Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Adobe postprocessing software (Public) topic #9664
View in linear mode

Subject: "LR4 Catalog Behaviour" Previous topic | Next topic
rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Sun 23-Dec-12 03:33 PM
5099 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
Sun 23-Dec-12 03:34 PM by rutherfordphoto

Vancouver, CA
          

AI've been an Aperture user for 6 years. I have finally (almost) decided to switch to Lightroom for a number of reasons. I've been evaluating for a few weeks now, (I'm actually on a trial extension from Adobe) and the only thing that really concerns me is the Catalog.

I use Aperture as a managed library, and I like the process. There's NO headache about where the images reside on the harddrive. It also makes it super easy to back up. I know Lightroom can't function as a managed library, but If I just Import (import from card or copy from location) all the images into the default Lightroom Catalog, and not move them, is that in a sense, the same thing? A referenced library, but a managed one because they're all in the same location? Make sense?

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
walkerr Administrator
23rd Dec 2012
1
Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
rutherfordphoto
23rd Dec 2012
2
     Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
quenton8 Silver Member
23rd Dec 2012
3
     Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
walkerr Administrator
23rd Dec 2012
4
Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
JonK Moderator
23rd Dec 2012
5
Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
quenton8 Silver Member
23rd Dec 2012
7
     Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
rutherfordphoto
24th Dec 2012
8
          Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
bobpilot Silver Member
24th Dec 2012
9
          Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
quenton8 Silver Member
24th Dec 2012
11
Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
bobpilot Silver Member
23rd Dec 2012
6
Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
rutherfordphoto
24th Dec 2012
10
     Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
MrsNikon
24th Dec 2012
12
          Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
rutherfordphoto
24th Dec 2012
13
               Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
MrsNikon
24th Dec 2012
14
               Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
quenton8 Silver Member
25th Dec 2012
16
               Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
William Symonds
25th Dec 2012
17
                    Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
rutherfordphoto
25th Dec 2012
18
                         Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
William Symonds
25th Dec 2012
19
                              Reply message RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour
rutherfordphoto
25th Dec 2012
20

walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sun 23-Dec-12 03:51 PM
14604 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question or not since I'm only slightly familiar with Aperture, but you can have all your image files in one place (one top-level directory) or spread out amongst a variety of drives and folders. Lightroom doesn't care. If you put them in one place (which I do, but not with the catalog), they're very easy to back up - no problem.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Sun 23-Dec-12 04:06 PM
5099 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 1


Vancouver, CA
          

Thanks, that's what I was hoping to hear. Currently all my test images are in a "Lightroom" folder along with the previews and .lrcat files. If keeping this structure is safe, then great.

Can I ask why you don't keep them with the Catalog files. I'm assuming the Catalog is where all the adjustment data is kept, correct?

Just for reference, Aperture gives you the preference between a Managed, or Referenced Library. In a Managed Library, all the images are put into one big file that is only accessible through Aperture. This includes all the adjustment data, previews, and the actual image. It's stored as a Vault, which is super easy to backup.

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Sun 23-Dec-12 05:05 PM
1265 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 2


Toronto, CA
          

The photos can be anywhere or scattered as noted in one of the replies.

I keep my photos on a 1Tb USB-3 drive, and I keep the catalog on my main internal drive (C:\ in windows-speak).

I backup my photos nightly and weekly to 2 other USB-2 drives, and my catlog gets backed up to my USB-3 drive and so takes part in the other backups too.

To be safe I have two other USB-2 drives that rotate to my office so at least one is off-site all the time.

I find this works well.

You can "import" photos that already exist on a hard-drive, without moving them, it just updates the catalog to point to them -- that may be what you need to do. The one thing to watch if you do that, I and I lost some this way, if you set up the LR import to just point to existing files -- then sometime later (months) import from a temporary folder and point to them -- you need to change the setup to "Copy" then!!

