Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MULTILINGUAL NIKONIANS English Café (Public) topic #85486
View in linear mode

Subject: "At the risk of provoding a food fight..." Previous topic | Next topic
mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Fri 23-Nov-12 01:45 PM
6060 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
Fri 23-Nov-12 01:49 PM by mklass

Tacoma, US
          

Something that continues to puzzle me about responses to certain posts:

Someone has a question about which zoom lens they should get, or if the one they have is appropriate to a new camera, and someone responds with something like "get a 50mm prime". How is that responsive to the OP?

1. I realize that a 50mm prime is the classic "normal" lens and considered by some to be optically pure, but really, hasn't photographic technology progressed to the point that there are other good options?

2. Just because the prime lens is a f/1.4 or f/1.8 lens, and the zoom is f/3.5-5.6 doesn't mean that is what the OP wants, needs or even would know how to use.

3. Isn't suggesting a fixed length lens being totally unresponsive to the OP, and, frankly, somewhat elitist? I know some people like them because they force you to "think about your composition" or "zoom with you feet" or because "that's what <insert name of famous photographer> used". Really, isn't the suggestion the photographic equivalent of a strait-jacket?

I have a lot of lenses and use them when I think I want certain capabilities ("horses for courses"). The 50mm is one of my least used lenses. To me it is boring and not conducive to capturing interesting images. Kinda like shooting with the digital equivalent of an Instamatic.

I like to think that the answers that we give here are responsive to the OP's needs, not a chance to just reiterate our own prejudices.

Whoa, I think some leftover Thanksgiving mashed potatoes just flew by...

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Covey22 Moderator
23rd Nov 2012
1
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
RockyIII Gold Member
24th Nov 2012
10
     Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Covey22 Moderator
25th Nov 2012
17
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
walkerr Administrator
23rd Nov 2012
2
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Floridian Silver Member
23rd Nov 2012
4
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
walkerr Administrator
23rd Nov 2012
5
     Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
mklass Platinum Member
23rd Nov 2012
6
          Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
walkerr Administrator
23rd Nov 2012
7
               Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
HHargitt Silver Member
24th Nov 2012
11
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
ScottChapin Moderator
24th Nov 2012
14
     Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Cookies35 Silver Member
27th Nov 2012
22
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Floridian Silver Member
23rd Nov 2012
3
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Drbee Silver Member
23rd Nov 2012
8
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoking a food fight...
RockyIII Gold Member
24th Nov 2012
9
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Scotty Silver Member
24th Nov 2012
12
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
jdroach Platinum Member
24th Nov 2012
13
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
ScottChapin Moderator
24th Nov 2012
15
Reply message Q!
dhrphoto Silver Member
25th Nov 2012
16
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Nitehawk5169 Gold Member
25th Nov 2012
18
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Clyde57 Silver Member
25th Nov 2012
19
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
geodef Silver Member
27th Nov 2012
20
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
rosewood_ltd Silver Member
27th Nov 2012
21
Reply message RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight...
Cookies35 Silver Member
27th Nov 2012
23

Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberFri 23-Nov-12 02:48 PM
10785 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Lens designs and choices are all about solving a particular problem.

Covey22 takes a heaping serving spoonful of corn kernels, starts mashing it into the Cranberry Jelly

Primes solves the ability to render images beautifully at a specific focal length and/or aperture.

He then puts on a pair of disposable food service gloves, reaches into the Turkey and yanks out a brimming palm of stuffing and what amazingly looks like Chorizo sausage that had been cooked inside the bird

Zooms solves the problem of carrying multiple focal lengths but at a cost - usually image quality and aperture options - which is why fast and sharp zooms cost more.

The stuffing mixture is now formed into a semi-sphere protecing the kernel-jelly center

While the idea of a 50mm seems antiquated, it all goes back to the general principle that lenses around the 35-50mm range best reflect the average human field-of-view. Thus, if the one of the primary intents of photography is to capture what we see, this is a legitimate concept and shouldn't be discarded for the simple sake of "moving on."

What's this? He's slipped on a fresh pair of gloves and is now executing a two-handed grab - a ladle full of scratch-made mashed potatoes and gravy each!

Again - what is the problem being solved? If it's general photography, then yes, likely a two-lens kit bundle will fit the solution.

Is nothing sacred? He's taken that mash-and-gravy mixture and liberally applied dollops of it to the semi-sphere on the main dish

Use of primes is a much more effective tool to teach people about perspective; what it means and how do you manipulate it to make your photographs. It is definitely not convenient. But some of the best work in the world has been made with a 50mm, so there's really not a lot to argue about it's utility.

