of
>>the files)?
>>
>
>I'm not sure I understand where you're headed here.

I have the choice between the 2 following options once I'll have copied all existing files on the new 3Tb HDD and imported them into Lightroom:

a) make an exact backup copy on a second new 3TB HDD (which I have)
b) use my two source HDD as backups of the new 3Tb HDD (i.e. with the same folder structure but split over 2 HDD) and back up the LR catalog files (+ sidecar files) on these two HDDs.

Solution "a" is the simplest one
Solution "b" may be the most practical one during my transition phase where I still use PM5 to ingest photos and CNX2 untill I become good enough with LR4 (i.e. I'll not import in LR the files on the source HDDs, but I'll backup a copy of the LR catalog files on the source HDDs in a separate folder). BTW, I assume we don't have to import backups in LR but that we rather make a regular backup of LR files and photos(i.e. in case of HDD failure, I assume LR will be able to run a backup of photos even if its catalog was created from a different HDD)


>>5- Are there sidecar files to keep track of when making backup copies of my photos? Is there a LR4-specific file for the catalog?
>

>
>You don't need to have sidecar files if you don't want them,
>but I think it's smart if you're using CS6.

Yes I will (I bought the LR4-CS6 tandem)

>It enables you to
>have interoperability between LR4 and ACR, and that can be a
>good thing if you ever want to edit something via ACR. I have
>my LR configuration set to automatically write out to xmp
>sidecars and it works well. You don't have to do anything at
>all with them in terms of backups. Your backup software
>should back them up, just like it backs up your NEFs. Because
>they're tiny, they take almost no time or space to backup.
>You won't see them in LR or Bridge,

Great to know!

> and if you confine your
>file moves and deletes to Lightroom,

I'm not sure I understand this sentence.

> you'll never need to
>worry about them.
>
>Yes, there are specific files associated with the Lightroom
>catalog. They're pretty easy to figure out, and include the
>catalog file itself and one that contains the previews. Both
>are automatically backed up by LR4 at whatever period you
>specify. I have them backed up to an external drive and
>they're also backed up automatically by my backup software
>(Time Machine and Super Duper)

Good to know !

>
>>
>>Thanks a lot!
>>
>>N.B. I have the books from Scott Kelby and from Martin
>>Evening.
>>
>>


Once again, many thanks Rick !

Yvan
Quebec Nikonian
http://yvanbedardphotonature.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sat 29-Dec-12 04:51 PM
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#4. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 3


Colorado Springs, US
          


>>I would get the structures the way you want them via
>operating
>>system moves, deletes, and modifies, and then import
>things in
>>bulk form.
>
>Yes, this is what I'll do to make the copy on the new 3Tb HDD,
>i.e. the HDD I want to use as my primary HDD from now on.
>However, instead of importing everything in bulk, I want to
>import existing folders separately in different days, i.e.
>import a folder only once I'll have cleaned it from photos I
>don't want to keep anymore. I assume it won't be a problem for
>LR4 to import the new folder since it is similar to ingesting
>a memory card from my camera. Am I right?
>
>I'll then end up with up to 5 levels of folders since I will
>organize everything under a unique top-level folder.
>
>>

Yes, you can do that. It'll just involve more steps. Keep in mind that you can also delete and move stuff within Lightroom, including individual files and folders. You can also add folders. It's up to you.


>>>2- What will happen with the .NEF and .JPG versions
>of
>>the
>>>same photo (they have the same name)?
>>>
>>
>>There's no issue having NEFs and JPEGs with the same name.
>
>>Lightroom will treat them as separate files.
>
>However, I assume I'll loose the different versions of a NEF
>file (as used in NX2). I have not used this very often, so not
>a big issue.
>

The edits you had in your NEFs, including versioning, will remain in there, so they won't be lost if you want to edit them using NX2. Lightroom has multiple ways of handling a similar concept: snapshots (which reflect different states of a file that you can select - it's the feature most like NX2's versioning) and virtual copies, where the alternate version of the file appears to be a completely separate file, but there's only one actual NEF, JPEG, TIFF or PSD. Lightroom just tracks a separate set of instructions for the virtual copy, along with a preview that it generates. This is an extremely handy feature when you want multiple renderings of the same image or if you want to experiment without tampering with the original version.



