I started another thread to specifically compare these two cameras.

From what I have read, the image quality itself is probably similar to identical.

One can notice that the D5000 lacks many of the features that advanced users (be it enthusiasts, advanced amateurs or pros) use and need. Other than lack of AF motor and internal CLS compatibility (one can still use an SB800), the following are control options that are different:

-The extra dial on the D90 (has been mentioned in previous posts.)
-Lack of info LCD screen on top. To many, a very important difference.
-Dedicated buttons. Here is the most fundamental difference. The D90 has a dedicated: Fn button (D5k seems to have it on the timer button), bracket button, DoF button, exposure mode setting button, AF mode setting button, Hi-Lo-remote-timer button. Additionally, the menu buttons on the D90 double as: ISO setting button, WB setting button, and Qual setting button. All of these probably need to be set through menus on the D5000.
-There is a focus point lock on the D90.

In summary, the D5000, as has been said before me, is really an update of the D40 line, and will give fantastic results to those who do not need to control their camera too much.

So, the main difference that sets these two cameras into two distinct categories, in spite of technological similarities, (as far as I can tell at the moment), is the measure of control offered by the camera.

__

It doesn’t get easier, you just go faster. – Greg LeMond

what exactly would you think the tracking feature is? I mean I track when I shoot races and I'm pretty sure I've never seen a camera listed as having that feature (it's in the side-by-side-by-side on DPreview). None of my race pictures have ever been bad so is it a gimmick?

the lcd on top doesn't bother me much, my 60 doesn't have it and I find it much easier to look at the back of the camera anyway. whenever i used my dad's 80 I find myself doing that.

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3-D tracking is available on D300, D700, D3, D3x. The feature ostensibly uses color information from the matrix meter to help AF track the subject. I've read it's uncanny for tracking human-colored objects. For BIFs, with respect to the D300 anyway, I find it "not quite ready for prime time". Unless the subject is moving very, very slowly.

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
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www.tempered-light.com

>For BIFs, with respect to the D300
>anyway, I find it "not quite ready for prime time".
>Unless the subject is moving very, very slowly.

What's a BIF?

— LaDonna

_________________________________
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Birds in Flight i think.

----
jan.
paigejulia.blogspot.com

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That makes sense. Larry loves birds. Thanks!!!

— LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Check. BIF = bird in flight

I shoot a lot of these, along with other non-human colored objects

Larry - a Bay Area Nikonian
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Hope I don't interupt...I was reading through and I saw your ICON-IMAGE ... GOT TO SAY ... " I LIKE IT " Great image!. ,Larry , SW Oregon Bet ya'd like my Creative set on Fkickr.Don't know if it's OK to give it out on Nikonian.

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The DPreview side-by-side-by-side review you mentioned . I think this chart is pretty good and answers some of the comparison questions people are asking.

--Trying something and not succeeding is a lot better than waiting to fail: the realization of a chronic procrastinator.--

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To me the big difference is the lack of a focusing motor.

I loved the small size of the D40 but couldn’t live without the motor, so I got a D90.

They’ve managed to make this bigger that the 40/60 and still lost the motor. To me that is a double loss.

For some the rotating screen will be great, for me it’s a gimmick and I’d prefer the larger higher res screen of the D90.

They've also put the crappy viewfinder in it as well. All in all that's a pretty aggressive price point all that considered.

Different people have different requirements, so on the positive side we’ve now got more choices.

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If they had added CLS in the D5000 I would be all over this camera. I wonder why they don't add this feature in there lower end camera's.

Roberts Imaging has a refurb D90 on sale.....

http://robertsimaging.com/cmCatalog.jsp?cmd=A&typid=3&catid=C144

Paul

"I'd rather try and fail, than fail to try."

>So, the main difference that sets these two cameras into two
>distinct categories, in spite of technological similarities,
>(as far as I can tell at the moment), is the measure of
>control offered by the camera.

In my mind, you've hit the nail 99.9% on the head. How much of the other 0.1% of the difference matters will depend completely on the photographer involved, in terms of their skill, the rest of their kit, and what and where they shoot.

To your list of differences, I'd add the following (all of which, in my mind, affect the ease and amount of control rather than the quality of the pix the camera is capable of producing):

• Viewfinder: The D5000's viewfinder is much smaller, meaning that the magnification is 0.78x instead of 0.94x. That's some pretty little people/trees/airplanes/bees in there to try to see and frame.


• Pentamirror vs. pentaprism: The D5000 has a pentamirror instead of a pentaprism feeding the light to the viewfinder. This means that there is a heck of a lot less light, lighting up an already significantly smaller viewfinder, when you're trying to see what you're doing. The camera sensor might get all the light it needs, but I'd like to see too!


