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snegron Silver Member Nikonian since 05th May 2007Wed 05-Jun-13 11:43 PM
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"An Impersonal Generation?"
Wed 05-Jun-13 11:47 PM by snegron

Cape Coral, Florida, US
          

I came across this article today over at Dpreview and it got me thinking. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/05/arts/design/d-james-dee-plans-to-give-away-his-modern-art-archive.html?smid=pl-share


Sadly, what we as photographers consider valuable, the rest of the world does not. This photographer put in the effort to record and save images of other artist's work, now no one seems to find his efforts relevant.

During the past 20 years or so I have noticed a trend in this new generation of adults; people seem to care less about art or history and value more what technology can do to impress or entertain them. I don't know if real live person-to-person social skills have deteriorated as a result of social media (people now have hundreds of "virtual" friends, but little, if any, actual human beings they interact with face to face), or if we have evolved (maybe devolved?) into this impersonal society as a result of something else.

The wedding photography market is a perfect example of this. While 20 years ago I had clients who were interested in how well the photos and album would turn out, clients today only care about the lowest price possible; image quantity for sharing on social media is much more important that the actual quality of the images for this new generation. Photo-booths and guests with iPads are the name of the game today

Same with team sports photography. 20 years ago people wanted me to capture action shots, where as today folks only care about posed snapshots for sports cards prints. They do not value the art of photography (capturing the moment).

Yes, I'm probably simply getting old. However, this generation (people in their 20's 30's) today seems not to care about art or history as much as previous generations. There are a few exceptions, but overall this new generation seems impersonal to me. That impersonal trait is the root cause for not caring about art or history.

I know, the irony of this post is that I am sharing it on an online forum with folks whom I have never met in person, but from what I have gathered over the years here is that many of us Nikonians not only value technology but also art, history and human interaction as well

What are your thoughts?

  

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walkerr Administrator
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 06-Jun-13 12:48 AM
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#1. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          

I'm not so sure. Since the begin of time (human time, at least), people have thought their parents didn't understand anything, and older generations have always thought the younger ones were irresponsible, didn't have the right values, rude, etc. Either we've had an incredible decline over the last 200,000 years or it's just a communication gap and other generational differences that account for the problem.

I have a son in his early twenties, and his interest in art, music, literature, etc. absolutely exceeds what mine was at his age. On the other hand, he's the one who got me used to texting rather than phonecalls for everything. Is it impersonal? Not really. He's in London right now, and I've gotten multiple texts from him every day. If it was twenty-five years ago, I might have called my parents once a week while I was there. This seems better, and it was great to hear about his visit to the Tate Modern, a concert he attended at St. Martin in the Fields, and a play he saw today at the Globe (Midsummer Night's Dream). All within the last two days. I'm leaving out the other museums, etc. he visited.

It's tough with things like wedding and sports photography. Much of what I see is people deciding they can survive with a little less quality in exchange for substantially lower costs. That doesn't seem crazy to me, especially after all the bride and groom superimposed on a wine goblet shots I've seen, coupled with very stilted and cliched poses. When my wife and I were married, we deliberately sought out a photographer who had a more informal, photojournalistic style. He did some more formal shots as well, but the photos we treasure are the casual ones. We didn't need to feel glamorous and like we were models then and still wouldn't now. What's perceived as valuable by some has little worth from others. Unfortunately, things don't always line up the way you want (or are paid) if you're a professional photographer.

Finally, I see far more people taking photography seriously than ever before, but it's their work they take seriously rather than wedding photos. That doesn't mean they're all using a high-end DSLR, though. Fantastic and creative photos are made by people with iPhones every day. As a whole, there are more pockets of excellence than ever existed in the old film days. I continue to be astonished by the quality of work by amateur photographers that's shown on this site. If I had to chose between a free image done by one of the better amateurs on this site and a $1000 print from a professional, it might be a tough trade. Actually, it probably wouldn't. I'd skip the $1000 print given how good the other results often are.

My bottom-line: I don't think things are that bad. They're just different.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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snegron Silver Member Nikonian since 05th May 2007Thu 06-Jun-13 02:12 AM
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#3. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 1
Thu 06-Jun-13 02:36 AM by snegron

Cape Coral, Florida, US
          

I see your point Rick!. You are fortunate to have a son who is interested in art, music and literature (extra lucky that he maintains regular contact with you as well).

Wedding photography has been a secondary business for me for many years (on and off since mid 1980's). My primary job though has had me dealing with the public, several of the past years dealing with teenagers specifically. I know the older we get the "better things used to be", but I'm still doing the type of job (different people) that I did many years ago.

I have been to restaurants where all the family members sitting at a table are on their their smartphones texting instead of speaking with one another; not just for a few minutes but during the entire time they were at the restaurant! Even at theme parks, people spend their time texting instead of interacting with their family. I have refused to subscribe to text messaging on my personal phone because I prefer to hear an actual voice. This frustrates most of the people I know as they have no choice but to pick a phone and talk to me!

In terms of art, most art galleries in my city have gone out of business. The only "art" available in my city now is at the local Walmart home furnishing section! Antique shops have gone out of business as well. The only new business I see going up are cell phone stores and Dollar General stores.

Another example of impersonal tendencies of this new generation can be seen in every other "customer service" department of major businesses. Large companies don't care much about customer service anymore; they know that people will purchase their products or services due to price point or technological appeal. Large companies don't value customer loyalty; only how much they can make off anyone at any time. Instead of rewarding loyalty, most companies (like cell phone providers) will penalize you if you try to quit their services. I remember when costumer service employees would ask "what can I do to have you stay with our company" versus today's response of "Sorry for your inconvenience but remember that if you cancel you will be billed for the termination fees..." etc.

Regarding new photographers, I do agree that there are many talented younger folks. Being old is not an automatic qualification of being a talented artist! Yes, I too would hire a young, talented photographer over an expensive not-so-talented photographer. What I wouldn't do is rely entirely on my wedding guests to provide me with ipad/iphone snapshots of my important day such as many folks are choosing to do nowadays. The equivalent to this would be if back in the old film days someone chose to forgo a professional wedding photographer in favor of having guests with Polaroids "capture" the event (think D800 vs. any iphone out there today). Yes, there are many folks who have captured nice images with their iphones (much the same way there were many folks who captured award-winning images with a Polaroid back in the old days). A truly talented photographer can capture good images no matter what equipment he or she uses, but odds are that the guy with the D800 is more involved in the art than Average Joe with a cool new iphone!

