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Subject: "NX2 or ACR?" Previous topic | Next topic
Rohinton_Mehta Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Feb 2002Sun 01-Feb-09 05:18 AM
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"NX2 or ACR?"


Mumbai, IN
          

A lot has been said and written about NX2. I do not use NX2 but I did purchase and use NX. I found it very good, but very very slow. Eventually I gave it up for ACR in Photoshop CS3. I find ACR to be very good, fast and convenient to use (much easier than NX).

I now have a much superior computer with 4GB of RAM. Even then I am apprehensive of investing in NX2. I admit that there may be some advantage in using the NX2 over ACR but, tell me, can you notice the difference? Many well-known names (including John Shaw) use ACR and strongly recommend it. Why should one change to NX2 (if at all) if one is satisfied with ACR? How many Nikonians use ACR and how many use NX2?

Rohinton

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sun 01-Feb-09 08:11 AM
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#1. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 01-Feb-09 08:13 AM by robsb

San Jose, US
          

There has already been an extensive thread on this topic in this forum.Use the search function. I use CS4 Extended but do all of my RAw processing in NX2. I believe i get better and quicker results as opposed to ACR, primarily because NX2 can see all the settings i made on my camera and use them in processing the RAW file so i start out with exactly what I saw in my camera display, not an approximation. Photoshop is a very powerful tool and if you know your way around in it you can do amazing things, but I still prefer the NX2 RAW processor. NX2 is a major improvement over NX and is a lot faster. The interface has been redesigned and Nik Color Effects filters can be seamlessly integrated with the program. If you are satisfied with ACR don't change, but a number of Nikonians lately have tried NX2 and were so surprised with the results they are now using NX2. If you go to dpreview and look at any of the current camera reviews they have a section that compares results of using ACR, Nikon SW amd Bibble. and Nikon wins.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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FedererPhoto Registered since 22nd Mar 2008Sun 01-Feb-09 03:45 PM
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#3. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 1


Minneapolis, US
          

I would also not underestimate the file management issues between LR and NX. NX allows you to do everything with one file. LR requires a ton of connected and dependent, but separate files.


St. Paul and Minneapolis Wedding Photographer - Minnesota Photography - http://www.federerphotography.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sun 01-Feb-09 03:55 PM
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#4. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 3


Colorado Springs, US
          

LR allows you to do everything NX will do within one single file: a DNG. That file format contains an embedded preview, metadata, rating info, etc. If you choose to keep things in a NEF format, you need one very small file (an XMP sidecar) to accompany it. No big deal. Both programs require you to move to a different format if you choose to use the plug-ins found in Photoshop, with the exception of Nik Color Efex.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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FedererPhoto Registered since 22nd Mar 2008Sun 01-Feb-09 06:54 PM
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#10. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 4


Minneapolis, US
          

>LR allows you to do everything NX will do within one single
>file: a DNG.

Close, but Nope.

There is nothing like 'layers' in LR.

(I'm in no way saying LR is junk, but NX is simply better with 'file management' than LR)


St. Paul and Minneapolis Wedding Photographer - Minnesota Photography - http://www.federerphotography.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sun 01-Feb-09 07:58 PM
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#11. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 10


Colorado Springs, US
          

Rather than come back with something that NX doesn't do on this front that Lightroom does support within its file structure, I'm just going to say that both are good products and merit investigation.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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FedererPhoto Registered since 22nd Mar 2008Sun 01-Feb-09 07:59 PM
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#12. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 11


Minneapolis, US
          

>Rather than come back with something that NX doesn't do on
>this front that Lightroom does support within its file
>structure, I'm just going to say that both are good products
>and merit investigation.

I certainly can agree with that. ;0)


St. Paul and Minneapolis Wedding Photographer - Minnesota Photography - http://www.federerphotography.com

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sun 01-Feb-09 01:17 PM
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#2. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          

A lot has changed over the last few years with both software programs. At one time ACR had the edge on speed, but needed some calibration to get reds and oranges looking right and lacked local adjustments. NX had what many thought to be better initial colors and the virtue of local editing capabilities, even though they weren't at the raw level. NX was thought to give better intial results, with ACR requiring more fiddling. Unfortunately, a lot of what you see and read on the internet is based on years-old information.

