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Subject: "LR 4 - What am I missing?" Previous topic | Next topic
dgs2 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2004Mon 15-Oct-12 07:56 PM
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"LR 4 - What am I missing?"


San Francisco, US
          

OK, I have used Photoshop since 2003. Added NX 2 in 2006, and various other software/plugins from mostly Nik. So I'm not exactly new at this. When Apple released Aperture on the App store, I bought it at the $79 price, since it seemed a bargain to try. I used Aperture quite a bit and liked it. However, I still think NX 2 does the best job with NEF files. Recently, I read a lot about LR 4 and tried it. It seemed to do a better job with RAW conversion (almost all that I shoot) than Aperture so I decided to try to switch. However, I just cannot get used to the work flow/interface. I've purchased Victoria Brampton's and Scott Kelby's books, but the LR 4 UI does just not seem as intuitive as Aperture or as familiar as Photoshop or NX 2. I just came back from Yellowstone with 2000+ photos and was hoping to run most of them through LR 4, but after a long and frustrating day, yesterday, I'm about to give up. The latest version of Aperture seems to have improved the RAW conversion for my D7000 files and I feel a lot more comfortable using it. Long-term, I still wonder about Apple's and Nikon's commitment to their respective Apps, which is why I wanted to switch to LR 4. Maybe I should just stick with what works for me and wait until I'm forced to switch? Any thoughts/suggestions appreciated.

dgs

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
esantos Moderator
15th Oct 2012
1
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
archivue Gold Member
15th Oct 2012
2
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
dgs2 Silver Member
15th Oct 2012
3
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
walkerr Administrator
15th Oct 2012
4
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
R Neil
16th Oct 2012
5
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
dgs2 Silver Member
16th Oct 2012
6
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
quenton8 Silver Member
16th Oct 2012
7
     Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
R Neil
16th Oct 2012
8
          Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
dgs2 Silver Member
17th Oct 2012
9
               Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
elcee Silver Member
17th Oct 2012
10
                    Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
quenton8 Silver Member
17th Oct 2012
11
                         Reply message Try These DVD's
chesterdawg Silver Member
24th Oct 2012
12
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
Bug Gold Member
30th Oct 2012
13
     Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
blw Moderator
30th Oct 2012
14
          Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
archivue Gold Member
30th Oct 2012
15
Reply message RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?
Cowboy Charley Silver Member
31st Oct 2012
16

esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Mon 15-Oct-12 09:11 PM
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#1. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 0


McAllen, US
          

I have LR 4 but I don't use it too much. I prefer Photoshop and ACR. Nothing wrong with that, and I really don't think you are missing anything. You should work with what makes sense to you and you feel comfortable with until something comes along that is far superior. Since Photoshop CS6 and LR 4 use the same NEF processor I'm not concerned about missing anything.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

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archivue Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Mar 2002Mon 15-Oct-12 10:32 PM
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#2. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 0


Paris, FR
          

I have both, meaning Aperture 3.4.1 and LR 4.2... Most time I use LR because of the lens correcting part and because Aperture can be quite slow.
In most cases I find Aperture's doing a better color job (or even B&W) but LR's noise treatment is much better...
Keywords and library management is maybe a bit easier on LR (more intuitive).

So each has it's good points.... I don't use PS for photography but more for editing CAD renderings in pictures (I'm an architect)! I don't use NX2 either !

So I believe each of us has to find the tools that work for us, and it isn't always easy to change some acquired habits, but sometimes it's worth the trouble...

Jacques

"Un photographe, finalement, c'est quelqu'un comme les autres, mais qui prend des photos." - Man Ray
My Gallery...
My Other Gallery...

  

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dgs2 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2004Mon 15-Oct-12 11:42 PM
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#3. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 2


San Francisco, US
          

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I feel better, as it seems sometimes as the whole world loves LR except me. I do like the lens correction in LR and some of other features. Point well taken regarding making the effort to change our old habits

dgs

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Mon 15-Oct-12 11:54 PM
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#4. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          

I think a lot depends on what you're familiar with. I have LR4, Aperture and NX2 on my computers (plus a few other programs), but it's LR4, coupled with Photoshop CS6 that gets used. For me, LR is quicker to use and more intuitive than Aperture (probably just due to the lesser amount of time I've used Aperture) and far quicker and easier to use than NX2 (and I'm pretty proficient with NX2). I can't tell you which decision you should make, except that I believe with a little bit of education, you can get through image editing quite quickly with LR4, and it integrates extremely well with Photoshop.

One thing I've noticed is that people rarely struggle with the editing controls since they're so straightforward, but cataloging is something that either aligns with the way you think or it doesn't. For me, it aligns extremely well. For others, it's more of a forced fit. You'll need to figure out which camp you're in.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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R Neil Registered since 30th Aug 2012Tue 16-Oct-12 12:47 AM
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#5. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Getting used to an interface is (for me at least) 90% of getting a program "usable" for me. So I grok your frustrations, and personally, I HATE it when folks just tell me 'try it and you'll get used to it fast' on something I've already spent hours on.