Several months ago I put up a booth at a wedding expo. There were several photographers there as well as one photo-booth guy. Most people were drawn to my booth and the photo booth. Why? Because I had a free giveaway promotion at my booth! The other photographers saw little if any traffic at their booths. I did get a few bookings and was thrilled that they told me they chose me because they loved my images I had on display. I probably had about 6 bookings, photo-booth guy had more than 20, other photographers two or three. Many of the people who stopped at my booth to fill out a form for a free giveaway told me they didn't want a photographer at their wedding because they had either hired a photo-booth or had "plenty of friends with iphones".

I too would say that things are not that bad; yes different, but mostly indifferent.

p.s. I'll probably never know if there were more people interested in booking their wedding with me if they tried getting a hold of me via text message!

  

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Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberThu 06-Jun-13 12:56 PM
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#5. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

It's their memories - and they'll have to live with them. Personally, I think it's fine that people are using whatever they have on them to take photos and videos. In the end, it would be great to have one's life captured in full Hi-Def and Lucas SurroundSound (no - not really) and edited to Spielberg standards, but that's not life, that's a commissioned documentary. It's those aspects of the photos, the roughness, the awkardness, the bad editing and clipping, that give authenticity. In the end, it's the memories that the photos or videos evoke that matter.

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

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Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberFri 07-Jun-13 04:29 AM
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#11. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 3


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

A wedding photographer I know has been using this interim solution to expand his sales and increase the interest on his images:

He shoots at the wedding reception tethered to a laptop where an assistant takes orders for images from attendees.

I have not checked how successful that has been but I though it was smart.
Instead of being constrained to only sell a package to the couple or the mothers of the couple, he was also selling individual images to those invited.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberThu 06-Jun-13 06:27 PM
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#6. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 1


Phoenix, US
          

Rick et al:

Agreed: the generation gap is very real.

Looking back thousands of years, it occurs to me that the rate of change in our cultures and societies has accelerated.

In earlier ages, the taming of fire was a major change. Many generations would pass before another significant, life altering change occurred.

The transition from hunter/gatherer to agrarian culture was another. Again, generations would pass before the next major step.

Coming forward thousands of years, the industrial revolution was a large step, followed by the automobile, the airplane, etc. By now, the change from one generation to the next was much more visible.

Today, and I'm guessing a bit here, the rate of change from one generation to the next is greater than that which occurred over several generations in past eras.

Naturally, this rate of change is largely a function of the rapidly evolving technologies we are surrounded with. Following fifty-plus years deep in semiconductor and computer industry technologies, I maintain that they are still in their relative infancies.

The technologies available to the next generation will make our current "Gee Whiz!" devices seem absolutely primitive.

I harbor a private theory that we hominids were not designed to live at the pace observed today. I am glad I am now an observer, and no longer a participant in the ongoing explosive evolution of these life altering technologies.

If I were thirty years or so younger, I would be studying the social, cultural, and economic changes produced by computer and related technologies.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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SheriB Silver Member Awarded for sharing her exceptional images and details of rural farm life. Nikonian since 11th Sep 2010Thu 06-Jun-13 07:29 PM
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#7. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 6


US
          

I would say you are correctthat things change faster. Taking myself as an example. I graduated from high school in 1987. Computers were a class we were taught for one quarter of I think our sophomore year? No one talked about them as something we would live with in our homes and depend on other than in industry and scientific careers. There was not even an elective class to take if you wanted to learn more. Cellphones back then?? Ha. My grandparents still had a party line. I remember the christmas we got a vcr.Now you just stream movies on your tv if you are able..
I do wonder if in this day and age of less person to person contact, how do people learn to interact? Take homeschooling. I know a few kids are home schooled because they have trouble with peers. What happens when they need to go out into the real world, get a job and deal with a tough boss or mean coworker? On the other hand, if generations are being raised with less interpersonal contact, does that mean they may fare better emotionally if they are alone? Fewer cases of depression, less self medication due to feeling unloved or alone? Just text someone and you know you are not alone. Quantity over quality..."all my Facebook friends like my post..I am loved"

Sheri Becker

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberThu 06-Jun-13 09:34 PM
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#8. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 7


Phoenix, US
          

Sheri:

Well said! Thanks for dropping in. How is the haying going?

A few additional thoughts:

1) When the early settlers arrived in what is now called America, it could take a year or more to exchange letters with the folks back in the old country. Today, we pick up a cell phone, push a few buttons and can be connected with people almost anyplace on the planet in seconds.

2) In the early days, a trip to the old country could take months by sailing ship. Today, we can get on an airplane and be almost anyplace on the planet within twenty-four hours.

3) When the "Shot Heard Round the World" was fired in Massachusetts, starting our Revolutionary War in 1775, it took almost two weeks for news of the event to reach Philadelphia.

4) In my experience, the pace of life today often precludes the luxury of time for contemplation and reflection, prior to identifying a course of action. To your point Sheri: Quantity of decisions over quality of decisions.

5) I, for one, do not understand the compulsion to be connected to someone/anyone 24/7/365 observed today in so many young people. Are they that insecure? Friends tell me of grandkids exchanging thousands of cell phone texts per month. In some cases, ten and more per hour for their waking day, one every five or six minutes on average. How do they find time for anything else?

6) Color me old fashioned ... I much prefer a leisurely, stimulating, face to face, philosophical discussion with good friends, over a wee dram of good single malt Scotch when possible.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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quenton8 Silver Member Awarded for bringing his experience to the Nikonians community helping members with printing and the use of post-processing software from the perspective of an IT professional. Nikonian since 11th Apr 2010Fri 07-Jun-13 12:16 AM
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#9. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 8


Toronto, CA
          

I like your #6 -- the scotch (single malt) and the friends is a great idea.

The other day, my daughter (old enough to know better, but young enough to be taken in), told me she has over a 100 friends.

I said "no, you have 100 facebook connections".

After she tried to argue it, I asked how many would lend her $100 if she were in trouble -- "well I don't really see them to get $100 from them" -- I said "no, you have 3 or 4 friends and THEY would lend you $100 if you really needed it".

She was not at all happy with this -- mostly because she IS old enough to know better. But what about all those who are NOT old enough? They get hurt because these are NOT really friends.

I talked to a friend the other day, who is a high-school principal -- he has trouble with "cyber-bullied kids". They all think these are their "friends" so they get horribly hurt when things turn -- not "friends".

I hope things come back a bit -- and the same with photography. I constantly get questioned as to why I have such an "expensive camera" (a D90 with 2 lenses and one flash). Then they ask for copies of my photos -- "printed".

I don't know, maybe all we need is iPhone photos, but not for me. And "friends" on facebook are not "friends" -- guess I am just "old".

----
Dennis Smith.

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberFri 07-Jun-13 04:31 PM
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#16. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 9


Phoenix, US
          

Dennis:

Thanks for your comments.

Nice to know others enjoy my simple, leisurely pursuits.

It occurs to me that the term "friend" is very much a relative term these days.