The last straw - he's grabbed what appears to be an armful of Pecan Pie (sacriligious!) and Pumpkin Cheesecake as a buffer to hold back the now veritable flood of the Thanksgiving mashup from spilling over the edges

The answer is to keep asking questions of the OP. When someone asks "What lens should I get?" or "I can buy X or Y. Which should I go with?" Perhaps we should ask the question "What problem are you trying to solve?"

The climatic ending - the mixture is tossed up with gusto into the ceiling fan spinning at the UL-rated 330 rpms, the dinner is equitably and efficiently distributed to all parties - as well as the dog, cat, ceilings, walls, grandma's good china closet and dozing Uncle Bob in the TV room next door

Let the Feasting Begin!

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
RockyIII Gold Member Nikonian since 27th May 2006Sat 24-Nov-12 02:32 AM
3059 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 1


Raleigh, US
          

I loved your interwoven side story, Armando. Thanks for the laughs. Heh heh.

Rocky

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Covey22 Moderator Expert in various fields including aviation photography Awarded for his contributions to the Resources and The Nikonian eZine Charter MemberSun 25-Nov-12 04:11 AM
10785 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#17. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Thanks Rocky!

"Toodle-loo from Covey22!"

-Armando
Nikonians Team
Nikonians News - Fresh Everyday!

The Covey Blog!

My Plan:

Get out of the car.
Get closer to the subject.
Pick the right mid-tone this time.

See My Nikonians Gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 23-Nov-12 03:12 PM
14699 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 23-Nov-12 03:22 PM by walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
          

I tend to agree. While there are times that I like using a 50mm, I use one far, far less than I do other lenses. I first started with a 50mm lens as that was the way you bought cameras a long time ago. I was happy to move beyond it. I don't believe it leads to better composition. I personally believe the best compositional advice is use your eyes, move to the height and location where you see the most interesting and dynamic arrangement of things, and then pick the lens or focal length that matches your vision. Standing in one place and zooming or limiting yourself to one focal length is an interesting photographic exercise, but not how I prefer making photographs.

When do I recommend a 50mm lens? When someone asks the question "What's a good, low-cost lens for making photos in low-light conditions without flash?" Similarly, if I'm asked about an inexpensive lens for making photographs with limited depth of field I might recommend a 50mm. Other than that, I tend to recommend different things based on their budget.

BTW, the phrase "zooming with your feet" is one of my pet peeves since moving around isn't the same as changing focal lengths. That and the term "walkaround lens" drive me nuts.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Fri 23-Nov-12 08:11 PM
2739 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 2


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

>...the term "walkaround lens" drive me nuts.

Why, Rick? The term makes lots of sense to me. I want one easy-to-carry lens that is flexible enough to let me get a variety of shots as I explore on foot. The term seems so descriptive. (My "walkaround" is the 18-200.)

Randy

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 23-Nov-12 08:50 PM
14699 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 4
Fri 23-Nov-12 08:56 PM by walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
          

The reason it bugs me is that there's an implication that lenses other than wide-ranging zooms (which seems to be the usual definition) aren't suitable for using when you're walking around. What I use when I'm walking around with a single lens can be a 35mm, a 50mm, an 85mm or 105mm, a 24-70mm, a 16-35mm, ...you name it. It just depends on the mood I'm in.

It's a bit like saying "I want to buy a landscape lens".

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Fri 23-Nov-12 09:20 PM
6060 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 5


Tacoma, US
          

>It's a bit like saying "I want to buy a landscape lens".

I know the answer to that: An 800mm with a 2x TC. Perfect for the landscape of the moon.

Mick
http://www.mickklassphoto.com
or
Visit my nikonians gallery

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                
walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 23-Nov-12 09:25 PM
14699 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 6


Colorado Springs, US
          

Exactly.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

                    
HHargitt Silver Member Nikonian since 19th Jan 2010Sat 24-Nov-12 03:48 AM
512 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 7


Maple Ridge, CA
          

Landscaping lenses are hard to keep around... unless you bed them in concrete they don't seem to stay in the garden very long.

Happy planting,

Howard

Will shoot for fame...fun...food... a heck I'll shoot anytime anywhere.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberSat 24-Nov-12 11:17 PM
8195 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#14. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 2


Powder Springs, US
          


>When do I recommend a 50mm lens? When someone asks the
>question "What's a good, low-cost lens for making photos
>in low-light conditions without flash?"

Exactly, that's about the only allure of the 50mm for me anymore. Now that I have the 85mm f1./4, the 50mm tends to be relegated to the closet these days. Everything else in my arsenal zooms, because my 20mm f/2.8 isn't enough wider than the 24-70mm.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Cookies35 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Apr 2007Tue 27-Nov-12 09:18 PM
1963 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#22. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 14


NL
          

>Exactly, that's about the only allure of the 50mm for me
>anymore. Now that I have the 85mm f1./4, the 50mm tends to be
>relegated to the closet these days.


