I photograph a lot of weddings, at this time of year usually 2 a week (Just taken our 100th booking for 2008 between the two photographers here! ) and after receiving my D700 a few weeks ago have now photographed 4 weddings on it.

I've had a few focussing issues during the course of getting to know my new camera. Obviously a photograph that is out of focus is a complete failure, even more worrying if it's not obvious at the time, although thankfully I've picked the problem up by eye on most occasions...

My MB-D10 battery grip's trigger somehow won't focus correctly. It seems to, the camera even beeps its focus confirmation, but the photo isn't actually in focus. It will do this sometimes and work perfectly at other times. Very odd. This happens in any lighting. It got the focus so wrong (Complete blur), so I sent the MB-D10 back and it was replaced, the new one does seem to suffer the same problem, (but it gets closer than it used to!) I'm having to get used to contorting my hand to use the regular shutter release!

• Is this a second faulty one? Or is there a connection issue between the grip and the camera? Or a firmware issue to be ironed out?

Now the SB-800 problem:
Some areas of particular venues, especially the dancing in the evening for example have very, very low light. The SB-800 flash has its red focus illumination light that it uses to focus, but in low light, if that's all the D700 has to go on, the camera thinks it's focused (even beeps it's confirmation) and takes the photo, despite being far from in focus. Sometimes a complete blurry mess. It simply cannot read the SB-800 focus illumination. (The D700 has it's own white 'torch' to assist in focussing, though this doesn't work while the sb-800 flash has its own red focus illumination on.)

With the 'first dance' of the wedding underway and time ticking away, I found myself actually having to focus manually! Until such time when I could try a a few things and I found the answer: Turning the flash's illumination off (Hold 'SEL' until the menu appears and finding the option) that then allows the D700's built in torch to work, and hew presto, focussing is fine again. (The built-in flash also is perfect) But I hate lighting people with a torch while I'm trying to take candid photos!! It kinda makes me stand out!

• Again, is this a D700 issue? I put the same flash over onto my D2x and the problem wasn't there.

I'd like to know if anyone else has found this?
Perhaps if they are my workaround may be useful to them until I find a real answer!

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------

Your problem sounds identical to the one I had with my D200 before I finally figured out what was happening. It turns out the camera strap was wrapping around the camera and hitting the CSM switch and moving it to the manual position. I removed the strap and never had the problem again.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

I am not having a focus problem on my D700.

Check the Exif data:
What focus mode are you in?
Also, check which focus point the camera selected (an option in NX). Is THAT area in focus?

If you set the D700 to automatically select the focus point (mode selector at the big white square) it may not have chosen the subject you had in mind.

MarkF

D800
I still own an F100; do you think film will make a comeback?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I always shoot on Single servo, with a single focus selector.

Cheers for the replies, but I'm confident the C/S/M switch isn't being hit by the strap (Though I'll certainly keep it in mind! Cheers)! I've just held my camera how I normally do, and can't see how the strap even gets near the switch.
I'll keep an eye on it at Saturday's wedding and see if there's anything like that happening

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------

>Cheers for the replies, but I'm confident the C/S/M switch
>isn't being hit by the strap (Though I'll certainly keep it in
>mind! Cheers)! I've just held my camera how I normally do, and
>can't see how the strap even gets near the switch.
>I'll keep an eye on it at Saturday's wedding and see if
>there's anything like that happening

After some analysis, I realized the strap was wrapping around the camera when quickly rotating from horizontal to vertical and back again.

Nikon even redesigned the CSM switch on the D300 to reduce the chance of that happening, but your description of the problem was identical to what happened to me when that was the cause.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

Ben,

If you check the exif data for the shots in question you will have the answer.

Mark

MarkF

D800
I still own an F100; do you think film will make a comeback?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

>If you check the exif data for the shots in question you will
>have the answer.
>
>Mark

I didn't think that the focusing mode was recorded in Exif, but I could easily be wrong. Can you point me to the location of that information?