Thanks for sharing your discussion with your daughter ... very illuminating.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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SheriB Silver Member Awarded for sharing her exceptional images and details of rural farm life. Nikonian since 11th Sep 2010Fri 07-Jun-13 10:34 AM
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#13. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 8


US
          


>
>5) I, for one, do not understand the compulsion to be
>connected to someone/anyone 24/7/365 observed today in so many
>young people. Are they that insecure? Friends tell me of
>grandkids exchanging thousands of cell phone texts per month.
>In some cases, ten and more per hour for their waking day, one
>every five or six minutes on average. How do they find time
>for anything else?

Time to learn how to really communicate.

Time for things like reading, even watching classic movies, following a hobby...like photography for instance. It is adults too. A friends marriage tanked..he said his wife claimed to not have time to...lets just say to spend quality time with him. Yet he could see all the time she spent posting on Facebook and the like, when she was supposedly doing work she took home from the office every evening. So instead of facing their problems that drove her to hide from the marriage, by talking or going to counselinge, She let these non personal relationships take time away from her flesh and blood one. ( and before anyone jumps on me...yes I know it takes 2...and i am sure he found ways to zone out)
I cannot imagine being connected 24/7 either..Technically I am..I have a cell provided by work, and before the Boss went into the home,I could be getting calls ANYTIME. But I despise texting..would rather talk on the phone unless it is a one sentence convo. And I get to the point that I just want silence...and alone time...


Oh and haying is going well. Although all the farm kids are growing so fast...I am feeling obsolete, not having much to do when the wagons pull in...grab the camera...

Sheri Becker

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberFri 07-Jun-13 04:51 PM
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#17. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 13


Phoenix, US
          

Sheri:

Interesting story about your friends.

I wonder how marriage counselors are dealing with situations like that? Do they really understand the addictive/compulsive behavior of Internet addicts? I wonder ...

If possible, banish your feeling of obsolescence. Instead, enjoy the wisdom and knowledge you have gained to date, and share it willingly with those who ask. I relish my current role as an observer instead of an active participant in the increasingly hectic world swirling around me. I will be 75 in October, and no signs of an ulcer yet.

A final note about Mother Nature's final irony: Now that I have my act together, my body is falling apart. Nothing a few yards of bailing wire and/or binder twine won't fix.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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SheriB Silver Member Awarded for sharing her exceptional images and details of rural farm life. Nikonian since 11th Sep 2010Fri 07-Jun-13 05:56 PM
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#20. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 17
Fri 07-Jun-13 06:50 PM by SheriB

US
          

I can mail you some..the new stuff is plastic/nylon cording...doesn't rot and the mice do not chew through it like the sisal type

Oh and I just posted an album full of black and white images of the haying process in my gallery..only thing in my gallery right now..

Sheri Becker

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberSat 08-Jun-13 07:15 PM
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#27. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 20


Phoenix, US
          

Sheri:

Thanks for the kind offer of some of the "new plastic/nylon cording stuff". Nice to know that mice cannot chew through it.

If you send me enough of it, I can pretend to be Gulliver, and let all my Lilliputian friends tie me down. (There are probably a few that would like to tie me down and leave me there!)

The haying series in your gallery is excellent! I admire your keen sense of composition. You always capture that little extra insight/perspective that makes your images more interesting: rolling landscape, tilted horizons and farm machines, low camera angle, etc.

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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SheriB Silver Member Awarded for sharing her exceptional images and details of rural farm life. Nikonian since 11th Sep 2010Sat 08-Jun-13 07:57 PM
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#28. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 27


US
          

Tie you down and take off with your herd of Speedlights...
Thanks for the feedback. I feel I am improving, slowing down. Odd, since I now feel the approach of "the end" more than before, with the Boss passing. Although as slow as the executors seem to move..I may be here longer than I think!

Sheri Becker

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Thu 06-Jun-13 01:56 AM
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#2. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0


McAllen, US
          

I guess I'm torn between both camps. In the end I try not let it get to me since I too remember when I thought the older generation was so "square". The one exception was my father, he seemed to thrive with all human contact regardless of the age of the person. When I was a kid all my friends enjoyed being around him, while I would occasionally roll my eyes.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

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Omaha Registered since 07th Jan 2012Fri 07-Jun-13 02:19 AM
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#10. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 4


Omaha, US
          

Are you all familiar with the smartphone app known as "snapchat". From what I gather, it allows people to share photos instantly, and (this is the big "hook") temporarily. After a short amount of time (a few hours or days I think) the photo simply vanishes. Gone forever. Poof! Down the memory hole.

I think that is the lasting impact of the evolution of photographic technology.

By its nature, a photograph is an abstraction. But when photography started, people didn't think of it that way. A painting may be an abstraction, but it is also a "thing", and in that same sense, early photographs (I'm thinking of stuff like colloidal wet plate portraits) were "things" in their own right. Tangible. Permanent. Immutable things.

Fast forward to the film era, and photographs became more abstract. There was a negative (or positive) used to create the final print. So, what is the "thing" there? Is it the film, or the print? I think in general we thought of the negative as being "the thing"...the print was a derivative object. So the whole operation becomes slightly more abstract than the colloidal plate era.

Fast forward to digital. At first, people visualized digital as a way of replacing the film step in the earlier process, but the end result was still a print. Now, what is "the thing"? Is it the collection of bits that came off the sensor? Can't touch it. Can't see it. Can't feel it. The only way we even know its there is by inference when we use it to create the print. So again, more abstraction.

Then we connected all the dots and now the era of the print itself is winding down. Pictures on paper? Who needs them! (Personally, I think we do, but that's another topic...) Photographs exist to be seen on computer (and telephone!) monitors. That's what photographs ARE these days, and its perfectly abstract. There is no thing. There will never be a thing. The very idea of "touching" a photograph is obsolete. I'd venture that way, way less than 0.5% of all digital photographs taken in 2013 will ever be put on paper. Ergo, "snapchat". The ultimate manifestation of this evolution.

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SheriB Silver Member Awarded for sharing her exceptional images and details of rural farm life. Nikonian since 11th Sep 2010Fri 07-Jun-13 10:18 AM
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#12. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Actually..They only last UP TO 10 SECONDS?..imagine that..although mounting evidence is that like everything else..it is still there ....somewhere.

Sheri Becker

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Fri 07-Jun-13 12:13 PM
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#14. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0


Little Rock, US
          

> However, this generation (people in their 20's 30's) today seems not >to care about art or history as much as previous generations.

I believe a recent example that refutes that idea happened to me in in March, in Chicago at the Art Institute. There was a Picasso exhibition. There were lines of people, mostly young adults, going through, looking at the sculptures and paintings. Maybe a city like Chicago, or New York, you get a skewed perception based on the possibility of more people in the area being interested.

