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Subject: "OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?" Previous topic | Next topic
jepomat Registered since 18th Nov 2010Sun 05-Dec-10 01:01 PM
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"OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"


CH
          

Dear All,

In their December 2010 issue, Outdoor Photographer give 25 "Pro Tips". The fifth really puzzled me: it recommends "Dialing down exposure by a half-stop to give colors a boost". Indeed, says OP, this "takes the shadows down so those blacks are really black" while the "colors already pumped up now become more alive" and it further "tricks the mind into seeing things as sharper".

What about setting a post-processing black point instead ? What about shooting to the right ? Does OP want us to shoot to the left now ? What about details in shadows ?

What do you guys think ?

  

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robsb Platinum Member
05th Dec 2010
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robsb Platinum Member Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sun 05-Dec-10 07:58 PM
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#1. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


San Jose, US
          

I have not read that issue yet, but I don't understand that advice either, unless you are shooting JPEG and don't expect to do any post processing. With a Nikon camera we also have the ability to set a Picture control or even customize a picture control if we want more saturation in camera without losing shadow detail. And yes we aways have post processing black points and the ability to adjust all the camera controls after the fact if we are using CNX2. So maybe this is better advice for film shooters or Canon shooters?

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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magiclight Registered since 21st Dec 2005Sun 05-Dec-10 11:50 PM
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#2. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 1


SE Michigan, US
          

I agree with Bob, there are myriad options in post to adjust a NEF to get the image you want. JPEG, not as easy a fix.

However, I remember making intentional underexposures when shooting slide film and, much less frequently, color print film.

Let's see, if I want to place the flower bloom in zone VI, I'll need to increase the exposure by...Wait, I forgot! All I have to do with digital is look at the darned histogram and preview! What was I thinking?

Tom

ISO 3200...and be there!


Visit my Nikonians gallery-accidental images.

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 06-Dec-10 12:47 AM
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#3. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


Quad Cities, US
          

This seems to be advice for JEPG shooters who do not want to (or don’t know how to) post process their images.

Dave
Quad Cities, USA
A Nikonians Team Member
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esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Mon 06-Dec-10 02:38 AM
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#4. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


McAllen, US
          

In my opinion this type of advice is not of much value. Okay, so you dial down exposure by 1/2 stop - 1/2 half stop from what?? To me it is better to always remember that whatever your camera exposure meter is pointing at the the meter will give back a reading that will register this area as a mid gray/tone. This of course, does not apply when using matrix metering but when you are using center-weighted or spot metering. If then, you are shooting the bold colors of a sunset you could then turn down the exposure by 1/2 stop and see what happens. In my experience in this scenario it is better to increase exposure by 1/2 to a full stop. Now, if you are shooting fall foliage this might be the right advice but then again I would bracket for safety.

Ernesto Santos

esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography
Now offering fine art print services and ICC printer profiling.
Great service - at a great price!

  

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robsb Platinum Member Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Mon 06-Dec-10 04:00 AM
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#5. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 4


San Jose, US
          

Ernesto what surprises me lately is that the editors of the best photo magazines like Outdoor Photographer and Pop Photo, etc, don't fix advice and other questionable statements by professional authors. In the past year I have seen lots of professional advice that just didn't make much sense with modern cameras, and of course the one that really gets me going is articles that claim your DX camera is going to magically turn your 200 mm lens into a 300 mm lens, although I must admit I am seeing the term Crop Factor show up more.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Mon 06-Dec-10 02:41 PM
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#8. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 5


McAllen, US
          

I agree Bob. That's why I don't subscribe to them anymore. I'll pick them up at the local newsstand and check out the images and the new products and then quickly peruse the articles, but I rarely find anything earth shattering and I do find a few dubious statements now and then.

Ernesto Santos

esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography
Now offering fine art print services and ICC printer profiling.
Great service - at a great price!

  

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mklass Gold Member Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Wed 15-Dec-10 08:26 PM
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#15. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 5


Tacoma, US
          

>Ernesto what surprises me lately is that the editors of the
>best photo magazines like Outdoor Photographer and Pop Photo,
>etc, don't fix advice and other questionable statements by
>professional authors.

Bob,

You made the right point: They are professional authors, not necessarily professional photographers, and good ones at that. It seems to me there are more people in thie field that make money writing and offering seminars, than actually spend time photographing and making money at it. Not that authorship and teaching are not valuable, but they are not the same as demonstrated photographic skill.

