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Subject: "new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds" Previous topic | Next topic
phlscot Registered since 15th May 2009Sat 16-May-09 09:31 PM
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"new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"


US
          

I'm new to this forum and to owning a digital Nikon, just got a d5000.

I am struggling with the color settings, and appreciate any pointers to avoid the over saturated reds I am getting.

A couple of examples from this afternoon, slightly overcast; shot with the following settings; I cropped the photo, in which other flowers like blue iris are fine.
The poppies reds blend together with no subtleties.

1/160 f/6.3 iso 200
Exposure Auto
focal length 44.0 mm
lens 18-55mm f/3.5-6.6

max aperture value f/5.3
metering mode pattern
light source cloudy weather
scene capture type Standard

<a href="" target="_blank"><img src="http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/kysks/107crop.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="" target="_blank"><img src="http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/kysks/106crop.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Its my first post, so I hope the photo links work.




  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
Covey22 Moderator
17th May 2009
1
Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
gkaiseril Gold Member
17th May 2009
2
Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
meohman1 Silver Member
18th May 2009
3
Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
phlscot
19th May 2009
4
     Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
phlscot
19th May 2009
5
     Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
Covey22 Moderator
19th May 2009
6
          Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
phlscot
19th May 2009
7
               Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
thosmm
21st May 2009
8
                    Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
blw Moderator
22nd May 2009
9
                         Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
Covey22 Moderator
22nd May 2009
11
Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
blw Moderator
22nd May 2009
10
Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
MstrBones Silver Member
23rd May 2009
12
Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
phlscot
23rd May 2009
13
     Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
MstrBones Silver Member
23rd May 2009
14
          Reply message RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds
Larry E30 Silver Member
23rd Jun 2009
15

Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberSun 17-May-09 01:57 PM
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#1. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

It's also helpful if you can post the actual full photo complete with EXIF information intact so we can see camera and image-processing settings at time of exposure. At first glance, the red channel is probably blown or overexposed. Exposure histograms on the latest model cameras can show you Red-Green-Blue histos which you can use to determine if a particular color channel is blowing out. If that is the case, you can use several steps to compensate:

First, it's notable that in-camera picture settings are exacerbating the problem - I try not to use settings like Vivid - things like saturation are best applied in post-process on the PC. Set your settings to a more neutral preset - while the picture may look "flat" on the LCD, it has plenty of potential to be boosted in post-process.

Secondly, it's an exposure problem. Try applying negative exposure compensation (EV), so dial in about -0.3 to -0.7 for starters. Reshoot and see if the reds are less blown. Also, note the abundance of a *mid-tone* color in the photo; the green background. You can use spot-metering instead of matrix metering. Spot-meter on the green parts, lock the exposure using the AE-L/AF-L button (set to AE-L only of course), recompose and refocus, shoot.

Thirdly and most important, get out of Auto! Auto is killing your control - you've surrendered virtually every setting to the camera's discretion. Go to P - it's close enough to Auto, but lets you override the settings, especially the first point above regarding the picture settings. P is a good compromise, it will strike a balance by giving you sufficient Depth-of-Field without encroaching into shutter speeds that preclude hand-holding.

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Sun 17-May-09 04:12 PM
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#2. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 0


Chicago, US
          

Digital sensors just like film have a sensitivity to specific light lengths. The Nikon sensors are sensitive to the red end of the spectrum. You can use the RGB histogram shot information screen, page 117, to evaluate the image's colors and then you can modify the color curve or picture controls (pages 106-113).

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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meohman1 Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Jan 2007Mon 18-May-09 03:34 AM
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#3. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 18-May-09 04:01 AM by meohman1

Luling, US
          

I own a D80, D90, and a D300. If you have tweaked the settings to Vivid or beyond - you will get hot reds. I have toned my cameras back to compensate for this. I go back and look now at pics I took with the D80 in Vivid + and I can see way more color saturation than I care for.

Ken Rockwell often advises Vivid for Nikon camera setup menus - I have found this to be too saturated - especially in the red channel. I do not think that I am alone in this train of thought. And I shoot ONLY Jpeg Large Fine with minimal post processing.

Mike

Photography by Mike - My Nikonians Gallery

  

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phlscot Registered since 15th May 2009Tue 19-May-09 01:47 AM
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#4. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

thanks very much for all the helpful replies.

Armando,
When I read what you said about shooting in Auto vs Program, I thought hmm I thought I had shot in Program.. how come the notes I copied from the exif showing in Bridge (CS$) show an Auto setting?

I fortunately had not erased the sd card and looking at the data there, seems I did shoot in Program. I don't know why this info differs when I look at it in Bridge.

Mike, I did set the Picture Control to NL or Neutral ( not Vivid )



I took a pic of the camera display of that image info. ( using my old Canon G7 )

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii130/kysks/IMG_0944w.jpg

George, I will try to reshoot the poppies tomorrow, if they are still blooming, and take your advice about exposure compensation and also to look at the histogram.

