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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Fri 28-Dec-12 06:11 PM
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"I bought into a system, not a single model..."


Bedfordshire, GB
          

I am feeling particularly miffed. For 4 or more years I have been waiting for Nikon to release the D400; i.e., a logical successor to the D200/D300. I don't want to re-visit that topic here - there has been enough sweat and breath expended on that one by many people in various Nikonians forums over the past few years. However, this Christmas I was in the position to receive a camera as a gift, or to spend my hard-earned cash on a new model. I chose not to ask for, or to buy a Nikon this Christmas though, for the following reasons...

1. When I purchased my D200 back in 2006 I had the reasonable expectation of enjoying it for several years and then replacing it with its latest successor. Nikon has chosen not to provide a successor beyond the D300 (which is long in the tooth now and is not that much of an improvement over the D200).

2. Nikon has chosen to chase down the route of FX rather than still developing DX for its professional bodies. This effectively abandons its D200/D300 users.

For a long time I have been waiting and yearning for the next Nikon professional DX range body to appear. I know from the forums that I am one of many in this position. I feel that Nikon has taken my loyaly for granted. I understand all the arguments about misplaced views on loyalty versus hard facts of business economics; i.e., Nikon is not going to produce a DX body just to keep 'loyal' customers happy.

Well, after too long waiting, here is my new position: I am no longer going to wait for you Nikon - I am going to apply some hard facts of personal economics to the situation. From today I am now looking for a D200 replacement that is not produced by Nikon.

Do I mean a competitor DSLR? Not necessarily. My D200 is so old that most new generation Compact System Cameras and advanced compacts can easily surpass it in terms of features and functions. Right now I am considering the Sony NEX7, Sony RX100, Olympus OM-D. If Nikon is not going to provide what I want, there are other camera brands out there that will -- or in fact that already do.

I suspect that other D200 and D300 users might be feeling the same way as me right now. Are you one of them?

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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TZ750F Registered since 06th Nov 2012Fri 28-Dec-12 08:54 PM
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#1. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Brisbane, AU
          

I find your post quite confusing, most of it is bemoaning the lack of a new pro dx body, then you list cameras that you are considering buying that to my mind are far from being 'pro' bodies?
Given the fact that you obviously don't need a pro body any more, what would be wrong with a D7000?

  

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Matto Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Jan 2007Fri 28-Dec-12 09:05 PM
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#2. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Glenwood, US
          

I have been considering getting an OM D EM-5 for a while. There are lenses in the 4/3 system that are not available in equivalent focal lengths in Nikon's DX line up, and the system is much more compact.

Matthew

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Fri 28-Dec-12 09:08 PM
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#3. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Tacoma, US
          

Well, first of all, do as you see fit. You didn't sign a loyalty oath in blood punishable by death. It's just a tool.

As noted above, I don't get you lamenting a pro body, then saying you think you might switch to a compact.

Also, the D300/300s is a big step up from the D200 and still produces excellent images.

Sounds like you just want something new and shiny and feel Nikon owes you something . They don't, and you don't owe them.

As I said, it's your money, do as you wish.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Fri 28-Dec-12 09:23 PM
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#4. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Wethersfield, US
          

I would say the D300 is a large step up over a D200, so I can only wonder what you are expecting from a hypothetical new DX body. If there is something a D300 or D7000 doesn't provide, what might that be, particularly? Or should they come out with a new model just for the sake of coming out with a new model?

Also, Nikon still makes lenses and accessories that are compatible with your D200, so saying they have "abandoned" D200 users seems odd.

My D200 is so old that most new generation Compact System Cameras and advanced compacts can easily surpass it in terms of features and functions.

So can the current crop of Nikon DX DSLRs. I don't think you are going to get much sympathy unless you can point to specific failings of the current Nikon offerings.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Fri 28-Dec-12 11:45 PM
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#7. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 4


Lowden, US
          

Speaking as someone else who is waiting for a direct replacement for the D300...

I am looking for a DX camera that has better high ISO performance and ALL of the features of the D300.

The D7000 has better ISO performance but falls short in some features that are important to me.

The D800 is a bit closer, awesome sensor and most features, but the frame rate and buffer capacity are not quite good enough. Also since I currently shoot DX, with lenses up to 800mm f/5.6, and still crop most of my images, I would be wasting most of the D800’s sensor and more importantly my subjects would appear very small in any FX viewfinder making it difficult for me to determine the decisive moment to take my shot. So, the D800 still does not quite meet my needs.

The only real upgrade option, that would work for me at this time, would be a D4 paired with a 600/f4. Even with that combination, I lose one full stop of light (and, no, bumping up the ISO does not make up for the loss of real light) at any respective field of view. At a cost of $15000+ that is more than a bit out of my reach.

Having said all of that, I find the D300 is still (better than) a very good camera. It is more than adequate for most of my shooting.

An upgrade would solve some very specific problems that that I come against only occasionally. So, while a D300 replacement (D400) would be very welcome, I am not as frustrated as many other D300 users. I am confident that I can continue to produce quality work using the D300 for the foreseeable future.

I am a bit concerned that Nikon may have lost sight of the needs of photographers who need a high end DX body. I think there is money to be made with this market segment, so, I am confident that Nikon will produce another camera to fill this niche.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 12:33 AM
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#10. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 7


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>"I am a bit concerned that Nikon may have lost sight of the needs of photographers who need a high end DX body."

...I am in total agreement with this comment.



>"I think there is money to be made with this market segment, so, I am confident that Nikon will produce another camera to fill this niche."

...I am less confident. I agree with Rick on this one. I suspect that 3-5 years waiting for a D200/D300 replacement suggests that Nikon may be going nowhere with this segment. As each day passes without mention of a D400, my confidence diminishes further.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Sat 29-Dec-12 03:27 AM
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#14. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 7


Wethersfield, US
          

I understand all of that Dave, I just wanted to direct the discussion toward specifics.

I don't share your confidence that you will get what you want from Nikon (or anyone else). I'm still waiting for a D2X replacement, a DX sensor in a top-of-the-line pro body, but I don't expect to ever see that, either. I'd be all over it if it did happen.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 12:27 AM
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#9. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 4


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>"I don't think you are going to get much sympathy unless you can point to specific failings of the current Nikon offerings"

The D300 is not such a large step up over the D200. Yes, it was an improvement on the D200, but the D300S is now a 3½ year old model and that shows when even current CSC and advanced compact cameras have some more advanced features that have emerged since then.

As for the 'failings' (your wording, not mine) of the current Nikon offering, apart from the D300 all of the DX models are in Nikon's consumer range, which means they do not have full magnesium bodies for robustness, they have lesser dust/moisture sealing than the D200, they do not have a push-button function dial for fast-accurate selection of ISO, etc (try doing that by using a turn-dial when you have to keep your head down with bullets flying in a war zone for example).

My point is not that Nikon's consumer DSLRs are in any way bad, but they are not in the same league as the professional DX models (D200/D300) for usability and handling. Surely, if you and others appearing here are so in love with the D300 you should welcome the concept of evolution based on the beloved D300.

Your comment regarding Nikon coming out with a new model just for the sake of coming out with a new model makes no sense whatsoever considering that the D600 was released for the sake of coming out with an FX consumer model, the D40X came out for the sake of increasing the pixel count of the D40 (but not even achieving any better picture quality), the D3200 came out for the sake of introducing a new sensor in a perfectly good D3100, etc. The point here is that Nikon has brought out incremental improvements to their cameras over a number of years, but the one camera they have not evolved since 2009 is their professional DX model.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Sat 29-Dec-12 03:34 AM
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#15. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 9


Wethersfield, US
          

Now you're making a little more sense. I still think you undervalue the D300/D300S as an upgrade to the D200, but so be it.