If you compare the latest versions of both programs (NX2 and CS4 version of ACR), you'll find a convergance on several issues, with some of the same original issues remaining. The revised color profiles that now come packaged with ACR (or LR) yield color results identical to NX (at least in my opinion). ACR has local editing capabilities that work well (and operate at the raw level), although control points are still slightly easier to use. Sharpening controls within ACR are more sophisticated and now include options for doing your output sharpening from there if you want to completely avoid Photoshop. On the other hand, NX2 has a slightly cleaner interface (still a lot messier than ACR) and the new selection point feature is pretty neat. ACR still has a significant upper hand in terms of working with large quantities of images. Its speed and ease of applying settings to large quantities of files completely nullifies any issue regarding the use of in-camera settings in my opinion. In fact, I consider it a virtue that I don't need to flip my camera between different color profiles in the field to avoid having to slowly batch a bunch of images in NX.

The bottom line is that both of these programs will produce excellent results at this point. Which one your prefer will depend on your priorities, and my recommendation is to try both. The thing is, though, that since you're contemplating a potential purchase, you should compare the CS4 version of ACR rather than the CS3 one. There are enough differences to make it very worthwhile. While you're at it, compare browsers, too. Working with Bridge is very different than the NX browser (or View NX), so much so that hardcore NX users usually end up investing in Photo Mechanic, too.

Don't do this comparison superficially, though. Many of the comparison shots I've seen on the net have been done by people who clearly don't know how to use either product correctly. The ideal thing is a combination of using the products combined with reading good materials (not help manuals that come with the product). You might potentially spend slightly more money, but getting the right tool for your needs will make that small initial investment very worthwhile. Two reference sources I'd recommend are Jason Odell's eBook on NX2 (www.luminescentphoto.com/nx2guide.html) and Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS4 by the late Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe (available on Amazon, as well as at local bookstores). As part of this exercise, make sure you run through sample scenarios you're likely to see, including single-image edits and situations where the numbers of images are larger. Also think about whether or not you might use a non-Nikon camera for any raw conversions (for example, a higher-end point and shoot that outputs raw files). Do you want to use one program for raw conversion or two? There are a lot of things to consider.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Sun 01-Feb-09 04:38 PM
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#5. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Rick,

Great post and very well worded. I am currently using NX and CS3 and have decided it is time to upgrade at least one of these. Like many I hate the clumbsy NX interface but I love the results for the standard, vivid and landscape profiles, and I love the control points. ACR in CS3 is fine for me with people pictures but landscapes I prefer NX for its contrast and red hues and generally superior results over CS3's ACR. If CS4 now has profiles packaged in it that are closer to NX than CS4, then that is the deal breaker for my next upgade. I would prefer one converter to simplify things. I can later then decide if NX2 is worth sticking with for my next software upgade since my biggest nit with NX as far as results is not having a highlight recovery slider. As for PhotoMechanic, that has been my browser since 2005.

Albert J Valentino
Nikonian Moderator Emeritus

Vantage Point Images
Mastery of Composition is the Key to Great Photography

  

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DrJay32 Gold Member Awarded for his multiple written contributions for the Resources and eZine Nikonian since 12th Mar 2003Sun 01-Feb-09 04:49 PM
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#6. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 5


Colorado Springs, US
          

Albert-
NX2 offers shadow and highlight recovery now, and the interface is cleaned up quite a bit.

