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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberWed 20-May-09 03:26 AM
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"Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"


Colorado Springs, US
          

Ok, I am frustrated with Lightroom because it just is not mature enough to handle NEFs

So I am in the process of evaluating Photo Mechanic (do not own) and Adobe Bridge (which I DO own).

What are your opinions?
Photo Mechanic seems to be the preference here on Nikonians, but I am not sure why. These two "seem" to do most of the same things?

Please advise - opinions are requested.

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Mon 18-May-09 01:46 AM
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#1. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 22-May-09 02:54 PM by walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
          

What makes you think Lightroom isn't mature enough to handle NEF's? That's definitely not my experience.

Both Bridge and Photo Mechanic work well in my experience. Bridge is generally preferred by those using an Adobe centric workflow, especially those using NEFs with sidecar files. Photo Mechanic works better with an NX or NX2-centric workflow or one that uses DNGs; it needs embedded previews that reflect the current state of your raw file for accurate thumbnails.

I use LR2 for most of what I do (maybe around 85%). Some operations, like file renaming and working with files not in the catalog are done in Bridge (that's maybe 10% of the time). The remainder of functions are done in Photo Mechanic. That includes some GPS tagging and situations where its speed is handy. It will read embedded DNG or NEF previews quickly - faster than about anything else.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberMon 18-May-09 02:15 AM
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#2. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 1


Colorado Springs, US
          

Thanks Rick,

When I say "Not Mature Enough" I am referring to the fact that LR cannot read embedded JPES; which is frustrating since Bridge can?

Anyway - I am dedicated to Capture NX2. I like using it and that makes it easy for me to do post processing - I mean, I really like using it.

My issue is file transfers & cataloging. I know neither Bridge nor PM is a "cataloging" program, but they do OK. See I am on Vista 64 and I don't even get thumbs of NEFs.

So I am trying to justify the extra expense, but I think I am missing something - between Bridge & PM - they seem to be fairly the same?

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Mon 18-May-09 02:22 AM
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#3. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 2


Colorado Springs, US
          

Lightroom isn't intended to work with NX2; the assumption is that you are using it for your raw conversion. That doesn't make it immature in my opinion. Everything would be immature, including NX2, if you evaluated them on 100% compatibility with other programs.

If you're using NX2, you'll want to stick with Photo Mechanic. It's more compatible with NX2, including how it handles metadata, ratings and labels.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Mon 18-May-09 02:20 PM
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#5. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 2


Canton, US
          

Lightroom is intended to work as a self-contained database and RAW processing program. In that sense it is very mature and full functioned. If you are going to primarily use NX for whatever reason, there is no reason to even consider Lightroom. But NX is VERY immature as a database and file managing program; so you would have to use something like Bridge or Photo Mechanic for those chores.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Mon 18-May-09 02:48 PM
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#6. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 5


Colorado Springs, US
          

...plus something like Expression Media as a database/catalog.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberWed 20-May-09 05:39 PM
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#26. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 6


Colorado Springs, US
          

Rick,

I know that EM witll read/see the embeded JPGs, will it read/see the metadata changes/updates form NX2 & PM?

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 22-May-09 02:57 PM
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#44. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 26


Colorado Springs, US
          

Yes, but EM has issues with reading ratings and color labels from other programs. There are ways to make Bridge output rating info in other fields that EM can then read, but it's awkward.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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hrbaan Registered since 29th Oct 2005Mon 18-May-09 06:49 AM
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#4. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 0


Kockengen, NL
          

I agree with Rick: if you use Nikon Capture (actually any version) to perform your RAW edits, your best option is to go with PhotoMechanic as it completely supports the RAW workflow you use.

If you haven't already, get your trial version of PhotoMechanic from camerabits. Download and read the manual first though to familiarize yourself with all the possibilities.

Cheers, Hayo Baan
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hrbaan


When it's time to stop living, I will certainly make Death my number one choice!
Terry Pratchett, The Last Continent

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Mon 18-May-09 02:49 PM
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#7. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I use NX2, PM and iMatch for my cataloging. iMatch is the last ingredient since PM doesn't catalog. iMatch also reads the embedded JPGs in the NEFs.

_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery

  

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C_F Gold Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2008Mon 18-May-09 05:13 PM
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#8. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 7


Anderson, US
          

Hi Neil,
thanks for mentioning iMatch in your post. Of what I read on their website so far it looks like exactly what I was looking for . I'm wondering what function PM fulfills between iMatch & NX2?
Thanks,
Franz

Don't dream your life - live your dream

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Mon 18-May-09 06:12 PM
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#9. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon 18-May-09 06:12 PM by nrothschild

US
          

>> I'm wondering what function PM fulfills between iMatch & NX2?

Good question . My opinion is biased for two reasons. First, I bought PM before iMatch, and I mentally need to justify that price tag . I'm serious here. Second, I find PM particularly easy and fast to do what it does well- ingesting, initial culling, assignment of metadata. It really is a pleasure to use, in a way I can't explain any better. Or maybe it's just the cost

Here are some things that iMatch either does not do at all or not very well, or maybe I don't understand those aspects of it

- It does not do an ingest. You would have to use Nikon software. PM does a great job of ingesting to multiple locations (for backup), assigning initial IPTC and keywords, and very flexible file renaming (which you can do in iMatch but I have never used because of PM).

- PM is amazingly fast at displaying thumbnails. iMatch is fast but can't keep up. OM is also much faster, in my experience, when paging through images while displaying large previews of the current thumbnail. If you process large batches of images, as I do, this is a huge time saver. I'm talking about thousands of images.

iMatch has at least one way to mass load iptc, but I've never used it so I don;t know what practical issues it has. the way I know is to select an .XMP file, and I guess it applies it to the selected images. I presume you would set up an XMP on one image, field by fioeld, and then take it from there. I guess you could make stock XMP files but PM is just way easier and more intuitive with their "snapshots" and saved stock settings.

