nikonians

Even though we ARE Nikon lovers,we are NOT affiliated with Nikon Corp. in any way.

| |
Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) HDR software & hardware (Public) topic #7598
View in linear mode

Subject: "Analogue HDR photos possible?" Previous topic | Next topic
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Tue 12-Feb-13 09:38 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Analogue HDR photos possible?"


Tistrup, DK
          

I like to use slide film, which I scan with a Nikon Coolscan. I have been wondering if it would be possible to make HDR photos based on multiple exposures from scanned slide film?
I don't have any experience at all with HDR, but thought it might be interesting to try it out at some point in time.

My concern is that it will be impossible to scan exactly the same crop of different exposures, and is therefore wondering if it is possible to align the photos afterwards in the HDR software without to much hassle?

If you can recommend a freeware version that you think would be suitable for analogue HDR please feel free to share.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
KenLPhotos Gold Member
13th Feb 2013
1
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
4
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian.
13th Feb 2013
2
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
5
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography
16th Feb 2013
3
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
16th Feb 2013
6
     Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography
19th Feb 2013
7
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
19th Feb 2013
8
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
20th Feb 2013
9
     Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
21st Feb 2013
10
     Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
03rd Mar 2013
13
     Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography
22nd Feb 2013
11
          Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
03rd Mar 2013
14
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
dvbrwn56
02nd Mar 2013
12
Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
03rd Mar 2013
15
     Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
dvbrwn56
03rd Mar 2013
16
          Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
04th Mar 2013
17
               Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
dvbrwn56
04th Mar 2013
18
                    Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
henbo Silver Member
09th Mar 2013
19
                    Reply message RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
11th Mar 2013
20

KenLPhotos Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Jul 2009Wed 13-Feb-13 12:46 PM
1463 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 0


Stewartstown, US
          

It is not probable because there isn't much latitude in slide film. HDR works well in real life because small latitude digital is capturing wide latitude reality over many exposures but slide film has less latitude than print film or digital sensors.

KenL

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



There are many 'images of beautiful objects' but few 'beautiful images of objects'.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Sat 16-Feb-13 03:44 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 1


Tistrup, DK
          

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm aware that slide films generally don’t have as much exposure latitude as print and b/w film, but I find that the colours of slide film are so beautiful, that I thought about to giving it a try.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Wed 13-Feb-13 09:28 PM
11883 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 0


McAllen, US
          

Using film to process into HDR seems overly complicated and I don't see the benefit as opposed to using a digital camera. As you point out you are introducing an added variable (getting the scanner to scan each film element the exact same way) that will possibly cause registry issues when the HDR program tries to line up the images.

If I were to try it I would start with a simple three exposure series 2 stops apart. Shoot the metered exposure then one -2 EV and another one +2 EV. Scan them to TIF format and feed them into your HDR program. Most of popular programs allow a 30 day trial period so you don't have to spend anything on software during the experimentation phase.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Sat 16-Feb-13 03:56 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 2


Tistrup, DK
          

Thank you for your suggestions, Ernesto.

I often only bring my film camera on trips where I intend only to shoot landscape and macro photos. In some of these cases I have found that the contrast of especially the landscape scenes either blocks up the shadows or blow out the high lights. So I have considered using multiple exposures to compensate for the exposure latitude. But on the other hand I don't want too many compromises or spending to much time in post processing, so it’s nice to get input from people with hands on experience with HDR photos.

I think I will give a try with one of the trial versions to see if it is possible without too much hassle.

Thanks again.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography Nikonian since 18th Apr 2006Sat 16-Feb-13 02:40 PM
4468 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 0


Lakeville, US
          

I think it could be done but it would be a lot of work. You would probably have to manually align and crop the images before combining them in HDR.

Larry
http://www.larryandersonphotography.com
http://www.andersonmasterbuilders.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Sat 16-Feb-13 04:01 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 3


Tistrup, DK
          

Hi Larry,

I was especially concerned about the alignment of the scanned photos, as this will be different from using digital shots, which will be aligned by default.

I will give it a try without having too high hopes, and post the result here if it is worth the work included.

Thank you for your input, most appreciated.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography Nikonian since 18th Apr 2006Tue 19-Feb-13 12:31 AM
4468 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 6


Lakeville, US
          

It will be fun to see the results.

Larry
http://www.larryandersonphotography.com
http://www.andersonmasterbuilders.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 19-Feb-13 11:58 AM
13290 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#8. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 0


San Jose, US
          

While latitude may be a problem, I don't think the rest of the issues are a big deal. I use a flatbed scanner for film and always get consistent results. I use Silverfast and it has a mode that does multiple scans that may negate the need for HDR as it combines the multiscans for final output. But excluding that, most HDR programs align the images before processing and you are only adding one more step I.e. Digitizing your images.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Wed 20-Feb-13 10:12 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 8


Tistrup, DK
          

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your encouragement and the information about the alignment possibilities in the HDR programs.

Today I downloaded a trial version of Photomatix Essentials and tried out to make my first HDR.
I had five scanned photos shot with 1 EV between each. Unfortunately during the scanning process I didn't pay enough attention to having the same size of the five photos. So when I tried to load them into Photomatix, I got an error message, saying the files were not the same size and therefore not all the photos could be loaded.

I then rescanned the five photos without doing any cropping. Then I was able to load all five photos (scanned as TIFF files each with a size of 134 MB ) without any problems.

I haven't done any adjustments before saving the result, which I then cropped and resized.

Sorry for the watermark, but this is included because I only have a trial version of the program. But I think this is going to change....