I'm not at all averse to an upgraded DX body. I want one, too, but in a large-body form like a D2X/D3. I'll be surprised if that happens, but if it doesn't, I won't take it personally.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberFri 28-Dec-12 09:50 PM
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#5. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Powder Springs, US
          

Buy a D800 and shoot in crop mode? I have read that the IQ rivals digital MF. That would be the best of both worlds for me. That's how I will hopefully go next year.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 12:17 AM
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#8. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 5
Sat 29-Dec-12 08:37 PM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

>> “Buy a D800 and shoot in crop mode?”

We DX shooters hear this recommendation quite a bit.

I think that a significant number of the people pining for a D400 tend to shoot small subjects at a distance. Birders are a good example.

One big downside, that I think it is very important, of shooting FX and cropping or shooting in DX mode is that those small subjects appear very small in the FX viewfinder.

Using a DX camera the narrower field-of-view is magnified to fill the viewfinder. Using an FX camera that DX field-of-view comprises of only about half of the overall viewfinder area.

Say I am shooting a nesting bird feeding its young.

If nest fills a little less than half of my D300 viewfinder; I can still clearly observe the movements of the birds and determine just the right moment to take my shot.

When shooting that same scene using a D800 and the same lens the nest now fills just a tiny portion of the viewfinder. It will be much more difficult for me to observe the bird’s behavior in this smaller viewfinder area.

So, it isn’t really all about resolution and the ability crop.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com | My Crated Gallery
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberSat 29-Dec-12 12:41 AM
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#11. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 8


Powder Springs, US
          

I can see that. At an air show I will have a long lens and D300 on one shoulder and D700 on the other. I shoot aerials with both eyes open and can appreciate a larger image.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Sat 29-Dec-12 03:40 AM
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#16. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 8


Wethersfield, US
          

That's a good explanation of the need. A similar issue crops up (bad pun) with sports shooting. But for sports I really want the large body because the majority of my shooting is in portrait mode and the small-body-plus-grip approach is a compromise.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 05:30 PM
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#40. "DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 8
Mon 31-Dec-12 05:31 PM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

Here is an illustration of the viewfinder issue I discussed in post #8 above.

This image was shot at 800mm at an aperture of f/5.6







Here is the final image. This can still easily produce a nice 8” x 12” print. I could probably go up to 10” x 15” without much problem.


click image for larger view.


Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com | My Crated Gallery
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 07:42 PM
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#47. "RE: DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 40


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>Here is an illustration of the viewfinder issue I discussed
>in post #8 above.
>
>This image was shot at 800mm at an aperture of f/5.6
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Here is the final image. This can still easily produce a nice
>8” x 12” print. I could probably go up to 10” x 15” without
>much problem.
>
>
>click image for larger view.
>
>
>
Precisely, Dave. This is one of the big advantages that a true DX body will give. There's nothing wrong with extoling and admiring the DX capabilities of the D600/D800, as some have done in this post, but a true DX body still has some workflow advantages over such FX models.

Awesome image, by the way. Thanks for sharing this image as well as that information.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 31-Dec-12 07:55 PM
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#48. "RE: DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 47


Tallahassee, US
          

Save for a VERY small difference in DOF, this is no different than putting a modern 1.4x on a lens. Essentially same view, essentially same performance. And I can ABSOLUTELY guarantee you that Lens X + 1.4x tele on a D800/D600 would outperform Lens X on a D200. ISO performance, AF performance, Dynamic Range, color depth, etc. And since you'd be working at 36MP or 24MP you'd have superior cropping ability, and ability to print larger and more cleanly should you want to.

And that solution is available today. No waiting.

-P

>Precisely, Dave. This is one of the big advantages that a
>true DX body will give. There's nothing wrong with extoling
>and admiring the DX capabilities of the D600/D800, as some
>have done in this post, but a true DX body still has some
>workflow advantages over such FX models.
>
>Awesome image, by the way. Thanks for sharing this image as
>well as that information.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 10:48 PM
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#52. "RE: DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 48


Lowden, US
          

The problem with that solution is that the 1.4TC (and the 1.7TC and the 2.0TC) work just as well with the DX camera - stiill giveing you a 1.5x nerrower feild-of-view. You can say get a longer lens, but no matter how long the lens (800mm + 2x TC) it will still give me that narrower feild-of-view.


You show me a lens that gets the same 1200mm (FX) feild of view AND f/5.6 and that argument may hold water.

This "small" feild of view differance might not be a significant for YOUR shooting (sports?) but it can be quite significant when shooting small birds.

Also, The loss of real light from using a TC is not always made up for by the ability to use a higher ISO. Maybe it is different with when shooting sports but real light is more important in nature.

The next suggestion is always “get closer to your subject.”

Well, with nature photography there are several barriers to getting closer that the photographer cannot control. If we get to close we risk changing the behavior of our subject, putting our subjects in physical danger or putting the photographer in physical danger. We often have physical barriers such as water, steep cliffs or privet property boundaries between us and our subject. So, getting closer is not always an option.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Mon 31-Dec-12 09:04 PM
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#50. "RE: DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 47


US
          

This is indeed a real issue. One "sorta" remedy is a Dk-17m, used on the FX body only during DX operation. Only "sorta" because it still will be smaller, and you may have trouble seeing the info panels. But still worth a try!

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 10:51 PM
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#53. "RE: DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 50


Lowden, US
          

That is a good work around.

I would guess that in the future electronic viewfinders will be good enough to completely replace optical ones (I don’t think we are there yet) and we will be able to control the viewfinder image magnification without interfering with the info display.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com | My Crated Gallery
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Mon 31-Dec-12 11:57 PM
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#54. "RE: DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 53


US
          

Yup, I use a Dk-17m permanently on my D1H and D1x, which simply cropped the F5/F100 viewfinder down to DX. I can't tell the difference between it and an originally larger viewfinder. The viewfinder image with it installed is roughly the size of that of a D300. It's larger and clearer than that of the D200.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Tue 01-Jan-13 01:18 AM
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#57. "RE: DX vs FX viewfinder"
In response to Reply # 54


Lowden, US
          

Thanks, that is good to know!

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com | My Crated Gallery
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 28-Dec-12 10:11 PM
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#6. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Colorado Springs, US
          

I'm not one of them, but as an owner of a NEX-7 and a Sony RX100, I can tell you that neither is remotely close to a D7000 for the attributes normally associated with a higher end DX body. They have very nice nice image quality, and I like them tremendously for certain kinds of travel, but I would never use them as a replacement for a DSLR. Never.

As for whether Nikon comes out with a D400, I don't think so. A more likely scenario is an enhancement to the D7000 class of cameras, ideally sharing as many components and software with the D600 as possible (the D600 already put them on that trajectory). I don't see any company really going after the D400 niche right now; they're all headed in different directions. That doesn't mean I don't understand why some photographers really want one, but it doesn't appear to be recognized by any of the camera companies.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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grizzly200 Registered since 18th Dec 2011Sat 29-Dec-12 01:31 AM
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#12. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Solano County, California, US
          

1) In my opinion, the D300 is a great improvement over the D200.

2) Dealing with a camera's limitations and still making great pictures is part of the fun of photography (By the way, as a converted film person, being able to shoot at ISO 1600 and 3200 and getting satisfying results is fantastic!)

James

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 11:13 AM
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#17. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 12


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Whether or not the D300 was a great improvement over the D200 is a point we could discuss, debate and argue about all day. The problem is that the D300 was a replacement for the D200 -- a replacement between 3 to 5 years ago and Nikon has done nothing to develop the pro DX line since then.