Mick
www.mickklassphoto.com

  

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rhyder Basic MemberFri 21-Jan-11 05:39 PM
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#23. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 5


Palatine, IL, US
          

Hi Rob,
This is one my pet peeves also ("the one that really gets me going is articles that claim your DX camera is going to magically turn your 200 mm lens into a 300 mm lens". I teach photography at the college level and I still get students that swear its true. It goes against the laws of physics.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberMon 06-Dec-10 06:07 AM
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#6. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 06-Dec-10 08:27 AM by jrp

San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Surprise, surprise!
It works for me under certain circumstances.
And I am not shy on underexposing by 1/2 an stop.
I go down one and two full stops for certain images.
I'll be back with one recent example as soon as I finish my meeting with the staff in Germany.....

OK. I am back.

Here is the image as exposed by Matrix metering, using a 4-stops Hitech ND Grad (hard edge) at where the clouds begin to rise above the blanket and a 1-stop (soft edge) at about half the frame.
Hurricane Ridge, Olympic National Park, WA, 10th ANPAT.

Notice that the brightest areas cover more than 60% of the frame and the foreground is barely lit by the reflection of the background.
There is no light coming in from behind us since the sun is coming up from behind the mountain at our left.

D700, 85mm f/1.4D IF AF, ISO 200, WB at Cloudy,
f/14, 12 seconds, at 6:30:43 AM



And here is the one I chose to show at the ANPAT gallery, even knowing I should have used the sponge tool a bit on the foreground. The only difference from the first one is exposure:
f/14, 4 seconds, at 6:31:41 AM



As I was posting the two images above it occurred to me to tone-map them in Photomatix Pro V4.0
This is the result with a subtle curves adjustment:



The above means that I should have used 6 to 7-stops ND Grads to make it right, right on the camera; however, heavily underexposing saved the shot.
Important to me since I will hardly ever return there.
This is a nifty trick I learnt from my partner Bo, at ANPAT 7 I believe, (he kept it secret for at least a year!) when our dear Velvia was already gone and we wept over that fact -although just a little because by then we had dived head first into digital.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)

  

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esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Mon 06-Dec-10 02:55 PM
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#9. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 6
Mon 06-Dec-10 02:56 PM by esantos

McAllen, US
          

Boss,

Your image screams for HDR. Even with a truckload of ND Grads or expert masking skills in Photoshop could you really do this incredible scene justice. My comments above about shooting sunsets/sunrises are based on one critical point. You must spot meter at the area of the sky with the boldest color and then open up 1/2 to 1 stop. This will give you the true tone of the colors in the sky. To simply say to stop down by 1/2 stop to improve saturation in a major publication is a little disingenuous, and at the very least just way over simplifying the nuances of exposure, IMHO.

Here is an example of what can be achieved with the technique I am referring to. Spot metered the sky with a 3-stop ND grad over the metered area and then open up 1/2 stop if I recall correctly.


Ernesto Santos

esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography
Now offering fine art print services and ICC printer profiling.
Great service - at a great price!

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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ajdooley Silver Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006Wed 08-Dec-10 12:19 PM
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#11. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 6


Waterloo, US
          

Come on, JR. You didn't just underexpose a 1/2 stop! But really, that kind of advice as well as product recommendations from OP and other alleged photo publications are specious at best. The problem is that so many people just blindly accept this advice. If it published it must be correct, huh? If you want a good laugh, look at Consumer Reports camera recommendations, in which the D700 is noted as being a camera to buy if you can tolerate a little less image quality! "Than what," I ask? In fact, I am so disappointed in their discussions of cameras that I have concluded they probably don't know any more about microwaves, cars or rug shampooers and I am therefore cancelling my subscription to Consumer Reports today.

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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nwcs Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006Mon 06-Dec-10 01:21 PM
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#7. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


Knoxville, US
          

I know people did this with film a lot. I tend to think that it's unnecessary for people to do now, especially if they plan on post processing individual files. However, I can tell you from experience that if you're doing weddings or large numbers of files where you *won't* process everything individually this can still be a useful technique.

The trick as seeing things sharper part of the article is really all about contrast. Increasing contrast increases the perceived sharpness.

The whole expose to the right thing is useful but only on individual files. If you're dealing with 1200+ wedding files I guarantee you won't want to do ETTR.

