nikonians

Even though we ARE Nikon lovers,we are NOT affiliated with Nikon Corp. in any way.

| |
Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby GENERAL FORUMS New to Photography (Public) topic #10083
View in linear mode

Subject: "Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?" Previous topic | Next topic
SweetMK Registered since 23rd Jan 2013Thu 07-Feb-13 09:52 PM
65 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"


US
          

Pick up ANY book on using a film SLR, if it is at all complete, there is a section on how to create a double exposure.

On my F3HP, I just pushed a button.

I accidentally created one with a D7000 by firing a flash twice

http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/411788

and realized this is a unique capability that I miss.

Is any DSLR capable of double exposure, or is my only option to continue my leardin' of PS CS6, and stack controlled opacity individual pics?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
iamshunter
07th Feb 2013
1
Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
SweetMK
07th Feb 2013
2
Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas
08th Feb 2013
3
Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
jec6613 Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
5
     Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
16th Feb 2013
7
          Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
jec6613 Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
8
               Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
16th Feb 2013
9
                    Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
coolmom42 Silver Member Awarded for her enthusiastic support of the community and exemplifying the Nikonian mission “Share, Learn and Inspire”
17th Feb 2013
10
                         Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
17th Feb 2013
11
                              Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
jec6613 Silver Member
17th Feb 2013
12
                                   Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
17th Feb 2013
13
                                        Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
jec6613 Silver Member
17th Feb 2013
14
                                             Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills
17th Feb 2013
15
Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
f11 Gold Member
08th Feb 2013
4
Reply message RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?
coolmom42 Silver Member Awarded for her enthusiastic support of the community and exemplifying the Nikonian mission “Share, Learn and Inspire”
16th Feb 2013
6

iamshunter Registered since 24th Aug 2007Thu 07-Feb-13 11:00 PM
8 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

>Pick up ANY book on using a film SLR, if it is at all
>complete, there is a section on how to create a double
>exposure.
>
>On my F3HP, I just pushed a button.
>
>I accidentally created one with a D7000 by firing a flash
>twice
>
>http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showphoto.php/photo/411788
>
>and realized this is a unique capability that I miss.
>
>Is any DSLR capable of double exposure, or is my only option
>to continue my leardin' of PS CS6, and stack controlled
>opacity individual pics?

Check out pages 152-154 of your D7000 manual.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
SweetMK Registered since 23rd Jan 2013Thu 07-Feb-13 11:07 PM
65 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

Thank you, I will try that. I believe I thought that was a bracketing type picture technique when I perused the manual.

The D7000 always amazes me!!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Fri 08-Feb-13 03:18 AM
26951 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#3. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

For completeness, pretty much all bodies that support metering with AI lenses now also support multiple exposure capability. This feature was re-introduced in the D2x and has been in all of the pro bodies since then. In addition the D300 and D7000 have it as well.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
jec6613 Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Feb 2013Sat 16-Feb-13 06:03 AM
727 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 3
Sat 16-Feb-13 06:04 AM by jec6613

Norwalk, US
          

>For completeness, pretty much all bodies that support
>metering with AI lenses now also support multiple exposure
>capability. This feature was re-introduced in the D2x and has
>been in all of the pro bodies since then. In addition the
>D300 and D7000 have it as well.

The D5100 does as well, under Setup Menu, Multiple Exposure. Up to three shots, and it works in NEF as well as JPEG - with a tripod and custom function d4 set, you could use it to do in-camera NEF HDR, something not supported natively.

I'm pretty sure it's on any Expeed 2 or later body, actually, with the possible exception of the D3100.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 16-Feb-13 04:01 PM
29459 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 5


Paignton, UK
          

>The D5100 does as well, under Setup Menu, Multiple Exposure.
>Up to three shots, and it works in NEF as well as JPEG - with
>a tripod and custom function d4 set, you could use it to do
>in-camera NEF HDR, something not supported natively.

