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we6harringtons Registered since 27th Jan 2013Mon 18-Mar-13 03:24 AM
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"Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"


US
          

I have photoshop 5. I am thoroughly confused by it. I prefer using picasa. It is much easier.

  

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daswolfe Silver Member
18th Mar 2013
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Antero52 Silver Member
18th Mar 2013
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blw Moderator
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djreed Gold Member
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lukaswerth
19th Mar 2013
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blw Moderator
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21st Mar 2013
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24th Mar 2013
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19th Mar 2013
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daswolfe Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Apr 2008Mon 18-Mar-13 03:52 AM
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#1. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 0


Norwich, US
          

NOPE
Remember that stuff called film. I'm on my soap box now, a good photographer should be able, with todays technology to get it right "IN CAMERA". Photoshop or whatever Post processing software you choose to use is just a digital darkroom. I'm sure Ansel Adams always tried to get it right on film, but he still spent hours in the lab.
He would probably embrace the new technnology but there is no substitute for a good exposure. Say AMEN.

Gratitude is the sign of noble souls

  

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Antero52 Silver Member Awarded for his expertise in post-processing, being  consistently helpful and professional. Nikonian since 07th Jul 2009Mon 18-Mar-13 05:47 AM
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#2. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 1


Vantaa, FI
          

Photoshop or PP in general may be necessary, or nearly so, in competitive environments. Ansel Adams didn’t use Photoshop but neither did his competitors.

Regards, Antero

  

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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Tue 19-Mar-13 12:52 AM
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#8. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 2
Tue 19-Mar-13 12:54 AM by barrywesthead

Kleinburg, CA
          

>Photoshop or PP in general may be necessary, or nearly so, in
>competitive environments. Ansel Adams didn’t use Photoshop but
>neither did his competitors.
>
True but Ansel spent more time in the dark room on an image than he did capturing the negative and constantly refined many of his most famous works over the years through chemical post-processing, to the extent that versions of many prints he sold from a negative were vastly different.

Here’s a relevant Ansel quote:

“The time will come when you will be able to make the entire photograph electronically, with extremely high resolution and the enormous control you can get from electronics, the results will be fantastic. I wish I were young again.” Ansel Adams, in his 82nd year, 1984.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 18-Mar-13 06:03 AM
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#3. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

Literally, no, one does not need Photoshop. I am quite comfortable with Photoshop, but I probably put less than 2% of my frames through Photoshop. On the other hand, I do a lot with Lightroom - essentially 100% of shots that will get used get processing in Lightroom.

Picasa is much easier than Photoshop, and perhaps much easier than Lightroom, but it also doesn't do nearly as much. On the other hand, perhaps you don't need all that stuff.

And I disagree with the poster above when he says that you should be able to get it right in camera. Of course it's better to get it as right as possible in camera. But sometimes - and I personally believe that it's many times - you just can't do that. It's not that I'm a lousy or careless photographer (on the former, see my gallery; on the latter, you'll have to take my word for it, but the gallery will tell you something nonetheless). In fact, I've written about the topic of post processing when one simply cannot get it "right" in camera: see this thread.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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Gamecocks Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jul 2010Mon 18-Mar-13 03:10 PM
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#4. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 3


Joanna, US
          


As usual, you have provided an intelligent reply and great example.

John

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. <><

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Mon 18-Mar-13 07:06 PM
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#5. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 4


Toronto, CA
          

I think there are a number of points that need to be addressed here ...

  • if you photograph in RAW mode, you DO need to do post-processing, even if its only to Sharpen
  • if you let the camera sharpen it for you, that is post-processing too
  • getting it right in the camera is one thing, but ...
    • why lose a good or even great shot when you can easily recover by PP -- why use Digital at all if you are not going to do that
    • if, shooting film, you did your own printing, you likely cropped and rotated, dodged and burned -- in other words you post-processed it
    • if you did NOT do your own printing, but you used a pro lab, it probably did some of that for you
  • digital is a new medium -- why restrict yourself to what the old medium restricted you to?
  • graphic artists used to cut and paste from multiple photographs, copy it or rephotograph to get the result they needed -- instead now they can use photoshop. In fact, they may have used it on scanned film photos (used photoshop I mean).