-Jason

Jason P. Odell
Colorado Nikonian
Author, The Photographer's Guide to Capture NX2

www.luminescentphoto.com

My Nikonians Blog

Listen to The Image Doctors

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Sun 01-Feb-09 04:58 PM
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#8. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

Jason, I know that NX2 has this. When I said that about NX I was referring to version 1. Shadow and Highlight recovery are extremely useful tools. I did play with these in the NX2 trial version but passed on purchase at the time since it locked up 3-4x and occasionally gave me some crazy error messages. I just assumed it was one of those things that happens with early version of most software on some computers and would be corrected in time (but Bibble 4, all versions, never liked my computer). But, I never had a pressing need to upgrade NX to NX2 and money is tight these days I can only upgrade one for the moment

Albert J Valentino
Nikonian Moderator Emeritus

Vantage Point Images
Mastery of Composition is the Key to Great Photography

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sun 01-Feb-09 06:49 PM
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#9. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 8


Colorado Springs, US
          

The good news is that both products are very good and both will produce good results. Which one is best for you is a personal decision.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 03-Feb-09 02:47 AM
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#27. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 8


San Jose, US
          

Albert you probably did not have the proper MS files loaded if you are using a Windows machine. Many people who are complaining about NX2 being slow do not have Visual Studio C++ 2005 redistributables including SP1 loaded on their machines. Also you need to load Net Framework 2.0 and at least 3.0, although it is up to 3.5 SP1 now. When NX2 was developed they used the C++ 2005 version. With these files installed it literally flies.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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FedererPhoto Registered since 22nd Mar 2008Tue 03-Feb-09 01:42 PM
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#29. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 27


Minneapolis, US
          

>Albert you probably did not have the proper MS files loaded
>if you are using a Windows machine. Many people who are
>complaining about NX2 being slow do not have Visual Studio C++
>2005 redistributables including SP1 loaded on their machines.
>Also you need to load Net Framework 2.0 and at least 3.0,
>although it is up to 3.5 SP1 now. When NX2 was developed they
>used the C++ 2005 version. With these files installed it
>literally flies.

Nik should include (or at the very least, check for and notify) the files required to 'make it fly'.

I spent a few months trying to 'make it fly'. Even with top-of-the-line 8-core, wicked-fast hard-drive arrays, and 16gb of memory... it's slow as a dog. Over a minute to open, change levels on an edit, save and close.
It's so slow, I'm forced to use an inferior product (LR) in order to accomplish anything. Too bad too, NX makes life sooo much easier when it comes to file handling/archiving.


St. Paul and Minneapolis Wedding Photographer - Minnesota Photography - http://www.federerphotography.com

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Wed 04-Feb-09 07:06 AM
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#42. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 29


San Jose, US
          

I agree that NIK should install those redistributables with the program but they don't.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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danamc Gold Member Charter MemberSun 08-Feb-09 04:30 PM
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#50. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 29


Framingham, US
          

>>Albert you probably did not have the proper MS files
>loaded
>>if you are using a Windows machine. Many people who are
>>complaining about NX2 being slow do not have Visual Studio
>C++
>>2005 redistributables including SP1 loaded on their
>machines.
>>Also you need to load Net Framework 2.0 and at least 3.0,
>>although it is up to 3.5 SP1 now. When NX2 was developed
>they
>>used the C++ 2005 version. With these files installed it
>>literally flies.
>
>Nik should include (or at the very least, check for and
>notify) the files required to 'make it fly'.
>
>I spent a few months trying to 'make it fly'. Even with
>top-of-the-line 8-core, wicked-fast hard-drive arrays, and
>16gb of memory... it's slow as a dog. Over a minute to open,
>change levels on an edit, save and close.
>It's so slow, I'm forced to use an inferior product (LR) in
>order to accomplish anything. Too bad too, NX makes life sooo
>much easier when it comes to file handling/archiving.

Not sure why you are having so much difficulty with NX2 with the hardware you currently have.I have a similat system and changes are almost immediate. Try this change in your NX2 settings pulldown menu:
Settings/Preferences/Cache Settings and unclick "limit cache size". It should make things faster. Good luck!

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Tue 03-Feb-09 03:50 PM
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#31. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 27


US
          

Your explanation sounds about right and why I had problems back then with the trial version. I know I have Net Framework loaded for NX but not sure what version. I assume that if I get NX2 upgrade as a disk (about $97 from Amazon with free shipping) that it will have the extra stuff you mentioned above.

