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Subject: "D7000 or D600?" Previous topic | Next topic
jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Sun 30-Sep-12 07:41 PM
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"D7000 or D600?"


Great Falls, US
          

I know the D600 is a much better buy, but not too sure if it is a better buy for my situation. I own 2 DX style lens, and the rest is for FX. I came across some funds and a friend of mine offered to buy my 3100...which i might consider.

my 3100 lasted me a long while, still has absolutely zero issues, but i figured if i had the chance to sell it at a reasonable price and potentially upgrade, i would have liked the D600, But body only, its about 1000 more. My max budget is 1200 roughly. I already purchased the speedlight and my light stands and such, so this is the only subject left on my to do list.

I need something that can shoot indoors in low light scenarios with little to no noise, i noticed the 7000 can do this quite well at around 1200 ISO, meanwhile the 600 can nearly double this.

would also like to take advantage of the many focal points and in camera HDR, to include bracketing. would also be nice to shoot JPEG and RAW at the same time for when i am traveling. The only thing is, the 7000 doesnt have the WIFI option, but neither does the 600 i believe. also the 7000 doesnt AF while shooting movies, but, the 3100 never did this well to begin with. I do like the view finder on the 7000 as well, but the 600 is better in this category as well. The 600 has a better sensor, but the 7000 isnt too far off.

i can potentially just save some money and purchase the 600 in a few months, roughly 4 months or so. But its almost seeming like the 7000 is a better buy for my situation. I do take a ton of portraits, ceremonies and so on, and i think either or will do just fine. i did shoot with the 7000 before and i was impressed, i have yet to use the 600.

This next purchase is something to where i will use this body for the next 3 years or so at the minimum. If anybody can provide input in this area, even if you suggest a different model from the above, it will be much appreciated.

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Sun 30-Sep-12 10:14 PM
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#1. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

I'm sure you can guess what my advice is...

Don't buy anything until you actually need it. Right now this sounds mostly like NAS. Generally stuff gets cheaper over time. For example, 12mp used to cost $5500 (D2x), now Nikon practically can't give it away.

Don't forget that when you switch to FX, you have a lens realignment associated with that too.

The D7000 can go a lot higher than ISO 1200, and the D600 can almost certainly get to 6400 if not higher. (The D600 is in-range to 6400, but if you shoot it a higher ISO and downsize to what your D3100 has now, I bet it's cleaner.)

The D7000's bracketing is a little constrained. That's one reason I'm not interested in a D600.

You might also consider a D700 or even a D3 - in the same general price as a D600. None of them really have wifi options, but you get a choice of body styles, and all FX can go pretty high ISO.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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Ned_L Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, especially Travel Photography Charter MemberSun 30-Sep-12 10:48 PM
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#2. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 1


Philadelphia, US
          

Jesse, I concur with Brian's thinking completely. I think you've really got to consider your options very carefully and try to stay away from letting NAS drive any of your decisions.

Ned
A Nikonians Team Member

-----------------------------
Visit my Travel Photography Blog and my Galleries.

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Mon 01-Oct-12 12:58 AM
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#3. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 2


Great Falls, US
          

Yea i pretty much knew i was gonna get those answers lol and yes i realize the 7000 can go up to 6400 ISO, what i meant to say i guess, you see little to no noise at 1200 ISO in comparison to the 3100, where you will notice at around 800 or so. Granted with PP you can cancel out most noise, i just noticed the image quality to be much better with less initially.

I shot with a 700 before and yes, its awesome, but its pretty expensive right off the bat. I was just wondering if the 7000 can hang with any of the above mentioned, i saw it ranked below all listed above, but how significantly i am wondering. I eventually dont want to spend the money on something but then noticing for a few hundred more i could have gotten something much better or spend a few hundred less that could have done just as good ig not better so to say.

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 01-Oct-12 01:57 AM
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#4. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 3


Richmond, US
          

> D7000 ... you see little to no noise at 1200 ISO in comparison to the 3100, where you will notice at around 800 or so.

First, there's essentially no difference between ISO 800 and ISO 1200 - that's a bit over half a stop. Said in other terms, that's the difference between 1/60th and 1/100th, given a fixed ISO and aperture. No argument that it's better to have, but is two thirds of a stop worth any kind of tradeup? I seriously doubt it. Taking 800 and 1200 at face value, the additional capability will definitely NOT change your life, or even your shooting style. You'll barely know the change is there.

Second, don't evaluate this at 100% on screen, do it on a print. I'll bore the other mods who've now seen this image in four different threads, but it's appropriate here too.



How would you rate this image? Probably not "unacceptably noisy," I'd guess. Yes, there's noise in it. But this wasn't a D3100 - it was a D2x, which is in calibration only to ISO 800. Ie it doesn't go past 800, at least not without going to Hi-1; the corresponding levels on a D3100 is ISO 3200, two stops further than the D2x. Did I mention that this was not shot at 800, but at Hi-2 (roughly the equivalent of ISO 3200)? Your D3100 already does two stops better than this.

> I shot with a 700 before and yes, its awesome, but its pretty expensive right off the bat.