  

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musical Registered since 12th Feb 2010Wed 08-Dec-10 11:25 AM
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#10. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 7
Wed 08-Dec-10 12:19 PM by musical

north-central, US
          

This thread is about colors and the following is more thinking of EV. I don't have enough skill yet with the histogram and I should by now, but I feel that I do set EV down a little for sunsets, not way down, but a little-- and for stages. I'm a musician.
I think where I failed to spotmeter here and then I realized that the middle section of this picture is far brighter than most of the picture. To my human eyes, just this past Sunday, it looked more like the first picture, the nicer one, but to the camera it might have tried to be closer to the lower picture, I'm not sure. In this example, at bottom, the faces became like ghosts, colors washed out, and the image was not usable. (Ok well, maybe ghosts could be neat.) But what I'm thinking is that I should slightly "pre-process" in my mind, to manage the camera more, or using the camera with its EV and then finish it off later. I'm just learning though. In the top example, EV was down a small bit for the players' faces, then finished in software for the details and colors seen.
I will be looking more at the histogram now in my photography and this list has helped so much.
Picture #1: Ev down a little, -.3, then post-processing the next day to show the wall above more and lights and so on.


The very first attempt below: EV +.67 by mistake, and I could not get closer and had only one small lens with me; I see it is tipped down more. The faces are like ghosts and I failed to catch that at first. The scene confused me. For some reason I had wanted the EV to go up instead of down.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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jhpani Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Feb 2007Thu 09-Dec-10 01:04 PM
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#12. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


Cancun, MX
          

I must disagree with all of you guys.
I find it very satisfying for al the major magazines to continue printing "pro tips" that make no sense...
ok here is my line of thought...
the more people follow those advises, the more people will turn up with less than "quality grade" images, so therefore those of us who can sell an image or someday will try and sell an image, will have more chance and the trade is still safe...

ok. now following my sarcastic ramblings...

let´s face the fact that whenever a magazine makes no sense, it means we are already in a different level of expertise and thus we have to start looking for more "mind and technique demanding" publications..

this is not to say that we should not take a look at these mags, they sometimes have interesting information and we, specially myself, believe that we constantly are learning something new.

shouldn´t this mean that we are "obligated" to tell those magazines about their mistakes? would it be possible that after some pressure, they may start printing articles that are more defined as to whom they may help and under what circumstances??


ok i will stop this is going too long..

please take these as my 2 cents...

Humberto´s, proud nikonian in Cancun, Mexico

"The important thing is never to stop questioning."~Albert Einstein

"Do, or do not. There is no 'try'."~Yoda

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Baaker Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Aug 2009Fri 10-Dec-10 09:32 AM
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#13. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 12


Dumbarton, GB
          

The advice - imo - has some merits. Not all photographers use or know how to use Photoshop or similar programs. I didn't see or read the original article so it is possible it has been read out of context. Technically it isn't bad advice in respect to noise because very little extra will be produced especially at base iso. Initially the images will look more contrasty and therefore more colour will be seen. Saturation is boosted by more contrast. Of course this can be done post process which I favour. This advice ISN'T a mistake but a matter of opinion?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43019448@N04/

  

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hwdx347 Silver Member Charter MemberWed 15-Dec-10 07:02 PM
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#14. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


Maumelle, US
          

Used to do that with slide film but never with digital. Why would you when digital gives you complete control in PP?

Hedley
Originally from Merthyr Tydfil, Wales -- now in Arkansas

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Baaker Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Aug 2009Thu 16-Dec-10 08:31 AM
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#16. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 14


Dumbarton, GB
          

Underexposing prevents highlight blow outs as well as boosting saturation. In fast moving type of photography you sometimes have to underexpose because exposing for the highlights isn't possible.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43019448@N04/

  

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musical Registered since 12th Feb 2010Thu 16-Dec-10 01:17 PM
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#17. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 16


north-central, US
          

from above:
>Underexposing prevents highlight blow outs as well as
>boosting saturation. In fast moving type of photography you
>sometimes have to underexpose because exposing for the
>highlights isn't possible.
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/43019448@N04/

What a gallery!! That is to the gentle person above, post #15, I think.
.....
My own muse today:
to forget "colors"-- how about tones
I am experimenting with what this thread describes; I am doing EV minus two clicks, in the midst of overhauling my approach (my mind.)
The following will be more to the mind rather than the camera or lens.
I think I had this vague idea of the zone system and shooting the middle. Well, all that sounds good, but I kept over blowing my highlights. A single light could be ok but I have sides of faces or 1/4th of the sky overblown. I think it because I shoot into light all the time. Merely getting more color in PP is easy, but recovering highlights is impossible. That is this week's lesson for me. All this is from a hobbiest (myself.) I am not geared to do any professional work, nor do I have the time to travel. I shouldn't digress.
This one below is typical of me; "into the light," always find the light and shoot into it. I am ready for some change of mind artistically; one can sense it.