As a cataloging app, iMatch cannot see images that you have not imported to the catalog. That is fundamental to the app, and it makes sense. It is not a front end browser, it is a cataloger.

Loading images into iMatch is very time consuming. It has to generate a thumbnail (400 pixels or less), and extract an "offline cash" image if you use that feature. Because all this is user defined, you set your own level of pain, in terms of time required and disk space used. I store an offline cache of 1400 pixel images. I keep the cache on my laptop so I always have at least that image with me, even if I don't have my Drobo with me, which holds my 1.5TB image archive.

From what I see, at best I get about 30 images/minute for my catalog imports. If you have thousands of images to import, that is a significant amount of time and I often do this overnight.

I have also had problems with iMatch's API's crashing on large imports. The reasons have changed as iMatch has changed over time, and it seems to have something to do with Nikon's new imaging modules. I may have more problems than most, and my problems are exacerbated by my D2H. The D2H and other older bodies generate JPG previews in the NEF files smaller than my 1400 pixel cache images, and in that case iMatch actually renders it's cache images by doing a full NEF render. As you can imagine, that's no fun. My thorughput can be as low as 4/minute. I go out of my way not to use my D2H, mainly because of the pain I go through with this problem.

Due to the above, even if you get better throughput than I do, it does not make sense to do your culling in iMatch, where you are paying a price to bring the images in, and then cull them out. iMatch is not as fast a browser or culler, and you have all that database activity overhead.

iMatch has some very good features for star and color rating. It also uses hierarchical categories, rather than keywords. For example, a category could look like this:

What
..Animals
....Birds
......Osprey

They appear as a windows tree list, with collapsible branches. If you have hundreds of categories, this is the only sensible approach.

You can enter them as keywords in PM, like this:

What.Animals.Birds.Osprey

That is a rather cumbersome keyword, and if you do Who, What , Where type keywording, as you most probably do, either formally or by accident, it is rather tedious in PM. For that reason, I'm not sure how much keywording I want to try to do in PM. I am now doing a basic set, to make sure I have something, and try to allocate the time after my iMatch import to refine it (I never get caught up though- a continual work in process)

iMatch is very flexible in terms of adapting to various front end browser quirks in how they handle keywording and iptc metadata. Similarly PM is very flexible, and there is at least one combination that makes for a smooth import. I have not, however, found a way to build a two way bridge. IOW, once the image is in iMatch I no longer use PM to manage ratings, keywords or other metadata. I don;t think it can be done.

One thing I do NOT like about PM is that it likes to update NEF files. Even if you tell it not to do so, it does it on the sly for certain things such as star ratings. It is not documented but I know for a fact it does it. I am not concerned with data corruption, but I don't like the idea that rather large 12MB nefs are updated just to change some metadata that can and is maintained in XMP files, for purposes of backup, versioning, etc. iMatch never updates the NEF, so once my images are in iMatch they are stable and I don't have to deal with chronic mass syncing of data. Here iMatch plays to what I perceive to be a weakness of PM.

iMatch has it's own quirks. For example, if you copy a cataloged image to another folder, that copy is placed in the catalog. If you are highly organized that can be a good idea. Otherwise, I think it creates some problems when that copy is meant to be temporary (or I don't know where it will ultimately end up- I copied it to make a set of images to print or upload to my web gallery). For that job, I would rather use OM, I think, depending on things. Just to say that it is nice to have two very good tools, good at different things.

iMatch is supposedly the fastest cataloger out there. I have 150K images in my database, and growing because I have another 50K left to go, I think, just to get my old images cataloged. It's fast, but not as fast as PM in the ways I describe above. I don't want to unfairly denigrate the app.

One thing that iMatch does that is absolutely extraordinary is the scripting ability. It uses a VB type scripting language. If it doesn't do something you want it to do, you can often write your own script. A large body of pre-written scripts are available on the site, plus a couple shipped with the app. That alone is worth the price of admission although I have not done much scripting myself because my iMatch time is spent getting my image collection cataloged and categorized.

If you like iMatch, you really need some sort of front end browser. The issue is, will ViewNX do the job, for free, or do you need a $150 front end browser. I bought PM prior to ViewNX, where the old View absolutely did not cut it for me. I keep ViewNX up to date, and I'm impressed with where it's going. BUT, it is no PM and never will be. Just the ability to open multiple contact sheets in PM is worth the price of admission (having already paid) and I cannot imagine going back to a single thumbnail display.

You can eval both apps. I would suggest you eval one at a time. iMatch is quite complex, as is any cataloger, but more so because it is so richly featured. It will take your entire attention to get your arms around that. PM is fundamentally simpler, but the things that make PM worthwhile are often quite subtle and may not be obvious with a cursory overview.

_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery

  

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TiggerGTO Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Feb 2006Mon 18-May-09 07:32 PM
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#10. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 9


Apex, US
          

Neil,
Have you played with PM's code replacements? They are indispensable. You could have a replacement defined for osprey and type /osprey/ and it will automatically get expanded to What.Animals.Birds.Osprey. You could come up with your own abbreviations to use during keywording and use /osp/ for osprey and /ost/ for ostrich.