The D300 is a good camera, but so was the D200. The point I have been trying to make is that I would have liked to (and have had the gift/financial opportunity to) upgrade to a a newer updated model in this line - one that has all the latest advancements in it. Nikon has largely missed the boat on this ...not for my sake (I am nothing to Nikon), but for the sector of photography I am a part of; i.e., advanced amateur/semi-pro user.

If you are reading this and feeling defensive about Nikon's product release strategy, or lack of strategy, in the pro DX sector, or just fancy making a contrary point of view, perhaps you should look at the models Canon has released in the past 5 years. After considering the plethora of advanced DX models Canon has released (and had successful sales with), then perhaps Nikon's release strategy does not look so wonderful.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Sat 29-Dec-12 01:05 PM
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#19. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 17


US
          

Hi Steve,

If you had suggested trading in your Nikon gear for a 7D, I would have better understood your post. You still haven't addressed Rick's point that the cameras you are considering don't solve the problem.

I do agree with you to the extent that I think Nikon has abdicated the "D400 market" to the 7D although I don't know enough about the 7D to say that it fully solves that problem. It does have the basic spec many of us want- weathered sealed metal body, image quality and sensor density as good as the D7000 or thereabouts, 8fps with a 15-20+ frame buffer.

I personally do not need a D400 bad enough to fund that switch and deal with other differences between the systems.

Around here, most birders are shooting a 7D and 100-400 IS, which Nikon has no competitive answer for. It is obvious to me that Nikon no longer wants that birder market.

I'd also need to resign as a mod here if I did that, and that couldn't stand

_________________________________
Neil


my Nikonians gallery.

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 09:57 PM
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#21. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 19


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Hi Neil,

I guess I had not considered the Canon alternatives due to a quirk of personal history - my older brother has always chosen Canon, but as his younger sibling I just had to be different by using Nikon!

This evening I have enjoyed watching the amazing film 'Red Tails', which is George Lucas' production about the courageous Tuskegee Airmen. Interestingly, in the credits at the end of the film it states that additional filming and photography were done using Canon 5D and 7D. That's the first time I have seen this in a major cinematic production. Clearly the 7D has a lot to commend it.

The only reason I am considering the NEX-7 and RX100 is that they seem to be populating both the product award tables and also many competition winning shots right now. The OM-D also appeals to me because as well as being a superb camera it harks back to the retro design of one of my favourite cameras ever - the OM1.

The reality is that none of those camera are in the same league as the D300 (or even the D200 in many ways), so they would not be a real substitute for the missing D400. I freely admit that I am sore about the way Nikon seems to have abandoned its pro DX users. I am just plain fed up with waiting and waiting for something that may never arrive.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Sun 30-Dec-12 06:14 AM
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#22. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 21


Tallahassee, US
          

Please let me address a few points here.

1. Some of us "bought into a system" with the F4/F5. Guess where that led?
2. Some of us bought into a system with the D2x. And of course that gave way to the D3.
3. After shooting the D800 and D600, I could now care less about a D400. Nikon missed the boat for me.

I'll address the rest in-line.

>Hi Neil,
>
>I guess I had not considered the Canon alternatives due to a
>quirk of personal history - my older brother has always chosen
>Canon, but as his younger sibling I just had to be different
>by using Nikon!

Canon is in EXACTLY the same position, but with sensors that are not as good. The 7D is aging and in need of upgrading just as the D300 is. It's performance is no better.

>This evening I have enjoyed watching the amazing film 'Red
>Tails', which is George Lucas' production about the courageous
>Tuskegee Airmen. Interestingly, in the credits at the end of
>the film it states that additional filming and photography
>were done using Canon 5D and 7D. That's the first time I have
>seen this in a major cinematic production. Clearly the 7D has
>a lot to commend it.

The 7D has nothing more to recommend it than a D300s unless you want to shoot video And the only stuff in Red Tails shot on a 7D is the cockpit stuff and the gun cameras. The 7D is absolutely trounced in nearly every measure of performance by the D7000. I doubt VERY much that Lucas would have chosen the 7D if he were starting production today. 3-4 years ago, it was a solid choice.


>The reality is that none of those camera are in the same
>league as the D300 (or even the D200 in many ways), so they
>would not be a real substitute for the missing D400. I freely
>admit that I am sore about the way Nikon seems to have
>abandoned its pro DX users. I am just plain fed up with
>waiting and waiting for something that may never arrive.

Then don't wait. When pro users lost DX in the D2x -> D3 move, they simply added the 1.4x tele, and went about their business. The 1 stop loss of light was functionally erased by the increased ISO performance of the FX sensor. The D3s pushed that even further. The D800 and D3 stack up quite closely in terms of ISO performance, with the D800 giving MUCH better dynamic range, and vastly superior cropping ability. The D600 pushes the ISO envelop to the same level as a D3s when producing the same size output.

The solutions are there....

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005Sun 30-Dec-12 09:21 PM
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#26. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 17
Sun 30-Dec-12 09:23 PM by LMMiller9

Potomac, US
          

Steve,

I would just like to add this: like you, I consider myself an "advanced amateur", I would not add the "semi-pro" for myself. I also bought into a system when I bought my first D100, which was my entry into DSLR cameras.

I do not feel unserved at all. "The System" has migrated to a much more capable technology with the FX sensors, just as a pentium chip has been left beyond by Intel quad four, etc., technology. I think Nikon is correctly making the judgment that folks like you and I will want to migrate to FX because it presents many possibilities that just cannot be met by a APS-C sensor.

Why not make that jump? OK, so you will have a few lenses that will not be ideal for an FX camera. Big deal. Move on. There is not great advantage to sticking with DX and you are giving up a lot of potential gains. By coming out with the D800 and then the D600 they are putting an incredibly advanced camera in you lap that does things a D400 will not do. Since I bought the D700 I never picked up my D300 again, and then the same when I got the D800.

Consider that maybe it is your "idea" that is holding you back. That idea being that the system is defined by DX.

Just my two cents.

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 07:55 PM
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#49. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 26


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>I would just like to add this: like you, I consider myself an
>"advanced amateur", I would not add the
>"semi-pro" for myself. I also bought into a system
>when I bought my first D100, which was my entry into DSLR
>cameras.

Hi Larry, thanks for your input. Your two cents are equally as valid as mine.

I would consider myself primarily an advanced amateur. However, occasionally I make a few pounds/bucks from selling an image. Therefore, the only reason I mention the term semi-pro is that although I do not earn my living from photography, I have supplemented my earnings when I have been fortunate enough to do so.


>Why not make that jump? OK, so you will have a few lenses that
>will not be ideal for an FX camera. Big deal. Move on. There
>is not great advantage to sticking with DX and you are giving
>up a lot of potential gains. By coming out with the D800 and
>then the D600 they are putting an incredibly advanced camera
>in you lap that does things a D400 will not do. Since I bought
>the D700 I never picked up my D300 again, and then the same
>when I got the D800.

Picking up the D800 could be a moot point, since it is likely to be heavier than the envisaged D400. But seriously, I have to disagree with you on there not being a great advantage of sticking with DX. Please see Dave Summer's (dm1dave) excellent visual explanation in thread #40 of this post. The FX viewfinder presentation of DX is not always as useful as in a true DX body - and some of us actually embrace the combination of visual workflow + crop factor.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Sat 29-Dec-12 02:56 AM
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#13. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

My D300 pretty much fills what I want out of a camera right now, but I'm very sympathetic with Steve's argument. Like he says, I bought into a system, and I'd like to think that when I'm ready to upgrade cameras I'll be able to get one that's better in every respect. I'd rather have a body like a D300 than a D7000.

So, I hope Nikon doesn't leave users like Steve (and me?) who bought into the higher end of the DX system behind.