New it's about the same price as a D800. Used, a D3 is about the same price as a new D800, and the D700 is significantly less expensive. Therefore I'd guess it's a bit more than a D600, but nowhere near $3000.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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Ned_L Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, especially Travel Photography Charter MemberMon 01-Oct-12 02:09 AM
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#5. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 4


Philadelphia, US
          

Jesse, I'm still with Brian. He beat me to it while I was over at another forum.

Brian it's a great photo for illustrative purposes, so I don't tire of it at all.

Ned
A Nikonians Team Member

-----------------------------
Visit my Travel Photography Blog and my Galleries.

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Mon 01-Oct-12 04:50 AM
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#6. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 5
Mon 01-Oct-12 05:00 AM by jesse101

Great Falls, US
          

Agreed thats a really nice shot considering..so with all this info in mind, why do they rate the 3100 a 67 for image quality and the 7000 at 80 and the 600 at 90? What are they referring to exactly? Trying to get a grasp on the differences, which i am greatful for you guys demonstrating the differences, as i dont want to be disappointed when i handle one from another.

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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Ned_L Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, especially Travel Photography Charter MemberMon 01-Oct-12 05:14 AM
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#7. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 6


Philadelphia, US
          

Jesse, can you give us a link to where this is being said?

Ned
A Nikonians Team Member

-----------------------------
Visit my Travel Photography Blog and my Galleries.

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Mon 01-Oct-12 11:53 AM
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#8. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 7


Great Falls, US
          

Here is the link:

http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon_D3100-vs-Nikon_D7000

Then when u compare the 7000 to the D600, its 80 vs 90, and they rateit as "image quality".

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Mon 01-Oct-12 01:26 PM
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#9. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 6


Richmond, US
          

> why do they rate the 3100 a 67 for image quality and the 7000 at 80 and the 600 at 90?

And the D2x is a 50. (Ned- this is DxOmark.)

Jessie- remember this one?


D100, 18-55VR @ 35mm, f/6.3, 1.3 secs, ISO 1600, tripod, self-timer.

The D100 is so old and so obsolete that it doesn't even have a DxOmark rating. I'd guess that it would score around 37 or 38, though. I don't know how DxO uses lenses in their test, but surely the 18-55VR isn't anyone's first choice of high resolution optics, at least if things like the 35/f1.8 AFS or 60/f2.8 AFS Micro are available.

Let's assume that the D100 is 40. Does that mean that the D2x is 25% better? Maybe - surely if one is making a 30x45" print, it must make some real difference. After all the D2x is a 12mp file, the D100 is 6mp. Does it mean that the D600 is almost twice as good as the D2x? Again, if one is making a 40x60" print, probably so, especially if that was shot in dim light, hand held in a heavily detailed environment. If you're making a 11x14" print, the differences are nowhere near as large. If you're "printing" for the web, you'll basically never even see the differences unless ISO is up in the sky. That's because a VERY big file on the web is 1900x1200 = 2mp. Even a D2h (4mp) is throwing away 50% of the pixels to get resized down to web content. A D600 throws away a huge amount even to get down to 11x14". And that's before doing stuff like resizing for print!

The bottom line is that regardless of what those numbers say about the relative quality of the cameras, the absolute number required to achieve a good result is far lower. For example, I did the front cover of a newspaper - the whole page, 14x10 - with the D100. The next year I did the back cover of a real estate magazine - only 8x11.5", but clay-coated paper, etc - from a D2h.

As I related in another thread, I went to an exhibition of great French photography a couple of weeks ago. Some of the prints were from Robert Doisneau, who was given the title the Eye of the Nation. The photography indeed was fine - but I did some pixel peeping, and actually, the image quality of virtually every image was, by today's standards, not up to scratch. Indeed, most of it would be describe as "terrible." And yet, if one didn't look at the grain, if one stood back and looked at the image rather than the silver gelatin, those were really outstanding photographs.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Mon 01-Oct-12 08:48 PM
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#10. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 9


Great Falls, US
          

yep i remember that photo, and for the life of me i do not think i could recreate that image..then again i have yet to utilize a tripod and go at it from there..which i am sure was key lol

yes i get what you are saying..now with this analogy, you are basically saying my images would primarily stay the same (due to my own technique) regardless if i had a D600/7000 or 3100?

now i browsed this website: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Camera-Sensor-Ratings

that dxomark website shows how they tested all the sensors and so on..considering the results posted, i dont see how my 3100 can compare to the 7000 or 600.

i guess for whatever reason i have this vision that my images will come out better with either of those camera bodies, but from what it seems, if done correctly i should be able to obtain any said image with my 3100, depending if i know what i am doing to get it right? Some of those portraits taken with a Canon 5d Mark III or Nikon D4 or D3 and i have seen some awesome shots taken with the new D800..I hate to compare my most recent working group, but the individuals with a more high end camera were able to take better shots much easier, for me i had to manipulate the lighting situations to try and gain the same effect..then again, i guess i shoudl know lighting is almost everything.

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 02-Oct-12 12:51 AM
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#11. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 10


Richmond, US
          

> considering the results posted, i dont see how my 3100 can compare to the 7000 or 600.

Well, this is a hard thing to communicate in the modern environment. Here's the summary:

D800e: 96
D600: 94
D7000: 80
D3100: 67
D2x: 55
D100: less than 50

(The D100 has the same sensor as the D70, combined with earlier, less sophisticated in-camera processing. The D70 has a score of 50.)