I use code replacements for sports shooting all the time. With PM, I can process a whole game's worth of pictures in about 15-20 minutes and have a batch FTP upload started to the site I use where the parents can view and order pictures. I make a pass through the images to mark my keepers by assigning a color rating to them. I set the filter to show only the selected color and make another pass to type the jersey number in an unused IPTC field -- I use "edit status". Then I have a stationery pad that has /c{editstatus}/ in the caption field and /k{editstatus}/ in the keyword field (that might not be the exact syntax, but you it explains the usage). When I apply the stationery pad to the selected photos, the replacements get expanded as appropriate in the two fields. I usually do one more pass to do soft crops in PM that it will apply to the JPGs when it extracts them from the embedded previews. The new beta has great features for FTPing images. It will use the embedded preview and automatically apply the crop.

I considered dumping NX2 to go to Lightroom, but PM is too important in to me in my current workflow. I like editing NEFs in NX2, but I like dealing with ingesting, culling, rating and keywording in PM even more. In the end, it was PM that made me stay with my workflow more than NX2.

Danny
A Nikonian in North Carolina

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Tue 19-May-09 02:09 PM
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#12. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Danny, thanks for the tip. I wasn't even aware of code replacements; have to read the manual and investigate.

You also mentioned soft crops, which I forgot to mention. There are so many good features in PM I find it difficult to discuss that app without missing important ones

To expand on your comments, one of the things I like about PM is that I can shoot Raw (without additional in camera JPGs) and basically operate as if I were shooting JPG from a workflow point of view, which is obviously fast because once you get into a lot of Raw processing, especially with NX, things bog down.

I do my culling, rating and IPTC assignements against the Raw files. Extract the JPG into a full size JPG into a sub-folder, soft crop the full JPGS, and then generate web size images (with embedded copyright) from the JPGs. (same thing you are doing). If any images need editing of the raws, I do that first, of course, but I'm pretty happy with most images out of camera, at least for web display.

For backup purposes I like to create a folder of selected NEFs (highly rated) which usually are the source of most follow up work. I do that because although I keep most of my original images, I really care about 1-5% of them and ultimately file them in a separate folder structure. Has something to do with keeping better and more backups of those selects. I edit the NEFs in NX, only as needed, and then generate the full JPGs and then web JPGS as needed. If I do selective printing I might generate a JPG from the raw, or work a TIF in PS if needed, but for the most part the embedded JPGs are more than good enough, especially for initial web display. Once NX edits a NEF, the embedded JPG is now something like a 95% quality, which is fine for just about anything. Any "special prints" are likely edited in NX.

The latest version of PM can apparently do the web downsizing and other things, such as watermarking, directly from the NEF, which would save me the step of the interim full size JPG, making it even faster, but I have not upgraded yet, mainly having something to do with the $90 maintenance fee . I'll break down eventually, though.


_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery

  

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TiggerGTO Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Feb 2006Wed 20-May-09 03:07 PM
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#21. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 12
Wed 20-May-09 03:11 PM by TiggerGTO

Apex, US
          

>I do my culling, rating and IPTC assignements against the Raw files.
>Extract the JPG into a full size JPG into a sub-folder, soft crop the
>full JPGS, and then generate web size images (with embedded copyright)
>from the JPGs. (same thing you are doing). If any images need editing
>of the raws, I do that first, of course, but I'm pretty happy with
>most images out of camera, at least for web display.

PM actually makes it much easier than that. PM has the ability to mark soft crops on its image preview panel while you are viewing the RAW file. When you extract JPGs you can tell it to apply the crops. This saves you from going through yet another edit step on the extracted JPGs. The only downside I've seen to using this is that if you edit and save the NEF with NX2, the soft crop is lost. Apparently PM is saving the crop as instructions in the NEF that NX2 ignores and throws away. This typically doesn't matter though because if I go to the trouble to edit the file in NX2, I will probably crop it much like the soft crop I did with PM. It would be great if NX2 could see and preserve PM's crops as an edit step, but I won't hold my breath for that to ever become a reality. I wish that the guys at CameraBits and the guys at Nik would get their heads together for a little direct collaboration. They could make the combination of PM and NX2 way more than the sum of the parts with just a few tweaks.

Also, PM has the ability to build web albums, send emails with the pictures attached, do FTP uploads all using JPGs automatically extracted from the NEFs.

I've lost track which of these features are in 4.6 and which are new to 4.6.1 that is currently in beta and should be final by the end of the month.

Like I said in my previous post, I can cull, tag, crop and upload a shoot for a soccer game in about 15 minutes and with 4.6.1, I don't have to go through any extra steps to extract JPGs or crop them. All my work is done directly on the NEFs with PM doing the heavy lifting in the background.

Edited to add: I wrote this post before I read the very last paragraph of your post. The new features in 4.6.1 are what convinced me to renew my license fee for PM. It is definitely worth it for the new features that can dramatically streamline your NEF based workflow.

Danny
A Nikonian in North Carolina

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Wed 20-May-09 03:19 PM
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#23. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 21


US
          

The soft cropping of NEFs was added to V4.6, along with the ability, I think, to "Save as..." embedded JPGs from the NEF.

I like the soft crops and tend to avoid cropping in NX because otherwise I lose sight of the boundaries of the original image. Just a personal preference.

I agree that the 4.6 features are worthwhile. I just have too many $90 (+) things on my want list right now . It's up there though.

One of the hidden expenses of imaging software is the need to keep everything up to date if you are also regularly upgrading bodies. It gets expensive and it's a fairly regular thing now. I'm still on CS for that work and that's another upgrade coming

_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery

  

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Kirk Baker Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Feb 2009Fri 22-May-09 06:11 AM
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#40. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

Neil,

>The latest version of PM can apparently do the web downsizing
>and other things, such as watermarking, directly from the NEF,
>which would save me the step of the interim full size JPG,
>making it even faster, but I have not upgraded yet, mainly
>having something to do with the $90 maintenance fee . I'll
>break down eventually, though.