I know that all the younger adults, my own kids included, are passionate about different things. All the ones I know are college educated and informed about the world, (and I think this is key to their view of things).

I live in Arkansas, not a native, and I find a huge divide in people based on education. There are plenty of people doing the texting, facebook, gaming, computer thing with not much else going on in their life - they use the technology to talk and play, not learn. They tend to be the less educated - reminds me of characters out of some Kurt Vonnegut novel. The other group uses technology in a different way and the difference is striking - yes they talk and play, but the learn and research, read and extrapolate from the data what is happening in their lives.

I do tend to agree with Hal that integrating the rate of change that technology is causing is a challenge to the species - frankly I don't think we can envision where this is going to wind up - but it's a form of evolution IMO.

My day job is working in and supporting the latest, state of the art ethernet fiber optic backhaul environments for 4G LTE networks, (all that wireless traffic has to get in and out of the Internet somehow or it has no where to go!). Every single person in our organization is a heavy user of tech. We have to be. So when I look at what people are doing with iPhones, Androids, tablets, and even the old laptop computer, (lol), I see many levels of intent, usage and expertise.

We're going somewhere with all of this, but I reiterate, I am not sure where that is going to be and I don't believe even the so-called tech prognosticators know either.

Just a perspective,

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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HBB Moderator Hal is an expert in several areas, including CLS Awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Resources. Charter MemberFri 07-Jun-13 05:17 PM
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#18. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 14
Fri 07-Jun-13 07:14 PM by HBB

Phoenix, US
          

David:

Thanks for joining this thread.

I agree with your point about education. In my observation, we are turning out graduates with increasingly narrow, very specialized knowledge. Gone are the days of what was once called a "Liberal Arts" education. Where are the generalists when we need them?

As this trend continues, it seems to me that we are not producing enough graduates with a broader, strategic view of the worldsurrounding them, while at the same time pursuing their chosen, narrowly focused, field of endeavor. I noticed this during the years of my consulting practice, when we were recruiting information technology managers. Lots of candidates who excelled in one or more of the specialty technologies, but few with a global, "systems" perspective required to lead the client through the technology mine fields with confidence, while maintaining appropriate service levels to the increasingly dependent user community. The massive, clock stopping conversions of past decades are history, and have been replaced with the need for systems that can be evolved seamlessly, without interruption, for years to come.

I lectured all over the world for decades about information technologies, including the Internet. I agree: there are few people walking around loose who can predict the future of the Internet with any accuracy. I have maintained for years that the current Internet incarnation is still a grand experiment. Once we get multiple gigabit per second fiber optic bandwidth the last mile to the home and workplace computers for ten dollars a month, the Internet will take on a complexion that is difficult to contemplate.

I counsel young people sent to me by friends to view their education as a means of preparing them for a lifetime of learning. Failure to keep up with the increasing acceleration of all technologies will quickly lead to obsolescence. A part of this discussion involves learning how to communicate effectively: Reading for comprehension; writing skills to accurately convey their knowledge to others; listening and critical thinking; public speaking ... graduates with these skills will quickly rise to the top with corporate recruiters.

I also counsel them to watch "converging" technologies, medicine, microprocessors, and nano-technology for example. The use of these technologies in medicine today is primarily diagnostic. We are on the cusp of an era where they will play an increasing role in curative procedures. Fascinating career opportunities for properly prepared graduates.

One thing I see emerging in coming decades involves a major paradigm shift: Computers will adapt quickly and quietly to their users; at their demonstrated literacy level and preferred learning style, instead of the current, often painful and frustrating requirement for users to adapt to computers and their often rigid, non-intuitive protocols. The transition has already begun. Stay tuned!

Regards,

HBB in Phoenix, Arizona
Nikonian Team Member

Photography is a journey with no conceivable destination.

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Sun 09-Jun-13 10:11 PM
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#29. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 18
Sun 09-Jun-13 11:10 PM by dagoldst

Little Rock, US
          

>I agree with your point about education. In my observation,
>we are turning out graduates with increasingly narrow, very
>specialized knowledge. Gone are the days of what was once
>called a "Liberal Arts" education. Where are the
>generalists when we need them?

I agree, there is a certain barbarism of specialization, (to paraphrase a Mortimer Adler quote), and I think this is a byproduct of people only going to college for job qualifying degrees. I'd also say there is no way to become fully educated in just 4 years of college, it is just a primer.

>
>As this trend continues, it seems to me that we are not
>producing enough graduates with a broader, strategic view of
>the world surrounding them, while at the same time pursuing
>their chosen, narrowly focused, field of endeavor.

It takes a lifetime of study, IMO, and today, it is important to look very critically at what has been said before about human nature in the light of all the research being done on the human mind, cognition, and consciousness. The intersection of human limitation and advanced technology is creating a very challenging world for the species going forward.


>I noticed
>this during the years of my consulting practice, when we were
>recruiting information technology managers. Lots of
>candidates who excelled in one or more of the specialty
>technologies, but few with a global, "systems"
>perspective required to lead the client through the technology
>mine fields with confidence, while maintaining appropriate
>service levels to the increasingly dependent user community.
>The massive, clock stopping conversions of past decades are
>history, and have been replaced with the need for systems that
>can be evolved seamlessly, without interruption, for years to
>come.

It is near impossible to find a technology manager that has a big picture view, (especially with CTO type folk, though that is their job - they are highly overrated). The few people that can see both the technology and the processes AND put them in the context of long term vision hardly exist.

>
>I lectured all over the world for decades about information
>technologies, including the Internet. I agree: there are few
>people walking around loose who can predict the future of the
>Internet with any accuracy. I have maintained for years that
>the current Internet incarnation is still a grand experiment.

It's an experiment, how grand we will see!

>Once we get multiple gigabit per second fiber optic bandwidth
>the last mile to the home and workplace computers for ten
>dollars a month, the Internet will take on a complexion that
>is difficult to contemplate.

This is a pure cost issue to deliver fiber to the home, especially to rural residences. Some things defy cost reduction, for instance equipment driving lasers longer distances - right now, the company I work for pays around $20k for a single long distance XFP, (10 Gigabit Small Form Factor Pluggable laser transceiver). Typically we mix multiple lightwaves into DWDM amplifiers to maximize the utilization of fiber infrastructure, (DWDM allows up to eighty 10 gigabit lightwaves at once through a single fiber pair, depending on channel spacing). While there are now 40 and 100 gigabit standards coming into use, the cost is up there.

That said, and back to your point, over the next couple decades, we should see some amazing new networks being deployed to haul data around our planet, but it is more likely there will be more of a class divide between who can afford the technology and who can't.


>
>I counsel young people sent to me by friends to view their
>education as a means of preparing them for a lifetime of
>learning.