Given these scores, I don't see how the D2x or D100 could compare to the others. For that matter, my other camera - a D3 - has a score of 81. For many things, it is far from obvious which camera took a given image, since I often use both the D3 and D2x at the same time. Given the disparity in scores, you'd expect that 55 and 81 would be pretty obviously different - but often they are not.

On the other hand, they ARE different some of the time. If I'm shooting an indoor basketball game in a high school gym (otherwise known as a light dungeon), the D2x is staying in the car, to be used if and ONLY if the D3 fails in some way. There is a BIG difference between ISO 800 and ISO 6400.

Some of the differences are in what amount to maximum print size - and if you make prints big enough to tell the difference, great, you'll see those differences. If you were to try to make a 40x60" print, one from a D2x and one from a D800e, you WILL see a big difference (assuming that you did your job in the capture department). But if you use the same two cameras and make an 11x14" print, there will be small differences, not large ones. Make an 8x10 and you'll see barely any differences. If you make web files, well, nevermind. So how big are the biggest prints you make? The biggest I've made are 24x36", largely because that's the size of my printer. Out of the 144,000+ images I've got in my library, I've made exactly one 30x45, which I sent out.

> Some of those portraits taken with a Canon 5d Mark III or Nikon D4 or D3 and i have seen some awesome shots taken with the new D800

Well sure. Are you sure that the camera is the reason, or the photographer? Not every top photographer has those cameras, but lots of them do. If I did not post these images from the D100 and D2h, what conclusion would you draw about the output of my D3? Similarly, If you see Tiger shooting 62, is it because of his driver (or putter), or because of Tiger? On the other hand, would Tiger be seen competing with anything less than the best?

> the individuals with a more high end camera were able to take better shots much easier

Is that because their gear is better, or because they're more comfortable making the adjustments? The light is the light. You either capture it or you don't. The more advanced cameras don't capture one side of the face differently than the other - they, like your D3100 or my D100, capture what is presented. If you had to manipulate the lighting to get the effect, so did they. If you had to turn up the ISO or get a faster lens, perhaps better gear would have helped.

But you're right, sometimes the gear does make it easier. If I have a top-level professional auto racer (IndyCar, LeMans prototype, Formula One) coming nearly directly at me, I expect the D3 to get the focus right almost every time. On the other hand I know that I'm going to miss half of the frames to out of focus if I shoot the same car on the next lap with the D2x. I also know that I'd miss even more with the D100 - same photographer, and same lens. (In this case, I'm talking about the 400/f2.8 AFS-II, which happens to be the fastest focusing lens I have.) On the other hand - and this is not well understood - this is a pretty extreme case. If I shoot the same car at a somewhat different angle, I can reasonably expect that all of my cameras can get all of the shots in focus, even if handicapped with a slug-slow lens like a 55-200VR or even the Tamron 90/f2.8 Macro.

Similarly, if I'm shooting in a typical French cathedral near dusk, using my Sigma 12-24/f4.5-5.6, I can reasonably expect it to snap into focus pretty much every time with the D3. I could reasonably expect that the D100 would probably hunt several times before locking onto focus, even using the central AF sensor. Note, however, that the differences in AF system are not reflected in those DxOmark ratings!

> i guess for whatever reason i have this vision that my images will come out better with either of those camera bodies, but from what it seems, if done correctly i should be able to obtain any said image with my 3100, depending if i know what i am doing to get it right?

Well, let's put it this way. Lots of great photography was done before the D3100 was launched. The D3100, though, is more capable than, say, the obviously professional-level Nikon F100 of 1998. It has a more sophisticated AF system, it can make bigger prints, its probably faster at most AF operations, it has more sophisticated flash. Maybe it doesn't quite have the same frame rate. I can't match those great photographers even with a D3, and putting a D800e in my hands won't do that job either.

I find the top bodies easier in terms of more and better controls (bracketing, ISO, flash modes, AF-ON, etc), more durable and logical build, MUCH better battery life, and some of the other features are pleasant to have. I do rely on some of the advanced capabilities, such as the AF systems, and I do use ISO 6400 - but as I've been discovering recently, lots of my photography can be done with the little Fuji x10.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Tue 02-Oct-12 01:28 AM
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#12. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 11
Tue 02-Oct-12 01:29 AM by jesse101

Great Falls, US
          

All great points brian, greatly appreciate the help.

now considering your response, and your scenarios as to when you would prefer your D3 over your D100...thing is i dont have anything else, all i have is my 3100. i know in the past it was suggested to own a backup, as it seems all of you have at least one backup for just in case.

I will say when i was asked to shoot a retirement ceremony, i was not allowed to use flash as it was held at the AF museum, so needless to say i gracefully declined the shoot. the individual that ended up shooting the event owned a D3..and it was well equipped with some nice glass needless to say.

with that said, for this type of scenario, and if i was even considering the option, is it even worth looking at the 7000? im guessing if it is very close to the 3100, it more than likely is not worth buying and its best to save up for something more suited? like the 600 for instance? or would that even matter? as i know when i shot in low light conditions with my 3100 for a retirement, the shots taken at 1600 ISO is not something i would consider print quality for such event, then again i am not even sure if any of my photos are print quality lol .