We kind of bristle at calling our Updates license a 'maintenance fee' since a maintenance fee is required without end and our Updates license is not like that. Ours is like an upgrade fee that you choose to purchase when a newer version seems worthwhile, and in addition you end up being able to get any new major version that comes out within a year of your purchase of the Updates license.

Maintenance fees when not paid result in an app that no longer functions. Photo Mechanic doesn't work that way. Whatever version you own will continue to work indefinitely (subject to changes in your environment beyond Photo Mechanic's control, like upgrading to an OS that your version of Photo Mechanic can't run on properly.)

HTH,

-Kirk

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Fri 22-May-09 11:13 AM
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#42. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 40


US
          

I wouldn't bristle too much over that

>> Maintenance fees when not paid result in an app that no longer functions.

Having spent 20 years developing and selling commercial enterprise level software, I don't think that the above is correct in the context that it is generally used, or is the typical definition of "maintenance fee" in software contracts. In our business and any others I can think of (Oracle, SAP, etc.), a "maintenance fee" is not tied to continuing operation of the software. Our customers are free to drop their maintenance and continue to use the app. They just don't get the support or upgrades/fixes that the maintenance fee provides. I only wish our software stopped working if they dropped their maintenance

_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery

  

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C_F Gold Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2008Tue 19-May-09 01:50 PM
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#11. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 9


Anderson, US
          

Neil - that's what I thought ... or should I say 'was afraid of' ,
thus far I have been working with N-transfer - ViewNX - NX/NX2 - Paintshop pro X2 - Picasa3 (usually in that order); so I haven't been 'infected' with PM's speed advantages otoh haven't nearly as many pics to deal with either - yet
While picasa is ok for browsing it does have shortcomings & limitations (for one it tends to want to 'grab' any picture it can find duplicates and all...). It appears to me that iMatch lets you determine which files/folders to include into its catalog by default manually & explicit. So, for items that are considered 'finished' it might just be the ticket to have, no matter where the physical location is. The EXIF, IPTC and XMP metadata capabilities also seem extensive.
Bottom line for me it seems PM is more 'front end' (transfer/ViewNX) and then its a matter of throughput(quantity) - it would be interesting to know where the 'break even' point could be set (pics/batch/frequency) to make it worth its price .
I think I'll give IMatch a 'test drive'.

Thanks for your time to explain the differences and your application of those two programs
Franz

Don't dream your life - live your dream

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Tue 19-May-09 02:42 PM
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#13. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 11


US
          

iMatch will import anything into the one or more top level folders you specify. Anything underneath those folders is automatically imported if you do a "scan" on that top level folder. You can scan lower level folders, but that would just save some time or allow you to avoid a very long ingest if you have many new images sprinkled around the various sub-folders. basically you want to define one or more top level folders for the catalog. You can also catalog DVD's and, or course, external drives in the same manner. I don't believe you can exclude anything. I think the end result is a sensible folder structure, one cataloged and one work in process.

The "break even" is what it's worth to you . I can;t help you there and I think you understand why

I would not demo that app, though (PM), unless you are prepared to buy it, regardless of your volumes. Otherwise you will just be upset when the eval expires

I installed Picassa once, watched it start searching all my drives, and decided I didn't want that . I have terabytes, though. It's an interesting concept and would have helped me with all the misc stuff scattered everywhere, including things I download off the net for one reason or another but I didn't shoot, nor have I organized well. I can't comment on it beyond that, except to say that Picassa is designed for the average not very knowledgeable user, where iMatch requires a great deal of thought, but returns the effort if you need that level of functionality, especially the scripting.

Within the next year, a new iMatch "Next Generation" version should be available. I don't know any specifics and I don't think they have been released. From what I've heard it will be a "prettier" app, among other things. Just something to keep in mind when you eval the current iMatch. Some people find the interface "utlitiarian and/or clunky" and certainly not up to the gui standards that other apps have met. Personally I just want the functionality and I'm tired of pretty apps that were written by people that don;t really use them or understand the user needs at a primordial level. It's also a very cheap app, with no annual maintenance fees, although I think he will (rightfully) charge for his Next Gen upgrade. It is also very well supported, better than most consumer apps that charge you for support.

_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery

  

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C_F Gold Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2008Tue 19-May-09 03:18 PM
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#14. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 13


Anderson, US
          

Picasa is useful to me because my family is 'scattered' all of the place (States & Europe) and it is very convenient to 'one click' upload to my gmail photo account to share my ongoing 'activities' -I'm not using it to process pictures - I have not seen gmail/google mentioned in PM's new upload feature...?!?

I did notice quite some activity @ iMatch forum and if its 'location' features work as advertised I'd be in good shape for now (lots of external hard drives dvds cds etc...) - lol, come to think of it, my hardware is almost in as bad a mess as my pictures...

Having worked over 20 years with pc's I also appreciate functionality over 'pretty' as long as its intuitive.

/q
I would not demo that app, though (PM), unless you are prepared to buy it, regardless of your volumes. Otherwise you will just be upset when the eval expires
/end q

Hehe, thanks, point taken...that's why iMatch first
Cheers,
Franz

Don't dream your life - live your dream

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Tue 19-May-09 04:06 PM
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#15. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 14


US
          

The location feature does work very well. The objective of the catalog is actually to make your database independent of the physical folder structure. Personally I can't mentally get there, to the extent that I still, by habit, keep my folder structure such that I can navigate my images as best possible without the catalog. Part of that is years old habit, and part because in the back of my mind I don't ever want to be totally beholden to any software app. BUT, having a well categorized image DB is a wonderful thing and fixes a lot of problems inherent in trying to do that with a folder structure.