• Battery: The D5000 battery is rated at approximately 510 shots, as opposed to the D90's 850; that's a lot of battery changes.

I look at the D5000 as Nikon's new entry level Digital SLR. The D60 and D40 will be replaced by the D5000. We will certainly see swivel LCD's, in-camera processing, enhanced video options in all the upcoming bodies.

The D90 is more of an intermediate body geared towards a slightly more advanced photographer who appreciates the increased number of button controls, control wheels and in-body lens motor.

Personally if I was getting my first body then I would certainly get the D5000. Owning the D90 has spoiled me and there's no way I'll loose the features I find so essential in my D90.

Bob
D90, Nikon 80-200mm f/2.8 D,Nikon 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6, Nikon 105mm f/2.8 micro, Kenko Pro 1.4x teleconverter, etc...

Hi Bob:

The rumors I heard from a couple of places is that the D4000, the entry level DSLR, might be announced in the near future. Therefore, I do not think that the D5000 will replace both the D40 and D60. Also, there is a third DSLR to be announced this year – either the D400 or D700x – and a couple of two more lenses. I do not have the slightest idea on the lenses, though.

I have the D300 and D700, which are pretty good. However, to each its own and what works for each one of us, is best. A camera is a camera and it is up to the photographer to make the best of it.

Best Regards,

Ramesses

A Nikonian in Kemet

My Blog: Hektors Blog
My Photo Album: Hektors Photos

The D5000's viewfinder is
>much smaller, meaning that the magnification is 0.78x instead
>of 0.94x. That's some pretty little
>people/trees/airplanes/bees in there to try to see and
>frame.
>

>The pentamirror and small image size in the viewfinder would
>be a deal breaker if I were considering buying this camera.

<sarcasm>But it has live view, and a movable LCD screen. Who needs to look through the viewfinder? At last Nikon DSLRs have caught up with the P&S cameras!</sarcasm>

I think that's going to be the main selling point of this camera. Better have plenty of VR lenses available, and I'm sure some will be disappointed at how slow AF is. Many won't notice.

Chris

yes, unless they somehow increased the AF speed in LV mode, it is much slower than the regular AF.
What I usually do when shooting movies, is to AF, then hit the LV, then immediately hit the OK button to start the movie.

I would not recommend counting on the LCD to act like the viewfinder like on a P&S. Unless they made it much faster.

Oh and although I was never on the bash KR wagon, and I think he does a great job reviewing almost everything Nikon, his take on the D5000, calling it a D90 replacement, is kinda wrong, imho. ( http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d5000.htm )
Edit: True, he does say it replaces the D40, still, on the top he called it a D90 replacement...

__

It doesn’t get easier, you just go faster. – Greg LeMond

KR stated in the article it is a replacement for the D40 and an alternative to the D90. Read it twice just to make sure. I'm no big fan of KR, but I do think he got right in this article.

Thanks,
Mark


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Hi Mark:

Ken Rockwell has no credibility with me, anymore. He just jumped on Nikon because of the price of the D3x - $8,000. He then suggested to switch to Leica: M8.2 ($5,000,) Leica M7 – film ($5,500.) In addition, most of the lenses that he reviewed for Leica come to $4,000-$5,000, each. However he did advice us to get used lenses. In other words, we can only aspire to become second-hand Leica citizens. What is he talking about? Sometimes, I feel that he is working for Leica.

At one time, he called the D300: “95%” as good as the D3. However, he does not use it anymore, because the D90 “obsoloted it,” opting to use the D40, for family portraits, instead – it is lighter. I do not think he has a D90. However, can we conclude, since the D300 is or was the 95% of the D3, that he uses the D3, only 5% of the time and the D40, 95% of the time, when shooting Nikon? Obviously, he prefers the $30,000 Leica system (6 lenses + the camera) because the D3x came to $8,000.

Best Regards,

Ramesses

A Nikonian in Kemet

My Blog: Hektors Blog
My Photo Album: Hektors Photos

Ramesses,

He also "obsoleted" the D80 which really blew my mind. I ask myself how can something that is so far advanced from where I started 20+ years ago be obsolete. In my mind, if your camera still functions, and is able to get the job done that you want it to, it cannot be obselete. It may be outdated by newer technology, but that is far from obsolete. I really think he did the Nikon community a disservice when he gave his thumbs down to the D80. It was and still is a fine camera for the casual photographer or even a more advanced photographer. People who don't know any better may have read his article and passed on a great camera because a so called "expert" like KR said it was no longer a viable camera.