  

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phlscot Registered since 15th May 2009Tue 19-May-09 01:55 AM
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#5. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 4
Tue 19-May-09 01:57 AM by phlscot

US
          

I read a lot about what camera to select for my first digital slr, and did consider 2nd hand d200, refurb d90 etc.. I am pretty sure I made a good choice with the d5000, as its lighter weight and price were very important factors. And the sensor.

thanks again for your advice.

here's the intact exif for that image
Camera: Nikon D5000
Exposure: 0.006 sec (1/160)
Aperture: f/6.3
Focal Length: 44 mm
Focal Length: 43.6 mm
ISO Speed: 200
Exposure Bias: 0 EV
Flash: No Flash

File Size: 6.1 MB
File Type: JPEG
MIME Type: image/jpeg
Image Width: 4288
Image Height: 2848
Encoding Process: Baseline DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample: 8
Color Components: 3
Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution: 300 dpi
Y-Resolution: 300 dpi
Software: Ver.1.00
Date and Time (Modified): 2009:05:15 16:25:13
White Point: 0.313 0.329
Primary Chromaticities: 0.64 0.33 0.21 0.71 0.15 0.06
YCb Cr Coefficients: 0.299 0.587 0.114
YCbCr Positioning: Co-sited
Exposure Program: Program AE
Date and Time (Original): 2009:05:15 16:25:13
Date and Time (Digitized): 2009:05:15 16:25:13
Compressed Bits Per Pixel: 4
Max Aperture Value: 5.3
Metering Mode: Multi-segment
Light Source: Cloudy
Sub Sec Time: 50
Sub Sec Time Original: 50
Sub Sec Time Digitized: 50
Color Space: Uncalibrated
Sensing Method: One-chip color area
CFAPattern:
Custom Rendered: Normal
Exposure Mode: Auto
White Balance: Manual
Digital Zoom Ratio: 1
Focal Length In35mm Format: 66 mm
Scene Capture Type: Standard
Gain Control: None
Contrast: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Sharpness: Normal
Subject Distance Range: Unknown
Gamma: 2.2
Maker Note Version: 2.10
ISO: 200
Quality: Fine
White Balance: Cloudy
Focus Mode: AF-C
Flash Setting: Normal
White Balance Fine Tune: 0 0
Color Balance1: 1.91796875 1.1875 1 1
Program Shift: 0
Exposure Difference: 0
Flash Exposure Comp: 0
ISOSetting: 200
Image Boundary: 0 0 4288 2848
Flash Exposure Bracket Value: 0.0
Exposure Bracket Value: 0
Crop Hi Speed: Off (4352x2868 cropped to 4352x2868 at pixel 0,0)
Serial Number: 3015246
Color Space: Adobe RGB
VRInfo Version: 0100
Vibration Reduction: On
Active D- Lighting: Unknown (65535)
Picture Control Version: 0100
Picture Control Name: Neutral
Picture Control Base: Neutral
Picture Control Adjust: Default Settings
Picture Control Quick Adjust: n/a
Sharpness: 2
Contrast: Normal
Brightness: Normal
Saturation: Normal
Hue Adjustment: None
Filter Effect: n/a
Toning Effect: n/a
Toning Saturation: n/a
Timezone: -05:00
Daylight Savings: No
Date Display Format: D/M/Y
ISOExpansion: Off
ISO2: 200
ISOExpansion2: Off
Lens Type: G VR
Lens: 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6
Flash Mode: Did Not Fire
Shooting Mode: Single-Frame
Auto Bracket Release: Auto Release
Lens FStops: 5.33
Shot Info Version: 0215
Noise Reduction: Off
WB_ RGGBLevels: 2848 0 0 0
Lens Data Version: 0204
Exit Pupil Position: 93.1 mm
AFAperture: 5.3
Focus Position: 0x66
Focus Distance: 2.24 m
Lens IDNumber: 154
Min Focal Length: 18.3 mm
Max Focal Length: 55.0 mm
Max Aperture At Min Focal: 3.6
Max Aperture At Max Focal: 5.7
MCUVersion: 156
Effective Max Aperture: 5.3
Retouch History: None
Image Data Size: 6348868
Shutter Count: 177
Flash Info Version: 0103
Flash Model: (none)
External Flash Flags: (none)
Flash Commander Mode: Off
Flash Control Mode: Off
Flash Group AControl Mode: Off
Flash Group BControl Mode: Off
Flash Group CControl Mode: Off
Flash Group AExposure Comp: 0
Flash Group BExposure Comp: 0
Flash Group CExposure Comp: 0
Multi Exposure Version: 0100
Multi Exposure Mode: Off
Multi Exposure Shots: 0
Multi Exposure Auto Gain: Off
High ISONoise Reduction: Off
AFInfo2 Version: 0100
AFArea Mode: Auto-area AF
Auto Focus: Unknown (2)
File Info Version: 0100
Directory Number: 100
File Number: 0106
Compression: JPEG (old-style)
XResolution: 300
YResolution: 300
Resolution Unit: inches
Preview Image Start: 10536
Preview Image Length: 22933
YCb Cr Positioning: Co-sited
GPSVersion ID: 2.2.0.0
Compression: JPEG (old-style)

  

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Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberTue 19-May-09 03:13 PM
10623 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

When I read what you said about shooting in Auto vs Program, I thought hmm I thought I had shot in Program.. how come the notes I copied from the exif showing in Bridge (CS$) show an Auto setting?