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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PSAGuy Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Nov 2008Mon 18-Mar-13 07:42 PM
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#6. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 0


Lake Elmo, US
          

I would suggest getting a copy of Lightroom 4 (by Adobe). It has almost everything you need to handle making your photos truly outstanding, assuming your photos were composed properly, and free of any issues like dust etc.
Unless you need to fix blemishes, take out telephone poles, or add objects into your photos... Lightroom 4 will handle your needs beautifully.

  

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djreed Gold Member Nikonian since 02nd Jul 2008Mon 18-Mar-13 11:19 PM
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#7. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 6


Downers Grove, US
          

I totally agree.... Lightroom 4 will serve most if not all of your PP needs. If you should process to more modification requirements OnOne's Perfect Photo Suite is amazing! Good luck.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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lukaswerth Registered since 24th May 2012Tue 19-Mar-13 02:07 AM
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#9. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 7


Lahore, PK
          

With regard to getting it right in the camera and Ansel Adams:
He used to emphasize that the negative, that what you get in the camera, is only a starting point, what is a score in music, which must necessarily be interpreted - and he certainly did so. The RAW file is the digital equivalent.

I actually think that film, particularly monochrome film, still may have a place in the digital world, and Adams did certainly did everything to get most out of it according to his ends (where he was, in my opinion at least, in some ways quite dogmatic and restrictive).

I do think that a big temptation in these days is to take pictures carelessly and then rely on postprocessing - the starting point is, for me at least, essential, but it is only a starting point which I need to interpret, and for this PS is, for all its flaws (see my other post) the most powerful tool I know.

Lukas

Trying to be a keeper of the light

  

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ruleboy Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2011Tue 19-Mar-13 06:24 PM
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#12. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 6


Palm City, US
          

I have PS Elements 9 and a PC. I have tried for months to learn how to use Elements and get continually frustrated. Is Lightroom any easier to use?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 19-Mar-13 08:56 PM
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#13. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 12


Richmond, US
          

I certainly think it is, but that isn't a universal opinion. Have you tried any of the workflow-oriented books, such as one of the ones by Scott Kelby approximately "Photoshop Elements for Digital Photography?"

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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ruleboy Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2011Tue 19-Mar-13 09:07 PM
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#14. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 13


Palm City, US
          

Thanks for the reply, Brian. Yes, I've tried several books on Elelments 9. They all get too technical for me.

What do you think of capture NX2? Easy too learn?

John

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Genjokoan Registered since 26th Feb 2013Thu 21-Mar-13 03:15 AM
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#18. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 14


Marietta, US
          

Hi John, I would like to approach your questions from a different angle. From reading your posts, I think that regardless of what software may be better or easier, you may prosper best by having a little personal instruction. I life in North-Subruban Atlanta, where education opportunities are many and competitive. I get pamphlets in the mail from local Tech Schools, computer stores, Colleges and Universities trying sell me on their "Adult Continuing Education" programs. Many of them offer evening classes in photographic subjects, from both the photography and the digital software perspective. The courses are usually inexpensive and goal oriented. Perhaps there are similar opportunities convenient to your location? Maybe just a little personal instruction with any of the myriad software options is all you need to get that aha experience you need.

Jan

  

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ruleboy Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2011Thu 21-Mar-13 11:28 AM
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#20. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 18


Palm City, US
          

Thanks, Jan, for your thoughtful reply. Keiser University near me has a several week seminar on Capture NX2 which sounds like just the ticket for me. We'll see.

John

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Thu 21-Mar-13 11:21 AM
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#19. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 14


Richmond, US
          

> What do you think of capture NX2? Easy too learn?