Not a fair piece of information to base your advice on, is it really? I have both lenses too, bought them both at about the same time for precisely the same reason: shooting moving targets in low light with no flash. That was before I knew anything. It turned out that the 85mm f/1.4 is soooo sweet that practically none of my other lenses get any playing time.

Saying that 50mm isn't a very useful focal length because you prefer the 85mm f/1.4 is like saying you think sedans aren't nearly as interesting to drive when compared to convertibles. This may or may not be so, but the person with only a VW Jetta and a Porsche convertible in their garage to base the opinion on isn't really comparing apples and oranges now, are they?

— LaDonna, hoping that her blatant violation of the rules of grammar in order to keep this post as gender-non-stereotyped as possible peeves somebody off enough to fling some of those leftover turkey sandwiches all the way over here




_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Fri 23-Nov-12 08:05 PM
2739 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

>...I like to think that the answers that we give here are
>responsive to the OP's needs, not a chance to just reiterate
>our own prejudices...

I think your observation is correct in lots of cases. For example, when the OP says "Which would be better for me, a 16-85 or 18-105," the answer that you'd be better off with a 50mm prime doesn't really address the question. But sometimes the OP will say "I want to take photos of bands in clubs with dim and erratic lighting. Which would be better, a 16-85 or an 18-105?" In which case it might be helpful to say that neither is likely to be satisfactory in that use, and you'd be better off with a 50mm prime.

It depends on the question, but I do think that lots of times people will provide responses without carefully reading the OP's question, or considering what information the OP really wants to know. So, go back to your left-over turkey; I don't think this post is as provocative as the one where you were peeved about people taking photos on railroad tracks!

Randy

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Drbee Silver Member Nikonian since 05th Aug 2004Fri 23-Nov-12 10:28 PM
5798 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

I do try to keep focused on the OP's original request, especially if the OP question is bounded and is really about a zoom lens.

What really bugs me is when the OP doesn't respond. The "queue" fills up with responder's speculative (due to lack of feedback by the OP) contributions and then at some "later date" we have to unravel it all.

There's protocol on both sides, it's called a dialogue. Sometimes I think we get the 50mm response out of frustration; a kind of throwing an answer at the wall to see what sticks. A desperation response in a passive food-fight trying to stimulate a response from the OP; apparently sitting there in teflon-silence.

As Rick points out, the 50 was yesterday's kit lens. I'm personally waiting for people to rush out and create an avalanche buying new 50's in response to their frustration with the slow 18-55/24-85 generation of today's kit lenses. .... still waiting.

Too much cranberry and stuffing, still wanting a more engaged world.

Full disclosure: I recently bought a very nice 50mm f/1.2 AIS lens for my D700. It's a brilliant, capable lens. I use it once in a blue moon but I just can't leave it out of the bag - just in case. My most used lens is a 24-120mm f/4 AFS VR which I like for so many reasons, it's a different post. .... and my favorite walk-about lens is a 28mm f/2 AIS on my D700.

Roger
It's still, ISO, aperture and shutter-speed, right?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

RockyIII Gold Member Nikonian since 27th May 2006Sat 24-Nov-12 02:30 AM
3059 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: At the risk of provoking a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0
Sat 24-Nov-12 02:45 AM by RockyIII

Raleigh, US
          

As you can see from my current equipment list, my only lens right now is a 50mm on an FX body. I don't think I have ever recommended it to anybody who is looking for a zoom lens though.

Rocky

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Scotty Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Feb 2002Sat 24-Nov-12 11:48 AM
4843 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


Ely, Cambridgeshire, GB
          

Is is also because there a number of members here who believe that that is how they learned so that is how everybody should learn...

D2Xs + AF20-35mm f2.8 + AF35-70mm f2.8 + AF80-200mm f2.8

or

FE + Nikkor 50mm f1.8 AIS

Hunger pays a heavy price to the shining Gods of speed and steel

Check out my website...
http://alexjpscott.wix.com/photography

LIKE me on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/AlexJPScottPhotography

Follow my blog...

http://alexjpscottphotography.blogspot.co.uk/


Look me up on Flickr...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alex_jp_scott/


Alex

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

jdroach Platinum Member Fellow Ribbon awarded. John exhibits true Nikonian spirit by frequently posting images and requesting comments and critique, which he graciously accepts. He is an inspiration to all of us through constant improvement in his own work, keen observations and excellent commentary on images posted by others. Nikonian since 21st Mar 2009Sat 24-Nov-12 02:32 PM
4679 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


Milwaukee, US
          

I think it is about learning and using many options, understanding why they work or don't work, and then making choices that work for each individual.

jdroach, a Milwaukee area and sometimes Chicago area Nikonian.