Shooting details:
Nikon F6
Kodak Elitechrome
5 shots (-2EV, -1EV, 0, +1EV, +2EV)
Scanned with Nikon Coolscan (as TIFFs)
HDR processing in Photomatix Essentials
Cropped, resized and converted to jpg in Capture NX2

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 21-Feb-13 03:50 AM
13290 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#10. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 9


San Jose, US
          

Loks good to me, nice and natural. Ive found ahy post processing of scanned slides can really bring out the best of the images. If you get a chance try the trial version of Silverfast for your scanner you will be sursprised at its capabilities.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Sun 03-Mar-13 04:20 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 10


Tistrup, DK
          

Hi Bob,

Thanks a lot. I decided not to process the photos before merging them together in this case, as I wasn't sure if that would give the best result.

I'm very happy about the results I can get from my Coolscan used with Nikon Scan as well. A couple of years ago I found out that I spend less time on scanning the photos, if I do the post processing in other tools than Nikon Scan, so today most of my post processing is done in Capture NX2 instead. I especially like the opportunity to use selective masks in NX2 which isn't available when doing the post processing in Nikon Scan.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
mnbuilder49 Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, especially in Interiors Architecture, Landscape and HDR Photography Nikonian since 18th Apr 2006Fri 22-Feb-13 02:43 AM
4468 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 9


Lakeville, US
          

This images looks good.

Larry
http://www.larryandersonphotography.com
http://www.andersonmasterbuilders.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Sun 03-Mar-13 04:21 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 11


Tistrup, DK
          

Thank you very much, Larry.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dvbrwn56 Registered since 17th Feb 2013Sat 02-Mar-13 12:05 AM
10 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 0


Golden, US
          

I do HDR work with film quite frequently, never 35mm, medium or 4x5, color and black and white. Some might say that the same could be done with NDX filter. I have tried both, even done HDR's using NDX filters where there was enough natural light to make it work. This images was taken with Efke R25 shot at ASA 16. It was in an extremely deep canyon at dusk. I scanned the three negatives with Epson Scan using only basic density slider movement i.e. 0 255 outside limits on sliders. It is important to set up for the shot with the idea in mind that you are not going be able to crop until all other processing is complete. This is important otherwise in my case Photomatix will give up without aligning. I have tried using faster films for HDR work and found that the grain gets to weird with most Plug-ins, and CS5 HDR presets.


Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Sun 03-Mar-13 04:36 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#15. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 12


Tistrup, DK
          

Hi David,

Thanks for your reply and for sharing your HDR example as well.

In my case I also found out, that the alignment of the photos required that the file size should match exactly and then do the cropping afterwards instead.

Doing HDR with 4x5 would be very interesting (and fairly expensive, with the prices of film today ). I have never tried any film in the Efke film range. Are the Adox and Efke the same films just re-branded?

How do you handle the different motion blur in your HDR-shots like in your water fall photo?

Again thanks for sharing your photo and sharing the details how you are doing analogue HDR-photos.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
dvbrwn56 Registered since 17th Feb 2013Sun 03-Mar-13 05:10 PM
10 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#16. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 15


Golden, US
          

The Efke Brand is gone. Adox which is formulaicly the same continues to be available with some improvements. If you haven't tried it I would recommend the CMS 20 it is a microfilm with extremely fine grain capability, I have pulled 200% enlargements from medium format and consistently get 100mp scans without the need to sharpen excessively, thus minimizing software induced noise.
Regarding the water motion. As these exposures were quite slow I really did not have to do much to manage that part of the image. I did have some scanner induced noise that I was able to blur out in Photomatix Pro.

Dave

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Mon 04-Mar-13 07:57 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#17. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 16
Mon 04-Mar-13 07:58 PM by henbo

Tistrup, DK
          

Thanks for your explanation regarding the motion blur in the water.

Last year I shot five rolls of Adox 20 CMS (old formula) in 35mm. My avatar is shot with this film. The absence of grain is remarkable.
I found it to be a quite unforgiving film, as exposure needs to be spot on. My best results were in the studio, where I was able to control the contrast.
I have just bought 6 new rolls in 120 format. I thought I ordered 135, but seems not to be the case. I will use these films in my roll film holder for 4x5. I just need to figure out for which subjects.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
dvbrwn56 Registered since 17th Feb 2013Mon 04-Mar-13 08:23 PM
10 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#18. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 17


Golden, US
          

I understand completely about exposure and control for CMS 20. I would really like to try it as a portrait film but having to shoot so slow makes it a test to be sure. I have used it for architecture and product photos for which it is perfect.

One of my personal favorites, done for Coors Brewing Co.

https://static.squarespace.com/static/50dde7aae4b0395512991ea9/5114f56de4b044f8ed630686/5115c054e4b0b8b2ffe2417b/1360383286346/Golden%20Landmark%20In%20Silver.jpg?format=1500w



Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
henbo Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Oct 2004Sat 09-Mar-13 12:39 PM
1046 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#19. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 18


Tistrup, DK
          

That's a wonderful photo with a beautiful tonal range.

I would also not use the film for close up portrait in the future, but for half body or full length portraits in the studio I think it's a good film. I like the slow speed as it helps me keeping a low depth of field, because of the apertures I end up using.

I can't imagine how the new version of the Adox CMS 20 will perform in 4x5 format.

Henning

My Nikonians gallery:
Landscape | Wildlife | Macro | Portrait | Sport

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Donor Ribbon awarded for his enthusiastic and repeated support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Mon 11-Mar-13 01:04 AM
13290 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#20. "RE: Analogue HDR photos possible?"
In response to Reply # 18


San Jose, US
          

wonderful exposure!

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) HDR software & hardware (Public) topic #7598 Previous topic | Next topic