I would say that NX2 is probably similar in learning difficulty to Elements, so if you've tried more than one path on Elements, it's probably not any better for you. However, I am probably not the best one to ask. At work I'm considered an extremely technical person, so I may be overlooking factors that are massive to you.

I'm inclined to agree with Jan and suggest some non-book education. Some people just don't learn well out of books.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Tue 19-Mar-13 10:10 PM
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#15. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 12


Kleinburg, CA
          

>Is Lightroom any easier to use?

I don't think LR is much easier to learn than Elements. I am not speaking from personal experience but have heard several times that Picassa is one of the easier photo organizing and editing programs to learn and it’s a free download – no strings attached.

Might be worth a try.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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ruleboy Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2011Wed 20-Mar-13 12:13 AM
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#16. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 15


Palm City, US
          

Do you know anything about Nikon Captue NX2?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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barrywesthead Silver Member Awareded for his continued support of the Nikonians community, freely sharing his expertise, particularly in the areas of digital post processing and printing. Nikonian since 07th Nov 2006Wed 20-Mar-13 01:27 AM
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#17. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 16
Wed 20-Mar-13 01:27 AM by barrywesthead

Kleinburg, CA
          

>Do you know anything about Nikon Captue NX2?

Sorry, I don't, other than from what I'm hearing it has a dubious future. It may not be the best product in which to invest your time.

Barry
http://art2printimages.com

  

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coolmom42 Silver Member Awarded for her enthusiastic support of the community and exemplifying the Nikonian mission “Share, Learn and Inspire” Nikonian since 30th Nov 2011Sun 24-Mar-13 10:48 PM
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#22. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 6
Sun 24-Mar-13 10:51 PM by coolmom42

McEwen, US
          

>I would suggest getting a copy of Lightroom 4 (by Adobe). It
>has almost everything you need to handle making your photos
>truly outstanding, assuming your photos were composed
>properly, and free of any issues like dust etc.
>Unless you need to fix blemishes, take out telephone poles, or
>add objects into your photos... Lightroom 4 will handle your
>needs beautifully.

I agree with this advice.

I downloaded a trial of Photoshop and was completely and totally baffled by it. Someday I will take the time and make the effort to work in it, but not in the near future.

I found Lightroom 4 much much easier to comprehend and understand. The workflow is pretty much laid out in the develop module. I did spend some time with the Adobe tutorials and a couple of reference books. But you can get to the point of using it effectively in a few hours, instead of a few days that (IMHO) would be required for Photoshop.

You can also do (unlike the above poster implied) moderate amounts of blemish removal or object removal in Lightroom. It's not quite as handy for that as Photoshop, from what I understand, but it does work pretty well. You CANNOT do this in Picasa.

I would strongly recommend that if you are anywhere near serious about post-processing your images, you start shooting in RAW format. Picasa can't handle RAW files. Lightroom 4 can.

I started shooting in JPG and using Picasa. It's probably one of the better JPG editors out there. BUT it won't handle RAW files and I very quickly found that's what I need to get the most out of photography.

working on it in Middle TN
Nikon D3100

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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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montigre Registered since 09th Feb 2013Thu 28-Mar-13 01:02 PM
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#23. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 22


US
          

>I agree with this advice.
>
>I found Lightroom 4 much much easier to comprehend and
>understand. The workflow is pretty much laid out in the
>develop module. I did spend some time with the Adobe
>tutorials and a couple of reference books. But you can get to
>the point of using it effectively in a few hours, instead of a
>few days that (IMHO) would be required for Photoshop.
>
>I would strongly recommend that if you are anywhere near
>serious about post-processing your images, you start shooting
>in RAW format. Picasa can't handle RAW files. Lightroom 4
>can.
>

