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Subject: "LR & File/Folder Handling" Previous topic | Next topic
TerryMc Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Thu 18-Oct-12 12:21 AM
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"LR & File/Folder Handling"


Sagamore Hills, US
          

The library part of LR drives me nuts.

I'm going through and doing some needed spring (or fall as it were) cleaning. Why, oh why, can't I delete a folder with LR? After I move a lot of pictures around and come up with empty folders I can only remove them from the library and not the disk. I either have to tab back and forth between LR and Files Explorer to delete or hope I remember which folders no longer contain pictures so I can go into files explorer after I'm done or write everything down. And God help you if you decided that doing it all in Bridge is easier as you end up with the dreaded ? over the pictures. I know, it will be made available in Lightroom 5.

Egads. (insert head hitting wall icon here)

Terry

  

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: LR & File/Folder Handling
walkerr Administrator
18th Oct 2012
1
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TerryMc Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
2
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barrywesthead Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
3
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quenton8 Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
4
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barrywesthead Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
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quenton8 Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
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TerryMc Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
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quenton8 Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
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HenkB Silver Member
18th Oct 2012
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TerryMc Silver Member
19th Oct 2012
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walkerr Administrator
20th Oct 2012
11
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TerryMc Silver Member
20th Oct 2012
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HenkB Silver Member
20th Oct 2012
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photomia Silver Member
20th Oct 2012
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blw Moderator
20th Oct 2012
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PAStime Silver Member
21st Oct 2012
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quenton8 Silver Member
21st Oct 2012
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blw Moderator
21st Oct 2012
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 18-Oct-12 03:34 AM
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#1. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          

Just right-click on the folder you want to remove, select Show in Finder or Explorer, delete the folder, and then right-click the folder in LR's folder panel and hit "remove". It'll be gone from both your system, as well as Lightroom. There's no need to hunt for it or write anything down.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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TerryMc Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Thu 18-Oct-12 11:54 AM
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#2. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 1


Sagamore Hills, US
          

Of course you can always do it that way.... (tongue in cheek)

Thanks Rick, peace returns to our household.

Terry

  

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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Thu 18-Oct-12 01:50 PM
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#3. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 0


Kleinburg, CA
          


Works for me. Removing an empty folder in LR also deletes it from the disk directory. However, this is true only for folders which are empty.

You wouldn't want LR to delete a folder which is not empty because it can't see files other than image files so it could unknowingly delete other types of files.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Thu 18-Oct-12 02:08 PM
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#4. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 0


Toronto, CA
          

I would like to ask a question which I ask from time to time of LR users.

Why do you care about folders?

I know not everyone uses LR in the same way, but my folders are
- 2012/2012-10-18
so my photos are scattered, no overly large folder contents, and from that point on I don't know or care where photos are.

Photos are then organized in LR, using keywords, collections, smart-collections, and of course LR can find by date as well as many other metadata items from the photos themselves.

The problem I have with folders is that I create a folder for
- Jane's Wedding
but it also has photos of my grandson, so I want it in my "Grandson" folder and you cannot do that, so "keywords".

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Thu 18-Oct-12 02:43 PM
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#5. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu 18-Oct-12 02:46 PM by barrywesthead

Kleinburg, CA
          

>
>Why do you care about folders?
>I know not everyone uses LR in the same way, but my folders are - 2012/2012-10-18

I think a few classifications may be useful for saving time in recalling frequently use images but probably the most common reason for having any folder structure at all is as a backup should a library and it’s backups become corrupt.

When you think about it the actual image files are scattered all over the hard drive in allocated and re-allocated sectors so we have no idea where the image files are if the Windows Master File Table corrupts.

For whatever reason I’m highly disciplined in keeping backups but relatively undisciplined in the use of keywords so I do rely on folders to some degree --AND-- the fact that with a full screen Lightroom grid display and a finger on the <Page Down> key it doesn’t take long to scan through several thousand images, which is where having some idea when an image was captured is handy.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Thu 18-Oct-12 02:59 PM
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#8. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 5


Toronto, CA
          

>>
>>Why do you care about folders?
>>I know not everyone uses LR in the same way, but my
>folders are - 2012/2012-10-18
>
>I think a few classifications may be useful for saving time in
>recalling frequently use images but probably the most common
>reason for having any folder structure at all is as a backup
>should a library and it’s backups become corrupt.
>
>When you think about it the actual image files are scattered
>all over the hard drive in allocated and re-allocated sectors
>so we have no idea where the image files are if the Windows
>Master File Table corrupts.
>
>For whatever reason I’m highly disciplined in keeping backups
>but relatively undisciplined in the use of keywords so I do
>rely on folders to some degree --AND-- the fact that with a
>full screen Lightroom grid display and a finger on the
><Page Down> key it doesn’t take long to scan through
>several thousand images, which is where having some idea when
>an image was captured is handy.
>
>Barry
>http://art2printimages.com
>
>

My backups don't care -- I have three 2Tb drives
- one for the main photos (USB-3)
- one for nightly backups (USB-2)
- one for weekly backups (USB-2)
the backup applies any changes or deletes made to the nightly drive, and changes but no deletes to the weekly drive.

