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Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR TOOLS - Hardware & Software Digital postprocessing & workflow (Public) topic #48490
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Subject: "Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!..." Previous topic | Next topic
plc001 Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Sep 2008Thu 09-Oct-08 12:25 AM
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"Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"


TampaBay, US
          

So, I take my pics to be printed and the tech question me to see if I was a professional. I figured, great what a compliment, but then she will not sell me my pics!!!!

All I did was crop a family member and put her in a digital background. It was not even that good. But they stated it 'seems professional' and I did not have a copy right release.

Any of you have this issue?

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
jimkelly
09th Oct 2008
1
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
Noel Holland Platinum Member
09th Oct 2008
2
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
plc001 Silver Member
09th Oct 2008
3
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
Ferguson Silver Member
10th Oct 2008
4
     Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
michaelhager
13th Oct 2008
6
          Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
plc001 Silver Member
13th Oct 2008
7
          Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
elcee Silver Member
15th Oct 2008
8
          Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
Ferguson Silver Member
15th Oct 2008
9
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
sabre Silver Member
11th Oct 2008
5
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
blw Moderator
16th Oct 2008
10
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
Ferguson Silver Member
16th Oct 2008
Reply message RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally...
Ferguson Silver Member
16th Oct 2008
11

jimkelly Registered since 07th Jan 2008Thu 09-Oct-08 01:33 AM
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#1. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


farmington hills, US
          

I had to fill out a form at costco stating that the pictures were mine and copy righted by me. No problems after that

jim

Jim Kelly

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Noel Holland Platinum Member Winner in the Nikonians 10th Anniversary Photo Contest Charter MemberThu 09-Oct-08 12:46 PM
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#2. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


TH
          

Show them the original image, show them the camera number from the EXIF of the original image then show that it matches your camera. If you are the person who took the image then you are the one who owns the copyright. If that fails, write yoruself a note giving yourself permission to print your own photographs - the clerks are probably dumb enough not to figure out how ridiculous such a form is.

  

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plc001 Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Sep 2008Thu 09-Oct-08 01:21 PM
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#3. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 2


TampaBay, US
          

>If that fails, write
>yoruself a note giving yourself permission to print your own
>photographs - the clerks are probably dumb enough not to
>figure out how ridiculous such a form is.

I like that!
lol

  

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Ferguson Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004Fri 10-Oct-08 11:19 PM
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#4. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 2


Cape Coral, US
          

>Show them the original image, show them the camera number
>from the EXIF of the original image then show that it matches
>your camera.

Nonesense, read the store manager the riot act and vote with your feet, and go somewhere else.

I understand their goal, but such intrusive nonsense just doesn't merit doing business with them.

  

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michaelhager Registered since 15th Feb 2007Mon 13-Oct-08 12:50 PM
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#6. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 4


Fountain Inn, US
          

>Nonesense, read the store manager the riot act and vote with
>your feet, and go somewhere else.
>
>I understand their goal, but such intrusive nonsense just
>doesn't merit doing business with them.
>
WRONG!

Get over your own indignation and understand that this policy (in place at almost every photo lab in the world) is for your protection too.

If the clerk/manager/technician questions the origin of your image, simply and politely ask for a professional copyright release form. Fill it out and then pay for your photographs.

I once did a (non photo related) freelance job in another state. It required a large purchase of product to complete the job. When I presented my Amex card for $3,500 the card was put on hold and the clerk told to call Amex. Before that even took place, Amex was calling my cell phone and asked me if I was in California making a large purchase.

Now, if it WASN'T me, don't you think I'd be glad they checked on it and called me? Yes, it held me up for a few minutes, it was inconvenient, but I was happy to know that i was being protected from fraud.

It's exactly the same. wouldn't you rather that Costco/Walmart/CVS prevented someone from making prints of your images downloaded off the internet?

Don't rant, don't read anyone the riot act... smile and say "Thanks for appreciating my skill! Could I sign a copyright release form please?"

It's really a lot easier than walking out and looking for another source. Costs less in gas too.

C. Michael Hager
Your most important piece of photo equipment is built into your face.
www.cmhager.com/Content/photo.shtml

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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plc001 Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Sep 2008Mon 13-Oct-08 07:50 PM
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#7. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 6


TampaBay, US
          

They ask me if I was a professional, not if it was my pic. When I told them that I was not, then they refused to give me my pics.
I guess what issue was that the tech and the manager of the lab did not believe me that I took the pics.

It was Sam's. I went back to Costco where I have been using them for a while. No problems there.

  

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elcee Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Nov 2005Wed 15-Oct-08 09:41 PM
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#8. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 7


Albuquerque, US
          

I didn't read too closely - but I hope they destroyed your pics where you could watch them.

~LarryC (eLCee)

  

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Ferguson Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004Wed 15-Oct-08 11:15 PM
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#9. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 6


Cape Coral, US
          

>>I understand their goal, but such intrusive nonsense just
>>doesn't merit doing business with them.
>>
>WRONG!
>
>Get over your own indignation and understand that this policy
....
>even took place, Amex was calling my cell phone and asked me
>if I was in California making a large purchase.
>
>Now, if it WASN'T me, don't you think I'd be glad they checked
>on it and called me? Yes, it held me up for a few minutes, it
>was inconvenient, but I was happy to know that i was being
>protected from fraud.
>
>It's exactly the same. wouldn't you rather that
>Costco/Walmart/CVS prevented someone from making prints of
>your images downloaded off the internet?

I respectfully disagree. It is not the same -- Amex had a mechanism to confirm this in a reasonably objective fashion. These type of stores have some clerk with no ability (or right IMO) to judge the photographer's truth, and no ability to verify it against any kind of objective database or "call the photographer to check".