Yep - I always contend one quits learning in today's world at their own risk. It's true not only of social issues, but in just staying economically viable in a rapidly evolving global economy.

>I also counsel them to watch "converging"
>technologies, medicine, microprocessors, and nano-technology
>for example. The use of these technologies in medicine today
>is primarily diagnostic. We are on the cusp of an era where
>they will play an increasing role in curative procedures.
>Fascinating career opportunities for properly prepared
>graduates.

If I could start right now, I would dive into the cognitive science area and neurobiology. It's fascinating.

>One thing I see emerging in coming decades involves a major
>paradigm shift: Computers will adapt quickly and quietly to
>their users; at their demonstrated literacy level and
>preferred learning style, instead of the current, often
>painful and frustrating requirement for users to adapt to
>computers and their often rigid, non-intuitive protocols. The
>transition has already begun. Stay tuned!

It's already under way with "learning systems",though rather crudely.

Great stuff Hal, thanks for sharing.

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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Omaha Registered since 07th Jan 2012Fri 07-Jun-13 02:51 PM
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#15. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0


Omaha, US
          

One other thought on this...

I think part of what we are seeing is the inevitable effect of reducing the investment made in any particular photograph.

150 years ago, acquiring a photograph was a big deal. 50 years ago, less so, but there was still a non-zero commitment in terms of time and money.

Today? Zero. Grab your phone. Stand in front of the bathroom mirror. Stick your butt out, make a "fish lips" face, and BANG! You're all over Twitter.

If "the kids these days" don't value photographs, its probably because to them, there is nothing invested.

I see this in a limited way in my own shooting. Over the past few months, I've picked up an old medium format film camera. Round numbers, every photograph I take costs me $0.50 in film and another $1 in processing. Even though I am (fortunately) in a place in life where such expenses are of no particular consequence, they still greatly effect my shooting. Using the Mamiya is an exercise in careful deliberateness. Its a totally different thing than firing off a few hundred shots with the Nikon and then pulling out a few keepers using Lightroom.

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spiritualized67 Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Mar 2007Fri 07-Jun-13 05:31 PM
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#19. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0


Western PA, US
          

"Stick your butt out, make a ‘fish lips’ face, and BANG! You're all over Twitter."

Funny Jeff (Omaha)!

I think you've got that one nailed. Sounds like my daughters, lol.

I wouldn't so much as use the word "impersonal" to describe today's "Generation Me" youth - but maybe "distracted" or “disconnected.”

Of course, some argue that today's kids are growing up with an inflated sense of entitlement and are much more narcissistic than in previous generations. In this Internet age, everyone thinks they can be a star (without the work ethic); kids collect online friends like they are stamps; and it doesn't help that today's crop of parents will give little Johnny an award for just showing up (which can detrimentally affect self-esteem).

As for how this impacts perceptions and values about culture and art – well that’s really hard to say. I do think there are many youth who value culture – although I think this appreciation is shifting from the brick and mortar world to more of a virtual one. I also think the Internet is helping to re-define and re-shape our views and perceptions about culture.

Not just limited to today’s youth, I’m seeing a general decline in support across all cultural endeavors—from public broadcasting and music symphonies to art shows, quality educational programming – and even in our appreciation for classic literature.

Yes, it seems (at least on the surface) as though people are more concerned about keeping up with the Kardashians than they are about keeping up with Ansel Adams. It’s sad really, but a sign of our technologically oversaturated, media-driven culture.

I do believe that technology and Internet are also impacting our views toward social interaction. I even see this in business, where it’s often easier to send an email to a colleague in the office next door than it is to just walk down the hall. And let’s face it, the Internet has bred a culture that makes it ok to hide anonymously behind a keyboard and say anything you want; things you’d never even dream of saying to that same person face to face.

Even in the photographic world, the recent decision by the “Chicago Sun-Times” to fire their entire photojournalism staff and replace them with casual bystanders carrying iPhones shows that there is a sea-change happening—driven by our ubiquitous appetite for online sharing and changing perceptions about what is or is not news. Even Yahoo’s CEO Marissa Mayer recently chimed in when talking about the recent Flickr redesign fiasco when she made a statement that basically proclaimed that, “there is no such thing as professional photographers” anymore.

So, are we living in a more impersonal world (that could be affecting how we value culture)…well I’d have to say yes on many fronts - especially if we look at it more from a collective rather than individual level. One thing is for sure, we’re living in an infinitely more complicated world – and it’s difficult to predict just what impact technology and Internet will ultimately have in re-shaping our values, morals, perceptions and behaviors.

~Dan
www.danielstainer.com

  

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Martin Turner Moderator Expert professional PJ & PR photographer Nikonian since 19th Jun 2006Fri 07-Jun-13 10:42 PM
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#21. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0


Bidford on Avon, GB
          

I read the article and feel sad that so much fine photography may go to waste, but it doesn't seem to be a problem with a generation. It's uncatalogued extra images, and, like most art, provenance is important.

As far as young people are concerned, I work a lot with teenagers and I'm humbled and excited by their photographic creativity. When I was 18 I was taking pictures of flowers, dogs and sunrises. These guys are experimenting in every kind of way.

The Bontempi keyboard did for music what smartphone cameras are doing for photography: it put a means of making a low quality sound into the hands of tens of thousands (read millions for smartphones) of people who would otherwise never have tried it. Most of them never became concert pianists, but neither did it reduce the number of concert pianists who eventually made it.

Here's a shot we took last week:



Yes, that is a blue tarpaulin, not water, and it's supposed to be a blue tarpaulin, though we want the viewer to have to look twice to spot it. The surreal feel is deliberate.

We planned and executed this with two teenagers and two 20+ers. Quite often they put images together like this without my help. Like teenagers from all periods they need guidance to avoid taking shortcuts. The image was used on a 14.85 x 21 cm flyer, and so needed to be 1825 x 2551 pixels because of oversampling. Without guidance, they would have attempted to shoot something at 72dpi which would have looked great on screen, but would have seemed blurry on CMYK offset.

What I'm saying with this is that it's as easy to inspire youth to work on challenging images as it was when I was a teenager. The difference is that they can execute something which is good enough to be used in commercial advertising, whereas at that age I wasn't creating images good enough to be used on a school poster.

Just another perspective.

M A R T I N • T U R N E R
http://art.martinturner.org.uk
http://www.martinturner.org.uk

Nikonians membership: my most important photographic investment, after the camera

My Nikonians blog, Learning from the Portrait Masters, http://blog.nikonians.org/martin_turner/

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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archivue Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Mar 2002Sat 08-Jun-13 12:25 PM
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#23. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 21


Paris, FR
          

Aye, Martin, I fully agree ! Working everyday with 20+ students (on other fields) your viewpoint mirrors mine... Up to the point that while creativity is higher there is often a lag on technicality !
But maybe that's the easier part to compensate for...