Right now I only wanted to upgrade one program so CS4 came first

Albert J Valentino
Nikonian Moderator Emeritus

Vantage Point Images
Mastery of Composition is the Key to Great Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Wed 04-Feb-09 07:12 AM
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#43. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 31


San Jose, US
          

Albert for some reason they don't. I saw it mentioned somewhere, maybe here, and checked what I had loaded. I had later versions of the C++ redistributables, but not the 2005 version nor the latest Net Framework. The trick is you need to load them all and in order. The improvement in NX2 performace is significant.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Wed 04-Feb-09 04:29 PM
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#46. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 43
Wed 04-Feb-09 05:00 PM by Valentino

US
          

Bob,

I checked my computer and I had Net Framework 3.1.2 loaded. I just updated it to 3.5. Also, I have Visual C++ 200 Redistributable version 8.0.5

Edited to add: It could be my imagination but it seems that my ability to open the Adjustments in NX (1.3.5), like Picture Controls, Raw Adjustments, is noticable faster now that I upgraded to Net Framework 3.5. It was not uncommon for me to have to click more than once to get these to open/respond but at the moment they seem to be responding unusually fast --- meaning normal speed.

Albert J Valentino
Nikonian Moderator Emeritus

Vantage Point Images
Mastery of Composition is the Key to Great Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Thu 05-Feb-09 12:53 AM
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#47. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 46


San Jose, US
          

Albert you need Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable and the SP1 for that. I can't see version numbers, but the dates of my files are 8/8/07, and 9/9/08. You should still add netframework 2.0 and its service pack even though you have later versions.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Fri 06-Feb-09 03:15 PM
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#48. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 47


US
          

It looks like when I upgraded Netframework to 3.5 that is also upgraded the Service Packs and Netframework 2. The way I know this and know the versions of what is installed on my computer (PC with XP) is to go to the Control Panel, then Add or Remove Programs. It then lists all the software installed on my computer and when I click on the name "click here for support information", for example, Framework 3.xxx a box pops up, tells me the version and a link to upgrade. All the other SP and Framework state "Installed on 2/4/09" so that is how I know all else is upgraded. Visual C++ 2005 is 8.0.56336 but no update link and it also states that it is 'rarely used'. So I think I am good to go.

Here is a link to get the latest version, 3.5 of Netframework
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/default.aspx

Albert J Valentino
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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Sat 07-Feb-09 08:35 AM
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#49. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 48


San Jose, US
          

Albert thanks for the reminder on where to find version numbers in Control Panel.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 03-Feb-09 02:38 AM
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#26. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 2


San Jose, US
          

Rick I think a pretty fair assessment of CS4. I agree having both is better than either /or. Both have their place in our photography tool kit.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

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rhom Registered since 06th Aug 2008Tue 03-Feb-09 03:53 PM
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#33. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 2


Sacramento, US
          

Hi Rick,

I have been following this thread with great interest as I have been learning NX2 and comparing it to LR v1.4, which I own and have been using for the past year.

Did I understand correctly that LR v2 now includes the NIkon color profiles that are included in the CS4 version of ACR? If so, maybe I should upgrade my LR to make this a better comparison. My attraction to NX2 has been how good my D700 NEFs look (vs. LR v1.4) and how little further editing I have needed.

Thanks for all of your comments, I have learned a lot!

Best Wishes,

Rick

Nikon user for 40 years.
F-Ftn, F3, F4S, F90, F100, D5100, D700

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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michael1778 Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jan 2006Tue 03-Feb-09 04:09 PM
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#35. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 33


Clemmons, US
          

Yes the camera color profiles for ACR 5.2 and LR 2.2 are the very same.