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 02-Oct-12 02:44 AM
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#13. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 12


Richmond, US
          

> backup

If you're doing professional work - meaning that someone is critically depending on your output, whether they pay money for it or not - you need a backup. An example of an unpaid but critical dependence is the classic "oh please take the pictures at our wedding" kind of thing, but might also include publicity for a non-profit, or even the kind of thing that HBB does with the police departments. Even if you have the utmost confidence in the quality of the gear - I don't - things happen. Someone might brush you camera bag off a table, or you could have what happened to me last month: I tripped and fell, right on top of my camera/lens. What did I do? The lens was obviously busted, maybe not the camera. I went back to the car, got the other camera and another lens, and kept on shooting. That's what you need to be able to do in a professional situation.

Even without professional requirements, if you're serious about photography to be spending significant money on opportunities, you need backup. The shoot I mentioned with the fall on top of the camera was a 5-day trip. I probably spent about $1000 by the time hotels, food, tickets, gas, etc added up. If I'd have lost the camera on the first day, that would have been a fairly expensive loss, even only in terms of the trip. As it was, I lost about 10 minutes. (And the camera was fine; the lens needed an - expensive - trip to Nikon.)

> retirement ceremony ... D3 ... well equipped with some nice glass

Was their success due to the D3? Or the glass? Or their capture skills? Or their post processing skills? Or some combination of them? My bet: all of the above.

> i know when i shot in low light conditions with my 3100 for a retirement, the shots taken at 1600 ISO is not something i would consider print quality for such event

I have the sense that you don't print much. If you did, you'd KNOW what is print quality. I'm looking up at a 16x20 I made from a D2h file, and at ISO 1600. Pixel peeping says this is about as far as we should go, but I'm proud to have that print on the wall. I would guess that most Nikonians would be too. (And since that print has been up there for 5+ years, I'm pretty confident that it would be better if I made a new print now, given new software, a new printer - and five years more experience.)

As an example, I had occasion to present a sheaf of prints to some friends over the weekend. They're a Scottish folk band, and I made prints for them from all of their gigs that I've been to over the past 7+ years. Some of those files were made from the D100 - with the 70-300 ED, at ISO 1600. I've been to many of their events over the years, and in fact I have files from D100, D2h, D2x and now D3 and x10. They're ALL print quality at 11x14, with the 12mp files (including the x10) at much larger sizes.

My advice is to make some prints. Go try some ones that are too far - if you don't go over the line, you won't know where it is. You can't do it on screen - the technology of the print heads and inks causes their output to be different, because the inks physically blend and merge on the paper surface. And screens are 75dpi while the printers are 240-300dpi.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Tue 02-Oct-12 04:48 AM
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#14. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 13


Great Falls, US
          

yes, i have been and still am doing professional work per say. granted i am not shooting an event every week, but about once a month i am shooting some type of an event, if it be the AF ball, retirement ceremony, promotions...and so on, they have been basically depending on me as their photographer. I hesitated on getting a backup cause of this very reason, i simply dont know which to get.

At first i wanted to try and replace my 3100, as i figured why stick with this make and model, meanwhile they just came out with the 3200..

I know you have mentioned to try and get something similar to what i already have...but then i am noting you carry the D100 and a D3, both are pretty wide apart from one another.

with that said, as the newer body will be my main camera and my 3100 i guess should be my backup. with this in mind, my budget is prolly down to 1200 for a new body with the funds i have remaining. I did consider the 600, but thats with selling my 3100, but it seems i should not sell it and keep it more so as a backup for just in case.

with my current setup, should i hld out till i have enough for the 600? or should i purchase a used D700, as i really really liked using that camera, it just seemed spot on. but i like buying my gear new, for the "just in case" something happens that was manufacturer defect..but i guess Nikon's warranty is just a year anyway, so i am pondering once again LOL<

I had my mind set on the 7000, but after doing a bit of research, it isnt too far off from the 3100...but then again, it has a lot more features and can be used with just about any lens out there...which also can cut the cost of future lens purchases as well..

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Ned_L Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, especially Travel Photography Charter MemberTue 02-Oct-12 05:20 AM
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#15. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 14


Philadelphia, US
          

Hi Jesse. Let me chime in here about your reply to Brian's post and Brian's post. I'll take them one at a time.

When you're doing work for someone else, back-ups are critical. I was at a lighting workshop with Bryan Peterson. He had to go to his backup D3S within 10 minutes of the start of the workshop, and then to another D3S backup later. He eventually discovered the problem with the first backup. I don't remember what it was, but he had to send the first D3S to Nikon for repair the next day.

I've had a number of times I've had to go to my backup.

If you keep shooting for others then you'll have to work toward having backups for all critical equipment: cameras, lenses, speedlights, etc. It gets expensive, but it's necessary.

I agree with Brian about printing. I'm not at all sure you realize the capability of what you have.

I've been around the photo block a few times. While there's no doubt the camera and lenses account for a great deal of one's capability, I think what can be done in postprocessing can't be overlooked, but even more than that, the skill of the photographer still counts for more than everything else.

You're doing research and that's important, but you also have to think ahead. You've mentioned both the D600 which I believe will prove to be a wonderful camera, and the D700, which has great capability. The D700 is my main backup camera to my D4.