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

>>If you check the exif data for the shots in question you
>will
>>have the answer.
>>
>>Mark
>
>I didn't think that the focusing mode was recorded in Exif,
>but I could easily be wrong. Can you point me to the location
>of that information?

I found it!

Capture NX under the Camera Settings tab has this data, but I was not able to find it in the regular Exif data using CS3 or Lightroom.

That's a great way for the OP to check to see if his camera was in Manual focus for those OOF shots.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

>My MB-D10 battery grip's trigger somehow won't focus correctly. It seems to, the camera even beeps its focus
>confirmation, but the photo isn't actually in focus. It will do this sometimes and work perfectly at other times. Very odd.
It may not be very odd.
No AF system is 100% accurate 100% of the time.
When you are using an outer focus point they read a single line top to bottom (in landscape mode). This may not be ideal for some subjects, especially portraits with the camera in portrait position.The D700 instructions under "Getting good results with auto focus" explains with some AF targets that the AF does not read well AF can be confirmed even though focus is not accurate.
The likely underlying reason for your focus variability is AF gets it right when it reads the subject well and fails when it cannot read the subject well.
Nikon's work around is manual focus with some types of AF target - and in my experience manual focus often works best with portraits, outer AF sensor, camera in portrait position.
A few minutes practice with a co-operative subject helps learning when AF is likely to be less than good.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

Where you using the sigma 24-70 when this was happening? I bought this lens looking for a full frame alternative to the more expensive Nikkor, and I returned it the very next day because this lens focuses so bad. I bought the Nikon 24-85 f2.8-4 and didn't have the problem again.

Yes, I was using the Sigma 24-70 lens, but the fact is this never happened with the same lens, same flash etc on the D2x
The fact that when the flash is doing the focus assist it struggles, but the camera doing the focus assist it's fine would make me think the flash is at fault, but it worked fine the moment I moved it all over to the D2x.

Makes me think the D700 is what's struggling to understand what info it's getting.

Here's one of the out-of focus images (feels horrible to be showing a photo online that is a failure, rather than showing off a photo I'm proud of!!

http://www.lavenham-photographic.co.uk/ben/focus-fault.jpg

The exif data shows it's taken at ISO 500, 1/30th to allow some interaction of the ambient (disco) lights rather than whiting it all out, and letting the flash freeze the action.

It's done a perfect job of focussing on the background, and would look like a newbie mistake of letting the focus miss the subject, but this was a single-servo, single-sensor focus that I was obviously trying desperately to get it to lock onto the subjects. (Though I can't see anywhere on the exif whether it was Single or Continuous! I just always set it to single) The way I hold my camera I can't see that my strap was moving the lever. (Though I'm gonna keep an eye on it at the next wedding)

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------

Having shot many weddings myself, I feel for you Ben with your focusing problems. I checked your image, and as you said, the focus is way off.

While I am not a D700 user yet, I do have one solution that ALWAYS works for me with my D200, D300 and F100 - focus manually and forget the AF!

I use a Nikkor 28-70 f2.8D AF-S (or Nikkor 12-24 f4) preset at F8 and focus manually no matter what the light. If I do not have even sufficient light to see the subject through the viewfinder, then I guestimate the distance and manually set the lens using the settings on the lens barrel. F8 will assure a good depth of field in the event your focus is a bit off, and it sits right in the lenses sweet zone for best sharpness.

I know this is probably not the info you want to hear after paying big buck for the cam, but I hate it when a cam hunts during critical moments when time is short and you gotta get the photo!

Rely on yourself rather than the cam and you will always get the shot.

Cheers,
Frederic in Montréal

Frederic in Montréal

Nothing ventured... nothing gained!
http://www.RemarkableImages.ca

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Cheers Frederick,

I did actually take to focussing manually at that particular wedding when I noticed the focus trouble. I won't be using manual focus if I can help it, for moving shots like that though, Not that anyway moves too fast in first dances at weddings!) but cheers for the tip. If I ever get into trouble and on-the-stop again in one of those think-quick situations I may do what you suggest.