I have 4 or 5 major types of shooting (such as "wildlife") I do, and I keep them in separate high level folders. Everything else under "Miscellaneous". Under those high level folders are a structure by year, and under year, each shoot date. I often question if I should just abandon the major subject structures because often things intersect. The categories save me, though, because I can find anything I have properly categorized.

If you work with PC's then you probably think in a hierarchical way, which is where the hierarchical categories work well, much better than flat keywords used by most other imaging DB's.

Another interesting feature for IT types is the "Properties" feature. You can dynamically add fields to the database. I have only used a few, but for specialized imaging I have thought about some interesting applications for that.

I attached a screen shot from a small portion of my category structure, where I do a lot of lunar imaging and categorize by the age of the moon. For my purposes, I need it very fine grained, down to the hour, although any hour in a day is roughly similar for other purposes. In that one structure alone I have about 80 categories because almost any given day is a more or less unique combination of hours and days. It's further complicated by the fact that although usually this is a dedicated "session" and stored under my "Astro" major subject group folder structure, I have run into these lunar images in all kinds of general shooting because I do key into the moon when I can. It might just be a grab shot when I happen to have a long lens on hand while shooting some other subject. Some of these images are more generally landscape oriented than lunar.

If I wanted to, I could make lunar age a couple of properties (day and hour) but it's just a specialty thing so I didn't bother. But I could if it made sense. I would think sports photographers have the same type of issues where they track images by sport, team, and player.

I must have over 500 categories at this point, and I'm only half done.

You can also make dynamic categories based on EXIF or iptc data. I have dynamic categories by lens and focal length. I could do a query, for example, of all lunar images 2 days old shot with my 500/4, or at 700mm. That is actually an important query for me

It is a neat app, especially for those like me that have spent a lifetime working with traditional databases.

_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Tue 19-May-09 09:01 PM
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#16. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 15


Canton, US
          

I used to use iMatch and was impressed with its capabiliies. However, it does seem to be more complicated than it needs to be. It's a great application for people with an IT background. For me, Lightroom is very functional, more intuitive and better meets the needs of photographers. While its keywording structure may not have the folderlike structure of iMatch, it is very simple to use, very powerful, and makes it a snap to search for images.

I can't overemphasize how much switching from several programs to just one for viewing, cataloging and editing images has made my life easier and more productive as a photographer.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberWed 20-May-09 03:15 AM
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#17. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 16


Colorado Springs, US
          

But, LightRoom doesn't read the RAW edits or the JPEG form the RAW file? How do you get around this fundamental fact?

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Wed 20-May-09 08:40 AM
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#19. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 17


Canton, US
          

>But, LightRoom doesn't read the RAW edits or the JPEG form
>the RAW file? How do you get around this fundamental fact?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. There are absolutely zero issues with Lightroom rendering thumbnails or showing any edits you may make to the RAW file.

What it won't do, however, is default to the Nikon in-camera settings used when you captured a NEF file, as NX does. Is that what you're referring to?

Or perhaps Lightroom will ignore any edits made to the RAW file by another program? If so, that really isn't an issue unless you switch back and forth between multiple RAW converters.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Wed 20-May-09 02:06 PM
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#20. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 19


Colorado Springs, US
          

Based on the earlier posts, I think Chris is wanting something to complement NX2 rather than handling the raw edits itself.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Wed 20-May-09 04:03 PM
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#24. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 17


Colorado Springs, US
          

You get around it by using LR as your RAW converter/editor.

This is a fundamental issue with nearly "RAW Saavy" application out there-- most use the approach of rendering the RAW (NEF) using a RAW conversion algorithm. Edits to RAW files are not read/processed by other software not using the same RAW engine.

The strategy taken by Adobe with Lightroom and Apple with Aperture is that the DAM/editing application is one and the same, and they use the built-in RAW engine. In Apple's case, it is the OS-level Apple RAW converter, and with Adobe, it is ACR.

If you choose to use *either* of these programs, the developers are assuming you use their software to process the RAW files as well as use the DAM system.

You get thrown for a loop when you want to use a different RAW converter for your images (NX or otherwise). Since LR/ACR/Aperture/iPhoto won't *read* NEFs edited in other RAW converters, you have a disconnect between what is displayed in your browser and the way the processed NEF looks.

There are two potential work-arounds to this workflow challenge assuming you don't just use the Adobe/Apple RAW conveters.

1) Convert your NEFs to TIFF prior to cataloging
2) Use an application that doesn't convert your NEFs but instead uses the embedded preview JPEG as the thumbnail image.

Method #1 is pretty much universal. You can convert *any* NEF to TIFF (or JPEG) and have it display properly in your browser/catalog. The only drawback is that now you have two master files-- the NEF and the TIFF.

Method #2 *only* works if your NEF has an embedded preview JPEG that is modified during editing to show the edited NEF (otherwise, you'll see the as-shot version as the thumbnail). For this to work, you need two tools: Capture NX (which saves a new image preview inside your NEFs) and a program that does not convert NEFs but instead has the option to view the preview JPEG as the image thumbnail. Photo Mechanic is one such program, iMatch is another, and Microsoft Expression Media is a third. This process works for DNGs, too, but at that point you are probably already using the Adobe converter for your workflow.

That's pretty much the state of things today, and this is why I recommend Photo Mechanic for Capture NX users-- it flat-out makes your back-end work (email, FTP, websites) ridiculously simple because it operates on the embedded preview JPEGs and doesn't re-convert your NEFs. The advantage is two-fold: you don't have to convert your NEFs to TIFF/JPEG every time you want to email/post/create a gallery, and browsing is very FAST.

The downside to Photo Mechanic is that it is not a database/catalog.

