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Subject: "LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue" Previous topic | Next topic
mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Thu 13-Dec-12 01:08 PM
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"LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"


Simcoe, CA
          

Seems to me to be easier to have a bunch of headings like "Mike Birthdays" with subheading 2010, 2009, 2008 etc , or Sarahs graduation 2010, subheading under Events. BAsically, trying to decide how LR4 is better at organizing stuff like the above than PSE10 is and why is it easier to find stuff later. Can someone please shed a little light on the subject? I've read about the Collections concept in LR4 and understand it along with keywords, but how do I transpose that concept and compare with how PSE10 does things and why is it supposed to be easier?

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
quenton8 Silver Member
13th Dec 2012
1
Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
mjhach Silver Member
13th Dec 2012
2
     Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
quenton8 Silver Member
13th Dec 2012
3
          Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
mjhach Silver Member
14th Dec 2012
4
Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
pdekman Gold Member
14th Dec 2012
5
Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
mjhach Silver Member
14th Dec 2012
6
     Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
pdekman Gold Member
14th Dec 2012
7
     Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
Antero52 Silver Member
14th Dec 2012
8
     Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
quenton8 Silver Member
14th Dec 2012
9
          Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
mjhach Silver Member
15th Dec 2012
10
               Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
quenton8 Silver Member
15th Dec 2012
11
                    Reply message RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue
sabbey51 Gold Member
28th Dec 2012
12

quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Thu 13-Dec-12 03:33 PM
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#1. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 13-Dec-12 03:34 PM by quenton8

Toronto, CA
          

For one thing, LR can search on any meta-data, so for example, you don't need sub-headings of 2010, 2009 etc -- its just there.

So I do things like "Family, Birthday, Kathy" -- so I can find Family and/or Birthdays and/or photos of Kathy, and I know that date will be there if I want it.

Other things that you can search on automatically are
- camera model
- lens
- camera settings when photo taken
- was flash used
- date of photo
then you can search on any text, meta-data, keywords etc which is handy if you have meta-data titles for instance.

I used up to PSE9 -- but PSE9 organizer and print module were buggy which is what sent me to LR. LR's print module has considerably more functionality than PSE.

Then of course LR gives full access to all of ACR (if you shoot RAW you will know a tiny bit of ACR), LR gives it all to you, with a nicer user interface

----
Dennis Smith.

Attachment #1, ( file)

  

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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Thu 13-Dec-12 11:42 PM
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#2. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 1


Simcoe, CA
          

Hmmm. I see. Good points. And, I only shoot RAW. I totally agree that PSE9 was buggy and they wouldn't help unless I pay for it, like $60 or similar and not guaranteeing that the problem would be resolved. I guess PSE doesn't support too well because you don't pay a lot for it in the first place.!!? That's why I went to PSE10. So, I guess once I get comfortable with the nuances of LR4, it will forget much of PSE10??

THanks

Mike.

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Thu 13-Dec-12 11:57 PM
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#3. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 2


Toronto, CA
          

It took me a while to get used to LR after PSE.

I tried the LR3 beta, but could not get my head around it -- it seemed counter-intuitive -- mostly because I had preconceived ideas about what it was.

Then I ran into PSE9 and all of its problems, so I tried LR3 trial version, but this time I had some drive to get into it -- and once I really got into it I loved it.

I used PSE9 as a back-end editor for a while until adobe offered me a deal on CS6 because I had used PSE5/7/9 -- so I moved to CS6.

I find now that I use LR for most of my editing, and go to CS6 when I need to do things like "remove objects", or "paint out marks on a wall", or something major like copy/paste of a person or head or something like that.

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Fri 14-Dec-12 12:18 AM
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#4. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 3


Simcoe, CA
          

Hmm. I didn't know Adobe was so generous. Anyway, good for you and I'll try to plug away with LR4.

So just to rephrase, you included keywords in your last reply. Would you have used the Collections panel stuff in anything you do. Like in PSE, I have a Main catagory for Cottage and then subcatagories like Cottage Opening 1999, Cottage opening 2000, etc. And then under events, I might have under a Main Catagory of Pickles Secondary School, I might have a subcatgory of 1999, and 2000 and 2001 and 2002 etc. How have you utilized this feature??

Thanks.