When I take a key in to a locksmith labeled "do not duplicate" I expect to be hassled, same if I took a visibly copyrighted photograph. If I take in a plain key I don't expect to be asked to prove it is to my house, especially since they have no way to tell if I was telling the truth.

If they had some reasonably objective criteria to tell if I was violating copyright I would feel differently, but they set themselves up for more false positives and false negatives than is reasonable.

I support stopping theft as well, but I also don't think we should stop people on the street because they don't look like they belong in that neighborhood -- think about that analogy, I offer that it is perhaps more close to what these labs are doing than your amex example. They are judging based purely on your looks vs. the photograph's appearance.


Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://linwoodferguson.smugmug.com

  

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sabre Silver Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Sat 11-Oct-08 09:58 AM
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#5. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Hi Pedro,

This appears to be yet another intrusive example of the lunatics running the asylum! I thoroughly understand the need to uphold the law of copyright, but what is it with these people? They work in "professional" processing labs and yet they seem to have no concept that the ordinary guy in the street has digital technology which can produce professional looking effects. They are just interfering to cover their legal position. I would vote with my feet and I would also tell the manager that he/she has to provide proof that if they have printed your picture already they have completely destroyed it from their system and their physical possession.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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blw Moderator Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas Nikonian since 18th Jun 2004Thu 16-Oct-08 04:36 PM
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#10. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 0


Richmond, US
          

Well, nobody's complained about my images yet. I guess I should be offended!

I understand the reasoning behind the action, so:

1) I'd take the compliment.
2) I'd explain that, professional or not, I took the pictures and own the copyright.
3) If necessary, I'd prove it. In my case, the files have a copyright notice embedded in them by the camera, and it has my name and cell phone number. They can check my driver's license and call the phone number. I suppose if it came to it, I could also provide the camera and serial number, but is really going to come down to that? We're not talking about an Ansel Adams or Annie Liebowitz.
4) I'd ask them what I needed to sign to agree that they're off the hook for printing MY images.

On the flip side of this, I know that someone found the somewhat hidden URL to an archive of my digital contact sheets - and then proceeded to download the entire lot of them. About 14,400 images. Now frankly I'm not sure what the heck anyone would want with those 14,400 images, since in this case they were about the first 15,000 frames I took after taking up photography seriously, and for the most part they are not worth having. But they must have downloaded - stole - them for a reason, and honestly I'd really prefer if some printer would stop them from printing them, for whatever reason. I would be considerably more upset if they were my more recent images as some of them do have a commercial value, that's not the point.

OK, someone's surely going to say "well if you didn't want them taken you shouldn't have put them on the web" and perhaps that's true, but realize that those pages were two levels down, not linked, and one directory above them had no read permissions. So it's not as if they were just sitting there on the street yelling "steal me." I think it's about the moral equivalent of someone opening your unlocked front door, looking around and swiping a large box of photos off your kitchen table.

_____
Brian... a bicoastal Nikonian and Team Member

My gallery is online. Comments and critique welcomed any time!

  

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Ferguson Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004Thu 16-Oct-08 04:45 PM
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"RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"


Cape Coral, US
          

>I think
>it's about the moral equivalent of someone opening your
>unlocked front door, looking around and swiping a large box of
>photos off your kitchen table.

Perfect example. Should, if someone was walking down the street carrying a box, they be stopped and made to prove they own it without the least bit of cause?

And should a commercial concern every be in the position of doing so? Let's say they then went to UPS or Fedex and said "please ship this box" (i.e. provide a service). Should UPS be able to put itself in the position of saying "I will not ship that box unlessy ou prove you own it"?

If they suspect theft they might call the cops -- I do not mean to imply otherwise. But should the business providing a service be allowed to put THEMSELVES in as cop AND judge?

And in particular to look at you, carrying that box, and judge whether you LOOK like you are the right sort to own that box?

I am a firm believer in intelluctual property rights, I've been in the software business for years. I am a firm believer in stiff penalties and strong enforcement. Larry Nivan's Organ Banks were a good thing.

  

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Ferguson Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004Thu 16-Oct-08 04:45 PM
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#11. "RE: Your pictures seem to have been done professionally!!!!!!"
In response to Reply # 10
Thu 16-Oct-08 04:47 PM by Ferguson

Cape Coral, US
          

>I think
>it's about the moral equivalent of someone opening your
>unlocked front door, looking around and swiping a large box of
>photos off your kitchen table.

Perfect example. Should, if someone was walking down the street carrying a box, they be stopped and made to prove they own it without the least bit of cause?

And should a commercial concern every be in the position of doing so? Let's say they then went to UPS or Fedex and said "please ship this box" (i.e. provide a service). Should UPS be able to put itself in the position of saying "I will not ship that box unlessy ou prove you own it"?

If they suspect theft they might call the cops -- I do not mean to imply otherwise. But should the business providing a service be allowed to put THEMSELVES in as cop AND judge?

And in particular to look at you, carrying that box, and judge whether you LOOK like you are the right sort to own that box?

I am a firm believer in intelluctual property rights, I've been in the software business for years. I am a firm believer in stiff penalties and strong enforcement. Larry Nivan's Organ Banks were a good thing.

I am FINE with them refusing to print copyrighted images, watermarked, proof-marked, whatever.

But I am not a believer in people or businesses taking those laws into their own hands, and deciding they are the cops. They do so without due process, without respecting reasonable rights to privacy, and it is no more right for Walgreens to refuse to sell me a lab print than it is to refuse to sell me a prescription "because maybe you stole the cash you are paying with".

  

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