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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) topic #68324
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Subject: "digitizing and processing negative film" Previous topic | Next topic
radconsta Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2014Mon 01-Sep-14 04:24 AM
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"digitizing and processing negative film"


US
          

Hi guys,
I am having a hard time finding anywhere on this forum information on copying negatives with the camera. I don't even know if this is the best place to post - if not, please correct me.
I am using a D800E with the bellows and the slide copier attachment from Nikon, with a Nikkor 50mm f1.8 in between the two, as described previously in this forum.
I am shooting raw and plan to use Photoshop CS2. I copied a few slides and I started to play with them. I am not satisfied and I don't want to start shooting hundreds of negatives to realize later that there was a better way. I tried shooting with a blue filter - that did not seem to help much. I tried to change the WB on the camera, based on a non-exposed frame, that seemed to do nothing.
I tried the trial version of CF Systems Colorperfect - not impressed.
I really need help - I believe that it can be done, I just need the correct approach. And no, I don't want to send them to a company that does this, I want to use the hardware that I have...
Thank you

Rad Constantine
Alabama Nikonian

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
JonK Moderator Awarded for his high level skills and in-depth knowledge in various areas, such as Wildlife, Landscape and Stage Photography
01st Sep 2014
1
Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
radconsta Gold Member
01st Sep 2014
5
     Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library
02nd Sep 2014
6
Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library
01st Sep 2014
2
Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library
01st Sep 2014
3
     Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
radconsta Gold Member
01st Sep 2014
4
          Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
radconsta Gold Member
03rd Sep 2014
7
          Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
olivierrychner Gold Member  Awarded for his long standing high level of commitment to the Nikonians community and demonstrated excellence in the art and science of photography.
03rd Sep 2014
8
          Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
paulscott Silver Member
03rd Sep 2014
9
          Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
elec164 Silver Member
03rd Sep 2014
12
               Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
radconsta Gold Member
04th Sep 2014
14
          Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
ilvic_nikonian
03rd Sep 2014
10
               Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
radconsta Gold Member
03rd Sep 2014
11
                    Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
Matto Silver Member
03rd Sep 2014
13
                         Reply message RE: digitizing and processing film
MS Photog Silver Member
04th Sep 2014
15
Reply message RE: digitizing and processing negative film
Speedgraphic Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014
05th Sep 2014
16

JonK Moderator Awarded for his high level skills and in-depth knowledge in various areas, such as Wildlife, Landscape and Stage Photography Nikonian since 03rd Jul 2004Mon 01-Sep-14 04:02 PM
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#1. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 0


New York, US
          

It might be useful if you posted the images have have captured so far. Also, what is the light source?

Jon Kandel
A New York City Nikonian and Team Member
Please visit my website and critique the images!

  

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radconsta Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2014Mon 01-Sep-14 10:41 PM
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#5. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

Hi Jon,
You are right - I will post some negatives and the best positives I could come up with. I don't think I can post niff or psd though, can I?

Rad Constantine
Alabama Nikonian

  

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Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Tue 02-Sep-14 06:48 PM
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#6. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 5


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

Rad, here are the dimensions and method for down sizing a posted photo. It should be a jpg.

3.6. In the forums, there is a maximum 300KByte limit to each image posted, and you will get an error message trying to upload any bigger image file. This makes for a better experience for users and helps keep network traffic costs down.

Example of re-sizing process to reach under 300KB from Photoshop (similar process in other tools):
a. Open your file.
b. Image > Image Size
Set the longer dimension to 1,200 Pixels (maximum) and resolution to 72 or 96 pixels/inch.
c. File > Save for Web (Option)
d. Verify file size (or set to under 300KByte)
e. Save as a jpg type file


Len

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Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Mon 01-Sep-14 05:15 PM
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#2. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 0


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

Hi Rad. Copying slides should not be a problem with your setup. For a light source I mostly use daylight just by aiming the camera out a window or by using electronic flash with the camera WB set to Auto. I have never had a problem. Slide copying with a digital camera is easier and much faster than using a scanner.

Copying color negatives is another story. Besides having to convert a negative into a positive in software, you have to deal with the orange mask of color negative film. I looked at the Color Perfect page you describe in your post and I don't see the purpose of the program when using a scanner and scanning software like Vuescan. Vuescan has different presets for the different print films which eliminates the orange mask and optimizing the scan for contrast, brightness, black and white levels so it's ready for any optimizing you need in CS2.