I also fully agree with this post. I downloaded PS about a year ago and was totally baffled by the complexity of it--to the point that I had stopped taking pictures because they were virtually stuck in camera.... Anyway, I recently downloaded the free trial of Lightroom 4 and have been amazed by the simplicity of it as well as its versitility. As a PP tool, it packs quite a punch and can tackle many, if not most, of my PP requirements. I've since purchased the software and could not be a happier camper. I still have a lot to learn to get the most out of it, but I now look forward to the time spent learning instead of dreading it. (I've also started looking into tackling Photoshop again with this newly-found confidence...);-)

I also agree with the idea of either taking a class in photographic post processing at a local community college or tech/art school. Sometimes the face-to-face approach makes transitioning into a new learning experience much less intimidating.

I've only been taking DSLR photos outside of auto mode for a couple of months or so, but the ease of processing Lightroom affords is making my photography experience much more enjoyable. The photos in my gallery, though obviously indicative of my beginner level of experience, were all taken using manual mode and were all tweaked using Lightroom 4.

~Gail

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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ruleboy Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Jun 2011Thu 28-Mar-13 01:20 PM
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#24. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 23


Palm City, US
          

Boy, the posts by both coolmom42 and you Gail were extremely helpful and encouraging. I was almost resigned to going with Picasa but your comment about shooting in RAW convinced me that I need to buckle down and go with LR. And I will find a class to attend to help me in learning.

Thanks so much.

John

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 19-Mar-13 05:07 AM
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#10. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 0


San Jose, US
          

You got lots of opinions here and I would like to give you another. First I believe it should be your goal to make the best image you can in the first place, and if you are satisfied with how your images look than just shoot JPEGs and let the camera do the post processing. This way you get all the tools and adjustments provided by your camera baked right into the image. But as others have said shooting RAW gives you more choice and selection about how to process your image and you need to process it to get a final image. Photoshop is like a Swiss Army knife for people who make a living in the graphics field. It is the industry standard and if you are a professional you would probably use it and know it well. But to know I well takes time and training, either by teaching yourself or having someone teach you. As such the program has many tools that are not necessary for photography, so many people have gravitated to LR which is a fine and powerful program also, just not as powerful as PS. But their are other alternatives. You mention Picasa which is an easy program to use, but again not as powerful as either PS or LR, but if you like doing so use it if it meets your needs. Another choice is Nikon's Capture NX2 which is very easy to use and reads and applies all your camera settings. It also stores your files as NEF which can be reedited at will. I learned on Photoshop starting with CS and spent years perfecting my skills with it. I have CS6 Extended and use it when necessary, but I do most of my editing in Capture NX2, as I get excellent results in less time and only use Photoshop for things Capture cannot do. So in summary, you have a number of choices. You could forget Photoshop and use Picassa with the understanding though easy, you lose a lot of capability. You could switch to LR which is easier to use but still has a learning curve though not as hard to understand as PS but is much more powerful than Picassa. Finally you could go the Nikon Capture NX2 route which is reasonably priced easy to learn and made specifically for processing Nikon camera images. So only you can decide what is best for you. If it were me, I would say you already have the investment in Photoshop, there is a ton of free tutorials on line and many many good books to help you learn how to use it. If you don't want to make that effort then from easy to harder to learn would be Picassa, Capture and then LR. So you might pick up the trial version of what I have mentioned and see which one suits you. Hope this helps.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Devon Weddings Registered since 17th Mar 2013Tue 19-Mar-13 12:08 PM
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#11. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 10


GB
          

Totally agree with getting it right in the camera first.
As for ps : an all singing and dancing program with multiple functions and uses which can be accessed in many different ways. There are also loads of plugins for you to play with. For editing it is king so if you want to add any edit,flavor or tweak to your photos it will serve you well.
Do good photographers have to use ps - no
Do good photographers use ps - yes but then so does everyone else!

  

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noneco Silver Member Nikonian since 12th May 2009Thu 21-Mar-13 05:14 PM
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#21. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 0


Vancouver, CA
          

Don't you just love “yes but also no” answers? I agree with most of the comments above (sorry, more yes and no).