Randy

  

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plankowner110 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Apr 2004Sat 29-Dec-12 01:04 PM
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#18. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 13


Ohio, US
          

Enjoying a hobby for 50 years requires some investment and re-investment as technology changes. I bought my first Nikon F in 1970 (followed by F3, FM2n, and F100) and a few years ago made the switch to the D300 and some DX lenses. Photography is an expensive hobby, but it costs less than keeping a classic '63 Buick running!

Bill
D300

  

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Martin Turner Moderator Expert professional PJ & PR photographer Nikonian since 19th Jun 2006Sat 29-Dec-12 06:45 PM
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"RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."


Bidford on Avon, GB
          

We D2X shooters were in this position four years ago. The step to the D3 meant abandoning DX lenses including the enormously expensive 17-55 f2.8, the 10-24 and the 10.5 fisheye. Of course, they still work on the D2X, which is the main reason why I keep it as my main backup camera.

Nikon's high end cameras are beginning to specialise again, after they generalised with the D3. The D800 gives MF level resolution and image quality, the D4 gives unheard of ISO performance.

I've looked at a number of DX cameras which are smaller and lighter than the D2X and yet have better performance in every department.I would love to have something as small and light as my old OM 1.

It's always disappointing when technology branches and one has bet on the wrong branch. I had a lot of Mac OS9 software that never got upgraded to OSX. I still run Photoshop CS2 because CS3 isn't compatible with Focus Magic, which is worth the price of a whole computer. Unfortunately my next Mac almost certainly won't support Rosetta. I may have to keep a computer going which does.

M A R T I N • T U R N E R
http://art.martinturner.org.uk
http://www.martinturner.org.uk

Nikonians membership: my most important photographic investment, after the camera

My Nikonians blog, Learning from the Portrait Masters, http://blog.nikonians.org/martin_turner/

  

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Scotty Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Feb 2002Sun 30-Dec-12 07:42 AM
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#23. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Ely, Cambridgeshire, GB
          

After 3 years of shooting pro with a D200 I have just invested in a used D2Xs and couldn't be happier...

D2Xs + AF20-35mm f2.8 + AF35-70mm f2.8 + AF80-200mm f2.8

or

FE + Nikkor 50mm f1.8 AIS

Hunger pays a heavy price to the shining Gods of speed and steel

Check out my website...
http://alexjpscott.wix.com/photography

LIKE me on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/AlexJPScottPhotography

Follow my blog...

http://alexjpscottphotography.blogspot.co.uk/


Look me up on Flickr...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alex_jp_scott/


Alex

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Sun 30-Dec-12 02:23 PM
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#24. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 30-Dec-12 02:28 PM by dagoldst

Little Rock, US
          

I went with the D600 as the "D400". Really, with the current combination of lens and body,(in the USA anyway), you get a heck of a lot for your money.

That said, I understand exactly what you are saying about the D400 - and I kind of wonder if it will ever arrive. I could see Nikon eventually introducing a D400/500 over the next few years, all FX based.

Interesting to note - my D200 is 10mpix and my D600, with my DX lenses mounted, yields 10 mpix in APS size images with all the advantages of more DR, unbelievably better high ISO, faster frame rate, etc, etc - and I don't have the feeling that my DX lenses are going to waste as some others do. The lenses are paid for and still perform well.

On the build quality - that was my only hesitation, but now, having shot the D600 for several weeks, I can see it is well built. I even gave it a hard rap a while back, (quite accidentally), and it's still ticking. Being based on the D7000 technologies, I think we are looking at a camera as robust as other DX00 cameras...

Just a perspective...

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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Jim 1957 Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Oct 2005Sun 30-Dec-12 09:14 PM
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#25. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 24


Corinth, US
          

I spent months waiting for a D400, checking all the rumor sites almost daily. I shot an indoor rodeo last year and was not happy with the results, ISO 1600 is really the limit for my D300. I had to use 3200 to stop the action and while the pictures were ok for viewing they made my NAS kick into overdrive. What I ended up doing was getting a D3, it is a huge step up from the D300 and offers what my style of shooting requires. Yes I lost some crop factor, but with the low light performance I gained I can get most of that back if I need it with a teleconverter. I am sad to see Nikon not pursue a Pro type DX body, but I am happy with my new camera. My wife is very happy with her hand me down D300 also.

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 11:13 AM
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#27. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 25
Mon 31-Dec-12 11:14 AM by sabre

Bedfordshire, GB
          

Hi Jim,

I am interested to hear that your D300 could achieve ISO 1600 for low light performance. Over the years I have read all sorts of claims in this respect in the forums. Some have claimed 3200 and higher, but fewer have admitted to 1600 (or lower).

The general consensus by D300 owners appears to be that the D300 is a significant advancement over the D200 in many respects, but I just don't see that. Regarding low light performance, my D200 max's out at ISO 800 - after that the digital noise starts to become an issue. Although the D300's ISO 1600 is clearly better than ISO 800 it is not really much of an advancement over the D200's performance.

This is one of the significant reasons why I have been hanging on for a D400 rather than trading up to the 3-4 year old D300 model, which I admit is a better camera, but which I also maintain is not that much of an advancement over the D200.

Your D3 sounds wonderful and I am really glad to hear that your wife has been able to enjoy the D300 (my wife has a D3100).

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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Jim 1957 Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Oct 2005Mon 31-Dec-12 04:55 PM
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#38. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 27


Corinth, US
          

Steve,

I never owned a D200, however my Son does and he says that ISO 800 is about as fast as he can shoot without appreciable noise. Talking with him though I think the D300 is still a vast improvement over the D200. The autofocus on the D300 is what attracted me in the first place, it's the same as on the D3. The ability to shoot 8 fps with the grip is another plus for air shows, jousting, and birds. My D3 with its additional processing power makes the CAM 3500 autofocus really sing, but it was great on the D300. It's a tough decision and seeing 24 & 36 megapixel bodies made me really question what my needs were. For awhile I thought of the D600 or D800 in DX crop mode for greater frame rate while still getting much improved low light performance. I also considered the D3s, but movie's don't interest me and while it's sensor is much improved it's commanding around $1200 more than a D3 and you are getting about 1 stop better. That didn't seem worth it to me. I am very happy with 12 megapixels for my needs mostly 8X10's and an occasional 13X19. What sold me on my choice was a very rugged weather sealed design with long battery life a 1.8 stop improvement (according to DXO mark) and 9 fps. Good luck in your quest for your new body.

Jim

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 11:24 AM
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#28. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 24


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Thanks for your perspective, David.

I am watching closely the feedback from D600 users, because I have been wondering about the quality of build and robustness of the D600 body.

As well as its amazing robustness, one of the things I really enjoy about my current D200 is the weather-sealing. Whilst I would never deliberately expose it to a good drenching, there have been times when I have been caught out in torrential downpours and my D200 has had a thorough rain soaking, but it has never let a single drop of water in to its body and has just kept on working fine.

I would be interested to hear if any D600 users have risked exposing their cameras to very heavy rain yet and if they suffered any problems as a result. Being a Nikon consumer range body, the D600 (and D7000) is alleged to have lesser weather sealing than the D200/D300. I wonder what that actually means in reality.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Mon 31-Dec-12 11:57 AM
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#29. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 28


Little Rock, US
          

> I really enjoy about my current D200 is the weather-sealing

Actually, all of these cameras are not meant to be out in a downpour without protection. They are moisture sealed, not weatherproofed. Here is from NikonUSA's website on the flagship D4....

"Thorough measures are taken to seal and protect against invasive moisture, dust and electromagnetic interference."