Quick example ... so many of my colleagues (yea, I've made my living as a portrait photog for nearing 40 years) have told me that Mac's are SO much more intuitive.

Really ... for the life of me, I can't get around on a Mac. I spent a couple hours playing with a friends laptop, and couldn't even open most of the programs ... that bad. Sorry, but it ain't intuitive for me.

As far as learning to use Lightroom ... it is such a different beast than it looks like it is. Seriously. Mixing photo-manipulation tools with DAM tools so puzzles most of the folks trying to use it. But ... go to a real DAM program, like IdImager or MediaPro ... they're even more obscure to most people.

The photo-manipulation tools of Lr are amazing ... yet even then, until your brain does kick over into understanding how they work and relate to your images, it'll drive you nuts.

The best advice is ... you can't MAKE Lr work like *this* (any way you wanted to) ... any more than you can make a person into something other than the unique person they are. You have to get to know them ... and you have to get to know Lightroom. It's very worthwhile, but ... it's not a quick cheap date.

Rather than working a large group of images right off the bat, I would STRONGLY recommend taking a group of say, 15 or 20 images shot in about 3 different locations, "import" them into one or two folders ... and play. Try doing some image-mod work with the quickie tools available in the Library panel, then ... go into develop and use the tools there.

Move some images around using the left-hand panel in the Library panel, creating folders on your drive and moving images around. Make a few collections, practice rating and color-coding your images. Practice adding keywords and metadata. Learn how to create metadata and re-naming templates that would be useful for you. Try searching the images ... various and sundry ways.

Then add in some more images, and work at refining your culling skills. Recently, I ... STRONGLY suggested ... my wife go through her sessions only selecting the top keepers as her "method", rather than starting by rejecting the worst ones. It was amazing to her how quickly that speeding the image culling process ... dramatically.

There are a TON of ways using Lr can speed your work. But it's near impossible to get there by starting with a few hundred images and trying to immediately match how you'd work ... and as fast as you'd work ... any previous workflow you've had. Won't happen that way.

If you work with Lr to learn a different way of doing things, then ... it can be a major game-change for the better.

And again, it may not ever work for you.

Neil

  

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dgs2 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2004Tue 16-Oct-12 08:19 AM
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#6. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 5


San Francisco, US
          

Thanks again, Nikonians! Neil, your response is very helpful. Thanks to all. I must say that I'm overwhelmed by the thoughtful, helpful responses to this post. I will keep trying to "grok" this new beast. I find Mac/PC transition to be no problem, so hope I can do the same with Lightroom. I guess this is because I've always used PCs at work and a Mac at home for the last seven years. Thanks again to all who have responded.

dgs

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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Tue 16-Oct-12 12:55 PM
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#7. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 6


Toronto, CA
          

Well -- I don't process 2000 in one shot, but 100 to 200 maybe.

I do not shoot professionally, mostly shooting for me and also for my Church.

I had originally used PSE for organization and editing. I installed the 30day evaluation of LR3 and played with it on and off over the 30 days. I could not get my head around it and finally just dropped the whole thing.

Then I upgraded my PSE, and the print module and organization module were so buggy as to be almost unusable. That drove me to really get something else.

I decided to bite the bullet and I purchased LR3. Having no other avenue for organization and printing, I set my mind to it -- and once I got to really using it, I started to like it.

So I figure that with PSE to fall back on (before the buggy release) I just took the easy route and did not try.

Now? I love LR and spend much of my editing and organization time in it. I only flip to CS6 when I need to do some serious editing of the photo content.

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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R Neil Registered since 30th Aug 2012Tue 16-Oct-12 09:04 PM
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#8. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 7


US
          

Dennis' comment is SO spot-on.

Lr, and it's "Parametric Image Enhancement" design paradigm is SUCH a different beast than Photoshop or any "pixel-pusher" image-manipulation program. It doesn't do anything like you first expect it will. THAT is so frustrating!

Then add in a certain level of 'DAM' design to the "paradigm" of Lr, being "Digital Asset Management" ... and it's even weirder.

You think it's just like having the old "Bridge" with a bit of lite-Photoshop built in ... BUT IT AIN'T.

Not even close. Now, folks used to "real" heavy-lifting DAM programs will note that Lr is missing many of the tools most major DAM's have, just as it misses many of Photoshop's "heavy" or detailed manipulation tools. But still, it's got a DAM-sight more DAM to it than most folks are used to.

It takes learning how it's manipulation tools are designed to work, after losing the ideas you had on starting ... how you THOUGHT they should work. THEN throw it the organization part ... we're all just used to our pics being in folders and/or "libraries" ... and we move as we wist. Well ... once they're "imported" into Lr's database, you need to MOVE them from within Lr's "Library" panel, or it gets unhappy with you. That's a place that really ticks off a lot of early-users!