However, I am still getting by without need for a catalog. IMO, despite the advantages of a true image catalog, the "real-world need" for one is not as substantial as the DAM zealots would suggest.
Smart keywording and intelligent file structures can help a lot.

-Jason

Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberWed 20-May-09 05:35 PM
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#25. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 24


Colorado Springs, US
          

Jason,

Thank you for responding - this makes a lot of since.
The whole workflow issues/complexity thing has actually stopped me form shooting for more than a year. It's become so frustratingly complicated that I didn't even want to shoot anymore for fear of having to do "something" with the images!

Since I got my D700 a couple of months ago I have enjoyed shooting again, but still find myself fumbling through a couple of grand worth of software applications!

I have LightRoom and I really like the Cataloging component. I have iViewMedia Pro and Portfolio as well - But like LR the best.

I have in the past month bought your book, and videos for NX2 - this is really exciting stuff! I also have Vincent’s DVD as well; and the combination of these items coupled with the new changes to NX - I am really enjoying shooting & editing in RAW. I have CS4, but again, find it too complex to deal with for just editing photos. I am a software engineer and on the computer all day, so I really am trying to keep my post processing simple - yet effective.

I went ahead and bought Photo Mechanic – it is truly a fast and easy ingesting processor and yes it will read the embedded JPG, and yes is does not catalog?

If there was a way to get PM, LR & NX2 to wrote/read the meta data and the embedded images the same – we would be styling!

I’m looking for a way to export all my LR settings so that PM can read the; but that is another thread.
For now it looks like LR is just going to sit dormant?

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 21-May-09 03:27 AM
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#27. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 25


Colorado Springs, US
          

If you're going to convert to an NX2/PM environment, PM has a function that will read the metadata from the XMP sidecar files created in LR (you had to have that option enabled in LR) and then write the data into the NEF. Both NX2 and PM will then be able to read the data. This function is Tools>Update IPTC/XMP and is covered in the PM user manual. PM does have the ability to read the XMP sidecar files, but since NX2 can't see them, they're not a good solution long-term given your decision.

If you didn't have the option to create sidecars enabled in LR, you can still turn it on and then create them after the fact. Just select all files in a directory (or in the entire LR database) and do a Metadata/Save Metadata to File while in the Library view.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberThu 21-May-09 04:34 AM
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#28. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 27


Colorado Springs, US
          

Yes, I did figure this out (today).

What I know is that at this point, no tagging/key-wording yet done with PM, is I can write out ALL the XMP files in LR.

I can then create a new contact sheet(s), select ALL the thumbs and go to TOOLS then DELETE METADATA in PM to "reset" the metadata.

This will clear out any metadata that PM wrote and then it will read the XMP files LR created and embed the information.

I also have PM updating the XMP file if it exists (but it has to exist - it will not create oen if it is not there).

I am a little nervous having all these sidecar file (thousands) but I guess for now it will have to do. I was not able to find in LR the ability to embed (or read) the IPTC data?

I also found out that it is very important to keep the Color Level names the same throughout each application.

What I do not know how to to is how to get this data into NX2?
When I browse in NX2, it does not see the embedded information from PM nor does it read the sidecar files? PM does read any changes to the file, but not the other way; if there is a way or a setting - I sure can't figure it out?


---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 21-May-09 02:16 PM
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#30. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 28


Colorado Springs, US
          


>
>I am a little nervous having all these sidecar file
>(thousands) but I guess for now it will have to do. I was not
>able to find in LR the ability to embed (or read) the IPTC
>data?

They're utterly benign - no problem. LR won't embed IPTC info in the file itself, unless it's a jpeg, tiff, psd or dng - things it understands and that are documented.

>
>I also found out that it is very important to keep the Color
>Level names the same throughout each application.
>

Yes, color labels need to be consistent and the names of them need to be identical.

>What I do not know how to to is how to get this data into
>NX2?
>When I browse in NX2, it does not see the embedded information
>from PM nor does it read the sidecar files? PM does read any
>changes to the file, but not the other way; if there is a way
>or a setting - I sure can't figure it out?
>

It's the method I mentioned. Make sure you've read the section in the PM user manual that describes how to configure the software for use with Capture NX. Also be aware that there's a bug with labels that's being worked out in release 4.6.1. There are a series of betas out, and the final version in due any day.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberThu 21-May-09 02:48 PM
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#31. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 30


Colorado Springs, US
          

Thanks Rick,

It's nice to know that I am close to a workable process!

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Thu 21-May-09 08:40 AM
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#29. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 27


Canton, US
          

These kinds of things are what convinced me to standardize on Lightroom. You don't have to keep track of such details, the program just does it for you. Therefore you can concentrate more on photography instead of the mechanics of maintaining your image library and working out compatibility between different programs.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Thu 21-May-09 04:40 PM
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#32. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 29


Colorado Springs, US
          

Steve-
If you standardize your preferences between Photo Mechanic and Capture NX up-front, then this is not something you need to worry about.

There is no doubt that LR is an excellent program, but it essentially forces you down a certain path with respect to image editing and cataloging. There is nothing wrong with the LR approach, but once you're in, it is hard to get out without doing a significant amount of tinkering.

-Jason


Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 21-May-09 06:06 PM
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#33. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 32


Colorado Springs, US
          

It's actually pretty easy to switch around if you adopt a DNG format. Other programs, like Expression Media, can read the metadata and keywords that LR (or Bridge) embeds. Since I have a copy of that program, I've kept a parallel catalog of my files in it. It's incredibly simple to do. Photo Mechanic also reads all this info and can also update. Both programs display the embedded DNG previews, so that's not a problem, either.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Thu 21-May-09 06:39 PM
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#34. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 33


Colorado Springs, US
          

True, but I won't be converting my NEFs to DNG anytime soon.