  

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rhom Registered since 06th Aug 2008Wed 04-Feb-09 12:02 AM
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#41. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 35


Sacramento, US
          

Hi Michael,

Thank you for your confirmation! Looks like its time for me to upgrade my LR to v2.x

Thanks again,

Rick

Nikon user for 40 years.
F-Ftn, F3, F4S, F90, F100, D5100, D700

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006Sun 01-Feb-09 04:57 PM
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#7. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 0


Knoxville, US
          

I've used both ACR and NX and in the final equation I still believe that NX produces a better overall result. However, ACR is very close to catching up and in some areas surpasses NX. With the camera profiles being added to ACR the difference really got small. The only thing, editing wise, that I like about NX more than ACR is the edit steps. It took me years but I'm very close to finally just using ACR only.

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Sun 01-Feb-09 08:54 PM
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#13. "NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Okay, I just bought CS4 as a download from Adobe with a 15% NAPP coupon. I downloaded CS4 and then did the update to get the Nikon Picture Control profiles. I did only a few side-by-side tests with the different profiles and they are close enough that any differences is just nit pick. I wanted a good excuse to get CS4 now. A few years ago when I had CS2 I decided to update every other version but I broke down and got CS3 last spring. Of course CS4 was not far behind so I should have waited longer or acted earlier. I did not want to repeat that mistake.

A quick tip that I learned from a CS4 video I just watched. If you take the Nikon Camera Profiles in ACR and save each one individually as a preset, then if you are in Bridge you can select one or more files in a folder, then right click and select 'Develop Settings'. Your presets will be shown and you can then select any of the presets (I saved four of them Standard, Landscape, Vivid, Portrait) and apply them to all the selected images. This will do two things. First, it will render all the selected images in Bridge to update to that profile so you can see how each image will look with that setting. It is real easy to double check several profile like Standard or Landscape... to see what out what works best (Standard is what I use for about 80% of my work, then Vivid and Landscape for most of the rest) Second, if you then open any of those files in ACR it automatically applies that Preset/Profile/Picture Control to the file saving a step to apply it again. Neat!!!

As for my needs. It seems that one of the two things I personally loved about NX is now in Photoshop -- the color profiles with decent reds...contrast.... This means I will be using ACR more often especially for pano groups, double processing a RAW files.... However, the other thing I love about NX is the Control Points. So I suspect that until I will still be using NX for most of my one-off work because I find that Control Points is just so incredibly useful. This may change down the road if/when I invest in Viveza but at the moment I can't justify that expense, especially since I also bought Portrait Porfessional Studio 8 recently. I am just glad that my hardware needs are fine and no new lenses or cameras are planned in 2009 and possibly 2010.

Albert J Valentino
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sun 01-Feb-09 09:04 PM
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#14. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 13


Colorado Springs, US
          

I do the same thing with color profile presets. Another thing that's helpful is to create presets that are combinations of the color profiles and sharpening settings. For example, I have some set up for portraits and landscapes that not only apply the color profile, but also sharpening optimized for those subjects. I also have one set-up for the Camera Standard profile (I also use it for a similar percentage of shots) that's coupled with a sharpening setting for fine details. It's my camera default and gets applied automatically when I download new images. This process makes the whole workflow very easy. For example, I just got back from a family trip. I selected the images taken of my family, and then applied the portrait preset I just mentioned. Everything got taken care of very quickly and easily.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Sun 01-Feb-09 11:00 PM
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#15. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 14


US
          



That sounds great and an ideal way to save time. I am for anything that save time on the little tedious tasks that streamline workflow.

Albert J Valentino
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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Mon 02-Feb-09 01:03 AM
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#16. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 13
Mon 02-Feb-09 01:05 AM by Valentino

US
          

I just PP a fall foliage landscape capture that I never got to last fall using ACR in CS4 with a Nikon camera profile. I must say that it did nail the warm colors which was one of my two biggest nits with ACR in the past (the other was contrast). I was easily able to get a look I liked quickly with a few other adjustments in CS4. With a three year old computer I prefer having fewer programs open that eat up memory. With the added controls I did not even miss control points from NX.

ACR has come a long way and I am finally happy with it


Albert J Valentino
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Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006Mon 02-Feb-09 12:28 PM
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#17. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 16


Knoxville, US
          

Also be sure to look at the adjustment brush and the color adjustment slider (cannot remember the exact title but it's near the adjustment brush in the toolbar). It's very similar to control points and in some ways a little easier to use.

