Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MULTILINGUAL NIKONIANS English Café (Public) topic #85987
View in linear mode

Subject: "Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagr..." Previous topic | Next topic
Nikon32250 Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Mar 2004Tue 18-Dec-12 04:30 PM
3532 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."


St. Augustine, US
          

Instagram, which is owned by Facebook, has just changed their policy on uploaded photos. According to the cnet website,

" Instagram says it now has the right to sell your photos"

"In its first big policy shift since Facebook bought the photo-sharing site, Instagram claims the right to sell users' photos without payment or notification. Oh, and there's no way to opt out.


Instagram said today that it has the perpetual right to sell users' photographs without payment or notification, a dramatic policy shift that quickly sparked a public outcry. "

<http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57559710-38/instagram-says-it-now-has-the-right-to-sell-your-photos/>

I was never a big user of Instagram, but I certainly won't use it any more.

Graham
From St. Augustine, FL. "I like photographers, you don't ask questions." Ronald Reagan to White House Press Photogs

<http://www.ancientcityphotography.com/>

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
Covey22 Moderator
18th Dec 2012
1
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
jbloom Gold Member
18th Dec 2012
2
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
esantos Moderator
18th Dec 2012
3
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
Nikon32250 Silver Member
18th Dec 2012
4
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
RLDubbya Silver Member
19th Dec 2012
5
     Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
Nikon32250 Silver Member
19th Dec 2012
6
     Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
esantos Moderator
19th Dec 2012
7
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
Floridian Silver Member
19th Dec 2012
8
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
gkaiseril Gold Member
19th Dec 2012
9
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
esantos Moderator
20th Dec 2012
10
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
Nitehawk5169 Gold Member
26th Dec 2012
11
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
LMMiller9 Silver Member
27th Dec 2012
12
     Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
largebore Silver Member
27th Dec 2012
14
Reply message RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Ins...
ecossephoto
27th Dec 2012
13

Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberTue 18-Dec-12 05:33 PM
10576 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 18-Dec-12 05:42 PM by Covey22

US
          

Just a joke: You can tell who's really being the Uber-Hipster (the same hipsters who flocked to Instagram and diluted it's true quirky value) when they tell you they deleted their account a year ago saying "I saw this coming!"

It's too bad, but the reality is that Facebook and other "free" services can only turn a profit through monetization of assets. That boils down to advertisements that get a lot of eyeballs (CTRs) and/or people buying credits to participate in whatever user sub-communities exist therein (primarly the online games like Farmville etc). Not sure about the success of the "business pages" or tactics like "promote this post."

I'm not defending Instagram. On the contrary, I feel quite bad for several of my relatives, one of whom is young enough to qualify for the 20ish hipster category and has hundreds of photos taken or edited with the app and posted on her wall. If she has to delete them, well, that's a good portion of her personal history gone from convenient visibility to her family and friends. I guess she could always repost into albums with the right privacy settings, but what's gone from that is the context - the comments, the likes, their place in her timeline etc.

Edited to add: This raises (again) the spectre of online data latency. Many years ago, before FB's IPO was even a gleam in some broker's eye, there were several low-key articles talking about the fact that FB's data farm infrastructure could restore *anything* even if the user managed to systemically go back into their post and wall history (this was pre-Timeline) and purged every aspect of a particular person, subject, etc. Privacy laws overall are still quite immature and the fact that FB spans continents all with differing bits of legislation on this and other subjects associated with online identities means we're in for more than a few years of rollercoaster rides before the dust settles. I'm a tech guy - I cut my teeth in the big Internet boom of the 80s and 90s, and I'm decidedly uncomfortable with how much of my information is out there, and I *know* I've locked down my privacy settings on Social Media sites *tight*. The reality is that once it's out there, it's out there, and there will always be opportunities for your data to remain latent, no matter what technical controls are created.

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

jbloom Gold Member Awarded for the continuous and generous sharing of his high level expertise and his always encouraging comments in several forums. Nikonian since 15th Jul 2004Tue 18-Dec-12 06:18 PM
6133 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 0


Wethersfield, US
          

I don't post anything on public sites that would be worth selling.

-- Jon
Wethersfield, CT, USA
Connecticut High School Sports Photos

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Tue 18-Dec-12 07:58 PM
11513 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 0


McAllen, US
          

I'm disturbed by the statement that, "Instagram says it now has the right to sell your photos". Oh really, who gave them that right? Even though this policy doesn't kick in until the new year I can't see how they have a legal claim to any photos posted prior to the policy change. And if I understand U.S. law correctly they are obligated to give advance notice of this policy change. While it would probably be expensive to individually pursue one's rights in this situation I'll bet a few suits will crop up and possible be consolidated into a class action to stop this rights grab.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Nikon32250 Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Mar 2004Tue 18-Dec-12 09:10 PM
3532 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 3


St. Augustine, US
          

I agree that there will probably be some class action law suits in the near future. Having said that I don't think I have ever posted an Instagram picture that would have any monetary value. However, one never knows when something big is going to happen and, if your smart phone is the only camera you have with you, then that photo could be worth money.