That said, my old D70s was exposed to lots of hostile weather, including winters in England and Yosemite without any problems, (I never let it get soaked, nor my D200). I can't really imagine the D600 having any more issues when used properly - I have already gotten mine a bit wet during the recent heavy snows we had here in Arkansas over Xmas without problems.

David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 31-Dec-12 12:08 PM
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#30. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 28


Atlanta, US
          

Steve

I'm probably a bad person to ask since the weather seals failed me on the D300. There are so many small buttons and openings that weather sealing really has limits. I don't see a lot of difference in the D600.

You know, as soon as you commit to an alternate direction, the D400 or equivalent will be announced.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 02:29 PM
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#31. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 30


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>"as soon as you commit to an alternate direction, the D400 or equivalent will be announced"

...there might be a lot of truth in that statement, Eric.

In the last few minutes my wife has returned from a shopping trip to the local mall. She visited our local branch of Jessops (Britain's largest retail photography equipment seller) and asked about the D300S - because she knows I am feeling so miffed about this whole situation.

Two members of staff spoke with her and they said that they are no longer selling the D300S because Nikon has now starved the supply pipeline. They said that they are waiting to hear from head office in the new year about a replacement model which will succeed the D300S. One of them speculated that this might be the "long awaited D400". They had both been told by their area manager that they will be given details of a new model in the latter half of January.

Of course, this could be pure speculation, but I have found the employees of this local Jessops branch to be professional in their approach and well-informed about product releases; e.g., last summer they told me that a new advanced class-beating Sony compact would be released imminently, then just a few days later the RX100 was announced.

I have just looked at Amazon UK and notice that their normally healthy stock of D300S bodies has dwindled to just two ...and the usual 'more stock expected' flag is not showing. Other large suppliers seem to have increased the discount they are giving on the D300S. Could this be to clear stocks?

I have to avoid raising my expectations too much here, but I do feel a little excited and am considering doing a Janis Joplin by dropping to my knees and singing "Lord won't you release me a D400" (sung to the tune of 'Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz')...!

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 31-Dec-12 03:00 PM
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#32. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 28


Tallahassee, US
          

>Thanks for your perspective, David.
>
>I am watching closely the feedback from D600 users, because I
>have been wondering about the quality of build and robustness
>of the D600 body.

I don't notice any significant build quality between my D600, and most of my other cameras. The D600 is at least equal to my D200 in terms of build and the capability is totally in a different league. To me, there are really only three levels of build in the Nikon lineup. The consumer stuff like the D3100 or equivalent, the D600/800/700/etc., and the pro bodies.


>As well as its amazing robustness, one of the things I really
>enjoy about my current D200 is the weather-sealing. Whilst I
>would never deliberately expose it to a good drenching, there
>have been times when I have been caught out in torrential
>downpours and my D200 has had a thorough rain soaking, but it
>has never let a single drop of water in to its body and has
>just kept on working fine.

The D600 is built to at least the same standard, if not better. That said, I would not subject ANY of my Nikon camera's to a downpour. And that includes by full-sized pro bodies.

>I would be interested to hear if any D600 users have risked
>exposing their cameras to very heavy rain yet and if they
>suffered any problems as a result.

I have not and I would not. But that is not because I feel the D600 is built to any poor standard.

>Being a Nikon consumer
>range body, the D600 (and D7000) is alleged to have lesser
>weather sealing than the D200/D300. I wonder what that
>actually means in reality.

I honestly think this is a misnomer. Holding a D200 in one hand, and holding a D600 in the other, the D600 strikes me as clearly the better built camera. I'd say the same for my D200 vs my D7000.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 03:55 PM
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#34. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 32
Mon 31-Dec-12 03:58 PM by sabre

Bedfordshire, GB
          

>I honestly think this is a misnomer. Holding a D200 in one
>hand, and holding a D600 in the other, the D600 strikes me as
>clearly the better built camera. I'd say the same for my D200
>vs my D7000.

Hi Perrone,

Thanks for your feedback. I have to say that I am a little puzzled though, because the D200 has a full magnesium alloy body with weather sealing, but the D600 and D7000 only have part magnesium alloy bodies, although the D600 is weather-sealed to the same level as the D800.

My D200 has so far survived two war zones (with shelling debris, scrabbling around in foxholes, etc) and is still feeling quite solid. Its professional build has stood up to temperatures from -33℃ (-27℉ ) up to +51℃ (124℉ ). It has also had a thorough drenching in rain (not by choice!) on more than one occasion.

I am curious as to which aspects of your D600 and D7000 you feel exhibit a better build than your D200. I have not played with a D600 yet, but I have borrowed a D7000 which was a lovely camera, but it did feel a little 'plasticky' compared to the D200.

Of course, the D200 is now 6½ years old (well, mine is anyway) and subsequent newer bodies (such as the D7000 and D600) will surely incorporate lessons learned in build quality, but the D200 was built to the higher quality standards of the Nikon Professional range of bodies.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 31-Dec-12 04:59 PM
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#39. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 34


Tallahassee, US
          

>Hi Perrone,
>
>Thanks for your feedback. I have to say that I am a little
>puzzled though, because the D200 has a full magnesium alloy
>body with weather sealing, but the D600 and D7000 only have
>part magnesium alloy bodies, although the D600 is
>weather-sealed to the same level as the D800.

Meh.

>My D200 has so far survived two war zones (with shelling
>debris, scrabbling around in foxholes, etc) and is still
>feeling quite solid. Its professional build has stood up to
>temperatures from -33℃ (-27℉ ) up to
>+51℃ (124℉ ). It has also had a thorough
>drenching in rain (not by choice!) on more than one occasion.

I have not used my cameras in a war zone. Nor have I had to use them in temperature extremes as you've mentioned here. Though I do suspect that my at least on of my cameras got VERY hot last year when used as a remote in the sun all day here in Florida last May.

>I am curious as to which aspects of your D600 and D7000 you
>feel exhibit a better build than your D200. I have not played
>with a D600 yet, but I have borrowed a D7000 which was a
>lovely camera, but it did feel a little 'plasticky' compared
>to the D200.

To my "hand" the D600 feels less cheap. Maybe it's the plastics, or textures, or something else. Or maybe it's just that I don't use the D200 enough in hand to be making a fair comparison.

>Of course, the D200 is now 6½ years old (well, mine is anyway)
>and subsequent newer bodies (such as the D7000 and D600) will
>surely incorporate lessons learned in build quality,

> but the
>D200 was built to the higher quality standards of the Nikon
>Professional range of bodies.

I keep hearing statements like this made about the D200/D300 and D700. But I can say without hesitation that NONE of these cameras felt anything CLOSE to my full-sized pro bodies. So I don't know if that's marketing, wishful thinking, or what. I shot my D3s last night again for the first time in a month or more. Shot it with a 24-70 and shot the D600 with the 300/2.8 on it. My D600 is gripped as are all my non-fullsize bodies. It was close enough for me to not notice the camera differences.

I can certainly understand if you feel your D200 is built better than a D600 or D800. My feeling is different, but that doesn't really matter. It's your wallet and your choice. But it's my bet that if you drop coin on a D600 or D800, your D200 will quickly become a distant memory.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Mon 31-Dec-12 06:12 PM
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#43. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 39
Mon 31-Dec-12 06:18 PM by ZoneV

US
          

>I keep hearing statements like this made about the D200/D300
>and D700. But I can say without hesitation that NONE of these
>cameras felt anything CLOSE to my full-sized pro bodies. So I
>don't know if that's marketing, wishful thinking, or what. I
>shot my D3s last night again for the first time in a month or
>more. Shot it with a 24-70 and shot the D600 with the 300/2.8
>on it. My D600 is gripped as are all my non-fullsize bodies.
>It was close enough for me to not notice the camera
>differences.