Jacques

"Un photographe, finalement, c'est quelqu'un comme les autres, mais qui prend des photos." - Man Ray
My Gallery...
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archivue Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Mar 2002Sat 08-Jun-13 12:33 PM
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#24. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 23


Paris, FR
          

On a more general view of the original topic, I do believe that we (us, this generation of 40+ active adults) have stopped saying stories (yes like the bedtimes' ones), and didn't really do our job of conveying trust, dreams, energy to the following generations (cornered in a no future, jobless, elitist, mind your own business, sort of society)!

Each time I (as many others also) show "things" to the younger generation, narrate the "why", counsel books (yes indeed ), I'm surprised at the results, at the sheer quality of those young thoughts that were just left without tools...

My two cents...

Jacques

"Un photographe, finalement, c'est quelqu'un comme les autres, mais qui prend des photos." - Man Ray
My Gallery...
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snegron Silver Member Nikonian since 05th May 2007Sun 09-Jun-13 10:19 PM
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#30. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 24
Sun 09-Jun-13 10:21 PM by snegron

Cape Coral, Florida, US
          



I agree with your claim that our generation has not not done our job adequately. Could it be that we too have been caught up with this new, complicated technology, or maybe the cost of daily survival has increased so much to the point that we are find ourselves working longer hours in order to earn a few dollars more to pay for basic needs? I'm really not sure.

I have two little ones. I have tried my best to maintain their childhood untarnished by the the seedy programing so many networks (Disney and Nickelodeon included)have opted to shove down their innocent throats. I have tried reading them stories, selecting programs that keep childhood dreams alive, but more often than not I find myself in a losing battle. Their classmates have have made it a point to introduce the rude, over-sexed selfish elements I have tried to shield them from.

My eldest is in middle school. I refuse to let her have a Facebook account. She does not have texting "privileges"; she has a cell phone that is used for emergency purposes only. She knows that at this stage in her life social media is a primary source of peer conflict as most children her age do not have the maturity to talk among themselves online without adult supervision.

Many will strongly disagree with my last comment. I have first hand, personal experience dealing with hundreds (yes, hundreds) of pre-teens and teenagers who have had their personal/emotional lives ruined because of the unsupervised use of social media. I have dealt with dozens of teens who have attempted suicide because of "cyber bullying". Several of these teens were successful in taking their own lives.

I make it a point to spend time with my kids and take advantage of every teachable moment possible to convey a moral, ethical example of what is right and wrong. I am proud to say that, despite being viewed as "old-fashioned" by many, I choose to communicate with my kids verbally; not through electronic methods! Also, I do many hands-on things with them as well (painting, leather working, photography, arts and crafts jewelry, etc.) I want them to appreciate art and have them develop their creative side. One lesson I have taught them is that what distinguishes humans from the rest of the species on this planet is our ability to create and appreciate art.

Will my kids be at a disadvantage with other kids of their generation? Maybe. However, I'm banking on them having something other kids of their generation might not have; an edge on interpersonal communication when they grow older as well as an appreciation for what makes us human.




  

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archivue Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Mar 2002Mon 10-Jun-13 12:27 PM
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#34. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 30


Paris, FR
          

I wasn't speaking (or writing) about individuals but more of society, as anyhow, whatever principles you give your children, you can't shield them from the others ad infinitum...!

School, and school activities are often the starting point of learning how to live together, but in many parts of the world it fails as not enough funds nor attention is given to those crucial years ! Then there is the academics, either rooted stubbornly in a distant past or "golden age", while other just erase the fundamentals because children can't follow and need to pass !

It always was a fragile equilibrium between the education at home and the one in school. When I was younger, school teachers made my eye shine with their stories of science, of literature, of geography... I wanted to study all these because those wise teachers always had some short stories, often trivial, that helped me remember the whole course, the meaning of things, the purpose !

Then there is boredom... I was often bored, because in those times the adults didn't care too much about children, some paper and pencils and you were stuck for all the adults dinner time in some room, you had time to think, to read, to draw, to make paper airplanes or whatever... No TV, no computers to "distract" you from yourself. Most students I know are afraid of silence, of doing "nothing" (as if such thing existed).

But when you manage to get their attention, to get them to think for others, to bring down high altitude concepts to an everyday landing strip, then, they are ready to "save the world" (for a while at least )

I've given this semester to my architecture students a "real" subject, the Museum of Photography of the small village of Bièvres near Paris. It was to help the locals who've been dreaming of that museum for more then thirty years (first ever daguerrotypes of China, first picture from a hot air ballon from Nadar, etc.). But of course it was also to teach them about people (after all that's why we build things). To make it short we had an exposition of their project at the annual photo fair (30 000 visitors) and the visitors could vote for the design the liked best.
All the students (some from very far in the world) confessed to me that it was the first time they understood what architecture was about.. And most bought old vintage film cameras

One of the purpose of this peculiar museum was not about showing pictures or old cameras, but to practice the various stages of photography in time, getting back home with pictures you've took and developed, testing a drop of water in the hole of a pin-hole camera (sténopé) to understand the first lenses, the first zooms, playing with light to understand and practice apertures (square root), make you very own gelatin on weird supports, marvel at the craftsmanship of those mechanisms...

You just can't get all that with youtube...!

Jacques

"Un photographe, finalement, c'est quelqu'un comme les autres, mais qui prend des photos." - Man Ray
My Gallery...
My Other Gallery...

  

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jrp Administrator JRP is one of the co-founders, has in-depth knowledge in various areas. Awarded for his contributions for the Resources Charter MemberMon 10-Jun-13 08:10 PM
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#36. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 34


San Pedro Garza García, MX
          

Jacques, as an interested and dedicated educator you may want to see and hear this, in case you have not seen it before.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy and the product catalog of the Photo Pro Shop

  

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archivue Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Mar 2002Tue 11-Jun-13 06:12 AM
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#37. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 36


Paris, FR
          

Thanks for the link... I hadn't seen it nor know the author ! Usually we diverge a bit between what I would call the Mediterranean culture of pedagogy and the Anglo-Saxon one, but he seems to build a bridge

Jacques

"Un photographe, finalement, c'est quelqu'un comme les autres, mais qui prend des photos." - Man Ray
My Gallery...
My Other Gallery...

  

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snegron Silver Member Nikonian since 05th May 2007Sat 08-Jun-13 11:56 AM
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#22. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0
Sat 08-Jun-13 12:07 PM by snegron

Cape Coral, Florida, US
          

I would agree that there has always been and always will be a generation gap. However, if you look back at the past generations within our lifetime there is a marked behavioral difference compared to the youth of this current generation.