Since I have nothing much to do today I'll do some experimenting with my D800 and slide copying setup to see what I can come up with in negative copying. If I find something useful I'll post it here but I expect it won't be an easy job.

Len

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Leonard62 Gold Member Awarded for excellent contributions and sharing his in-depth knowledge and experience with the community, especially of Nikkor Lenses Writer Ribbon awarded for his contributions to the Nikonians Resources articles library Nikonian since 15th Mar 2009Mon 01-Sep-14 08:26 PM
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#3. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 2


Hatboro, Pa, US
          

I just spent a couple hours trying to duplicate a scanned negative with the D800 and bellows/copy attachment. You're quite right. The WB is the biggest problem.

Here's the scanned photo. It's a photo of my parents apartment taken about 12 years ago. The film was Fuji Super HQ 200 film which is a common C41 processed film.



Here's the copy from the D800.



The problem is it took a 6 step process to get there.

1. Shot RAW at custom 2400 WB. Reduced to 2200 in CS6 raw converter.
2. In CS6 invert image.
3. Apply Auto Color
4. Apply Warming filter by 10%
5. Increase contrast by 75%
6. Add Smart Sharpening by 220%

I don't know if this sequence can be saved and applied automatically.

Len



Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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radconsta Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2014Mon 01-Sep-14 10:38 PM
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#4. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

Thank you so very much, Len - I will play around a little bit with your work algorrhytm and see how that goes. I do have an excellent transparency photo scanner but I don't think it would match what I should be able to accomplish with the d800. I was actually thinking to use the scanner software and see if it would work with the camera - maybe not, and, if yes, maybe only in tiff. I will repost and let you know.
I'll have to see also how much of your workflow PS CS2 will be able to match. I also have elements 12 but I think even CS2 is better.
Rad

>I just spent a couple hours trying to duplicate a scanned
>negative with the D800 and bellows/copy attachment. You're
>quite right. The WB is the biggest problem.
>
>Here's the scanned photo. It's a photo of my parents apartment
>taken about 12 years ago. The film was Fuji Super HQ 200 film
>which is a common C41 processed film.
>
>
>
>Here's the copy from the D800.
>
>
>
>The problem is it took a 6 step process to get there.
>
>1. Shot RAW at custom 2400 WB. Reduced to 2200 in CS6 raw
>converter.
>2. In CS6 invert image.
>3. Apply Auto Color
>4. Apply Warming filter by 10%
>5. Increase contrast by 75%
>6. Add Smart Sharpening by 220%
>
>I don't know if this sequence can be saved and applied
>automatically.
>
>Len
>
>
>
>

Rad Constantine
Alabama Nikonian

  

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radconsta Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2014Wed 03-Sep-14 05:33 AM
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#7. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 4


US
          

Here they are: 2 negatives, the way they came out without any adjustments. Than the 2 positives from those. I could get the WB better before the invert command, etc. I use an incandescent light - the issue with sunlight is that it varies and i am trying to determine the best way to get reproducible results. I have now a blue filter for the light, but it does not seem to take all the orange haze.
NOTE: I just saw that the horizontal negative is not exactly the one i used for the positive - it is one of the first tries, with too wide an aperture - that is why everything that is off center is blurry or soft. It should still be sufficient to give you an idea of what I am starting with.











Rad Constantine
Alabama Nikonian

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)
Attachment #4, (jpg file)

  

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olivierrychner Gold Member  Awarded for his long standing high level of commitment to the Nikonians community and demonstrated excellence in the art and science of photography. Nikonian since 03rd Jan 2005Wed 03-Sep-14 08:11 AM
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#8. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 7


Boudry, CH
          

Hi!

I am not an expert on those operations, but I think you're doing fine.

I have read you want to use your hardware, and mostly CS2 which you state you prefer to Elements 12, but why not give a try to LR?

With Lightroom, you could easily sort your files by collections (events), add keywords for references (places, people...), and do a state-of-the art demosaicing of the raw files, with the possible jump to CS (a hefty tiff file) for detail work. Plus the batch treatment for a series of files from the same location with the same light conditions is a breeze, a mere click - select - paste...

Just my two cents' worth, in any case!