In my opinion, the accessory girps are the problem. I love the feel of my D1H/x. But the D200 with grip feels cheap. With the plastic MB-D200 attached, it flexes, and there's a definite seam and difference in texture as you go down the right hand grip. So I basically don't use the grip on my D200. The result: the D200 without grip feels almost as sturdy as the D# series bodies, just smaller. But I have pretty average-size hands, so the D200 just barely fits well without the grip. I can get all my fingers around it, so it's not an issue like it would be for someone with big hands. Bottom line: if you can go gripless, it feels sturdier without the accessory vertical grip (D200/MB-D200). I usually use short lenses on the D200, but if I used long lens, I'd probably want the grip on it.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Mon 31-Dec-12 07:23 PM
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#44. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 43


Tallahassee, US
          

My bottom line: If there's no grip on these cameras, they are remotes, or they stay home. The D3s is *almost* large enough for me. Not quite, but close. Shooting on anything besides a full bodies camera is just a lesson in pain management. The D7000 becomes unbearable in 30 minutes, the D800 takes an hour or so.

Fortunately, in most sports I can put the cameras down and give my hand a break. Soccer is the absolutely WORST with constant action, and no timeouts. Basketball has been relatively easy, but with no monopods, it's a PITA on the long glass.

The grips on the D800 and D600 are wonderful by the way. The grip on my D200 is not a Nikon grip. I bought it used with the aftermarket grip already installed.

-P

>Bottom line: if you can
>go gripless, it feels sturdier without the accessory vertical
>grip (D200/MB-D200). I usually use short lenses on the D200,
>but if I used long lens, I'd probably want the grip on it.

------
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Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Mon 31-Dec-12 09:12 PM
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#51. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 44
Mon 31-Dec-12 09:17 PM by ZoneV

US
          

Is it your fingers, or the palm part of your hand, or both that is larger than average? I would guess that your (large) hand in relation to a D3s would likely not be larger than my average hand in relation to a D200...if anything, likely a bit smaller.

I know I have an average size hand, because I can almost, but not quite, palm a basketball. I once measured my hand against the hand of a buddy who is a few inches taller, and we had the exact same size hand. But I know there are taller guys with larger hands out there. To me, either the pro/integrated grip or semi-pro/non-gripped bodies feel fine. My fingers fit on both types, even if my palm doesn't on the D200. The workout golves I am wearing right now (which always run 1-2 sizes small) are XL.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Mon 31-Dec-12 03:44 PM
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#33. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 28


Vancouver, CA
          

>Thanks for your perspective, David.
>
>I am watching closely the feedback from D600 users, because I
>have been wondering about the quality of build and robustness
>of the D600 body.
>
>As well as its amazing robustness, one of the things I really
>enjoy about my current D200 is the weather-sealing. Whilst I
>would never deliberately expose it to a good drenching, there
>have been times when I have been caught out in torrential
>downpours and my D200 has had a thorough rain soaking, but it
>has never let a single drop of water in to its body and has
>just kept on working fine.
>
>I would be interested to hear if any D600 users have risked
>exposing their cameras to very heavy rain yet and if they
>suffered any problems as a result. Being a Nikon consumer
>range body, the D600 (and D7000) is alleged to have lesser
>weather sealing than the D200/D300. I wonder what that
>actually means in reality.

I'm testing a D600 right now, I have to send it back to Nikon on the 2nd but I've had it for 30 days. It's not the same camera as the D200... it's everything and more. The build quality is close enough that I wouldn't worry about it.

There still are O-rings (rubber protection) on the card door and battery door. All the I/O doors are sealed. I don't know about the buttons but at the very least they will have a rubber membrane behind them. Most lenses these days are weather sealed, so the mount is still protected. I've used non-weather sealed camera bodies in very poor west coast weather, and not one has ever been damaged as a result. It's got a Mg Alloy top and bottom plate.

It's not quite as big, but that doesn't make it any less of a camera. It is a very worthy upgrade to the D200. In fact, with the exception of the AF sensors I think it's a worthy upgrade from the D700.


~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 04:06 PM
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#35. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 33


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Hi Allan,

That's excellent information about the D600. Thanks. From the D600 specifications and the feedback from yourself, Perrone and others, I have no doubt that the D600 is technically light years ahead of the now-ancient D200. The very fact that it can do DX at the same resolution as the D200 is quite amazing. If I were to choose this body as a replacement for my D200 I would have the best of both worlds - FX and DX.

...however, if you see my response to Eric in thread #31 above, a small flicker of a flame of hope still holds out in my heart for a D400. Will my hopes be fulfilled, or will they be smashed onto the rocks of despair? We may know in the next few days.

At the moment my plan B would seem to be a D600 - that's if I choose to reward Nikon for its abandonment of Pro DX!

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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rutherfordphoto Awarded for his article contributions to the Resources Registered since 27th Aug 2002Mon 31-Dec-12 04:17 PM
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#36. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 35


Vancouver, CA
          

>Hi Allan,

>
...At the moment my plan B would seem to be a D600 - that's if I
>choose to reward Nikon for its abandonment of Pro DX!

Abandonment? I think technological progress is more correct. From a price and feature standpoint, there's no room for a Pro DX in the lineup. The Pro DX cameras were approx $2000 when they were released, can't do that now, that's where the D600 lies. Any cheaper and you really cramp the D7000 style. Sorry, but I really think the days of DX are numbered but that's a discussion for a different thread.

Since the introduction of the Nikon D1, photographers have been begging Nikon for Full Frame. You bought one camera in that system, what about those who started with DX at it's inception? I've used the D1, D1X, D2H, D2X, D100, D200, and D300. When the D3/D700 were introduced, rejoicing was heard throughout the land. Sold my 17-55 and 12-24 and bought a 17-35. That was it, end of transition.

I know how you're feeling... I just can't don't see it in my crystal ball

~Cheers, Allan~
www.allanschroeder.com

  

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Ferguson Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Aug 2004Mon 31-Dec-12 04:27 PM
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#37. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Cape Coral, US
          


I had a D300, I was a bit miffed at not having a replacement for it yet. I got over it with the D800.

All the glass I had in DX still works (and yes, you will then get the urge to replace it with FX glass, but it's a want, not a need).


So yes, I get it. But I'm very pleased with the D800 as an alternative to the planned D400. All the expected resolution in DX plus FX and lots more.


Linwood

Comments welcomed on pictures: Http://captivephotons.com

  

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spiritualized67 Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Mar 2007Mon 31-Dec-12 05:41 PM
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#41. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Western PA, US
          

Hi Steve,

I appreciate your candor - and you are well within your rights to express any frustration.

Respectfully, I'd have to agree with other posters who stated that the D300/300s was a significant upgrade to the D200. IMHO, this was a revolutionary (rather than evolutionary) upgrade, equally as significant as the introduction of the D3 (or D800, for that matter).

That being the case, I cannot help but feel that you're somewhat missing the whole point. Your camera is just a paintbrush and nothing more. Is your D200 somehow limiting your ability to creatively executive upon your vision? It's almost as if you're placing too much emphasis on the technology, and not enough on the artistic/creative side?

This is a loaded statement on my part - and I understand this. I cannot discount the fact that there have been significant technological enhancements since the D200, namely in the areas of low-light/high-ISO IQ, dynamic range, focus/color accuracy, Live View, movie mode, etc. And as we all evolve as photographers and start becoming more aware of any creative limitations inherent in our technology, then maybe it’s time to consider an upgrade at that point. For example, if you do a lot of low light work, you’ll surely benefit from some of the newer models (and who doesn't appreciate the latest and greatest).