I have been shooting seriously for over 25 years and the D80 is more than enough camera for me. In the properly trained hands any light sensitive box has the potential to make a good photograph. I just hope people have enough common sense to understand that guys like KR are just giving their "own" opinions on the equipment they are reviewing. We all have our biases when it comes to camera equipment, just because I or you don't think it is adequate does not mean a thing if it is adequate for the next guy.

Anyway I agree with you, KR is not the end all to beat all, he has his opinions and I have mine. Hopefully a person can look at all the opinions out there and make an informed decision on what does and what does not work for them. Let's not let one man's opinion on a piece of equipment be the only bit of information we use to make a purchase, that for alot of us, will be what we have to use for many years to come.

Although I have never used it, from everything I have heard about the D3x, it seems to be a remarkable piece of equipment. I do know a lot of pros use it and feel it is one of the finest cameras that has been made. People don't plunk down 8 grand for something that is not of superior quality. I would assume that almost everyone who is lucky enough to have that camera did alot of research before making that kind of investment. You do not build a reputation like Nikon's by putting average or sub-par equipment on the market. I have yet to use an SLR with the Nikon name on it that was not quality equipment.


Thanks,
Mark


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Hi Mark:

I fully agree with you. In another thread, I wrote the following:

"Only you know what you can buy. If is the D90, don’t sweat it – it is a great camera without some of the bells and whistles of the D300. There is no shame in that. The only shame is not to get out and do the best with what you have. The camera, which is always being leaped-frogged with newer technology, is only as good as the photographer. I can assure you that a lot of people with the D40 or similar cameras are shooting rings around me with the ones I have. The greatest camera in the world, in the hands of a bad photographer, is a bad camera. The same holds true the other way around."

Since I have both the D300 and D700, I’m enjoying the moment because I realize that I am at the top of the food chain in the prosumer market. I also know, that in 2 to 3 years, I’ll be bottom feeder for the rest of my life . Am I worried? Hell no! I have enough and cannot afford to keep upgrading, regardless of what Ken Rockwell thinks or does not think – he has become a non-person and the last time I’ll be talking about him. I no longer read his site anymore. The only thing is “in-body” VR. If that happens, I might be tempted to upgrade the D700, only. However, it also depends on the file size of the new camera – I’m not going to upgrade computers, either.

Right now, I'm really studying photography - I need to improve. At this time, it is B&W and just got Nik Silver Efex Pro Software. I'm going to enjoy this.

Best Regards,

Ramesses

A Nikonian in Kemet

My Blog: Hektors Blog
My Photo Album: Hektors Photos

Ramesses,

What you quoted from the other thread is 100% right on ++++. The only reason I am even considering getting another camera is I, unlike many others, happen to like the ability to take short video clips. Notice I did not say upgrade, I do not necessarily think an upgrade is in order for me, but I would like the ability to take video. Some say it is a gimmick, for them it may be, for me it is a conveinence that I want. So at this point I have debated on whether to get the D90 or the D5000, now with the refurb. prices around $699, to me, the D90 is the way to go.

Thanks Ramesses, I enjoyed reading your take and input.

Thanks,
Mark


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Hi Mark:

Yes, the D90 is a hell of a camera. I do not think that the movie capture is only a gimmick. When I was raising my kids, I wish that I had that feature in one of the cameras instead of having a camcorder, which I hated (The Sony with the small VHS.) There are some moments that you want to capture forever, especially if you love photography and are walking around with a camera. For example, the following is Nikon’s promo video on the D5000 (select or press on "D-Movie.") I believe that it explains it very well:

http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25452/D5000.html

The only use I would have for it now is to capture my dog Lacey trying to eat a stranger. On second thoughts, I rather not do that.

Best Regards,

Ramesses

A Nikonian in Kemet

My Blog: Hektors Blog
My Photo Album: Hektors Photos

does the D5k have an auto focus on video mode?

No, that seems to be the biggest complaint about the Nikon DSLR video.

Thanks,
Mark


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Proudly Supporting Nikonians

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Not all those who wander are lost.

>Hi Mark:
>
>Ken Rockwell has no credibility with me, anymore. He just
>jumped on Nikon because of the price of the D3x - $8,000. He
>then suggested to switch to Leica: M8.2 ($5,000,) Leica M7 –
>film ($5,500.) In addition, most of the lenses that he
>reviewed for Leica come to $4,000-$5,000, each. However he
>did advice us to get used lenses. In other words, we can only
>aspire to become second-hand Leica citizens. What is he
>talking about? Sometimes, I feel that he is working for
>Leica.
>
>At one time, he called the D300: “95%” as good as the D3.
>However, he does not use it anymore, because the D90
>“obsoloted it,” opting to use the D40, for family portraits,
>instead – it is lighter. I do not think he has a D90.
>However, can we conclude, since the D300 is or was the 95% of
>the D3, that he uses the D3, only 5% of the time and the D40,
>95% of the time, when shooting Nikon? Obviously, he prefers
>the $30,000 Leica system (6 lenses + the camera) because the
>D3x came to $8,000.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>Ramesses
>


I check out Ken Rockwell's reviews quite a bit and found that with his reviews, you have to read between the lines. Most of the time, I believe he writes the article with a particular agenda in mind, so do take the advice with a pinch of salt.