Olivier Rychner
__________________________________________
Jetez un oeil ŕ ma galerie if you feel like it! And it's a bit void as of now, but I also have a Nikonians blog

Auta i lomë! And my Nikon's only awaiting daylight...

  

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paulscott Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Oct 2009Wed 03-Sep-14 11:05 AM
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#9. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 8


Crickhowell, UK
          

For several months now I've been using a Minolta Elite 5400 film scanner (bought second-hand). Results for archiving my old negatives and slides are good by my standards. The carrier takes up to 6 slides / negs and using Vuescan software is really easy - although not too fast, I admit. Fo archiving I'm then using LR5.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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elec164 Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jan 2009Wed 03-Sep-14 03:15 PM
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#12. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 7


US
          

>results. I have now a blue filter for the light, but it does
>not seem to take all the orange haze.

The orange haze is not so much due to the light source (although you should be suing a daylight CT bulb), but the masking layer of color negative film to correct for impure dye layers.

Just Google "color negative film mask" and you will get plenty of hits on advice on how to digitize color negative film such as this YouTube video.

Hope this helps.

Pete

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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radconsta Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2014Thu 04-Sep-14 03:06 AM
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#14. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

Thank you, Pete - your advice and the video really helped. I ordered some filters and I'll play with them.

Rad Constantine
Alabama Nikonian

  

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ilvic_nikonian Registered since 05th Jun 2014Wed 03-Sep-14 11:07 AM
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#10. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 4


Kraków, PL
          

I have digitized most of my slides and negatives (several thousands) with a D300 and a Micro-Nikkor 105/2.8, using a (Kaiser) repro stand and light box. I used f8 as aperture, automatic exposure time, exposure delay mode and a cable release.
Digitizing the slides was rather quick as I have a special made (heavy) device where I can drop the slides. Initially I used it also for the negatives, but it turned out that I could work much faster when using the mask(s) delivered with an Epson scanner (already obsolete as it was a model sold 15-20 years ago).
For the color negatives I used two blue filters: One after the illumination lamp for making the light more white, the second as color correction filter in front of the lens.
RAW files were imported in Lightroom for post processing.

When using a bellows, best is to use the lens in retro position for optimal results.

  

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radconsta Gold Member Nikonian since 01st Apr 2014Wed 03-Sep-14 12:02 PM
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#11. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Using two blue filters is a very interesting idea. I will most definitely try that.

Rad Constantine
Alabama Nikonian

  

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Matto Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Jan 2007Wed 03-Sep-14 05:27 PM
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#13. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 11


Glenwood, US
          

I have been copying slides with my D7000 the 40mm f2.8 DX lens, a blue tungsten lamp, the camera WB set for daylight, and the JPEG out of the camera color copy has been fine.

Matthew

  

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MS Photog Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Nov 2011Thu 04-Sep-14 10:51 PM
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#15. "RE: digitizing and processing film"
In response to Reply # 13


Carthage, US
          

I have been using a Canoscan 9950F to scan slides and negatives for the last few years and it does a great job. It came with a tray that holds 12 slides. I scan at 24mp to a tiff file and use Lightroom to edit and correct. My only complaint is how long it takes. Scanning 12 slides at this resolution takes about 15 minutes. It also came with a tray to handle 35mm negatives and I am happy with them also.

I have a T-mount slide copier I bought in the 1970's and tried using it on my D7000. Of course I had to pick slides that could be cropped without losing anything important. I used daylight as stated above and shot in RAW. I was disappointed with the contrast results. The Lightroom histogram showed most of the colors heavily on both the right and left with very little content in the center 2/3 of the chart. How can I correct this? Almost all of my old slides are Kodachrome.

Marlin

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Speedgraphic Silver Member Donor Ribbon awarded for his support to the Fundraising Campaign 2014 Charter MemberFri 05-Sep-14 03:20 PM
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#16. "RE: digitizing and processing negative film"
In response to Reply # 0


Albany, US
          

Although I have the bellows and slide and negative copying attachment I have not tried this. I bought an expensive scanner that lets me do 12 slides in a batch...

Earlier this year I saw this video where a fellow is copying slides using a slide projector with auto advance and a dslr with an intervalometer. Load a slide tray start projector and camera and walk away...

Here is the link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnvhBXQrfzQ

Good Light!

Speedy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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