Having come from the DX world myself, I finally gave up waiting and switched to FX. I’d be lying if I didn’t tell you that it was an investment, but I’m very happy I finally made the change.

As for buying into the system – I’d like to think that it’s less about any one specific camera model (or crop factor), and more about things like good glass/optics, good high ISO capability, Nikon build quality, etc. If these are the benchmarks you consider important, then you’ll find many other newer Nikon models that fit the bill very nicely – even if they don’t bear the D400 label, and even if they don’t match every single side-by-side specification that you envision. I think I’ve come to the conclusion that no one camera is 100% perfect for every situation – although manufacturers are getting closer to this ideal.

I cannot knock some of the fine cameras being produced by other manufacturers such as Sony or Canon, but I think you’ll be sorely disappointed to switch if your only reason for doing so is because you’re holding onto the idea of obtaining the perfect DX camera. Sure, the D300s (or D7000) are older (or are fast becoming older) models. But this is completely irrelevant when you consider that they’re both significant upgrades to the D200, and they’re both highly accomplished at producing amazing images. Some other models like the D600 and D700 are also highly competent if you're willing to switch to FX.

I think it’s safe to assume that today’s crop of cameras has capabilities that often exceed those of its users. So it really comes down to personal brand preference more than anything else. Switching brands won’t necessarily make you a better photographer, it will just give you a slightly different paintbrush to work with. Good luck in whatever you decide - I hope you find the camera happiness you seek.

~Dan
www.danielstainer.com

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 07:26 PM
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#45. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 41


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>Respectfully, I'd have to agree with other posters who stated that the D300/300s was a >significant upgrade to the D200

Hi Dan,

I can see your point and I respect what you are saying on this one, but I think it's one of those situations where we are going to agree to disagree.

I am heartened to read that you "finally gave up waiting". This confirms to me that I am not the only person who has somehow found themselves in this position of DX limbo.

Regarding your very fair point about placing too much emphasis on technology and not enough on the artistic/creative side, I would like to respond by making two points of my own:

1. When I purchase a camera for £2,000 (or whatever the USD or other currency equivalent is) I feel that I should be getting a fair amount of technology for my cash. I may choose to use as much or as little of that technology as I deem fit when I capture any specific image, but I would like to have that technology available. Otherwise, I might as well buy a box pinhole camera and save myself a wad of cash. The technology will not make me a better photographer, but it will open up possibilities to me that I might not easily have available; for example auto-bracketing rather than doing things step-by-step by the manual method.

2. When I press the shutter release I have followed a personal workflow. It may be as simple as turn on camera, aim at subject, wait for auto-focus, press shutter release. Equally, it may be a whole lot more complex than that, and it often is. Over the 6½ years I have been using my D200 (and I have used it to excess) I have built a strong workflow based on the Nikon Pro design; for example, changing mode options with the camera still up to my eye while bullets and bricks have been flying around my vicinity. I feel it is a reasonable hope on my part that I might be able to continue with that familiar workflow by updating to a newer Nikon Pro model which still has familiar controls that I know will work for me, rather than having to bend my workflow to fit with controls of the Nikon consumer models.

None of what I have said anywhere in this threading attacks or invalidates any of the other Nikon models, but those models might not fit with the operating expectations of me and others reading this. I know for sure (backed by what I have read in these forums) that I am not the only member here who feels disappointed that Nikon seems to have abandoned the Pro DX body line of cameras.

I still feel that if I have 'invested' my time and money in a line of cameras, it is not an unreasonable hope on my part to wish for a further evolution of that line.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Mon 31-Dec-12 06:04 PM
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#42. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 31-Dec-12 06:07 PM by ZoneV

US
          

Just pause and remember the natural disasters (3) that affected the Japanese companies (2 of which were in Japan). I keep reading that Nikon, Canon, Sony, et. al. are still to an extent affected by these events. They have caused delays in production/release of new cameras and lenses.

Your D400 may have originally been scheduled for Fall of 2012, but then got delayed a year. I'd give them one more year to make up for what was lost, and then if there's still no "D400" then, it's time to move on as you suggest.

It's not just Nikon...

Canon announced the EOS-1Dx 6 months ahead of when it actually shipped. Canon also announced the development their 200-400mm lens in Feb 2011. It still hasn't officially been announced, let alone released. Only prototypes exist.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Mon 31-Dec-12 07:35 PM
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#46. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 42


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>Just pause and remember the natural disasters (3) that
>affected the Japanese companies (2 of which were in Japan). I
>keep reading that Nikon, Canon, Sony, et. al. are still to an
>extent affected by these events. They have caused delays in
>production/release of new cameras and lenses.
>
>Your D400 may have originally been scheduled for Fall of 2012,
>but then got delayed a year. I'd give them one more year to
>make up for what was lost, and then if there's still no
>"D400" then, it's time to move on as you suggest.
>
>
...This is also a very valid and true point to consider in the midst of my selfish whinging. Maybe a D400 is still on the way. Please see my current faint glimmer of hope stated in thread #31 above. This might just fit with the type of delay you mention.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Tue 01-Jan-13 12:01 AM
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#55. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 46
Tue 01-Jan-13 12:03 AM by ZoneV

US
          

Yeah. And even if a D400 comes in the 4th quarter of 2013, you may be perfectly happy with the D7000 replacement--(and not want a D400 at all)--which would likely come before the D400. So by waiting a year, you're giving Nikon not one, but two chances, and therefore statistically you're doubling the chance of them coming out with something you will like.

The flip side: if Nikon fails to come out with another high-end DX camera within one year, then you can justfy the jump to something else.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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ZoneV Silver Member Nikonian since 08th Jan 2005Tue 01-Jan-13 12:17 AM
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#56. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

>I am feeling particularly miffed.

It's unfortunate that you feel that way.

>For 4 or more years I have
>been waiting for Nikon to release the D400; i.e., a logical
>successor to the D200/D300.

The D400 was due in the last quarter of 2011. The D300 came out in the last quarter of 2007. They're on a 3.5-year cycle. Your wait is only roughly one year overdue, not 4 years.

>1. When I purchased my D200 back in 2006 I had the reasonable
>expectation of enjoying it for several years and then
>replacing it with its latest successor. Nikon has chosen not
>to provide a successor beyond the D300 (which is long in the
>tooth now and is not that much of an improvement over the
>D200).

Up to 2010, a D300 or D300s made sense. After that, a D7000 made sense. but now it makes sense to wait just a bit longer for D400 and/or D7000 replacements, assuming you want to stay DX and not jump to a D600 instead.

>2. Nikon has chosen to chase down the route of FX rather than
>still developing DX for its professional bodies. This
>effectively abandons its D200/D300 users.

Personally, I agree with what they did. But I think a D400 (and not a D7100) should be their next introduction. It's overdue, as you said (but not as much overdue as everyone accuses Nikon of).


>Do I mean a competitor DSLR? Not necessarily. My D200 is so
>old that most new generation Compact System Cameras and
>advanced compacts can easily surpass it in terms of features
>and functions. Right now I am considering the Sony NEX7, Sony
>RX100, Olympus OM-D. If Nikon is not going to provide what I
>want, there are other camera brands out there that will -- or
>in fact that already do.

>I suspect that other D200 and D300 users might be feeling the
>same way as me right now. Are you one of them?

PSAM modes, AF, three metering modes, and TTL flash is really all I care about. I don't care about the newer features/gimmicks. I don't care about face detection or any new features like that, for example. What use are they??? The only thing I find lacking in the D200 is low-light performance. Everything else about the D200 is fine in my opinion.

An undeniable paradox: To think that there is any such thing as an absolute rule is at worst naïve, and at best, shortsighted. There is no such thing as an always-true, all context- or situation-salient, absolute rule that always holds true…including this one!