You can't forget, however, that if you jump to an FX based camera you're going to need to build up you lens stable with FX lenses or you're wasting much of your sensor, and right now, you don't list ownership and any FX lenses, so your investment will not be just a camera, but you're going to be looking for at least one lens too if you go the FX route. When I made the changeover myself it wasn't inexpensive considering the glass and generally you can count on FX lenses costing more than DX lenses.

I'm not bringing up the FX/DX consideration to say to you what you should do, but I am bringing it up because this must be factored into your decision.

Ned
A Nikonians Team Member

-----------------------------
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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 02-Oct-12 10:18 AM
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#17. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 15


Richmond, US
          

> When you're doing work for someone else, back-ups are critical.

Just to pile on to what Ned is saying

Back in 1987, I went on a trip up to Montreal to capture the last runs of some 1940s diesel locomotives. The weather was terrible - temperatures below zero F, snow, and a lot of ice. I took an FM2n and an FA - at that time mostly to have both Kodachrome 64 and Tri-X. In a rush, I was changing film in one of them while trying to walk, and I slipped and face-planted right into a snow bank. Result: messy lens, large hole in knee, thumb went through shutter curtain of FM2n, down to one camera.

In 2007 I was shooting a race with a D2h and D100 (my only DLSRs at the time), and the D2h suffered its inevitable meterboard failure. Forty minutes later, this happened:



(they tell me that a D100 doesn't focus fast enough to capture action shots, by the way.) Back then I only used one camera; the D100 was a backup.

People laugh when I mention that I have a backup 500mm lens in the car, but in 2008 I had a screw come loose in my Bigma. The screw was stuck in the zoom helicoid, with the result that it was pretty much stuck at about 200mm. So out of the car came a backup special, the 500/f8 SP mirror lens. Wow, it's a manual focus lens, and this was another race!!! But I got my shots - not the same ones, of course, I really do use AF - but shots nonetheless. That day I wasn't shooting for anyone else, but you can see how that would have gone... Today the main lens is the 400/f2.8 and the Bigma is the backup.

This one didn't happen to me, but... one of my friends was shooting a race in 2009. He was getting from point to point around the track using an ATV. Unfortunately he hit a bump - and his D3/Sigma 120-300/f2.8 flew out of the ATV. Both made expensive trips to repair, but he shot that corner with the D300 and finished the race with the D300 and a backup D2x that was in the truck.

If you look back at this, the equipment was problematic in several of these cases (D2h, Bigma, Peterson's D3s) but non-product issues were more of the problem (dropped camera, fell on the ice, camera out of the ATV), etc. If you need a camera, you need a backup of some sort.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Tue 02-Oct-12 09:51 AM
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#16. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 14


Richmond, US
          

> I know you have mentioned to try and get something similar to what i already have...but then i am noting you carry the D100 and a D3, both are pretty wide apart from one another.

Yes, you're right: I am a confusing case. When I'm on assignment, the D100 does not come along, unless it's the third body. My two cameras are really the D3 and the D2x, and they are quite close in operational terms. Not identical - I really enjoyed having the D2x and D2h, which were essentially identical - but close enough that my fingers can just do the pressing and I can disengage my brain from that part of the process. As it turns out, Nikonians is the only reason I shoot the D100, and it's primarily so that I know what the limits are, so I can explain them here. Since I already own the D2x, and it already has materially greater capability than the D100 (5 fps vs 3 fps, 12 mp vs 6, similar controls, significantly better AF, flash fully compatible with everything else I have, confusingly different shutter lag time), I have no professional reason to use the D100. I shoot the D100 because of threads like this. If I say that a D100 (or D3100) can do the job, but post a file from a D3, nobody would believe me. But if I post a file from a D100, it's hard to argue that a D200 isn't sufficient.

I should also point out that there's a subtle, but large, distinction between a backup and a second body. If you really only shoot with on camera, and you are seeking a backup against disasters, it doesn't much matter what your backup is. Kind of like the spare tyre on your car. If you have to use it, you only need it to limp home or to repair. It's not as if you have to be able to run it at 215mph down the Mulsanne Straight, so one of those comical little donut spares is entirely reasonable. In such a case, a D3100 backup to pretty much any other Nikon is a perfectly viable thing unless, say, you often must depend critically on some screwdriver AF lens - I guess the main examples of that might be an 80-200/f2.8 AFD or 80-400/f5.6 AFD VR.

On the other hand, when I'm shooting most sports events, I literally go into action with two cameras, one on a monopod with a big lens and one on my shoulder with a smaller lens. Depending on the action, either one might be in use within about three seconds. In this case, you really want them to be as close to identical as reasonable. I've done this at a motor race with the D2x and D100 and that was frankly pretty confusing, which I won't repeat unless I have a real reason to do so.

It also helps to consolidate your gear with compatible stuff. I shoot equestrian events, which are typically at a fenced ring. My typical setup is with a 400mm at one end of the ring, with another camera with a wide angle on a remote set on a tripod low to the ground on the short end of the ring near one of the jumps. The D3 and D2x use the same 10-pin remote, so I can choose to put either of them on the remote, say if I want to use a fisheye there (my fisheyes are FX only) or if the ring is a little bigger than usual and I want to use the DX D2x for the 400 to get the jumps. With the D100, I'd have to have a whole separate type of remote system.