The 1950's, 60's, 70's and 80's had one thing in common; young folks were rebellious and defied establishment in many ways (hair, clothing, music, etc.). The goal seemed to be to assert one's individuality.

Looking back recently at the 90's and this past decade I don't see the same rebellious nature among the youth. I see younger folks now more engrossed in their smartphones; hair doesn't matter nor does clothing. Music is pretty stale as well (From Brittney to Taylor Swift all the music sounds like a blend instead of something new and innovative). Could it be that young folks today don't need to rely on social tools which make up for their appearance since most of their communication is done electronically? Could this, in turn, lead to the lack of pushing the envelope/boundaries and subsequent lack of interest in the liberal arts?


I wonder if this trend toward reliance on technology will lead to an even more stagnant society in the future, thereby stifling all creativity and imagination in the future?

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sat 08-Jun-13 12:35 PM
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#25. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 22


Colorado Springs, US
          

My take is you're interpreting them through your eyes and your understanding of what they like and do. My parents thought I didn't care about my hair (I used to have a lot more) or more clothes, and they thought my music was awful and all sounded the same (Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, Aerosmith, ZZ Top, etc.) in comparison with the glorious Lawrence Welk they enjoyed. Where were the melodies? Where were all the smiles on the faces of the performers as they twirled around the stage? My wife likes Taylor Swift, and I'm not sure Britney Spears is that relevant today. I'm mostly stuck in the past in terms of my musical preferences, although I try to appreciate at last part of more recent music. I do think music goes in waves of interesting phases, followed by boring ones. We certainly saw it in the past, with Elvis replaced by smoothed over pop acts, the Beatles coming in with innovators, replaced by disco, followed by punk, followed by more pop, followed by grunge, ...it goes on. Today there are alternative channels for music that we don't know well and that don't follow the big labels - younger people use technology to access them. They can access videos and music via YouTube or create their own...

My main point is that just as my parents didn't completely understand what I was doing and what I valued (although we later converged a bit), the same is going on today. Personally, I realized I was old several years back when Cadillac used Led Zeppelin on their commercials. I concluded that Zeppelin had become what Lawrence Welk was for my parents - safe, nostalgic and a thing of the past. I still like it, although my son doesn't quite get it.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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KerryS Silver Member Nikonian since 30th Nov 2012Sat 08-Jun-13 06:55 PM
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#26. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 25
Sat 08-Jun-13 06:56 PM by KerryS

Sedro Woolley, WA, US
          

I went to a high school graduation last night. The quality, individualism, talent, and academic achievement of this small group if young people amazed me. With a graduation rate of over 90% (far higher than my high school 40 years ago) this small town high school was bucking the trend. Over 3 million dollars awarded in scholarships with over $140,000 coming from local sources this is one amazing class consisting of 230 individuals. Perhaps this school is above the average nationally; I believe it is not that much different in other communities. Are the youth today different then 50 years ago? Yes and no. Each generation will leave their mark on the world. I am not to concerned that this one's mark will be any worse than my generation's was. You go for it class of 2013.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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snegron Silver Member Nikonian since 05th May 2007Sun 09-Jun-13 11:13 PM
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#32. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 25
Sun 09-Jun-13 11:31 PM by snegron

Cape Coral, Florida, US
          

>My take is you're interpreting them through your eyes and
>your understanding of what they like and do. My parents
>thought I didn't care about my hair (I used to have a lot
>more) or more clothes, and they thought my music was awful and
>all sounded the same (Led Zeppelin, Van Halen, Aerosmith, ZZ
>Top, etc.) in comparison with the glorious Lawrence Welk they
>enjoyed. Where were the melodies? Where were all the smiles
>on the faces of the performers as they twirled around the
>stage? My wife likes Taylor Swift, and I'm not sure Britney
>Spears is that relevant today. I'm mostly stuck in the past
>in terms of my musical preferences, although I try to
>appreciate at last part of more recent music. I do think
>music goes in waves of interesting phases, followed by boring
>ones. We certainly saw it in the past, with Elvis replaced by
>smoothed over pop acts, the Beatles coming in with innovators,
>replaced by disco, followed by punk, followed by more pop,
>followed by grunge, ...it goes on. Today there are
>alternative channels for music that we don't know well and
>that don't follow the big labels - younger people use
>technology to access them. They can access videos and music
>via YouTube or create their own...
>
>My main point is that just as my parents didn't completely
>understand what I was doing and what I valued (although we
>later converged a bit), the same is going on today.
>Personally, I realized I was old several years back when
>Cadillac used Led Zeppelin on their commercials. I concluded
>that Zeppelin had become what Lawrence Welk was for my parents
>- safe, nostalgic and a thing of the past. I still like it,
>although my son doesn't quite get it.


I agree with you 100% regarding how kids today have infinite more access to music and other forms of art. Absolutely no question about that whatsoever. My question is, what are they doing with their artistic abilities now that they have this unlimited access?

My point is that in every past generation a new "movement" was created. Rock & Roll, heavy metal, pop music, punk rock, grunge, etc. I really can't think of any movement or anything truly innovative created within the past 20 years. Yes, there are variations of pop, but nothing truly innovative. Even in pop, think back to Madonna; she was innovative not only because of her singing style and talent but also because of her public/on-stage persona. The world had never seen anyone like her (maybe Janice Joplin, but a whole new creation). Since then we have had maybe two (Brittany and Lady Gaga maybe) who have been somewhat of a continuation of what Madonna created.

I'm not saying there aren't any talented artists out there today; I love Fun., Maroon 5, Pink, Adelle, etc.. But while they are fantastic, talented artists, they are artists in the same genre; a genre created a few decades ago by our generation. Will we find a new movement or creation in "Indie" someday? I truly hope so.

As far as the hair goes; I find myself "follically challenged" as well these days! Every past generation expressed their rebellious nature against establishment through their hair styles (long hair in the 60's, Disco hair in the 70's, tall/strange/long hairdos of the 80's, back to long in the 90's). This new generation doesn't seem to have any specific hair style. They don't find it to be as important to them as with our generation. Not that it matters (hair style is quite trivial), but I used it as an example in my previous post to prove a point. "Fitting in" for this new generation requires witty and quick electronic communication instead of expression of physical traits.

Think also of clothing. I can't think of any new or innovative clothing styles created during the past 15 or 20 years (except for men's pants hanging below their buttocks). If you watch a recorded TV broadcast from the late 90's, the styles look pretty much the same they do today. Again, while somewhat trivial, I use the creativity of clothing design to show how this newer generation seems to have focused all their efforts to technology instead of artistic innovation. No new movements; only variations of what our generation created.

Unlike the old folks from when I was growing up, I don't think that this new generation is worse in any way from my generation; I simply feel somewhat sad that they haven't pushed the boundaries to show what we humans are truly capable of creating in terms of art. Everyday I hope to hear something new, but all I see are variations of the same old things. Are updated iphones the only artistic innovations we have to look forward to? I truly hope not!