But Dennis is so right ... it frustrates the HELL out of you for a while, you'll probably need to ask a lot of questions of others using it. Be warned ... people use it in SO many different ways you'll get confusing answers at first. But as you "poke the box" in Seth-Godin-speak, you'll start to see which ways of using it make more sense, and hone in on using the experience of others who use it like you do to help YOUR use of it start moving along.

And after a bit ... well ... it's ... home.

Neil

  

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dgs2 Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Sep 2004Wed 17-Oct-12 02:33 AM
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#9. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 8


San Francisco, US
          

Love your posts Neil and all. Thanks!

dgs

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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elcee Silver Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his sharing knowledge contributions to the community in addition to his words of encouragement for further advancement Nikonian since 01st Nov 2005Wed 17-Oct-12 08:26 PM
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#10. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 9
Wed 17-Oct-12 08:29 PM by elcee

Albuquerque, US
          

Interesting thread!

David, I don't have "one" catalog but many (one for every photo session);
as far as I understand, that cripples most of DAM -- can't hunt for keywords in
another catalog, so why bother?

I change filenames on import, so I use my OS' search utility to look for "SessionX" folders;
poor, but I make do, especially with my AMS (Ancillary Memory System: wife remembers!).
When I used Photoshop to process a wedding, I had to open 10 files at a time due to
limited RAM. Processing 800+ photos took days.

Same when attempting batch processing in Bridge -- but at least one can synchronize edits,
copying edits to the 10 images open.

Lightroom was a Godsend -- I can process 800 images in under 2 hours. Before Apple
discontinued web galleries, I could have wedding photos available for viewing within a few hours.

~LarryC (eLCee)

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Wed 17-Oct-12 10:09 PM
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#11. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 10
Wed 17-Oct-12 10:09 PM by quenton8

Toronto, CA
          

I am curious why you would have so many catalogs??? What is the advantage to having multiple catalogs instead of collections within one catalog??

I DO have 3 catalogs
- family/personal
- church (which I keep FOR the church not just of the church)
- Greg (my grown son), I keep his ""Canon"" photos

But otherwise I have maybe 40 or 50 collections (could be more?)

I use keywords to find groups of things.

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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chesterdawg Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Jul 2010Wed 24-Oct-12 01:41 PM
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#12. "Try These DVD's"
In response to Reply # 11


Commerce, US
          

These DVD's go through each item in each module in order:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Adobe-Lightroom-4-Software-Tutorial-Training-10-hrs-223-Videos-on-2-DVDs-/300796144695?pt=US_Education_Language_Reference_Software&hash=item4608d8ec37


Steve

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Bug Gold Member Nikonian since 06th Mar 2007Tue 30-Oct-12 08:44 PM
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#13. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 5


Michigan, US
          

Ok, I'll bite... please what is "Grok"?

Thanks

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 30-Oct-12 09:30 PM
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#14. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 13


Richmond, US
          

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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archivue Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Mar 2002Tue 30-Oct-12 11:23 PM
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#15. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 14


Paris, FR
          

Wow... I'm learning everyday at Nikonians (and from Heinlein, gee whiz !!!)

Jacques

"Un photographe, finalement, c'est quelqu'un comme les autres, mais qui prend des photos." - Man Ray
My Gallery...
My Other Gallery...

  

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Cowboy Charley Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jul 2007Wed 31-Oct-12 09:47 AM
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#16. "RE: LR 4 - What am I missing?"
In response to Reply # 0


Johnston, US
          

Hi,

Hang in there working and using your new LR4, your rewards will be paid back in full once you understand it all. Yes, LR can be very daunting and can leave you feeling perplexed. I have been a LR user since it came out on the market back in 2007. Here are my recommendations to you.
1.) Whatever LR task(s) you want to perform Google that task for a Vimeo, YouTube or AdobeLab video tutorials. My best teacher always is Julieanne Kost (awesome), Terry White (awesome), George Jardine, Laura Shoe.
2.) This is my choice on a book on the right book for references. I trust two writers for easy reading to follow and understand. a. MARTIN EVENING's book for LR4 is superb, probably one of the best writers for the program. b. Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen), I have her book is and easy FAQ format. I refer more Evenings book over Kelby's book any day.
3.) Once started in LR get started learning what PRESETS are. Build your own and streamline your work starting at importing, name titling, metadata info, exporting to mail, iPhoto, and develop presets.
4.) Create a hierarchy folder(s) name for your images in Folders, build and use that same hierarchy in Collections, Keywords, and Publish Services. Using the same hierarchy throughout simplifies things when keywording images or going to Collections.
5.) Be patient, learning LR IS NOT going to happen over night, but every step you take with LR now will be one closer. Stay with it if you don't use it you will lose what knowledge you gained somewhat.

  

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