_____
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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Tue 02-Oct-12 05:37 PM
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#18. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 16
Tue 02-Oct-12 06:22 PM by jesse101

Great Falls, US
          

Makes sense, so with this analogy, i should go with a D7000 considering my current gear.

now on the flip side, if i wanted to purchase lets say the D700, i would be troubled to use my 3100 as a backup. my gear is pretty much split though...for instance, i own two full frame style lens, i own a 50mm Prime lens and the Tamron 28-75mm, then i own the 18-55mm DX style and 55-300mm DX lens.

I could sell my 55-300mm very easily, but then i would be stuck with the 18-55, AND i would have to sell my 3100 as its no longer a suitable backup to my D700.

so it simply goes back to the D7000...it can shoot a large variety of lenses to include DX and full frame lenses and i can use cheaper lenses that do not have an internal motor as well. However, now with the D600, Nikon did not provide an electronic viewfinder for superimposing cropped DX view, so my DX lenses cannot be used with it, if i am understanding it correctly.

With that being said, what are my other options, isnt the D300 a DX style body? or supports DX lenses? that too is a nice body, but more expensive as well...

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Wed 03-Oct-12 01:17 PM
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#19. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 18


US
          

Hi Jesse,

>now on the flip side, if i wanted to purchase lets say the
>D700, i would be troubled to use my 3100 as a backup. my gear
>is pretty much split though...for instance, i own two full
>frame style lens, i own a 50mm Prime lens and the Tamron
>28-75mm, then i own the 18-55mm DX style and 55-300mm DX lens.

As stated above, it depends on how you plan on using the back-up body.
If it sits in your bag just in case you main body fails, the D3100 is for emergency use only, there is no reason to to worry about your current lenses since you can make due in an emergency.

If you want to shoot two bodies, you can start out using your kit lenses even with flash when permitted to compensate for the slow glass. I often use my D2X and D200 with flash side by side with my D3 series bodies and/or my D700 without flash. I use the flash on the older bodies Not because I don't have fast glass but to allow me to shoot at their native ISO minimizing noise in low light situations.

>I could sell my 55-300mm very easily, but then i would be
>stuck with the 18-55, AND i would have to sell my 3100 as its
>no longer a suitable backup to my D700.

See above.

>so it simply goes back to the D7000...it can shoot a large
>variety of lenses to include DX and full frame lenses and i
>can use cheaper lenses that do not have an internal motor as
>well. However, now with the D600, Nikon did not provide an
>electronic viewfinder for superimposing cropped DX view, so my
>DX lenses cannot be used with it, if i am understanding it
>correctly.

The D600 has DX Crop mode so you can use your DX lenses on it.

>With that being said, what are my other options, isnt the D300
>a DX style body? or supports DX lenses? that too is a nice
>body, but more expensive as well...

Yes, the D300 is a DX body and fully supports All Nikon F mount AF lenses with the exception of two as well as AI and AI modified MF lenses.
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Thu 11-Oct-12 04:16 PM
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#20. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 19


Great Falls, US
          

Thanks for the info. I have decided to save up for the D600 considering it has DX crop mode, so my current glass wont be an issue.

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Wed 24-Oct-12 12:11 PM
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#23. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 20


Garretson, US
          

On a brighter note and not knowing how long you will have to save. Maybe Nikon will have a d7000 or d300 replacement out by then.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Wed 24-Oct-12 12:55 PM
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#24. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 23


Great Falls, US
          

Thats what im thinking..the 600 seems like the choice as of now, also if they come out with a replacement, i need to consider the cost of the 7000 to come down.

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hilleyja Registered since 27th Feb 2008Wed 24-Oct-12 11:13 PM
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#28. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Who told you the D7000 does not autofocus for movie. That is one one the differences between a D90 and a D7000. The D7000 does auto focus for video.

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Wed 24-Oct-12 11:42 PM
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#29. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 28


Great Falls, US
          

Thats my mistake, for some reason i had the impression that it didnt, which it certainly does.

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mikija11 Registered since 22nd Nov 2012Fri 30-Nov-12 12:03 AM
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#30. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 28
Fri 30-Nov-12 12:05 AM by mikija11

CA
          

Yes, its movies look great.

I own D7000 since about three weeks and I find it powerful, relatively easy to use and amazing in low light. The video is excellent(except, maybe the sound), but it's not my primary use. These days D7000 can be found at relatively low price and even the kit with 18-105 mm glass is very good. With some better glasses (don't misunderstand me, the kit glass is sharp and nice), you can probably expect excellent results.

Mike

  

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glennaa11 Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Aug 2004Tue 23-Oct-12 11:29 AM
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#21. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 0


Arlington, US
          

The D7000 is a great camera. It does AF in video. Not sure why you thought it doesn't.

When I am traveling I used to shoot RAW+JPG. But found that took up a lot of storage space for very little return. So now I just shoot RAW.

I'm also not sure I would want in-camera HDR. It might work out to your liking I suppose. But I kind of like having the ability to tailor the images in PP. I have been able to get nice HDRs out of my D7000 with 3 image brackets. More shots doesn't always get you much in terms of the dynamic range of a scene. But I've also gotten very nice HDRs using my V1 as well.