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pdekman Gold Member Winner in The Nikonians 10th Anniversary Photo Contest Awarded as a regular contributor who offers in-depth knowledge to members who are interested in building efficient work flows. Nikonian since 17th Nov 2005Fri 14-Dec-12 01:00 AM
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#5. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 0


Swisher, US
          

The power of keywords & metadata is the ability to assign a number of identifiers to each photo, and not have to choose where to 'place' things. ie. If Mike's birthday was held in Paris last year and Uncle Phil was there - (and you have categories for events, places and people) where does that image go? Keeping a categorization scheme that is mutually exclusive over time is a lot of work.

Of course, images must reside on the O/S in some location, and the easiest way to avoid duplicate locations is to use time (which is always changing and remains unique). This is why LR has built in YYYY-MM-DD autonaming schemes. Many of use YYYY/YYYY-MM-DD <descriptor> folder naming as a convenient way to keep and traverse files at the O/S level. It keeps files/folder and folders/subfolder count typically in the hundreds and with the short descriptor you can search for shoots at the folder level. i.e. 2011/2011-08-27 Mike's Birthday/

Within LR, you can either traverse the folder structure or just search for keywords "mike" + "birthday" and the images will appear. Collections are best used for aggregating images that exist across folders and for particular purposes. Collections can be 'smart' and will automatically populate based on a rule set. So you might want a collection for a family or particular family member or holidays, etc.

Hope that helps -

Paul
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Fri 14-Dec-12 02:23 AM
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#6. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 5


Simcoe, CA
          

Your first sentence is just that, "a chore" using folder and subfolders. I see that LR4 is just another way albeit, maybe a less intrusive way of organizing. It's just that choosing the right keywords seems to be a bit of a chore so as to not leave anything out. Dont' you think so?

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pdekman Gold Member Winner in The Nikonians 10th Anniversary Photo Contest Awarded as a regular contributor who offers in-depth knowledge to members who are interested in building efficient work flows. Nikonian since 17th Nov 2005Fri 14-Dec-12 02:48 AM
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#7. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 6


Swisher, US
          

Agreed. Keywording takes work as well if you're going to be able to search for items later. I'm ok at it, but still find a lot of my images because I know approx. when I took it and use LR to traverse the folder structure for the date and descriptor name. For times when I want to find all the photos of someone, or birds, etc. I search using keywords.

For me, I like avoiding ambiquity at import time (time-based folders) but I know - and appreciate - that others prefer to organize differently.

Paul
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Antero52 Silver Member Awarded for his expertise in post-processing, being  consistently helpful and professional. Nikonian since 07th Jul 2009Fri 14-Dec-12 06:50 AM
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#8. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 7
Fri 14-Dec-12 06:51 AM by Antero52

Vantaa, FI
          

To me, a huge advantage of LR over PSE, as regards finding my photos, is the ability to use a combination of folders and metadata (keywords, filenames, captions, etc.) I’ve read Paul’s posts #5 and #7 but I am not sure if Paul talks about using metadata OR folders, or metadata AND folders. My folder structure is like this. Under Pictures I have one folder for my photos and another for my wife. In my folder I have annual folders, and in these I have subfolders for various occasions. When I want to find pictures of the archipelago, regardless of who shot the photo or in what year, I search for the keyword (category, actually). If I want to restrict the search to my pictures, I navigate to my pictures folder (not my wife’s) and search for “archipelago”. And if I want to search for my this year’s photos, I start from my this year’s folder and search for the metadata.

Old versions of PSE (7 and 8) had serious bugs in using folders and metadata searches simultaneously. Newer versions (at least 10) have that capability disabled entirely.

I use a lot of collections, both temporary and permanent ones. But usually the first task in creating a collection is finding the photos for the collections. Collections offer some advantages over filtering. For example, you can use multiple different filter combinations and combine the results in a collection. Conversely, it can be impossible to find a single filter combination that results in your desired collection. Plus you can permanently re-arrange the order of photos in a collection. You can do that temporarily in a filtered grid view but the order is lost when you exit and re-enter that view.

Regards, Antero

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Fri 14-Dec-12 11:52 AM
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#9. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 6


Toronto, CA
          

My folder structure is done by LR -- a date folder within a year folder, beyond that I don't care where the photos are.

If I need to get at a file, LR lets me open Explorer (or other for MAC) pointing to any particular photo.

Beyond that, I see no reason to care much, I find and manipulate things using LR.

Collections ...