Like I said I've found a workaround that seems pretty capable of giving me good results, turning the flash's focus illum. off and therefore allowing the camera's focus illum. torch to light up. It's annoying shining a torch in the subject's faces, but to get the results I guess I don't mind!

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------

>I've found a workaround that seems pretty capable
>of giving me good results, turning the flash's focus illum.
>off and therefore allowing the camera's focus illum. torch to
>light up. It's annoying shining a torch in the subject's
>faces, but to get the results I guess I don't mind!

This really is unusual!

I always found in pitch dark conditions that the flash's red focus assist lamp does nearly a perfect job and far better job than the white light on the camera. I wonder if something is wrong with your flash illuminator?

Were you using a bracket? Is it possible the flash body was turned slightly so it wasn't projecting its focus lamp properly?

Do you have a second flash to see if it does the same thing? Or an SC-29 bracket cable? It has a red focus assist lamp just like the one in the flash.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

>It's done a perfect job of focussing on the background, and
>would look like a newbie mistake of letting the focus miss the
>subject, but this was a single-servo, single-sensor focus that
>I was obviously trying desperately to get it to lock onto the
>subjects. (Though I can't see anywhere on the exif whether it
>was Single or Continuous! I just always set it to single)

I guess you already know it, but the focus assist lamp does not come on in AF-C mode. If the light doesn't come on, your camera focus will definitely hunt in dim light and may lock onto the background like it did in this image.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

>Yes, I was using the Sigma 24-70 lens, but the fact is this
>never happened with the same lens, same flash etc on the D2x
> The fact that when the flash is doing the focus assist it
>struggles, but the camera doing the focus assist it's fine
>would make me think the flash is at fault, but it worked fine
>the moment I moved it all over to the D2x.
>
>Makes me think the D700 is what's struggling to understand
>what info it's getting.
>
>Here's one of the out-of focus images (feels horrible to be
>showing a photo online that is a failure, rather than showing
>off a photo I'm proud of!!
>
>http://www.lavenham-photographic.co.uk/ben/focus-fault.jpg
>
>The exif data shows it's taken at ISO 500, 1/30th to allow
>some interaction of the ambient (disco) lights rather than
>whiting it all out, and letting the flash freeze the action.
>
>It's done a perfect job of focussing on the background, and
>would look like a newbie mistake of letting the focus miss the
>subject, but this was a single-servo, single-sensor focus that
>I was obviously trying desperately to get it to lock onto the
>subjects. (Though I can't see anywhere on the exif whether it
>was Single or Continuous! I just always set it to single) The
>way I hold my camera I can't see that my strap was moving the
>lever. (Though I'm gonna keep an eye on it at the next
>wedding)

This is exactly what was happening when I bought this lens. I heard great reviews about this lens but it refused to focus correctly on my D700. Different lenses behave different on different bodies and Sigmas are infamous for this. Remember this is an old lens on new technology and a third party lens on top of that. Try a different lens with the same set up and see what happens. If it works properly, it's the lens which I'm convinced it is.

Yeah, Nikon got back to me with the same idea, the lens not being compatible. I forgot to try my Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR in with the flash illumination, obviously being caught up in getting the wedding covered I didn't have time to experiment with settings!

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------

It's never too late to try the 70-200 at home. You should get the same results. Don't want to be experimenting during a wedding.

I'm coming late to this thread, but there is another possible explanation for the ineffective focusing using the SB-800's AF-assist illuminator.

Page 382 of the D700 manual explains that the illuminator on an attached SB-800 will only work when certain focus points are selected (which points depends on the lens focal length). If you are using one of the other focus points, the illuminator will not operate, causing focusing problems.

If this does prove to be the problem, then using one of the right focus points should solve it, or you could upgrade to the SB-900, which has an illuminator that works with all focus points.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian
Check out the Nikonians Team pages

"or you could upgrade to the SB-900"

Ahhh... more money to lay out! Ka-ching! Ka-ching!