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Mon 02-Feb-09 01:00 PM
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#18. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 17


US
          

Thanks. I had not noticed the Adjustment brush until you pointed it out. That was an unexpected surprise and a really useful tool that will likely make me incline to ACR for RAw even more. I think the other tool you are referring to is the Targeted Adjustment Tool which I will take a closer look at. Great new stuff and these things make me finally like ACR!!! I have been using Nikon Capture since late 2004 and NX since I bought my D300 a year ago. I am glad the Photoshop has finally closed the converter gap for Nikon cameras

I ordered Scott Kelby's CS4 for Digital Photographers last night from Amazon --- great book that I have picked up for CS2 and CS3 as a handy reference. I considered Bruce Frasiers Camera RAW CS4 but passed this time. I did get this CS2 copy in 2005 and I am sure there is lots of new and improved info/tools to learn.

Albert J Valentino
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michael1778 Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Jan 2006Mon 02-Feb-09 08:40 PM
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#23. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 18


Clemmons, US
          

I am curious why you passed on the Real World Camera Raw for CS4 book. I thought the CS2 and CS3 versions were very good.

As a point of information, luminous-landscape has some videos for purchase on ACR and LR. In case you wanted to take a peek and see if any would be valuable to you.

Has Scott Kelby toned down his humor in his latest books? Personally, I feel like his skills are masked by his oddball written outbursts. Sure we can have fun, but I'd like the author to maintain focus on the topics at hand. I hope he dialed that back a bit in these latest books.

Good luck with your new software updates.

Best Regards,
Michael

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Mon 02-Feb-09 09:55 PM
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#24. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 23


US
          

I am curious why you passed on the Real World Camera Raw for CS4 book. I thought the CS2 and CS3 versions were very good.

I want to go through one book at a time and focus, pun intended, on what's new in general in CS4. So I will first look at Kelbys updated rewrite of ACR and Bridge, plus some of the new features I might want to use. Frasers Camera RAW book is about 440 pages and I suspect that since I am not new to all this that it is a lot to go through to grab those few new pearls. So I decided to first get the Kelby Cookbook -- which is what I think of that series, a cookbook with side explanations.

As a point of information, luminous-landscape has some videos for purchase on ACR and LR. In case you wanted to take a peek and see if any would be valuable to you.

I am a NAPP member and they have plenty of short on-line videos that help. I already went through a few already. It is not a bad deal to join and it can pay for itself with free shipping from B&H, yearly CD with video tip, and discounts on software. I saved $30 yesterday buying CS4 with one of their coupons.

Has Scott Kelby toned down his humor in his latest books?

No, CS3 of Photogrpahers was filled will dry humor that I could live with less of. But I am sure he is laughing all the way to the bank!!!

Albert J Valentino
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Mastery of Composition is the Key to Great Photography

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Mon 02-Feb-09 01:12 PM
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#19. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 17


Colorado Springs, US
          

There's also the grad filter adjustment that works well. By reversing the adjustments of the grad tool (use the opposite value) and using the brush, it's easy to remove areas that you don't want affected by the grad filter. For example, if you use a -0.5 exposure setting with the grad filter, use a +0.5 setting with the brush to remove selected areas from the grad filters effects. The same principles also apply to the equivalent controls in LR.

Incidentally, I think it's worthwhile using the new Release Candidate versions of ACR 5.3 and LR 2.3. They have continued tweaking of the performance of these local editing controls, and they're working faster and smoother in those releases. I haven't seen any issues with them, but since they're not the final version (but planned to be), there could be some issues.

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Camera_Raw_5.3

http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Lightroom_2.3

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Mon 02-Feb-09 02:25 PM
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#20. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 19


US
          

Good stuff. You guys are full of good news. I will be looking forward to ACR 5.3 since it seems that grad filter, at least on my machine, is sluggish and tricky to position.