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Sun 09-Jun-13 11:00 PM
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#31. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 22


Little Rock, US
          

>I wonder if this trend toward reliance on technology will lead
>to an even more stagnant society in the future, thereby
>stifling all creativity and imagination in the future?

“A youth is to be regarded with respect. How do you know that his future will not be equal to our present?” Attributed to Confucius.

I tend to agree with Rick that you are seeing this phenomena through your perspective and life experiences - it has been my experience that our filters, which operate below our consciousness, can be misleading at times.

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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snegron Silver Member Nikonian since 05th May 2007Sun 09-Jun-13 11:27 PM
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#33. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 31


Cape Coral, Florida, US
          

>>I wonder if this trend toward reliance on technology will
>lead
>>to an even more stagnant society in the future, thereby
>>stifling all creativity and imagination in the future?
>
>“A youth is to be regarded with respect. How do you know that
>his future will not be equal to our present?” Attributed to
>Confucius.
>
>I tend to agree with Rick that you are seeing this phenomena
>through your perspective and life experiences - it has been my
>experience that our filters, which operate below our
>consciousness, can be misleading at times.



"The scholar who cherishes the love of comfort is not fit to be deemed a scholar." Attributed to Confucius, from The Confucian Analects.

My concern is are we heading toward a society with no desire to express itself or create anything new?

  

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spiritualized67 Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Mar 2007Mon 10-Jun-13 02:23 PM
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#35. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 33


Western PA, US
          

I’ve seen some extraordinary creative and scholastic achievement coming from today’s youth – and I think they are every bit as capable as their predecessors. I need not look any further than my own children to see this potential.

So I’m not sure I fully agree that we are heading towards creative stagnation – although how and where this creativity will manifest itself could be somewhat shifting.

I do agree that the media-fueled technological world we now live in is having a strong pull on today’s culture – and it’s just too early to predict how this “revolution” will impact our values, perceptions and behaviors – especially in the long term.

When TV became more popular in the 50s – I’m sure there were similar discussions about how this would transform society.

But on a more cautious note, I do think today’s youth don’t share some of the same values “in certain areas” – although this could be said of any generation.

In one example, I think today’s youth don’t share as strong of a work ethic as earlier generations.

And I’m not sure I like where society is going from a social interaction standpoint – where text messaging seems to be replacing face-to-face conversations and teenagers almost find an awkwardness communicating through traditional means like the telephone.

Of course, this is not necessarily a bad thing – although it is different.

Yes, David is right in that we all tend to filter our own views based on our own experience.

One thing that is slightly different from previous incarnations of technology is the degree in which this technology/Internet/online sharing has become an extension of our personalities – integrating itself into every facet of our lives.

While the introduction of media forms like radio and TV were profound in their own right, I’m not sure they were nearly as immersive as today’s technology.

-Dan

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Tue 11-Jun-13 02:00 PM
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#38. "RE: An Impersonal Generation?"
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 11-Jun-13 02:03 PM by agitater

Toronto, CA
          

The key sentence in the NY Times article, in my view, is this one:

"Almost none of the transparencies and slides are labeled."

On that basis alone, IMO, it's all garbage. Photos of paintings, photos of sculptures, photos of installations, photos of multimedia creations. I'm absolutely sure that some percentage of the slides and transparencies are what some of us might deem to be good shots, i.e., worthy of reprinting or worthy of inclusion in some sort of retrospective. The rest of the unlabeled pile of stuff is just that - stuff.

Again, if "... almost none of the transparencies and slides are labeled" then all the venerable Mr. D. James Dee has created is a huge puzzle made of of extremely small pieces. So phooey on Mr. Dee. There are also many other, better documentarists of the SOHO art movement. And their work is labeled and described.

Hanging onto piles of stuff that is unidentifiable to us, unlabeled and essentially useless is called hoarding.

That brings me, naturally I think, to the other important demand or need implied by the reporter, to wit, "You should, however, be conversant with modern American art history. Really conversant." And doesn't that just make perfect sense, because if "... almost none of the transparencies and slides are labeled," it is obvious that only a superbly knowledgeable and well travelled modern art expert could even begin to make heads or tails of such a collection of transparencies and slides in the first place.

I get a swift pain when I read these sorts of articles. The main reason is that so many people then opine the loss of something that they often mis-define. What will be lost (if nobody picks up the collection) is the potential documentation of a period of modern art history. It's the words "potential documentation" which are important. Without notes and proper labeling, Mr. Dee's collection is valueless by any measure.

Mr. Dee did all that photography and spent all that money on developing his photos, and now it's left to someone else (or a large group of people) to find the time and money to research it all and try to figure it out? Maybe in another time when budgets and staff existed to take on such projects.

The first question I'd ask Mr. Dee is, WHY THE HECK DIDN'T YOU LABEL ANY OF THIS STUFF?!

As Mr. Dee himself is quoted in the article, "It has value to someone, not to me."

In other words, for all his love of SOHO and the contemporary art movement over the decades, the 68-year-old Mr. Dee is no better or worse a curator than anyone in their teens or '20s or '30s right now who has a casual interest in the art scene.

There is no potential loss here. Almost every show that Mr. Dee documented had its own catalog, complete with photos and descriptions. Those pieces of art depicted in the show catalogs now reside in the hands of collectors (along with their descriptions). Plenty of the work has been relegated to landfill too (i.e., no description needed for those pieces).

I think that the change Sandy has sensed is the change in the art movement in general in North America and Europe. People haven't changed though. The current iteration of the younger generation is no different with respect to its interest in art than any previous generation.

More and more, I see new exhibitions in big venues, small venues and even tiny local galleries that are jammed with people of all ages. I'm suggesting though that the OP and I (by no means do I exempt myself) are sensing their own distance from the contemporary art scene because we're just not seeing enough of what we like for ourselves. I am experiencing a growing detachment from the modern and contemporary art scenes wherever I travel because I increasingly feel the absence of any touchstone to link my own social, political and creative beliefs with what is being presented by the successive crops of artists whose works have been displayed with increasing pervasiveness over the past 20 years.

There are still plenty of newer artists, sculptors and multimedia creators whose works I like a lot. It's getting harder and harder to find quality though, IMHO that is. And I think that's the bigger problem. People of all ages are drawn to shows by things that interest them. More and more, artists from a younger generation are speaking, through their work, to their own generation rather than mine. I get that. The only problem is that it distances me from their work. Then again, there are so many artists of my own generation (and previous generations) that are doing work I truly like that I don't really feel the loss of the most current contemporary connection.

My Photo.Net Gallery
My Nikonians Gallery

Howard Carson

  

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