Multiple exposuree is cumulative - it doesn't provide an "HDR-type" effect.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
jec6613 Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Feb 2013Sat 16-Feb-13 08:36 PM
727 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 7


Norwalk, US
          

>>The D5100 does as well, under Setup Menu, Multiple
>Exposure.
>>Up to three shots, and it works in NEF as well as JPEG -
>with
>>a tripod and custom function d4 set, you could use it to
>do
>>in-camera NEF HDR, something not supported natively.
>
>Multiple exposuree is cumulative - it doesn't provide an
>"HDR-type" effect.

It can if you pick the correct exposures for the two overlaid pictures - it's an artifact of how it's handled in digital differently than film. I've never used beyond messing around, because the dynamic range at low ISOs is greater than most cameras have in an HDR mode, but it does indeed work: Spot meter, expose for highlights, then expose for shadows, and the NEF will contain a few stops more dynamic range than it did before.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 16-Feb-13 09:28 PM
29459 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 8


Paignton, UK
          

I don't understand that idea, sorry

With multiple exposure, the camera does not take two images and electronically combine or merge them, like it does with an in-camera HDR feature - it just exposes the sensor twice and then saves the resulting image.

If your "highlights" exposure is, say, 1/60th second and the "shadows" exposure is 1/15th, both at the same aperture and ISO, why would the resulting image look any different from a single exposure of 1/12th second?

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
coolmom42 Silver Member Awarded for her enthusiastic support of the community and exemplifying the Nikonian mission “Share, Learn and Inspire” Nikonian since 01st Dec 2011Sun 17-Feb-13 03:31 AM
3144 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 9


McEwen, US
          

>I don't understand that idea, sorry
>
>With multiple exposure, the camera does not take two images
>and electronically combine or merge them, like it does with an
>in-camera HDR feature - it just exposes the sensor twice and
>then saves the resulting image.
>
>If your "highlights" exposure is, say, 1/60th second
>and the "shadows" exposure is 1/15th, both at the
>same aperture and ISO, why would the resulting image look any
>different from a single exposure of 1/12th second?

According to the D3100 reference manual, it does indeed let you overlay any 2 RAW images of your choosing.

I don't think the intent is really to give a HDR function. It's to allow you to do something creative. I can see how a person could create some interesting effects with it.

working on it in Middle TN
Nikon D3100

35 mm 1.8 Nikkor
18-55 mm Nikkor VR
55-200 mm Nikkor VR
55-300 mm Nikkor VR
150-500 mm Sigma OS
Feisol CT3471 & Markins M20 ballhead

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                        
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 17-Feb-13 09:23 AM
29459 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 10


Paignton, UK
          

>I don't think the intent is really to give a HDR function.
>It's to allow you to do something creative.

Yes, I agree that's what the feature is intended for - the example I usually give is to place an image of a full moon into a shot with a featureless sky.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                            
jec6613 Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Feb 2013Sun 17-Feb-13 09:53 AM
727 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 11


Norwalk, US
          

>>I don't think the intent is really to give a HDR
>function.
>>It's to allow you to do something creative.
>
>Yes, I agree that's what the feature is intended for - the
>example I usually give is to place an image of a full moon
>into a shot with a featureless sky.

It's not intended at all for an HDR solution, but it does work as a poor man's version thereof if you don't have it in-camera or your software flow doesn't really allow for it. It means that you have a single NEF with all of the dynamic range, rather than two that you need to combine later - but it requires post processing in either case.

I said you *CAN* I don't know that it's a good idea, but something to play with.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 17-Feb-13 10:26 AM
29459 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 12


Paignton, UK
          

>It means that you have a single NEF with all of the dynamic range

We're maybe getting into too much detail for our New to Photography Forum, but you didn't explain how a double exposure can have greater dynamic range right out of the camera than a single shot of the same subject with the same combined exposure. The sensor will receive exactly the same quantity and distribution of light in each case

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                    
jec6613 Silver Member Nikonian since 12th Feb 2013Sun 17-Feb-13 11:44 AM
727 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 13
Sun 17-Feb-13 11:47 AM by jec6613

Norwalk, US
          

Yeah, it's a bit esoteric, but it comes down to why and how things work inside the image processor. However, first thing: the sensor receives double the light in a normal double exposure (and triple in a triple exposure), actually, because it's not the sensor doing the work, it's the image processor in this case.