>I have the choice between the 2 following options once I'll
>have copied all existing files on the new 3Tb HDD and imported
>them into Lightroom:
>
>a) make an exact backup copy on a second new 3TB HDD (which I
>have)
>b) use my two source HDD as backups of the new 3Tb HDD (i.e.
>with the same folder structure but split over 2 HDD) and back
>up the LR catalog files (+ sidecar files) on these two HDDs.
>
>Solution "a" is the simplest one
>Solution "b" may be the most practical one during my
>transition phase where I still use PM5 to ingest photos and
>CNX2 untill I become good enough with LR4 (i.e. I'll not
>import in LR the files on the source HDDs, but I'll backup a
>copy of the LR catalog files on the source HDDs in a separate
>folder). BTW, I assume we don't have to import backups in LR
>but that we rather make a regular backup of LR files and
>photos(i.e. in case of HDD failure, I assume LR will be able
>to run a backup of photos even if its catalog was created from
>a different HDD)
>

I would definitely do option "a". Although it may seem like a bold step, I would drop NX2 and PM5 as fast as you can. That's not because they're bad, but you'll prolong your learning time and continue to build up edits or templates in tools that you'll eventually stop using. The best way to learn LR4 and CS6 is to give yourself no choice but to use them. It's similar to what I did when I moved from film to digital. As long as I had the crutch of using film, I stuck with it because I didn't know how to get results I liked with my D100 (using Capture at the time). It wasn't until I took an extended trip with just the D100 that I actually started learning how to really use it.

You're correct on the importing of backups. If you ever had to recover a lost drive of images, you'd just add the new drive, copy the images to it from your backup, and then point Lightroom to the new drive. If it had the same name, it wouldn't even know the difference and you'd immediately be in business.

BTW, you can export all your keywords out of PM5 and then import them into LR4 (or vice versa). Both programs let you use text files to do this and both support hierarchical keywording. Once you're up and running in Lightroom and Photoshop, you can configure PM5 to be Adobe-compatible in case you ever want to use it. I suspect you'll find that LR4 will probably handle your needs the vast majority of the time.

>
>
>
>> and if you confine your
>>file moves and deletes to Lightroom,
>
>I'm not sure I understand this sentence.
>

Rather than moving, renaming or deleting image files and folders in your operating system, you should use Lightroom to do it. Otherwise, the catalog won't know where they've gone. It's not difficult to resynchronize things, but if you use Lightroom to make those moves, renaming operations or deletes, there's no need for resynchronizing the catalog and files.


Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 25th Apr 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 07:26 PM
2006 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 4


Neuville, near Quebec City, CA
          

Thanks Rick for the advices, it is very clear now!

I didn't use keywords in PM5 but intend to do so with LR4. Any suggestion for an existing list of keywords? I mostly do landscape, travel and bird photography.

Any idea about bilingual French-English keyword lists?

Yvan
Quebec Nikonian
http://yvanbedardphotonature.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Donor Ribbon awarded for his very generous support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sat 29-Dec-12 07:38 PM
14893 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 6


Colorado Springs, US
          

I can send you a copy of my keyword text file as a starting point. I'll trim out the personal stuff that you wouldn't want, but leave some things in as examples. I don't know of French-English keyword lists, but if you can't locate one, you may be able to create your own through the use of synonyms. It's not an area I've explored much unfortunately.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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newbird Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 25th Apr 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 08:46 PM
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#8. "RE: New to LR: questions about importing"
In response to Reply # 7


Neuville, near Quebec City, CA
          

Please do so! It is very kind!

Yvan
Quebec Nikonian
http://yvanbedardphotonature.com

  

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