I plan to rework my approach.
I must be suggesting that to underexpose may depend on style-- where the lighting comes from.
fx, iso 2200; no ev bias, however typical of my minds eye. The back is very bright and does compete.


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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mklass Gold Member Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Thu 16-Dec-10 01:44 PM
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#18. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 17


Tacoma, US
          

Frankly, I think the above photo is a nice study.

I think we tend to get over concerned with highlights being distracting in images. I've seen people obsess over this when it is, essentially, part of the scene. Huge, totally blown out areas may be one thing, but light areas can frame and provide contrast to subjects. After all, that is what High Key is all about. It really is an artistic choice, and
certainly not an absolute no-no. In then end, I am usually drawn to the sharpest object closest to the foreground.

Mick
www.mickklassphoto.com

  

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musical Registered since 12th Feb 2010Thu 16-Dec-10 06:32 PM
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#19. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 18


north-central, US
          

Thanks Mick,
Here is bias in POST processing, after the fact. I tried to reverse the lighting and make the foreground lighter. There are limits, though.
Maybe the difference is subtle, but I didn't try in either image to do what I "wanted," in fact artistically I was not going to keep this one. I don't care for the exact look for the 2nd image, below. I wish to think more during the phase where I decide to record something or to capture an image... What really am I seeing that I want to remember.
I think though that the origin of this thread is to think and process something at the capture stage, like capturing just slightly dark.
As said, thanks Mick for your kind word on things.
Oh, I almost forgot, boosting colors works better with things than humans' skin. In version one, her cheek is too red. She felt fine, my younger daughter, but looked feverish in that photo. It is because it is so cold outside, and we heat with wood so the air is dry inside.

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dclarhorn Moderator In depth knowledge and high level skills in a variety of areas including landscape Nikonian since 31st Mar 2002Thu 16-Dec-10 10:40 PM
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#20. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


Berwyn Heights, US
          

There are times I like the underexpose a bit (sunsets, holding highlights in some shots). I post-process all my images but I do like to get close to the image I visualize in the camera first. The only problem I have with this advice or other advice in the magazines is that they tend to generalize when the truth and use are in the specific situations. Luckily, I recognize this but I can see where it would be misleading to those less experienced.

Anyway, the important thing is that I'm happy with my results, as are my clients.

Dan L.
http://www.danlarussophotography.com/

  

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Staylorist Silver Member Nikonian since 28th Aug 2009Wed 19-Jan-11 09:23 AM
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#21. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 20


US
          

I watched a video of Joe McNally shooting some stuff and playing with CLS in which he muttered something about usually underexposing his shots to increase saturation.

I have tried it a few times and I have liked the result if it works. I have been playing around with overexposing a little the majority of the time while shooting people. I feel it makes their skin look nice and fits the mood I have been going for a lot recently.

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gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Wed 19-Jan-11 05:07 PM
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#22. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 21
Wed 19-Jan-11 05:12 PM by gkaiseril

Chicago, US
          

Under exposing the ambient light exposure of the total exposure brings out the subject lighted by the Speedlights since this proton of the exposure receives the computed and non-decreased illumination. Note that all CLS exposures consist of the ambient lighting exposure and the Speedlight exposure. Each component is computed separately from each other and the exposure compensation can be applied to each individually. The ambient exposure is adjusted using the EV control while the flash exposure is adjusted using the FV control. This is like TTL-BL or used with TTL-BL to emphasize the back lighted subject by reducing the ambient light exposure.