I then have 2 other drives which rotate off-site and are backed up to by a manually invoked script.

So if I have to recover a single photo, it will be in the same directory structure as the original on my main drive -- if that is lost I can figure it out by the date/time of the photo.

If I have to recover everything its just a very long recursive folder copy.

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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TerryMc Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Thu 18-Oct-12 02:47 PM
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#6. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 4
Thu 18-Oct-12 03:46 PM by TerryMc

Sagamore Hills, US
          

>I would like to ask a question which I ask from time to time
>of LR users.
>
>Why do you care about folders?

Hello Dennis:

Old habit I guess. I have folders set for items; flowers, butterflies, horses, daughter son ect. This just goes back to early DOS days and how you found things on the computer - C:\> DIR.

Old habits die hard.

Terry

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Thu 18-Oct-12 02:53 PM
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#7. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 6


Toronto, CA
          

>>I would like to ask a question which I ask from time to
>time
>>of LR users.
>>
>>Why do you care about folders?
>
>Hello Dennis:
>
>Old habit I guess. I have folders set for items, flowers,
>butterflies, horses, daughter son ect. This just goes back to
>early DOS days and how you found things on the computer -
>C:\> DIR.
>
>Old habits die hard.

I started out doing that -- had folders for JohnsWedding, Christmas2012, ...

That was in my PSE days where keywords were not great and the thing was buggy, so I would often go and find things.

When I moved to LR I took the folder structure with me and kept doing it (creating new folders for things) -- made the import process laborious.

Then I found I was not USING the folder names I was creating, only using keywords and meta-data, and I finally gave in (it was HARD to give up what felt like "control") -- but now I just never care anymore.

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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HenkB Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2004Thu 18-Oct-12 03:43 PM
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#9. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 7


Wayland, US
          

You probably have your pre-LR folders set up just as they were. So too, me. Once I twigged to the power of keywords, though, like you, I jettisoned all folder control although I do make one exception. Even though it would make no great difference to amalgamate all folders made by all cameras, I maintain master folders for each individual camera since I usually know just which camera I used to take a particular photo and this makes the visual search a little less onerous. In the case of shoots that involve two cameras, all those images go immediately into a single collection so I am not dealing with two folders. It's a little quirky, I admit, and might change any time but, for now, it works for me. That's the delightful thing about LR, there are so many redundancies built in that it can accommodate different styles.

Best,

Hendrik

  

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TerryMc Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Fri 19-Oct-12 08:19 PM
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#10. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 9


Sagamore Hills, US
          

Let's say you're out for a stroll in the park and have taken numerous different shots - waterfall, trees, a bug or two, some folks on horseback. How do you apply keywords when importing when all the pictures are different? I'm trying to imagine workflow without separating them out. I also have a folder named "to be worked on" for all the pictures that I think are keepers but haven't had time to develop yet.

Thanks.

Terry

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sat 20-Oct-12 01:22 AM
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#11. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 10


Colorado Springs, US
          

The keywords you apply when you import are ones that apply to that entire shoot - the name of the park could be an example. There are a large number of ways to apply keywords to individual photos or sets of photos: selecting a set of images and dragging them to a keyword, dragging the keyword to a selected group of photos, right-clicking on a keyword when a group of images is selected, using the spray can...It's really up to you and can be quite fast. It wouldn't be quicker if you did it selectively during the import process because you'd still need to do similar actions.

As for folders indicating which images need to be worked on, consider using color labels instead. When I need to this, I use a red color label indicating that it's a keeper that needs editing and either flip it to green when I'm done or clear it. Handling it this way enables you to filter down to only the images you still need to edit (and they automatically disappear when you change the label) plus there are no extraneous folders created. Ditto with many other things where you would have created temporary folders in the past. They're almost never needed in LR.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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TerryMc Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Oct 2008Sat 20-Oct-12 01:04 PM
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#13. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 11


Sagamore Hills, US
          

Thanks for the insight Rick.


I have keyworded my photos as of late but am still plunking them into a folder structure as well. Creating extra work for myself I suppose.

Terry

  

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HenkB Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2004Sat 20-Oct-12 02:21 PM
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#15. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 10


Wayland, US
          

There are lots of ways of doing this. My keywords list is about 100 long. Coming in from the morning's dog walk I will put the card in the reader and apply to the group at least two keywords, Morning Walk and the name of the property we were on. I could also apply Fall Colors, for instance or keywords for other dogs, particular flowers or ferns, butterflies, weather, clouds, you name it, etc. Then, once the whole shoot was ingested I would have the opportunity in grid mode to remove keywords where they didn't apply. Yes it's backwards and idiosyncratic but it works for me. This just speaks to the utility of LR which can be used in any number of different ways. But this will allow me to find all my photos of ferns or only those taken in fall colors season, or summer, or spring or winter. One adds specificity by adding discrete keywords to the list. Coming in from a shoot for someone new simply enter that name in the keyword box - LR will happily add it, you don't even have to go through a confirmation dialog box. Every once in a while it does help to go through the keyword list and tighten things up, getting rid of misspellings and other such.