Graham
From St. Augustine, FL. "I like photographers, you don't ask questions." Ronald Reagan to White House Press Photogs

<http://www.ancientcityphotography.com/>

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
RLDubbya Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Dec 2011Wed 19-Dec-12 12:57 AM
553 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

>I'm disturbed by the statement that, "Instagram says it
>now has the right to sell your photos". Oh really, who
>gave them that right? Even though this policy doesn't kick in
>until the new year I can't see how they have a legal claim to
>any photos posted prior to the policy change. And if I
>understand U.S. law correctly they are obligated to give
>advance notice of this policy change. While it would probably
>be expensive to individually pursue one's rights in this
>situation I'll bet a few suits will crop up and possible be
>consolidated into a class action to stop this rights grab.

The policy clearly states that it doesn't apply to photos uploaded prior to 1/16/2013. As far as a terms change goes, that's pretty standard - when you sign up, you agree that terms might change in the future.

And it looks like they're backing off...current news reports suggest that they're changing direction in response to Internet whining.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Nikon32250 Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Mar 2004Wed 19-Dec-12 01:08 AM
3532 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 5


St. Augustine, US
          


>
>
>The policy clearly states that it doesn't apply to photos
>uploaded prior to 1/16/2013. As far as a terms change goes,
>that's pretty standard - when you sign up, you agree that
>terms might change in the future.
>
>And it looks like they're backing off...current news reports
>suggest that they're changing direction in response to
>Internet whining.

I also just read that it looks like they are backing off a bit. I'm not sure I would describe it as Internet "whining". I think people have a legitimate gripe.

Graham
From St. Augustine, FL. "I like photographers, you don't ask questions." Ronald Reagan to White House Press Photogs

<http://www.ancientcityphotography.com/>

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Wed 19-Dec-12 03:23 PM
11513 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 5


McAllen, US
          

Yes, terms might change from time to time but when the changes potentially impact the user's pocket book or rights of ownership then it becomes a contestable legal issue. Just because their terms of agreement require you agree to their terms doesn't mean they have legal standing particularly when its concerning terms that don't exist at the time that you agreed.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Wed 19-Dec-12 04:06 PM
2716 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 0


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

A better way to do this would be for Instagram to implement a policy where they would split any revenues from photo sales with the person who posted the photo. Then people would be eager to post photos that Instagram could market for them.

But, I don't think this would work, for two reasons.

1. Taxes. Instagram would have to keep records, send out tax forms, etc., to people it paid. Getting people who posted photos to provide the information Instagram would need for tax purposes would be problematic. But, perhaps this could be worked around by letting people supply their information, and if they did, Instagram would share payments. Hmm... but then Instagram would have to keep massive records for perhaps a relatively few sales. This doesn't even account for variations in tax requirements from country to country. So, maybe the tax issue makes it too difficult.

2. Copyright. How do you know who is the actual owner of the photo? Just because someone posts it does not mean the poster didn't post someone else's photo, maybe without permission or attribution. This would seem to be a problem for the policy Instagram announced too. What if someone posts someone else's photo without the photographer's permission?

Another issue would be model releases for photos with recognizable people in them, but this issue would only seem to limit what photos Instagram would actually be able to sell.

If there was a way to do it (and, I'm sure there are creative people who could figure out an effective procedure), a system where Instagram split the revenue with the poster would seem to be better for everyone, and would make people want to post their photos rather than wanting to avoid posting them.

Randy

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

gkaiseril Gold Member Nikonian since 28th Oct 2005Wed 19-Dec-12 08:48 PM
6739 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 0


Chicago, US
          

Maybe not:

Instagram apologizes to users: We won\'t sell your photos

Another Internet backtrack because of user response.

George
My Nikonian Galleries

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Thu 20-Dec-12 02:02 AM
11513 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 9


McAllen, US
          

Yay!

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Nitehawk5169 Gold Member Nikonian since 22nd Feb 2010Wed 26-Dec-12 08:15 PM
346 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 0


Williamstown, US
          

Yes, another case of the People whining, I mean standing up for what is right and winning against corporate greed.

Mike

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005Thu 27-Dec-12 02:14 AM
1089 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 11
Thu 27-Dec-12 02:15 AM by LMMiller9

Potomac, US
          

I wouldn't call it "corporate greed." To this point Instagram service has been completely free. They have not figured out how to make any money at all. If they don't the service will disappear or be replaced by something you have to pay for.

We are so used to getting all kinds of free services on the Internet that we are comfortable labeling any effort to create a revenue stream to offset the costs of the service as "greed."

Maybe the users are the greedy ones. At the same time, I agree that YOUR pictures are YOURS and belong to no one else.

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
largebore Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Jan 2011Thu 27-Dec-12 11:43 AM
609 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 12


Clarks Summit, US
          

>I wouldn't call it "corporate greed." To this point
>Instagram service has been completely free. They have not
>figured out how to make any money at all. If they don't the
>service will disappear or be replaced by something you have to
>pay for.
>
>We are so used to getting all kinds of free services on the
>Internet that we are comfortable labeling any effort to create
>a revenue stream to offset the costs of the service as
>"greed."
>
>Maybe the users are the greedy ones. At the same time, I agree
>that YOUR pictures are YOURS and belong to no one else.


I use SMUGMUG.. I pay for it.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ecossephoto Registered since 21st Jun 2012Thu 27-Dec-12 07:52 AM
107 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: Facebook says it now has the right to sell your Instagram photos."
In response to Reply # 0


GB
          

As I read somewhere else -

On the internet when you think you are getting a product for free, you are the product.

User beware.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MULTILINGUAL NIKONIANS English Café (Public) topic #85987 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.