Some landscape photographers under expose by 1/2 to 1 f stop but they may also take 2 images, one with the standard exposure and one with 1/2 - 1 f-stop under the first exposure.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

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rhyder Basic MemberFri 21-Jan-11 05:47 PM
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#24. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 0


Palatine, IL, US
          

Sorry guys...the author is right, underexposing ( a little (1/2 stop)) will boost the colors a bit. I used to do this all the time with slide film. It worked best with slide film, but that might be due to not doing my own color printing as the printer may have adjusted it out. It works with digital, BUT I would much rather do this in PP. I've got a method in LR that works great. I also quit "exposing to the right" about 4 years ago.

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chiefmasterjedi Silver Member Nikonian since 26th Feb 2009Sat 22-Jan-11 06:13 AM
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#25. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 24


US
          

I'm more happy underexposing my landscape shots and especially the sunsets. I find it much easier to add some brightness and/or fill using Lightroom than trying to recover the highlights.

Just my $0.02

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ajdooley Silver Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006Sat 22-Jan-11 08:37 PM
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#26. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 25
Sat 22-Jan-11 08:43 PM by ajdooley

Waterloo, US
          

It has been fascinating to watch this thread. I'll go back to my early days in photography. I have beenn there a couple of times this year, reviewing the past. Kodachrome slide film had an ASA (a measure of film sensitivity standing for the American Standards Association, when ISO was more of a Eurpoean measurement) of 10! Ektachrome had an ASA of 32. Remember, transparency film was developed in two basic steps. First a negative image was developed -- what we shot. It was then discarded chemically and what remained was reexposed, eiher physically by exposing the partially processed film to a bright light or chemically. That remaining image was then developed. The positive, or slide, was what remained after the negative image was developed and discarded. I know -- Kodachrome was a much more complex process consisting of 14 steps, including dies that were chemically placed in separate layers. We didn't do this in the sink at home! Any overexposure at all, especially with Kodachrome, reulted in washed out highlights. Kodachrome had a latitude of about 1/2 stop! Many photographers underexposed, at least a little, when using color transparency film, to prevent blown out highlights and to make colors deeper and richer. There's no need to do that today. PP -- be it Photoshop or more easily, Nikon Capture NX2, can modify exposure -- or the resulting brightness or darkness, even contrast and saturation -- in various areas of the image, especially if it is shot in RAW. In many ways, jpegs are like transparencies, excee they can be modified for brightness, contrast, etc., in PP, only not as much as RAW exposures. The best advice is to expose to get a proper histogram. That's the digital analog of the old properly exposed negative, with a full range of tones. So I see little reason to purposely underexpose. What we are doing in many cases is simply exposing for the part of the scene we want to be CORRECTLY exposed. Meters essentially try to render whatever they aer reading -- the full frame, a center-weighted area or a very small area, as 18% grey in intensity. If that's NOT what the most important part of your scene is, then you need to tell the meter, "No, that's supposed to be a darker or lighter part of the image -- and I want it recorded and rendered in THAT manner. You "over expose" to make it lighter or "under expose" to make it darker. This is why I am disinclined to follow blanket instructions -- to underxpose to make colors richer. There are too many moving parts in the world AND our cameras to accept that as a "stake in the ground." Your Nikon Matrix meters have sample scenes in their memory to try to interpret this for you. That's my old guy's 2 cents worth.

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

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rhyder Basic MemberSat 22-Jan-11 09:22 PM
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#27. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 26


Palatine, IL, US
          

I totaly agree with "The best advice is to expose to get a proper histogram". This gives me the most options when processing.

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ajdooley Silver Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006Sat 22-Jan-11 11:53 PM
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#28. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 27


Waterloo, US
          

Of course, I should have added, a proper histogram is not necessarily a nice bell-shaped curve. Rather, it is a graphic representation of the subject. Very definitely, histograms of high and low-key scenes will look entirely different. Histograms are yet another often misunderstood subject.

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

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GilesW Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Nov 2010Sun 23-Jan-11 12:49 AM
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#29. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 26


Edinburgh, GB
          

I agree in general re exposing for the histogram. However for sunsets, and more so for twilight or moonlight, exposing for a "correct" histogram can produce totally unrealistic results that look overexposed or even like daylight, so that if a realistic result is required the exposure may have to be reduced by several stops either when taking the photo or in PP. In other words the histogram needs to be interpreted with understanding in low light conditions.

Has anyone mentioned in this thread the importance of bracketing exposures in difficult light conditions or if in a hurry? Comparing pix and histograms after the shoot is helpful.