Best,

Hendrik

  

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photomia Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2011Sat 20-Oct-12 03:09 AM
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#12. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 4


MD, US
          

Speaking of keywords - can I use two keywords (comma in between) to narrow things down even more? Say you are looking for an image of your grandson, but only at the park. Can you enter, grandson, park, instead of just grandson, so you don't get a gazillion pictures of your grandson. (I ask this because I have a gazillion pictures of my granddaughters!)

Thanks,

Pat

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Sat 20-Oct-12 01:46 PM
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#14. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 12


Richmond, US
          

Absolutely. That's the power of key wording.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Sun 21-Oct-12 12:28 AM
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#16. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 4


Kingston, CA
          


>Why do you care about folders?

>I know not everyone uses LR in the same way, but my folders
>are - 2012/2012-10-18

Well, I think you are contradicting yourself! If you didn't care about folders, everything would be in /. But it isn't by your own doing!

Peter

PS: I do get the point - LR is your DAM. I too use a yyyy/mm/dd storage schema.

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Sun 21-Oct-12 12:58 PM
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#17. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 16


Toronto, CA
          

>
>>Why do you care about folders?
>
>>I know not everyone uses LR in the same way, but my
>folders
>>are - 2012/2012-10-18
>
>Well, I think you are contradicting yourself! If you didn't
>care about folders, everything would be in /. But it isn't
>by your own doing!
>
>Peter
>

Hm -- maybe I should try that

But just to be serious for a minute, as directories grow in size they start to slow down -- I don't know if there is a limit on Windows, but even so, 1000's of files in one folder can be a problem -- so some automated way of spreading things out is a good idea, so I chose one that LR would take care of for me.


>
>

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Sun 21-Oct-12 03:23 PM
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#18. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 17
Sun 21-Oct-12 03:25 PM by blw

Richmond, US
          

> I don't know if there is a limit on Windows, but even so, 1000's of files in one folder can be a problem

Definitely so. There are several kinds of problems. First, most file systems store directories linearly, so as they grow larger, it takes an increasingly large amount of time to work with them. This isn't much of a problem with 500 files, nor is it too bad with 5,000. But it's a hideous problem with 100,000. (Deducing why I know this is left as an exercise for the reader...)

Secondly, even if the directory is stored in a hashed form (the file system I work on does this), there's a lot of bad behavior out there. For example, consider a directory with 3.3 million files, stored in a directory that hashes its entries. Using a system like this would not be a problem with Lightroom. However, if you want to bring that system to its knees, just hook up a Windows system, mount it up via network, and then navigate there with Explorer. Step well back - your network is about to melt. Windows is constantly trying to look up every one of those files, sort them and set a file event monitor on them to be notified if they've been changed. On all 3.3 million of them... This is not a theoretical problem.

There are other issues along the same kinds of lines.

So for a variety of reasons it's a useful thing to split up files into some directories.

I still import my files into LR into roughly a directory per shoot, largely for these reasons. But I usually find the files via keyword or other metadata. Note that finding the files can be a pretty sophisticated operation: all railroad images that are basically art (as opposed to roster or detail shots), that are of C&O subjects, and which are flagged or at least three stars.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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pdekman Gold Member Winner in The Nikonians 10th Anniversary Photo Contest Awarded as a regular contributor who offers in-depth knowledge to members who are interested in building efficient work flows. Nikonian since 17th Nov 2005Mon 22-Oct-12 12:13 AM
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#19. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 16


Swisher, US
          

As mentioned, folders are important at the O/S level to maintain reasonable granularity of file storage, AND folder names are visible within Lightroom when making selections. For me, the YYYY/YYYY-MM-DD <descriptor> naming convention works best to provide both a time reference and quick reminder of the shoot.

Paul
My Nikonians Gallery

  

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PAStime Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Feb 2009Mon 22-Oct-12 01:17 AM
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#20. "RE: LR & File/Folder Handling"
In response to Reply # 19


Kingston, CA
          

Agreed.

As well, the world also doesn't revolve around Lightroom. I can think of 3 instances where the disk level hierarchy is useful:

- replicating that hierarchy for exporting many photos to an iPad. I use Jeffrey Friedl\'s utility for this.
- more easily finding images from a shoot which you need to ftp or otherwise transfer to some service that doesn't have a LR plug-in
- diagnosing a problem with LR which requires disk level work

Cheers,
Peter

  

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