You asked if I use collections. Yes!!!

I use standard Collections for groups of things I know I will need to go back to time and again. Some are temporary and last for a few weeks or months, others may last forever. A few examples, "Marks Wedding", "Church's Photo Book", "Cruise 2012". This gives me quick access to some things I need or want, without having to type in the search criteria. If I delete one eventually I can still find by the search later.

I use Smart Collections for things that change over time ...

  • Liam (Grandson) five-star (edited to keep)
  • photos without keywords (I keep it empty by ensuring keywords on all photos)
  • To Be Deleted (a workaround, you cannot delete from within a collection, so a flag a photo and it goes here for later delete)
  • Last 2 weeks (things I need to work on)


----
Dennis Smith.

  

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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Sat 15-Dec-12 01:13 AM
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#10. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 9


Simcoe, CA
          

I'm currently using PSE10 in import photos from a card which I like because it renumbers each photo with a unique number, automatically incrementing the number by 1 for each photo imported and then keeps that number until I import again.
In LR4 it seems that to import using this incremental numbering scheme, there is no mechanism to keep the latest number value until the next time importing from a card occurs, in which case you have to go back to the last photo imported in the last session and insert the next hight number into the spot in the import dialogue where you indicate the renaming/renumbering of imported photos occurs, or I suppose you could do it at the end of the current importing session so you don't forget to do it at the next session, otherwise you will have all the same numbers with a "dash 2" appended to each number indicating that a second photo withe the same base number has been added to that particular folder. Am I missing something here - I don't very much like that you have to go back to the file location to find the number that you need to start with in the current importing session.

In PSE10, you can, in the keyword catagories and subcatagories, you can have multiple levels of keyword tags/catagories whereas in the LR4 collections, you can have only two levels, any number of collections in a collection set. So this still makes only two levels.

I could see here say the Collection set being the year and beneath the year, collections you could have could be Dad, Daughter, Mother, Son, Sons friends, Home shots, Cottage shots, Going to NIagara Falls, opening the Cottage, closing the cottage, May visit to cottage etc, etc. Am I getting this right?? or am I off track?

I know it seems like I'm fighting the use of LR4 over PSE10, but I have to see the advantage before I abandon PSE10 for importing, so I hope furthur comments to my issues will help me to see the advantage.

Thanks so much to those who have answered and those yet to guide me.

Sincerely,
Mike

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Sat 15-Dec-12 02:49 AM
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#11. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 10


Toronto, CA
          

There is a way, but it seems to break down when you edit with a backend editor.

In the import screen, upper-right, there is a checkbox to rename your photos. Select that and then edit the template to get a custom format and include "image#" in that. This number starts at 1 when you create a catalog and increments after that.

However, as part of the filename only it can get messed up by the renaming when editing in CSx.

Otherwise, you can in fact pull that number off and print it as part of a title -- I do this when I print photos for our Church so if someone wants a copy they can just give me the number.

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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sabbey51 Gold Member Nikonian since 10th Jan 2010Fri 28-Dec-12 08:42 PM
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#12. "RE: LR4 vs PSE10 re: Organizing Catalogue"
In response to Reply # 11


Saddle river, US
          

I name all i ages imported into LR with one of the several schemes that LR supports: (date) - (shoot name) - (camera image name). So my grandsons birthday might have files named 20120515-Ron's Fourth Birthday-SGA-3657. Unless I wrap around the camera's four digit sequence number on a single day, there's no chance of ever duplicating a file name. It also gives me some de-facto keywords for free: the date, the shoot name, "Birthday", "Ron". LR will let me search on all of these.

LR also allows you to specify the folder to import the files too; I choose a folder with the name (date) (shoot name), which is a subfolder of /Pictures/(year). While this is not necessary, it does neatly segment the 10s of thousands of images into manageable chunks, and also gives me a shot at finding an image outside of LR if the need arises.

I use smart collections and publish collections regularly. For instance, I have a smart publish collection for an annual extended family portrait I try and take. Each time I get a new winner, I simply add the keyword "Thanksgiving Family Shot". The smart collection automatically finds it. I further have a publish collection for each different target, with the output resolution optimized for each of the web, email, iPad 2 and iPad Retina. All I need to do then is select each collection and click on "publish now" and the appropriate jpegs will be generated for each and written to the target destinations for later synching with the right devices.

  

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