I am not a professional photographer. It is an enjoyable part of my life that I returned to in retirement. In a previous life, my teens to thirties, I spent a lot of time in a darkroom so when I bought my first digital camera and discovered Post Processing it felt like it was a completed circle – a package. If you are saving all of your images as JPG you will need only the very basic software. With JPG files, after 2 or 3 saves their quality degenerates. If you save your camera images as NEF (Nikon RAW) you need a little more complex software. I’m told that every digital image needs a little sharpening.

I found learning PS a chore! I started with Express and moved to CSS-5 when I found out about NIK plugins – reason that I made the effort. CNX2 is not intuitive, was made by NIK for Nikon, and has not been updated for quite some time. In the hands of those that know it’s in’s and out’s marvellous things can happen. The advice on courses is a good idea. To get started with PS I took an on line course from VIU. http://pr.viu.ca/ed2go/course/c.asp?c1=ONPS060 This is the link to their PS CS6 course. They also have a CS5 version. The cost is $209 Canadian and the first week if free. If it doesn’t work for you, get your money back. It got me to the point that I could find my way around the interface - which is not intuitive! PS is an amalgamation of 2 decades of ideas of how things should be done and no idea has ever been dropped so there are usually several ways to do everything. Confusing to learn – no one simple right way, just your favorite way.

Alternately, I tried but did not like Light Room, maybe because I was on my PS learning curve at the time. I have used ACDSee since 1984 when it was only a shareware image viewer. It is much less expensive, easier to learn, and will do almost everything needed with photographs but does not accept plugins. I use it to upload my images from the camera, view, sort, delete, key-word catalogue, and generate simple quick JPGs. It will crop, exposure adjust, color control, etc. and save in almost any format and file size you could ever want. The print function isn’t too bad either, just a little odd at first because it has a lot of options. For more complex editing and to use plugins, I select the image(s) in ACDSee and open it/them in PS using the External Editor command and save my work back into the directory of my choosing as a PS psd file.

All that said, pick the software that does what you need and feels right for you. It is all about making your photography experience fun and rewarding for you.

Enjoy. Cal

  

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gschuler Registered since 06th Mar 2013Thu 28-Mar-13 01:33 PM
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#25. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Photoshop is no easy bear to tame and may have more then most people need. That said it does do the job. Do you need PS? depends on what you want from your pictures, if your a PRO and working in the competitive environment you need the best tools. If your shooting for your personal enjoyment then maybe something less will do. PS Elements etc. has lots of useful stuff, costs less and is easier to use the PS.


  

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paulfree17 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jul 2009Wed 03-Apr-13 08:21 PM
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#26. "RE: Does a good photographer have to use photoshop?"
In response to Reply # 0


Montville, US
          

As an amateur photographer I enjoy what I can do with both my photography in the camera and what I can do using post processing.

Especially as an amateur I find that being able to do certain things in light room and or photoshop can make up for things that I do not get the chance to do in camera. I cannot afford to sit at a location for days waiting for the perfect light. I cannot get a shot of a landmark without tourists in the frame. So the ability to adjust the tonality of a sky or remove some tourist who strayed into my scene is invaluable. I can't afford makeup artists so being able to remove a blemish from a portrait is a way to create a more flattering image.

Technology has always changed the way art is created and is not something new with the advent of digital photography. Artists in the 18th and early 19th century who painted portraits mocked the lack of ability of people who relied on cameras to take a portrait. This is no different then the film photographers criticizing people who use digtal processing. Or people who were spelling experts criticizing people who use spell checkers to edit their writing.

Technology is just an evolution in the tools one uses to accomplish the same goal be it the creation of art, the building of a skyscraper, the practice of medicine or any other skill that involves the use of tools.

Visit My Gallery at Pfotos-By-PFreedman

  

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