I was never a fan of LR since 1) I loved NX and 2) it seemed to be a pain to use as I had to import files here and there and if I made some corrections by opening a file from somewhere else, like from PM, that it would not be in the same folder when I used LR browswer. I admit that I did not put time into the trial versions because of the above two things but now I might be more open to it down the road. For now I have more than enough to learn with CS4's new features

Albert J Valentino
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nwcs Silver Member Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in various areas, including Landscape and Wildlife Photography Nikonian since 15th Jan 2006Mon 02-Feb-09 03:41 PM
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#21. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 20


Knoxville, US
          

BTW, one tip for specialized blending work (instead of their grad nd) is to open as a smart object, then copy the smart object into another smart object on a new layer. Then make an adjustment to the top version and use masks to blend. You can get a lot of great effects that way without altering anything permanently. In a real way, it's a form of edit steps.

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Mon 02-Feb-09 08:32 PM
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#22. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 21


US
          

Thanks for the tip. I never played that much with Smart Objects and I know I should master that to use more as my standard set of tools. For skys that might be far off I do often double process the RAW file, layer and blends the best of each adjusting the opacity of the brushes as needed. ACR makes double processing the raw easier since with NX it always created a new tiff file which I had to remember to delete.

Albert J Valentino
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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 03-Feb-09 02:52 AM
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#28. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 22


San Jose, US
          

Albert the main advantage of Smart Objects in CS4 is that you can apply filters and then make adjustments to them after you applied them, rather than starting over. In that way it does mimic edit steps in NX2. Down side it does increase file size but not as much as just doing standard layers instead of smart ones.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Tue 03-Feb-09 03:18 PM
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#30. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 28


US
          

Bob, you are right and I know this and need to start doing just that. I only bought CS3 about 9 months ago so that is when I had this feature available but didn't really use it. The reason/excuse is simply old habits die hard/stick to what works with regualr layer blending. But, it is time to get with the program, pun intended

Albert J Valentino
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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Wed 04-Feb-09 03:39 PM
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#45. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 30


US
          

I played a little with Smart Objects and Smart filters this morning. Smart Objects made it easier to double process a RAW file. Smart Filters is nice for all the reasons you already know.

However, I did run into one snag trying to do something with SF that I do a lot, use the Shadow/Highlight tool. Yes, it works fine as a SF but the way I generally use this tool is to first convert to Lab color space. Then I select the Lightness channel and use S/H on that channel only. This is not possible with a Smart Filter. I can use S/H but not with any single channel in Lab or RGB. I guess the next best thing is to change the blending mode to Lumninosity and use S/H as a Smart filter that way. However, you can create a Curves Adjustment layer in Lab as a Smart Filter to work on the L, a, and b, channels separately which can be very useful especially with low contrast images. But, using a SF on the Lightness channel with a S/H can't be done, AFAIK

Albert J Valentino
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Tue 03-Feb-09 03:53 PM
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#32. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 28


Colorado Springs, US
          

A fine point is that there are two things here with the "smart" label. Smart objects and smart filters. Smart filters are just you implied - they allow you to go back in and redo the parameters. Smart objects are a different beast and pretty slick. I can process a raw file in either LR or ACR and then export it CS4 as a smart object for further processing. I can then add layers, including things like plug-ins that are applied as layers (Nik Silver Efex might be a good example of a popular one). If I later find out that my original raw conversion parameters were a bit off, I can reopen the orginal raw file, update the conversion parameters via ACR, and not have redo all my layers. This is an extremely nice feature and one worth looking at as part of your workflow.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Wed 04-Feb-09 07:15 AM
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#44. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 32


San Jose, US
          

Rick you are right I got sloppy in my terminology. Smart Objects are greatly improved in CS4.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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robsb Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded for his expertise in CNX2 and his always amicable and continuous efforts to help members Laureate Ribbon awarded for winning in the Best of Nikonians 2013 images Photo Contest Nikonian since 23rd Aug 2006Tue 03-Feb-09 02:36 AM
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#25. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 13


San Jose, US
          

Albert Viveza give you color control points but not the more powerful selection control points that are in NX2. I have CS4 Extended and I still prefer NX2 for my RAW processing. If I need to do anything special like pano's merging multiple images, etc, then I crank up CS4, otherwise NX2 will give me results I can produce in CS4 but more quickly and with a lot less effort. Selection Control points really make doing amazing stuff easy.