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Tue 01-Jan-13 01:37 AM
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#58. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 56


Bedfordshire, GB
          

>The only thing I find lacking in the D200 is low-light
>performance. Everything else about the D200 is fine in my
>opinion.

...well, my D200 has been excellent for the past 6½ years, but it feels distinctly high-mileage now.

As for new features, I would really like to see built-in WiFi and GPS. These could both be really useful.

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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jaclegau Registered since 28th Sep 2006Tue 01-Jan-13 09:20 PM
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#59. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Lachenaie, CA
          

Hi !

I am one of the many photographers who was waiting for a D400 but I got tired of waiting and bought a D800. I still have my D300 which I can use with the lenses I have and bought a 24-70mm fx lens and the other one will be the 70-200mm VRII. I still love my D300 and I know so much about it now that it would be foolish to sell it.

One of the thing that made me go with the D800 was a full 4 pages add in my newspaper that said :"Two letters are enough to define the photographer that you are: FX" Rest assure they do not define me but the mégapixels did and the words underlined that said do not wait for another DX pro model did. Hope I am wrong.


Jaclegau
Modérateur Nikonians
Nikonians®, l'endroit où rencontrer les photographes Nikon® du monde entier
"Partager, Apprendre et Inspirer..."

  

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jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Tue 01-Jan-13 09:46 PM
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#60. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 59


Wethersfield, US
          

>I am one of the many photographers who was waiting for a D400
>but I got tired of waiting and bought a D800.

So, Nikon's strategy worked! Or am I being too cynical?

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

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Bass rock Silver Member Nikonian since 21st Dec 2007Wed 02-Jan-13 08:25 AM
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#61. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 0


Scotland, GB
          

>Right now I am considering the Sony NEX7, Sony RX100, Olympus OM-D. If Nikon is not going to provide what I want, there are other camera brands out there that will -- or in fact that already do.
>
>I suspect that other D200 and D300 users might be feeling the same way as me right now. Are you one of them?

Very much so. I sold my D300 and bought a secondhand D700 when the D600 came out, and some secondhand D700s were going for low prices. I have sort of regretted it ever since. I would put my self in the same group "advanced amateur who sells the odd picture". For me, the benefits of FX do not overcome the added weight/bulk compared to DX. I know people talk about the smaller size of the D600, but when you look at the lenses (12-24 DX compared to 16-35 FX, for instance) there is a significant size disadvantage with full frame. I suspect for many amateurs who do not print larger than A3, there is no significant FF benefit to be had.

I pick up on your OM-D comment. For most of last year, I was shooting with a Panny GH2 and now have the latest GH3. This is largely why I have not been active on this forum. For me personally (and I know lots of people will disagree with this), the m43 cameras have replaced DX. The OM-D and GH3 are within spitting distance of DX in terms of quality, and the new GH3 has the ergonomics and handling of my old D300, in a smaller and lighter package. I found the OM-D to be just that bit too small for my paws. But the GH3 is excellent, and I can carry it and the m43 equivalent of 24-70 and 70-200 f/2.8 in a package that fits a small Billingham and weighs just about the same as my Nikkor 70-200 on its own. Permit one image (below) to explain the difference and some more examples here http://www.pbase.com/bassrock/gh3

I know this is a Nikonians forum, and I don't knock Nikon. I really hope to see a D400 or something similar this year. However, I think they might have missed the boat by not introducing a mirrorless DX model sooner, that would have hit the sweet spot on the IQ / bulk compromise continuum. Sony, Oly and Panny seem that bit more dynamic in camera developments, and now are moving to introduce more "pro spec" mirrorless features (waterproofing, fast AF, fast lenses etc). So yes, I effectively moved from a D300 to m43 and haven't regretted it. My D700 gets an occasional trip out, but I invariably reach for the Panny, and my back and shoulder muscles thank me for it

Bill
North Berwick, Scotland

My Website - My Nikonians Gallery


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Wed 02-Jan-13 05:50 PM
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#62. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 61


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

>... I sold my D300 and bought a secondhand D700 when
>the D600 came out, and some secondhand D700s were going for
>low prices. I have sort of regretted it ever since... I know people
>talk about the smaller size of the D600, but when you look at
>the lenses (12-24 DX compared to 16-35 FX, for instance) there
>is a significant size disadvantage with full frame...

>...For me personally (and I know lots of people will disagree with
>this), the m43 cameras have replaced DX...

Thanks for your insights and comments, Bill. I'm one of those amateur hobbyists who doesn't want to go to FX because of the size, like you say, and have been looking at the M4/3 system for the reasons you mentioned. I haven't bought anything yet, but comments from you, as a user of both, provide good information.

Randy

  

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sabre Gold Member Nikonian since 31st Dec 2006Wed 02-Jan-13 08:59 PM
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#63. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 61


Bedfordshire, GB
          

Hi Bill,

I thank you for your objective and realistic comments regarding this debate. It is good to know that there are a range of opinions and feelings from different members in this debate - it would be a boring world if we all felt the same. However, I was hoping that I was not just some lonely moaning old git who was the only person feeling this way about the lack of a Pro line DX upgrade to the D200/D300.

I have been watching with more than a touch of envy at the NEX, OM-D and GH users who have been enjoying the delights of m4/3, while I am left with a 6½ year old DX body and my only Nikon upgrade path is to a 3½ year old D300S design.

Just like you, I am not knocking Nikon - they have some amazing cameras - but the lack of a D400 is leaving me feeling miffed. After 25 years of owning and using Nikons I really would like to stay with Nikons. Sure, I have the option of going to FX - the D600 is a stunning camera, as evidenced in the some of the images showing in the photo forums. However, I do not want to go FX for my own reasons already discussed.

Other members have stated why Nikon does not need to follow the Pro DX route any more, but your GH3 is very strong evidence why they really should. The GH3 can produce professional still and video images with very capable panache - and it does all this in a pint size package. Going up to a D700 or D800 is great if the user wants to carry all that weight around, and sure those models bring other benefits, but at what price (currency and usability)?

Cheers

Steve (Bedfordshire, England)
My Nikonians Gallery- please visit and leave a comment
A Nikon in the hand is worth two in the bag!

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Wed 02-Jan-13 09:20 PM
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#64. "RE: I bought into a system, not a single model..."
In response to Reply # 63


Tallahassee, US
          

Some months ago, in the heat of the "WHERE IS MY D400!" discussion, I tossed out the following:

My feeling is that Nikon will likely move the D400 to full frame. For the same reasons the D2 > D3 went full frame. What I *do* think will happen though, is that Nikon will expand the Nikon 1 concept to a full-on DSLR. I would not be surprised in the least to see Nikon do a pro level mirrorless DSLR. I'd be interested in it too.

The M4/3 cameras have been around a while and were really buoyed by the indie film crowd for numerous reasons. It seems in the past couple of years, still photographers have jumped in with both feet as well. The concept is sound, and the benefits real. I'd be MORE than willing to buy a Nikon DSLR with the current Nikon 1 sensor in a full sized body. For outdoor sports it would be TERRIFIC! 10fps, silent, 2.7 crop factor which means I could leave my big glass at home. LOTS of advantages.

2013 is shaping up to be a very interesting one to see where the market will go in terms of DSLRs...

>Other members have stated why Nikon does not need to follow
>the Pro DX route any more, but your GH3 is very strong
>evidence why they really should. The GH3 can produce
>professional still and video images with very capable panache
>- and it does all this in a pint size package. Going up to a
>D700 or D800 is great if the user wants to carry all that
>weight around, and sure those models bring other benefits, but
>at what price (currency and usability)?

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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