Frederic in Montréal

Nothing ventured... nothing gained!
http://www.RemarkableImages.ca

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Hey Brian that is interesting! I'm pretty confident that I only ever use the central single focus point. I guess there's no way of checking now? Unless maybe I put the file back onto a CF card and checking which point was used on the camera
EDIT - Done that. It shows I did use the central focus point, Single-servo focussing.

I guess I'm not going to get to the bottom of this. May try a colleagues flash this weekend to see if it's the same. (though I don't want to stitch them up with a dodgy one for their wedding!!)

I guess Nikon's official line would be to go buy an SB-900!!

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------

Wow, lots of good inputs here. I'm learning a lot with this thread!

Thanks for including the image. You already know the background is in focus. When you look at the image in View NX, where is the selected focus point? Is it on the subject?

I remember my D200 had trouble locking onto white-on-white subjects. Is this limitation fixed on the D700?

A suggestion on the exposure: due to the excellent low light / high ISO characteristics of the D700, I would boost the ISO and use a faster shutter speed. Perhaps ISO 1600 and 1/100 shutter?

Good discussion!

MarkF

D800
I still own an F100; do you think film will make a comeback?

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

After years of doing this I always find much lower shutter speeds give photos of the dancing with more interesting lighting, I may shoot regular indoors stuff at 1/100th, but prefer to shoot like this for the 1st dance photos, otherwise I tend to get very boring (If well-lit) dancing pics!

Sorry I edited my above post while you were posting. The focus is on the subject, single-point, single servo, so no excuses for finding the background!! For a while I did think I was going mad and had shot on CS after all, but this proves it! We're not talking one photo of course, it happened for ages until I went over to manual and thankfully got enough usable stuff before the first dance ended

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------

I've found several times that I have inadvertendtly flicked the CSM switch on my D200 to M when changing lenses. I now try to check it each time I change a lens. I expect there is the same risk with the D700.


Bridget

Likewise am following this thread with great interest. Having attended a wedding recently I was impressed watching a wedding pro at work - man that is hard work!!! Question for Ben, what is your motivation for single servo as opposed to continuous for situations of this nature?

In my case (D300) I use continuous for moving actors in theatre, so of course I do not get the on-camera torch lighting up (nor am I using flash...). However, I am considering looking for second-shooter work to help out with NAS (D700) and am curious whether continuous-servo (and SB-800) has any feasibility for a first-dance situation?

SteveK
My Nikonians gallery
'A camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.' -- Dorothea Lange

>Likewise am following this thread with great interest.
>Having attended a wedding recently I was impressed watching a
>wedding pro at work - man that is hard work!!! Question for
>Ben, what is your motivation for single servo as opposed to
>continuous for situations of this nature?
>
>In my case (D300) I use continuous for moving actors in
>theatre, so of course I do not get the on-camera torch
>lighting up (nor am I using flash...). However, I am
>considering looking for second-shooter work to help out with
>NAS (D700) and am curious whether continuous-servo (and
>SB-800) has any feasibility for a first-dance situation?

SteveK,

I also have shot weddings for years, and I always use AF-S mode specifically so that the focus assist light on my SC-29 cable will come on on my bracket.

Weddings are often so dim that you can't achieve focus without the focus assist lamp.

Russ
http://russmacdonald.smugmug.com/
http://NikonCLSPracticalGuide.blogspot.com/

SteveK
The only time of day I use AF-C is when they're walking down the aisle towards me, as that's obviously a lot of movement for the focus. No-one moves very fast dancing at weddings, not far enough from the focal point to worry me. If it was some Salsa or something faster I might rethink!! I find AF-S more reliable, I've more faith in it in low light!

| D700 | MB-D10 Grip | SB-800 Speedlight | Nikon 70-200 2.8 VR | Nikon 16mm fisheye | Sigma 17-24mm 2.8 | Sigma 24-70mm 2.8 |
---------------------------Tip: I Set WB to Flash for pretty much everything!---------------------------