I think I will actually wait until I can see, feel, and compare the d90 vs the d5000 when it hits the local shop.
I've been tempted to dump my d300 for a d90. Not because I have no love for the d300, I just feel that for the difference, and pricing, my photographic style won't suffer if I did. Economics plays a roll in it as well as I can get a d90 plus cash for my d300. But I want to see the differences up close between the d90 and d5000.
One thing I actually liked about my D40 was that it was always thrown in the car or wherever I went. The D300 is babied a little more and doesn't get to go everywhere I do.
The D40 is still a heck of a camera if you nail the composition in camera. I'm thinking the D5000 might be a bit more fun to throw around than even the D40 or the D90.. but I could be wrong.
I don't think anyone will really know until it actually hits the stores and gets used a little.

Mark

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Hi there,
I recently dropped my D80 and if it is irreparable I was considering the D5000. Please forgive my ignorance but I'm just getting into digital SLR photography and I have what might seem like simple questions... I have read that one of the differences b/w the D5000 and the D90 is the internal auto focus motor. What exactly is that? Does that mean there is no auto focus? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Molly

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Visit http://mollyo.shutterfly.com/

Molly, the D5000 can only autofocus with lenses that have their own built in motor. Generally, these are the Nikkor AF-S lenses and the Sigma HSM lenses. There are some others, they're listed in a post at the top of this forum. If you have other AF lenses, the D5000 will not be able to autofocus them.

Chris

Thank you so much. That was a very clear and simple explanation! I appreciate such a quick response!

Thank you again!~,
Molly

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I like the idea of having a swivel LCD; wish my D200 had one. If it did, I'd be taking it away from the "product pic" realm it now lives in and using it in some of the motorcycle events I attend. Right now I only take a point & shoot that has a swivel LCD for low down and pointed up shots of passing bikes and riders. I don't think the swivel LCD screen is a backwards progression at all, but an added feature. It does, however, need to be large enough to capture those wide shots and bright enough to see what you're doing. Glad to see Nikon is going in that direction and as soon as they have an SLR with a swivel screen and can do what the D200 can, I'll have a huge case of NAS!

I'd give in 30 days before I had to send it in to have it re-attached!
That's just me though....the less hangin out there, the less likely I'll break it.

Dave F
Franklin, Pa

"Always do right. You'll gratify some, and astound the rest." Mark Twain

One of the complaints I have heard.. or rather people wanting the D5000 to have included is the commander mode for internal flash.
Is this something that Nikon could do at a later date with a firmware upgrade or is it something internal with the hotshoe and flash?

Mark

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Regardless of whether it could be done, and there would seem to be a lot of firmware functionality to fit in even if the hardware can do it, it's just not going to happen. Like the focus motor, it's one of the things that differentiate the entry-level line of cameras from the next level up.

Chris

See, I happen to really disagree that this camera is more in the D40/60 line than the D/90 line. It mirrors many more D90 features than D40/60 features, and to me personally, the features it lacks are more "fluff" than anything. I mean, they're good features, but ones I truly do not miss at all. The end result of the photos is really the most important thing to me, and unless you're married to that top screen, you'll never miss it. (I used a Canon with one until I got the D5K, and I don't miss it a bit.) For several hundred less dollars, the D5K was a no brainer for me. Lets not forget the features added in the D5K that the D90 does not have! The swivel screen is one of them, and I've already appreciated that greatly.

My one and only gripe is that I wish they'd have put a focus motor in the body, so I could buy cheaper lenses.

This may not be directly related, but I have a D70S that I am thinking of upgrading. Until recently I felt the only upgrade path was the D90, but now that the D5000 is out I am thinking it may be a decent choice.

I am not a professional, just a guy who likes to take pictures now and again. I have been shooting with Nikon's since my first FTn as a kid, so I am familiar and comfortable with them. I tend to use my Sigma 18-200mm OS lens most, though I also have a Sigma 10-20mm and a Nikkor 50mm 1.8D (which I realize I wouldn't be able to use it with autofocus on the D5000). I take a lot of shots on my trips and at family gatherings. Oh, and I already have an SB600.

What are people's opinions? Is the money saved with buying a D5000 worth it, or should I see if I can swing a D90?

Richard M. Poniarski
"Everyone is entitled to the reality of their own choosing..."