----
Dennis Smith.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sun 23-Dec-12 05:43 PM
14604 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 2


Colorado Springs, US
          

There's really no benefit that I can see to having the catalog located with the files. I like having my images easily accessible with a variety of tools, and the referenced file approach makes it easy to expand across drives or catalog off-line drives.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

JonK Moderator Awarded for his high level skills and in-depth knowledge in various areas, such as Wildlife, Landscape and Stage Photography Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2004Sun 23-Dec-12 10:01 PM
4708 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 0


New York, US
          

I too do not keep the catalog with the image files.

My images are stored in one folder with subfolder by subject. The catalog file resides where Lightroom on a Mac defaults it.

I back up the images to external drives. The LR catalog is backed up both on my Mac and also on an external drive.

The only exception is when I process images for friends or work. Those reside in their own folders.

Jon Kandel
A New York City Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Sun 23-Dec-12 11:54 PM
1265 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 5


Toronto, CA
          

I tend to use ONE folder, with subfolders.

The structure is
year -> day
so
2012 -> 2012-12-23
-> 2012-12-24

all of the years then are in one main folder "Photos".

----
Dennis Smith.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Mon 24-Dec-12 12:11 AM
5099 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 7


Vancouver, CA
          

>I tend to use ONE folder, with subfolders.
>
>The structure is
> year -> day
>so
> 2012 -> 2012-12-23
> -> 2012-12-24
>
>all of the years then are in one main folder
>"Photos".
>
>
I see this is the Default, and it's the way I hope to go.

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
bobpilot Silver Member Nikonian since 08th May 2007Mon 24-Dec-12 12:15 AM
3257 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 8


Washington, US
          

If this works for you, then it is they way to go. Just because it is the default, does not mean it is the best way. It is just the way Adobe choose. You can arrange your folders any way you want to and then change them at any time.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Mon 24-Dec-12 12:50 AM
1265 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon 24-Dec-12 12:51 AM by quenton8

Toronto, CA
          

>>I tend to use ONE folder, with subfolders.
>>
>>The structure is
>> year -> day
>>so
>> 2012 -> 2012-12-23
>> -> 2012-12-24
>>
>>all of the years then are in one main folder
>>"Photos".
>>
>>
>I see this is the Default, and it's the way I hope to go.
>
I go that way, not just because its the default, but because I really "don't care".

When I first started into digital photograph (after many years doing film), I looked around for something to organize and do some editing on my photos. I found "Photoshop Elements". I worked with for some time, and created all kinds of nicely named folders (John's Wedding, Mediterranean Cruise, ...).

When I switched to LR3 (because PSE9 was buggy), I saw no reason to keep on with complicated folder names, since I could find photos by multiple keywords, dates, camera and lots of other things. So rather than trying to figure out and use folder names, I just let LR do its job.

I have a number of catalogs (Personal, Wife, Church, Son, Daughter) -- these are not photos OF by photos BY/FOR. Otherwise I find things mostly by keyword -- using custom folder names would just be another keyword, so why bother??

Works for me anyway!

----
Dennis Smith.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

bobpilot Silver Member Nikonian since 08th May 2007Sun 23-Dec-12 11:53 PM
3257 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 23-Dec-12 11:54 PM by bobpilot

Washington, US
          

Lightroom allows you to build your own hierarchy of folders.

What do you mean by the term "Managed Library?" You can build your hierarchy of folders anyway you choose and on any hard drive, internal or external. When you import from your CF card, you designate where the images will be located. Or you can create the folder when you import. I find it easier to build the folder array and then import to the folder that I made.

You can then 'manage' your folders. Once the images are in the LR Catalog,if you don't like the array your created, or just want to split a folder, by date for example, you can move the images to a different folder or create a new folder. This process should be done in the Library Module. If you move images to a new folder using your normal method; windows or finder, then you will have to show LR where the images are located; easy enough to do, but not needed if you move images and create folders in the LR Library module.

LR shows you, in the Library module, each hard drive that has folders with imported images; it does not show the folders that are no in the catalog. You can set it to show the Parent folder if you choose. A click of the arrow and you can LR shows the folders within the selected folder.