If I was going to FX I think I would save a little more and get a D800.

Glenn
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andiamo236 Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Jun 2007Wed 24-Oct-12 08:11 AM
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#22. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 0


Washington, US
          


I just made a decision to purchase a D800. I am thrilled with the camera and also own a D70 and D300. My final decision to purchase the D800 was after a presentation at our camera (Washington Camera Club, Washington, PA) by Dr. Michael Lustbader who travels to exotic locations and does a lot of macro photography. Quoted: "Buy as many Megapixels as you can afford". He was right. The problem I was having with wildlife was distance from the subject. Using the D300 I was having trouble cropping images and not getting clear/clean shots. The D800 solved this problem being a FX sensor with 36.3 MP.

Andiamo236

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Wed 24-Oct-12 12:59 PM
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#25. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 22


Great Falls, US
          

The 800 does seem like a nice camera, however i have been hearing issues of PP, memory and so on...the 600 has more than enough MP i would think, and its sensor seems to be getting enough praises, so i dont see myself spending even more money to get a 800.

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Wed 24-Oct-12 01:09 PM
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#26. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 25


Garretson, US
          

The d700 was my dream camera forever, I refused to buy a new digital until I could afford it but the wait got the best off me once I saw the 3200. Very glad I have it been a great learning experience. I was always one of the ones who though FX was the cream of the crop but with new technology I see the fx DX thing becoming more of a non issue then it once was, not that fx still doesn't do what it does better. I'm not sure it is as important to me as it once was, that said I still droll over the D800/e. I love the ISO performance and resolution. Still a goal but a flexible one, does that make sense? I digress have fun with your search! I'm paitently waiting, or not so, for next spring to see what Nikkon springs on us, LOL!

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Wed 24-Oct-12 01:16 PM
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#27. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 26


Great Falls, US
          

Lol same here, thats if they spring anything on us! Who knows with Nikon.

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Tue 18-Dec-12 11:31 PM
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#31. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 27


Great Falls, US
          

to provide an update, i ended up saving for the D600, should arrive on the 20th. Im excited to get it and give it a whirl. im sure i will run into some oil spots, but i have been noticing they go away after some use, so i am not too worried about it. Thats even if i notice it. either way i should own a good cleaning kit and keep up on the maint if need be.

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Wed 19-Dec-12 05:08 AM
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#32. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 31


Garretson, US
          

Jesse101 that's great! I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Thu 20-Dec-12 04:59 AM
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#33. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 32


Great Falls, US
          

Thank you John! I will be sure to post my experiences once i get it.

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Fri 21-Dec-12 01:03 AM
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#34. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 33


Great Falls, US
          

Got it in today, my first impression is that it looks almost like the D7000. The way it handles, settings and so on, seem similar.

I am going to compare it to the D700, as that is another body i was able to handle, and i was impressed with its results. I feel as if the D600 is easier to use. I was able to fall right in after i knew what function buttons did what. Moving from my 3100 to the 700 seemed more like unfamiliar grounds, with this body, its still not identical obviously, but it was really easy to catch on. I was able to go to my single servo AF, Aperture and shutter speed were too easy to obtain. My only gripe..and its really not a gripe as i am not always fidgeting with my ISO, but the ISO button being on the face..its nice to see that its at the bottom function button, so it just needs getting use to.

The WB, again, i hardly mess with it as well unless i am shooting JPEG, but its in a weird position...another tid bit.

now for its build quality, i like how the D700 is built in comparison to, thing feels tough, but with the 600, you can feel the little plastic bits here and there. The selector pad on the back is a bit too small for my taste, especially when i am wanting to move my focus points without moving my face away from the camera..but again, needs getting use to.

Image quality...well um, everybody pretty much knows its capabilities already, but damn! impressive! i almost wanted to hug this thing when i just shot off a few at the kid running around the house. It also AF really fast...D700 seemed to be on par.

I only but handled the 700 at a working group, so i didnt really own said make and model, but the main reason why i mentioned it in a comparison, is because i came really close to buying it instead, considering the price difference.

I will see if the D600 is a better buy, so far it seems promising. I also did not notice any spots when doing the test, i also zoomed in on lightroom and pixel peeped and couldnt find anything, my SN is 3009XXX, so it seems to be one of the older models, so i will take note.

if i find any problems i will be sure to post (as i will need help lol). overall im stoked, and i already got a shoot scheduled to put this thing to test. on a side note...coupled to my SB910..its kille.r

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Fri 21-Dec-12 01:12 AM
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#35. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 34


Garretson, US
          

You are killing me! Hey congrats and thanks for the quick tidbits! Merry Christmas! Eh!

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Fri 21-Dec-12 01:35 AM
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#36. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 35


Great Falls, US
          

yes, this was my xmas gift lol merry christmas to you as well John, and thanks.