Not certain. It may be a matter of Adobe Bridge not reading the EXIF correctly or replacing nomenclauture - when Bridge says Auto it means Program.

In either case, EV comp is needed, but I would also try the spot-meter. Note spot-metering isn't an exact exposure setting, you can still apply EV even in spot, because while the color of the object may be *near* mid-tone, there could still be a need to compensate for it being slightly darker or lighter than mid-tone.

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

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phlscot Registered since 15th May 2009Tue 19-May-09 09:36 PM
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#7. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

off topic a little; how long does it generally take ADOBE to update the RAW plugin for new cameras? Am waiting for the D5000 to be added.

  

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thosmm Registered since 12th May 2009Thu 21-May-09 01:58 AM
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#8. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 7


Spring Hill, US
          

Adobe releases Camera RAW drivers 3-4 times per year. The last was released the first part of March.

I asked Adobe when we could expect the new RAW support for Adobe PhotoShop CS4 and Lightroom 2. They told me it would be 'soon', but couldn't give me a firm date yet. I'm taking that to mean June-ish.

As a side note, PhotoShop will get the update first, followed by LightRoom 2 shortly thereafter. Prior versions of PhotoShop and LightRoom won't be updated for new cameras.

Tom

Visit My webpage and gallery..

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Fri 22-May-09 05:09 PM
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#9. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 8


Richmond, US
          

My CS4 just auto-downloaded a new ACR this morning. I'm not sure it has the D5000 support, though.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberFri 22-May-09 05:48 PM
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#11. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

I think it's the Beta ACR, not yet full prod, but Adobe released it because of all the new camera model support.

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Fri 22-May-09 05:11 PM
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#10. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

In addition to the comments above (which are quite accurate), note that with most Nikon DSLRs (surely the ones I use, anyway), it is very easy to blow the red channel even with the default color settings and even if you've got a good exposure. And it doesn't just happen with what looks red, either. For example, I blew the red channel pretty badly with some yellow flowers last week, and it took almost a stop underexposure to avoid the problem. Fortunately this isn't all the time, but it's definitely something to think about in the field.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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MstrBones Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Dec 2005Sat 23-May-09 02:07 PM
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#12. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 0


AW
          

My two cents here.

Try backing the saturation and contrast down to whatever level is minimum for the D5000. The images will look more flat out of the camera, but since you are shooting jpeg right now, you can always stick on a curve and retain the detail in whatever editor you are using.

The red channel here is not blown, it is simply oversaturated.

I cropped and edited the flowers only in NX2 to show as an example.

Hope you don't mind, I'll delete it if you wish.






""

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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phlscot Registered since 15th May 2009Sat 23-May-09 03:28 PM
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#13. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

MstrBones
Thanks! thats the result I want, out of the camera..( I can get it in photoshop.)
No need to delete, I posted in order to learn.

Excuse my denseness.. how do I do this "backing the saturation and contrast down to whatever level is minimum for the D5000"

Other than the picture control set to standard or neutral ( am trying both ), and exposure comp as suggested earlier?

I appreciate the help very much


  

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MstrBones Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Dec 2005Sat 23-May-09 04:07 PM
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#14. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 13


AW
          

>how do I do this "backing the saturation and contrast down to whatever level is minimum for the D5000"

Looking at the D5000 manual, it looks like your choices are limited in controlling this aspect of the image capture. I'd set the camera to "Neutral" for minimum saturation and leave it there. Going to Adobe RGB and RAW would improve the situation, as well.

Also, if you shoot RAW and used Capture NX 2, you will find it is very good at allowing you to recover highlights and selectively control different parts of the image with control points to tweak image appearance for contrast, saturation, etc. You can give it a free 30 day trial.

""

  

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Larry E30 Silver Member Nikonian since 27th May 2009Tue 23-Jun-09 04:19 PM
2273 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#15. "RE: new d5000 user, need help with oversaturated reds"
In response to Reply # 14


US
          

On the subject of over-saturated reds.(I been battling over-saturation...and doing LOTS of testing).Keep in mind - that ALL these modes are FOR us - to use in different situations ... like , at the car show I went to stronger colors,or you my want softer(rounder pixel edges?/or flatter overall...). So... here's ONE of my BEST (custom) modes ; TRY IT AND SEE ! ; (custom =) NL plus 3 on sharpness(because in testing , those shots w/out increased sharpness lacked)(don't forget you can USE that too...and say add soft to it in RETOUCH...)and minus 1 insaturation(I also tryed minus 2 in saturation - but that was unsatisfactry). So try NL+3sharpness-1saturation and get back to me in the morning.!!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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