You can rename the Catalog to whatever you choose. You can also have more than one Catalog; I tried this and it was too confusing for me; although some photographers have a catalog for each shoot. As you can see from this screen shot, I organize by date and have sub-folders for destinations.

I am not sure why you want to keep all your images in the same location. Did you mean on the same drive? That's fine, but LR will show you the drive each folder is on. My drive became full, so I split year 2012 and have my trip on a another drive.

I don't use the normal Back up feature of LR. I find it easier to have a duplicate of the folder array, with the photo files, on an external drive. When I import images, I 'manually' copy the folder to the external drive. This way, when my hard drive fails, and it has, I can show LR that the images are now on the external drive; same array, so all is as it was before. (Of course, I am using the backup so now I have to make a new backup). Be sure to back up your current LR catalog on an external drive. I keep it separate from the back up files, on it's own little drive. It takes up a lot of memory and I want to have the external dedicated to images. Just my method, to each their own.

The key to understanding LR is the Catalog. The Catalog keeps track of where the imported images are located. Just like the catalog file cabinet at the local book library; the little card shows you where the book is located.

One reason to not have the Catalog with the files is that the Catalog takes up a lot of space. LR will access the Catalog from any location. It just points to the image and keeps track of the adjustments you made to it. If the Catalog is nested with the images, when that drive fails, the Catalog is gone. My suggestion is to keep your Active Catalog on it's own drive and adhere to the backup regime that is orchestrated by LR when it closes. And make sure the Catalog backs up to another drive. I have a small C dedicated to programs and the Active LR Catalog. It's backup is on an external.

I might as well voice my opinion on file naming. Use numbers, not letters or words; number files by date and time and sequence number. Every time you import, the name is applied, easy. Ask me more about this if you want more information.






Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Mon 24-Dec-12 12:33 AM
5099 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 6


Vancouver, CA
          

Thanks for the very comprehensive reply. I want everything in the same location, on the same disc. I've had problems in the past, and I'm just nervous about something happening like accidental deletion or moving, etc.

As for the Catalog, It's going to end up being on the same disk as the images anyways, so I guess it doesn't really matter where it is on the disk. I'm not worried about drive failure.

It looks like my sessions will be organized into Collections, and sub-Collections. I'm very organized by keyword, that's how I locate images or groups of images.

As for Hard Drive space, that's not an issue. I have a custom 4x2TB RAID 5 running, so backups aren't an issue I've been using that for 1 1/2 years without any kind of problem. They are enterprise level drives and I have a 3 year - 6 month rotation plan to replace the disks even though they are warranted for 7 years. I use ChronoSync to control my backups and it's done every night at 2:00AM My Legacy images are backed up to a separate drive and stored off-site.

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
MrsNikon Registered since 06th Mar 2009Mon 24-Dec-12 01:09 AM
239 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 10


Ivoryton, US
          

Hi Allen, I used both Aperture and LR for a year each and settled on Lightroom and have been using it since Version 3. During my Aperture days, I used a Managed system to take advantage of the Vault feature Aperture had to offer. Keep in mind that backing up your catalog, (the Lightroom .lrcat file) doesn't backup your image files. This is an important distinction to make that differes greatly from the Vault feature you may have been used to in Aperture.

The Lightroom catalog only stores your changes and only 'points' to where they physically reside.

Tammy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Mon 24-Dec-12 01:19 AM
5099 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 12


Vancouver, CA
          

Thanks Tammy, I figured that out with a couple of test backups, but it makes sense. I want to run it as similar to an Aperture "managed" library as I can, and it seems I've figured that out. I'm quite "nervous" and very obsessive about where and how my images are stored.

Instead of backing up the Vault, I will just back up the entire Directory that include the .lrcat file and the images.

As for bringing my images over from Aperture, not sure what I'm going to do about that beyond my legacy images. I'll probably just keep them backed up in the Vault and if I need them, then I can just export them from there. Not really interested in re-adjusting 115,000 images for a second time.