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http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Fri 21-Dec-12 01:51 AM
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#37. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 36


Garretson, US
          

I am curious, do you do HDR? Will the D600 HDR be limiting for you or do you do the HDR thing in PP, if you even do it? I also understand it has a very tweakae intervalometer, is that the right word, will you be using it? Just curious, everyone has different things they like to fiddle with. Thanks Bertotti

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Fri 21-Dec-12 02:30 AM
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#38. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 37
Fri 21-Dec-12 02:33 AM by jesse101

Great Falls, US
          

i have shot a couple of HDR images, and when i do convert, its in Adobe CS5, never in camera. The D600 does do HDR, but only im JPEG. I have yet to play with this feature, but it might come in hand when shooting landscapes and such..something i will have to look into.

intervalometer? no clue..i will look into it and see what that means and if this camera has it.

I did notice a ton of in camera editing options..something great for the photography that doesnt shoot RAW i guess. On a side note, all of my RAW images imported into lightroom 4.3 with zero issues. HOWEVER...good lord does it take a while for them to transfer! i cant imagine when i have 300+ photos to transfer, i might as well go to starbucks and grab a cup of coffee. This is where i would have like the option of a compact flash..thing seems to load much faster in comparison to? my other 14MP files loaded with ease..300 some odd photos could load within a minute a two. this...ugh..yea lol

then again i have read SD cards are just as fast? i really dont know, but if i can speed up the process a bit, im all ears lol

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http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Fri 21-Dec-12 04:22 AM
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#39. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 38


Garretson, US
          

Use a card reader. Inwas linking my D3200 to the computer but BLW said to try a card reader and it does work faster then tethering. Thanks Bertotti

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Fri 21-Dec-12 05:04 AM
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#40. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 39


Great Falls, US
          

i own a Imac, so i just toss the card into my comp and import right into lightroom. Not too sure if a card reader would be any better than sliding it right into the Imac?

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Fri 21-Dec-12 09:39 AM
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#41. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 40


Garretson, US
          

Your right, I had an iMac but it didn't have a card reader or at least I wasn't aware of one. I use and external card reader with my Mac book pro. But the 24 meg files do take a bit. I try to import every day. No matter how you look at it they are big and if you have a lot it will take awhile.

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Sat 22-Dec-12 10:15 PM
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#42. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 41


Great Falls, US
          

Im digging the new D600! im starting to fall right into it no probs. I really like where all the function buttons rest (minus ISO lol). However, i took some more test shots in different scenarios, i received some unwanted Vignette as seen here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/73141335@N06/8297581167/

I also have been impressed with its ISO, took this shot indoors with little to no light, ISO was just set at 640, but i couldnt tell the difference between 100 and 640, so i was happy with its results:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/73141335@N06/8297599471/

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Sun 23-Dec-12 04:24 AM
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#43. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 42


Garretson, US
          

I would say the wine bottle would look out of place without a little vignetting. The other picture looks great also! With little to no light? Was it all the camera or did you have a really fast lens on as well? Thanks! Bertotti

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Sun 23-Dec-12 04:41 AM
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#44. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 43


Great Falls, US
          

I was using my Tamron lens, the 28-75mm 2.8. It was set at 2.8, 1/160 shutter speed, but my ISO was set at 640. Im confident the image would be the same if i had the kit lens that came with the D600. I might have been at an ISO of 800, but i cant tell the difference between 640 and 800 with the D600.

I agree, some vignette is nice with the wine bottle, however, its too strong in the corners for my taste, i would have applied some vignette in lightroom, but it would have been more spread out and a bit lighter.

Thank you for the compliments, but i would have liked to edit some reflection from her eyes, also framing could have been better as well. the exposure and sharpness im good with, but i do have some getting use to and obviously i need more practice. I feel like im hindering the D600's capabilities..lol

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Sun 23-Dec-12 03:33 PM
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#45. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 44
Sun 23-Dec-12 03:34 PM by John Bertotti

Garretson, US
          

I assumed you would do some tweaki g and these were mostly as is to demonstrate the camera. I might have to eek a couple more years out of my laptop now you got my nas fired up so high!

I really don't see anything wrong with her eyes.

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Sun 23-Dec-12 05:55 PM
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#46. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 45


Great Falls, US
          

you are correct, i did hardly any tweaking, minor cropping and added a bit of contrast and did some spot removal and that was it. for the wine bottle, it was literally a shoot to print image, i did nothing to it. but with my daughter, i did minor adjustments.

I am always my own worst critic, its hard for me to consider anything to be a "keeper". can be good and at times its a bad thing, especially when the wife disagrees with me lol gets controversial lol

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Sun 23-Dec-12 07:24 PM
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#47. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 46


Garretson, US
          

Funny I am just opposite, they are virtually all keepers when my family is involved. They are memories even the blurry dark washed out etc shots. I need to get better at culling the heard.

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Sun 23-Dec-12 07:55 PM
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#48. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 47


Great Falls, US
          

LOL you would get along great with the wife..she holds me up at gun point till she sorts through all the family pics lol

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Sun 23-Dec-12 08:09 PM
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#49. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 48


Garretson, US
          

Lol I use an XDm .45! Lol

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jesse101 Registered since 28th Dec 2011Wed 26-Dec-12 01:49 AM
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#50. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 49


Great Falls, US
          

LOL! Merry Christmas.

My Gallery:

http://jessemartinez.zenfolio.com

  

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John Bertotti Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Jul 2012Wed 26-Dec-12 03:01 AM
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#51. "RE: D7000 or D600?"
In response to Reply # 50


Garretson, US
          

Merry Christmas! Always a blast when you have kids!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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