FWIW I remember that (in the i970s at least) Nikons' built-in exposure meters were said to be set up to underexpose by 1/2 stop. In this way Nikon cameras gave more saturated colour slides, making them look better in A-B comparisons with other camera makes when slides exposed in accordance with the cameras' meters were compared side by side!
When exposing negative film, the photographer was advised to bias metering for the shadows, and letting the negative's latitude and printing take care of the highlights. This would have taken care of the half stop underexposure.

Remember that compared with earlier DSLRs the D700 has much more sophisticated systems, e.g. programmed matrix metering, wider sensor dynamic range, in-camera D-lighting (which underexposes highlights), bigger and better display, and 14 bit NEFs. Together these give much more exposure latitude, providing higher quality raw files which make it easier to get superb results with post processing. Thus, as others have pointed out, the simple rule of thumb (Underexpose to Boost Colors) is helpful especially to beginners taking JPEGs, even if not for the expertly handled D700 with sophisticated PP software and time to use it.

Any comments?
Regards Giles

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ajdooley Silver Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006Sun 23-Jan-11 09:14 AM
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#30. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 29
Sun 23-Jan-11 09:17 AM by ajdooley

Waterloo, US
          

Dear Giles - Bracketing, in the end, is probably a good solution, especially for jpegs. Jpegs are a partial solution and if you're satisfied with what you get from them, by all means, bracket, underexpose 1/2 stop, whatever. I have simply been trying to describe why simple answers are neither: simple nor answers. Unless we are going to use our expensive, very capable equipment as point and shoot cameras though, it is incumbent on us to try to understand what we are doing and why it is or is not working. Too often we see the words of what have been termed professional authors -- not photographers -- who offer up simple answers to complex lighting challenges. In fact, the beautiful scenes by JRP earlier in this thread, of the mountains and sunrise are not even possible without graduated filters and merging exposures with software. I will stand by my statement: under exposing 1/2 stop is NOT a solution to providing better color. It is not a solution to anything. I don't mean to sound complicated, only to encourage people to better understand what some incredibly smart engineers have developed -- our Nikons -- and how they can best use them for best results. Half-stop underexposures are no more solutions to good color than shooting everything at f8 would be to focus or sharpness.

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

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rhyder Basic MemberSun 23-Jan-11 09:15 AM
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#31. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 29


Palatine, IL, US
          

There is no such thing as a "correct" histogram. In many cases a histogram within the scale is fine, but there are also time when its "correct" to let it run to one side or the other. One of the things I enjoy most about photography is that there is no "recipe" for getting a great shot.

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Bob32 Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Jul 2007Sun 23-Jan-11 04:39 PM
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#32. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 26


Chico, US
          

Alan,

Your comments brought back memories of my early photographic efforts, especially those concerning Kodachrome. In 1956 I bought my first camera, a used Ekakta (my first Nikon slr didn't come along until the model F in 1960), and I commenced shooting Kodachrome with that wimpy ASA 10. And how right you were about that limited exposure latitude! I always purposely under-exposured Kodachrome for fear of blowing out the highlights even after Kodachrome was upgraded to a relatively supercharged ASA 64. Now I'm routinely shooting my D700 at ISO 6,400 for indoor sports like volleyball and basketball and even going up to ISO 12,800 if necessary. Holy Toledo! I can hardly believe it!

Fear of over-exposure has taken a while for me to overcome, but for shooting indoor sports in gyms which often have poor lighting I have gradually pushed the histogram further and further to the right to where I sometimes border on over-exposure. This still gives me good results and minimizes the noise at high ISO values. I concur that considerable editing of JPEGs is possible to enhance images.

I understand that there are a lot of people of German ancestry in Waterloo, Illinois. I was born and raised in Illinois but never have set foot in Waterloo.

Bob

  

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ajdooley Silver Member Nikonian since 25th May 2006Sun 23-Jan-11 06:47 PM
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#33. "RE: OP: Underexpose to Boost Colors ?!?"
In response to Reply # 32


Waterloo, US
          

Bob - I'm a relative newcomer here (about 8 years) but my wife, who has lived here much longer relates that eyars ago, much business was conducted here in German. In fact, in Columbia, just up Hwy 3, it was only last year when they remodeled their one large grocery store that they finalle removed the dual language product signs -- that of course, had German first!

Alan
Waterloo, IL, USA
www.proimagingmidamerica.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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