-Jason

Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 21-May-09 09:04 PM
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#37. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 34


Colorado Springs, US
          

I know. . You'd have to get rid of that prominent "NX Rules, Dude!" tatoo.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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mikeacollins Basic MemberThu 21-May-09 09:08 PM
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#38. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 32
Thu 21-May-09 09:13 PM by mikeacollins

Kalispell, US
          

>There is nothing wrong with the
>LR approach, but once you're in, it is hard to get out without
>doing a significant amount of tinkering.

You can say pretty much the same thing for the NX approach also. Once you commit to almost any work flow changing is not easy.


Mike

------------------------------
Mysteries lie all around us, even in the most familiar things, waiting only to be perceived.
Wynn Bullock

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Fri 22-May-09 04:14 PM
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#46. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 38


Colorado Springs, US
          

Yes, absolutely. Until there is a universal RAW converter (one that reads and applies the adjustments from other software)-- and I doubt there ever will be such a program, your editor will set you down a certain path.

The only way to have a universally viewable set of images is to convert the processed RAW files to TIFF or JPEG-- as if they were a set of prints.

-Jason

Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Fri 22-May-09 11:39 PM
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#48. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 32


Canton, US
          

You're right, Jason, it ultimately comes down to preferences. What I've found, as you've noted, is that there is nothing wrong with the LR approach. In fact, I find it preferable because it is so straightforward and simple, without sacrificing quality or significant functionality over programs like PM, iMatch and NX. Me, I'd rather spend more time doing photography than tinkering with various programs. I used to do things that way, and I find LR to be much better.

BTW, I did purchase the first version of your NX book and found it to be excellent. But once I started using LR I never looked back (which is no reflection on your excellent work to provide documentation for that program.)

Maybe Rick has needled you about this also, but any thoughts of writing a similar book on using LR with a DNG workflow?

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberSat 23-May-09 03:08 AM
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#49. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 48


Colorado Springs, US
          

Steve,

I like the straight talk.
It's funny how we get emotionally attached to a work-flow or a particular piece of software and where one see light the other see dark.

I am just the opposite of you. I started with Capture 4 and loved it. Then I got a D80 which was not supported and tried NX. But found it to cumbersome and confusing. So I headed down the LR route and I just kept running into hurdles that I could not overcome.

I have spent a minimum of 10 hours a day 5-7 days a week for the past 15 years in front of a computer. Photography gets me out of that realm. When I switched to digital I fumbled with different programs trying to find a groove that minimized the "computer time".

LR does a great job for what its design is intended. However, not wanting to give up the benefits of RAW, I found myself spending too much time trying to get the RAW to look like the JPEG before I even got to make any of my own changes. I did give it a fair shot, I stuck with it from the time it came out of beta till yesterday (it's archived on my server now).

Now, with NX2 and control points, I start with RAW and it is exactly as the JPEG (right, wrong or indifferent) and I spend just a couple of minutes on my "keepers" and just a bit more for the ones I want to print! It is easy, fast and with Jason's book & videos I have been able to get "it"! Add in Picture Controls and non-destructive edits I am now confident & comfortable with RAW have actually turned off the JPEG function in my cameras! This is a big deal for me; as I mentioned this process was so frustrating that I actually quit shooting for a while.

I am once again "enjoying" shooting photos! I think that was the point of us all buying cameras?

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Sat 23-May-09 10:14 AM
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#51. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 49


Canton, US
          

Chris,

I truly understand where you're coming from since I've been there myself. It seems like people either love Lightroom or they think it is lacking.

I think you hit the nail on the head with your desire to make the RAW file look just like the JPEG. IMHO, that is the real strength of NX: since it is a Nikon program, its default settings give you almost exactly what you'd see in the JPEG straight out of the camera and then you can tweak from there. One way to look at it, which was an "aha moment" for me, was that there was nothing sacred about a Nikon JPEG (heresy, some would say!) To me, one of the biggest reasons for shooting RAW to begin with is to end up with a picture that looks the way I want it to look, not just another path to duplicate what the camera gives me in a JPEG.

When I was using Capture 4 and the first version of NX, the slowness of the software and less than intuitive controls (along with its essentially zero capabilities as a cataloging program) caused me to look elsewhere. When I tried LR I felt right at home. Using just one program I can build a very thorough keyworded database of images, import/view/sort/rename/rate/prioritize/whatever pictures while still in the RAW state; create virtual copies or separate collections of keepers to easily locate them in the future, edit them to my heart's content while they are still in the same database, and export copies as tifs to use any other programs for more advanced manipulation if needed. Using NX, I found that I *needed* Jason's excellent book to show me how to use the program, but with LR things were much more intuitive for me.

The real power of LR, IMO, is its very capable preset and batch processing capability. Like a certain "look" for a picture? Simply download any of a gazillion presets that are available, or create one yourself... then quickly (and nondestructively) apply it to one or dozens of images with a few clicks. And you can easily place several versions of the same image on the screen side by side to see what works best for you.

LR has a similar function to NX control points in its Targeted Adjustment Tool, and it works quite well. But if you want the full use of the U-Point thing, you can get a Lightroom plug-in version of Viveza, which brings that to the table as well. (Though you would be doing those edits to an automatically created tif rather than to the original RAW file.)

That's the path I went down, anyway. As true with all things, your mileage may vary!

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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csgaraglino Silver Member Charter MemberSat 23-May-09 01:44 PM
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#52. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 51
Sat 23-May-09 01:46 PM by csgaraglino

Colorado Springs, US
          

>One way to look at it, which was an "aha moment" for
>me, was that there was nothing sacred about a Nikon JPEG
>(heresy, some would say!)