If you have a contrasty scene and the matrix meter is showing you a correct exposure of 1/200 (assuming that ISO and aperture are fixed), and spot metering the shadows gives you 1/50 and the highlights are giving you 1/800, two stops in either direction, and then create a double with those two readings.

On film you'd get a horrendous overexposure because of the 1/50 shot, obviously, and this doesn't work.

On digital though, the calculation is pretty cool: the camera takes the value for each photosite, divides it by two and then adds it to half of the value from the other photosite and gives us the mathematical mean of the two sites.

So, for example, using made up numbers to illustrate the math, If a shadow in the scene receives a luminance value of 5 out of 100 on a particular photosite and a highlight photosite receives 95 out of 100 when the scene properly exposed.

When we do the two stop under/over exposure, we get values of 1 and 20 for the shadow, and values of 100 (completely blown) and 23.75 for the highlight. When we combine the images, we get value of 10.5 in the shadow and 62 in the highlight, effectively making the scene less contrasty and leaving you more data to work with later.

This only works with NEF's by the way because they have extra bits anyway; a 14 bit NEF file can register 14 stops of dynamic range at each photosite, well beyond what any sensor can measure. It's less effective on a 12 bit NEF, but it still works. With JPEG, you'll just get a less contrasty scene - think like the difference between Ektar and Portra.

As a side note, this is effectively exactly what the Fuji S5 used to do, except it did it by having alternate photosites being smaller or larger, and in this case it's being done by varying shutter speed, but he end result is the same: adding together two different values from different exposures, one simultaneous and one not.

Did I lose anybody yet? Anyway, you can try it out for yourself on pretty much anything, when you pull up the NEF you'll have more DR to play with. Whether this is useful or not, the answer is probably not very because it's much easier and better to do this all in post from two NEFs, but if you're one of those types who likes things as-shot in camera and is allergic to heavy post processing, or computer time is just not available, it's an option.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                                        
briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sun 17-Feb-13 12:07 PM
29459 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#15. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 14
Sun 17-Feb-13 12:27 PM by briantilley

Paignton, UK
          


>This only works with NEF's by the way because they have extra
>bits anyway; a 14 bit NEF file can register 14 stops of
>dynamic range at each photosite, well beyond what any sensor
>can measure. It's less effective on a 12 bit NEF, but it
>still works.

That is incorrect, I'm afraid.

With the same camera, scene and exposure, a 14-bit NEF and a 12-bit NEF will have pretty much the same dynamic range. What the extra bits give you is a finer gradation of tones, particularly near the extremes.

Check out this article from respected Nikonian Bob Johnson's website for more detail.

I'm going to drop this now, because we are straying away from the original point, and are probably both boring and confusing our readers

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

f11 Gold Member Nikonian since 23rd Feb 2006Fri 08-Feb-13 06:15 AM
828 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 0


Tulsa, US
          

For the D200 it is called an in camera composite.

Jim

My Nikonians Gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

coolmom42 Silver Member Awarded for her enthusiastic support of the community and exemplifying the Nikonian mission “Share, Learn and Inspire” Nikonian since 01st Dec 2011Sat 16-Feb-13 03:44 PM
3144 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Is any DSLR Capable Double Exposure?"
In response to Reply # 0


McEwen, US
          

In the D3100 it is called image overlay. pp 158-159 of the user's guide. The images must be in NEF (RAW) format, not JPG.

working on it in Middle TN
Nikon D3100

35 mm 1.8 Nikkor
18-55 mm Nikkor VR
55-200 mm Nikkor VR
55-300 mm Nikkor VR
150-500 mm Sigma OS
Feisol CT3471 & Markins M20 ballhead

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby GENERAL FORUMS New to Photography (Public) topic #10083 Previous topic | Next topic