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
MrsNikon Registered since 06th Mar 2009Mon 24-Dec-12 02:36 AM
239 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 13


Ivoryton, US
          

I was working with both systems in a testing environment. I had one small project I decided to bring over to LR. In Aperture, I wrote IPTC Metadata to Original. LR sees the metadata in the original file that it imports however it doesn't import changes like color and contrast adjustments - only IPTC metadata.

In any event, 115k images to reprocess is more of an undertaking I'd be willing to commit to as well.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Tue 25-Dec-12 01:03 PM
1265 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#16. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 13


Toronto, CA
          

>Thanks Tammy, I figured that out with a couple of test
>backups, but it makes sense. I want to run it as similar to an
>Aperture "managed" library as I can, and it seems
>I've figured that out. I'm quite "nervous" and very
>obsessive about where and how my images are stored.
>
>Instead of backing up the Vault, I will just back up the
>entire Directory that include the .lrcat file and the images.

You probably want to use LR's "Backup" to make backup copies of the catalog -- they will be in a folder in the same location as the .lrcat file. When you do that backup, it checks the integrity of the catalog, and compresses it. It also gives you the ability to go back to various versions of the catalog if you accidentally did some gross thing like make a change with 2000 photos selected last week.

Then of course using your backup of the main directory you will have a backup of the backups too.


----
Dennis Smith.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
William Symonds Registered since 22nd Jan 2007Tue 25-Dec-12 08:05 PM
1556 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#17. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 13


Bogor, ID
          

I've just started using LR, after Aperture. I am very impressed, and will stay with LR4. Aperture does a ghastly job of converting D600 NEFs and has very limited options for auto-correcting distortion and vignetting. By contrast LR4 makes RAW conversion a doddle and a joy.

Like you, I think for now I will keep my Aperture library as is, and keep LR for my FX era images. I can generally remember where stuff is.

W i l l

Nikonian in Bogor, West Java
www.willsymonds.com
www.willsymonds.blogspot.com
http://www.nikonians-images.org/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=123586

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Tue 25-Dec-12 08:21 PM
5099 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#18. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 17


Vancouver, CA
          

>I've just started using LR, after Aperture. I am very
>impressed, and will stay with LR4. Aperture does a ghastly job
>of converting D600 NEFs and has very limited options for
>auto-correcting distortion and vignetting. By contrast LR4
>makes RAW conversion a doddle and a joy.
>

Ditto, I can't believe what a terrible job Aperture does in processing the NEF's from the D600. Lightroom and NX2 are about par on each other but I would give the edge to NX2 in a tough lighting situation.

I'm still getting used to the processing, but because it's so similar to Photoshop, the learning curve isn't that steep and the tv.adobe site has some great tutorials.

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
William Symonds Registered since 22nd Jan 2007Tue 25-Dec-12 10:20 PM
1556 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#19. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 18


Bogor, ID
          

You will also find far more support here for LR4. The Apple forum might as well be closed down for all the action it gets. I believe that Aperture 3 came out whilst Lightroom 2 was still around, and before Apple became a phone company.

W i l l

Nikonian in Bogor, West Java
www.willsymonds.com
www.willsymonds.blogspot.com
http://www.nikonians-images.org/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=123586

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Tue 25-Dec-12 10:46 PM
5099 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#20. "RE: LR4 Catalog Behaviour"
In response to Reply # 19


Vancouver, CA
          

>You will also find far more support here for LR4. The Apple
>forum might as well be closed down for all the action it gets.
>I believe that Aperture 3 came out whilst Lightroom 2 was
>still around, and before Apple became a phone company.
>
>W i l l

Yes, other than the requisite RAW update and a bug fix here and there, it really seems Apple has placed Aperture on the back-burner. I'm Apple Certified in Aperture and when people like myself are leaving, they need to start and take note. It's really starting to lack in so many key areas, the biggest being lens correction, proper noise reduction and sharpening tools.

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) Adobe postprocessing software (Public) topic #9664 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.