For me, my "aha moment" was realizing that at my experience level, the camera currently being smarter than I, produces a better photo than I can from the RAW image. Each day I work with images I am getting close to what the camera produces and someday might actually catch up - but for now it is still a better foundation that I.

Picture Controls are changing that. Now that LR supports them, it is getting better at the starting point.

>LR has a similar function to NX control points in its Targeted
>Adjustment Tool, and it works quite well. But if you want
>the full use of the U-Point thing, you can get a Lightroom
>plug-in version of Viveza, which brings that to the table as
>well. (Though you would be doing those edits to an
>automatically created tif rather than to the original RAW
>file.)

I have thought of using Viveza, but that's another $150 - if I added up all the money I spent on software that I am not using I could get a smoking fast lens!

Anyway, It seems that these tools are leaning to editing the RAW and using the RAW's JPEG. LR will catchup, it's just a matter if PM can get their cataloging app out before then.

I think what Adobe should do is buy the Camera Bits company, dump Bridge and integrate PM in its place. LightRoom, Photoshop & Elements and NX2 would all have a common communications component allowing for the best of all three worlds to merge - now that would be a workshop worth attending!

Jason, think about what that book would look like!

---
Regards,
Chris Sgaraglino
Outdoor Studios Photography || on Flickr || on Google+

  

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TiggerGTO Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Feb 2006Wed 20-May-09 03:15 PM
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#22. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 13


Apex, US
          

I will echo Neil's remark: Don't use the eval version unless you are prepared to buy it.

At first glance, it seems terribly expensive for a "front end" program. However, without it, I would have given up on NX2 a long time ago. The program is fast and extremely good at everything that it does.

There were rumblings of Camera Bits coming out with cataloging function, either as a separate app or as part of Photo Mechanic. It's been quite a while since Kirk has said anything more than "we're still working on it, but it's not close." I really hope they come out with something though.

Danny
A Nikonian in North Carolina

  

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Gray Fox Basic MemberThu 21-May-09 07:27 PM
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#35. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 22


Cape Coral, US
          


>There were rumblings of Camera Bits coming out with cataloging
>function, either as a separate app or as part of Photo
>Mechanic. It's been quite a while since Kirk has said
>anything more than "we're still working on it, but it's
>not close." I really hope they come out with something
>though.

I'm with Danny on this, hoping the cataloging feature arrives sooner rather than later.

Will


- To a creative photographer, reality is vastly overrated

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Thu 21-May-09 07:30 PM
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#36. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 35


Colorado Springs, US
          

Me too.
This has been in the Camerabits forums since 2006...

-Jason

Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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Kirk Baker Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Feb 2009Fri 22-May-09 06:13 AM
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#41. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 36


US
          

Jason,

We're definitely working on our cataloging solution. It should be really nice when it's done. It is our highest priority at this time.

-Kirk

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 22-May-09 02:59 PM
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#45. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 41


Colorado Springs, US
          

I think a lot of people will be pleased to see that come on the market. There's a real need for a modern, easy to use cataloging program that complements other applications well.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Sat 23-May-09 04:00 AM
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#50. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 41


Colorado Springs, US
          

I will gladly pay for that upgrade when it comes out!

-Jason

Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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Kirk Baker Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Feb 2009Fri 22-May-09 06:06 AM
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#39. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

Neil,

>>> I'm wondering what function PM fulfills between
>iMatch & NX2?
>
>What
>..Animals
>....Birds
>......Osprey
>
>They appear as a windows tree list, with collapsible branches.
> If you have hundreds of categories, this is the only sensible
>approach.
>
>You can enter them as keywords in PM, like this:
>
>What.Animals.Birds.Osprey
>
>That is a rather cumbersome keyword, and if you do Who, What ,
>Where type keywording, as you most probably do, either
>formally or by accident, it is rather tedious in PM. For that
>reason, I'm not sure how much keywording I want to try to do
>in PM. I am now doing a basic set, to make sure I have
>something, and try to allocate the time after my iMatch import
>to refine it (I never get caught up though- a continual work
>in process)

Please try the Structured Keywords dialog/panel. It contains a hierarchical keyword structure that is very nice and you can choose the path separator character (default is '|') so your example would be What | Animals | Birds | Osprey

And moreover, if you knew that you wanted an Osprey, you could simply use the Find field to search for Osprey and quickly get the path selected. A couple more button clicks and your photo would have that path in it.

HTH,

-Kirk

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Fri 22-May-09 12:06 PM
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#43. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 39
Fri 22-May-09 02:50 PM by nrothschild

US
          

Kirk, nice to see you here as a member

I am aware of the Structured Keywords list. The documentation is confusing, somewhat ambiguous, and needs some editing to fix some significant errors and missing/garbled text. For example, above you are talking about a "path separator character", but it does not appear on the structured keyword panel nor could I find a reference to that term in the help. I also have great difficulty trying to understand the concepts, and reconciling what appears on the screen. Obviously this is not the venue for PM support, just a comment to suggest I find the feature quite confusing

Edit: I missed the path separator entry in the 4.6 update list...

Having over 800 categories, and still in the process of organizing those categories in iMatch, the only practical way I see to integrate those categories into PM would be some sort of import from a list exported from iMatch, and that would have to be done on a regular basis as the iMatch list evolves. Having looked at your sample structured keyword file I think I would have to write some software to do that, and never found the time to do so. Your import file requires tabbed and indented lists, verses iMatch's simpler separator characters.

_________________________________
Neil

Nikonians Team
My Gallery

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Fri 22-May-09 04:15 PM
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#47. "RE: Adobe Bridge vs. Photo Mechanic"
In response to Reply # 39


Colorado Springs, US
          

I suspected that PM had such functionality.

Thanks, Kirk!

-Jason

Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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