Bob Baldassano
My Nikonians Gallery

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the
camera"

Retirement is a gift of time - Don't waste it!

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Tue 03-Feb-09 03:56 PM
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#34. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 25


US
          

For the most part that is what I was doing with NX and CS3. NX was a pain to use compared to ACR in AC3 but I spend less time overall getting the look I wanted and the colors were always right with NX. The only thing I missed in NX for my work was highlight and shadow recovery sliders which I know NX2 has.

For the moment I need to get up to speed with CS4. I am not ready to abandone NX nor have I discounted NX2 for the future. I like the new adjustment tool in CS4's ACR but I also like how I can go back and remove a control point in NX which is not the case (AFAIK at the moment) with the Adjustment tool in ACR which seems to only allow removing the last step

Albert J Valentino
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Tue 03-Feb-09 04:16 PM
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#36. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 34


Colorado Springs, US
          

If you're talking about the ACR equivalent of control points (which are the brush and graduated filter adjustments), you can pick any of them and delete them. There's nothing that limits you to the last one. Simply activate a new adjustment and you'll see all the prior ones active on the screen. Select the one you want to change or delete, and then take that action. This is also the case with LR2.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Tue 03-Feb-09 04:36 PM
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#37. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 36


US
          

Rick, that is exactly what I was referring to. I had hoped that was the case but was not sure since I have only casually played with it in the short time I have had this version. My book is on the way but I am glad that is the case.

BTW, how do you get rid on a previous point. I see how I can call up all the previous ones, then click on erase and selectively remove part of it with the brush. Is there a way to simply delete all the work done with one of the adjustments or does one need to 'show mask' then under delete run the brush across the masked region?

Albert J Valentino
Nikonian Moderator Emeritus

Vantage Point Images
Mastery of Composition is the Key to Great Photography

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Tue 03-Feb-09 06:08 PM
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#38. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 37


Colorado Springs, US
          

It's much simpler than that. If you see a point you want to delete (indicated by an open circle), click on it. You'll then see the center fill in, indicating it's the active point and can be edited. Hit the delete key on your keyboard, and it's gone. If you're just trying to modify your previous settings, the same holds true, except you make slider adjustments rather than hitting delete, and then select another point to adjust or select another of the icons at the top of the ACR screen (like the zoom or hand tools).

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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Valentino Gold Member Awarded for high level skills in landscape and wildlife photography Nikonian since 04th Dec 2004Tue 03-Feb-09 07:36 PM
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#39. "RE: NX profiles in ACR"
In response to Reply # 38


US
          

Hit the delete key on your keyboard, and it's gone

Duh. I tried everything but that and right clicked like a madman. Never considere dhitting delete to delete.

The more I play with this, the more I like it. Significant and useful improvements in CS4.

Albert J Valentino
Nikonian Moderator Emeritus

Vantage Point Images
Mastery of Composition is the Key to Great Photography

  

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robb Basic MemberTue 03-Feb-09 07:44 PM
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#40. "RE: NX2 or ACR?"
In response to Reply # 0


Central Valley, CA, US
          

I was using Capture 4, then NX, then LR1, then a combination of all of them.. before taking some images into Photoshop for further editing where necessary.

My main sticking point with LR1 and ACR was the muddy, dull rendering of reds in the images. They just did not seem to "pop" liks the same image would in NX.

Now, with the Color Profiles available in LR2, I have almost stopped using Capture NX altogether. LR2 is providing as good a raw conversion as NX did, but IMO the LR interface, modes of operation, and speed make it much more efficient to get virtually the same output quality.

Best Regards,
Rob

http://www.robbohningphotography.com
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands. -- Psalm 19:1

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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