Visit my Nikonians Blog

Visit my Nikonian gallery

My Flickr Photostream

jdroachphotography.com

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ScottChapin Moderator Awarded for his high level skills in various areas, including Aviation and Birds Photography Charter MemberSat 24-Nov-12 11:22 PM
8195 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#15. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


Powder Springs, US
          

The problem for me, is that I have a hard enough time trying to figure out what's the right lens for me and fits the budget. How would I make that decision fro somebody else? I think I would tend more to validate the OP's feelings as opposed to redirecting, unless there is some obvious flaw in logic.

Scott Chapin
Powder Springs, GA, USA
Nikonians Team Member

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dhrphoto Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Sep 2007Sun 25-Nov-12 01:48 AM
142 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#16. "Q!"
In response to Reply # 0


Laurel, US
          

While suggesting a 50mm lens is not answering the question, it is a fine lens. When someones answer bothers us, maybe we should ask why? If that is their responce, so be it. That is how they chose to respond, for they are not us!

May Your Day Be Happy And
Full Of Beautiful Images
D.H.R.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Nitehawk5169 Gold Member Nikonian since 22nd Feb 2010Sun 25-Nov-12 05:54 AM
347 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#18. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


Williamstown, US
          

I have not responded to many, "Which of these lenses should I buy," unless I own both lenses or I am quite familiar with one of the choices and have a solid opinion. I would not hesitate to tell someone that a particular lens has shortcomings or it is limited to a particular type of photography which can be due to my own lack of creativeness. I have seen some very creative endeavors recently in the posts of our members and I would hate to discourage anyone from trying something different because it, "breaks the rules of thirds" or "leading lines are going in an unnatural direction".


As far as the 50mm prime lens goes, I own the 50mm f/1.4 Nikkor. I bought all kinds of lenses before I purchased this one and the others were because they fit my needs of flora and fauna. Why did I buy the 50mm, which I have used the least to this point? I wanted a lens that I could use in museum in low light without a flash. I could use it in a church without disrupting the wedding service. It has a purpose for me but I would not recommend it unless the OP has similar needs. Sometimes the OPs ask such general questions it is necessary to respond back to them with questions to clarify what exactly they plan to do with their photography.


The other point I would like to make is the different "pet phrases" we all like to gyrate towards or away from in our photography. We all have a favorite lens we tend to favor. If we take a hike in the woods it may be a different lens then a hike across the pasturelands or down a NYC street. I tend to call that my "walk around" lens. "Use the prime because it is a better lens then a zoom lens" and "use your feet" to compose your shot, I personally don't buy it. Why? We are not all equipped with the same abilities. I myself am an amputee and I try to minimize the amount of walking I do. Certain areas require the ability to climb and that is out. Leg protheses do not bend at the ankle and is a movement limitation. So MY compensation is a zoom lens. Oh, and one final note on "pet peeves", if the word lens is not "hip" enough, then just substitute "GLASS" in its place. I LOVE to eat!! Throw some food this way!!

Mike

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Clyde57 Silver Member Nikonian since 16th Sep 2007Sun 25-Nov-12 10:23 PM
517 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#19. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


Punta Gorda, US
          

I don't have a problem with someone advising to get a prime when asked which zoom to get.

I don't like it when someone says get a prime or one of the zooms without saying why.

Clyde

Take a look at my nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

geodef Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd Mar 2009Tue 27-Nov-12 01:22 PM
110 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#20. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 0


Hawley, US
          

I will shyly weigh in, as a perpetual "rank" (interpret that term any way you like) amateur who is frequently mistaken for someone who knows what I'm talking about. I have great sympathy for the confusion felt by folks just getting started.
People do ask, "What lens should I get?" I always respond with the question, "What do you think you'll be photographing? Portraits of people? Landscapes? Landscapes and insects all in one walk?" I assume that these are folks who, like me, who can really only afford one or two lenses in the foreseeable future. I started with a zoom because it gave me the most flexibility to learn what I was passionate about photographing. I've since sprung for one prime lens--a 60mm macro--and can only dream about a prime telephoto lens (stolen from someone's garden?).
I do think that for someone who is just beginning to feel his way and who isn't sure where his hobby will take him, a zoom allows him to explore a bit more than a prime lens would. I'd never recommend a prime lens to a beginner.
Flung turkey will be accepted happily by my dogs.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
rosewood_ltd Silver Member Nikonian since 10th Sep 2008Tue 27-Nov-12 03:02 PM
448 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#21. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 20


Akron, US
          

At the risk of exposing my own rank amateurishness...
I'm not sure if what I do counts as "problem solving" per se, but having said that...

I do love the laser sharpness of my 50 mm, but like others, it remains the least-used lens in my kit. These days, I'm finding that the cruel march of time has made it more and more difficult to "zoom with my feet." I often find that what I would consider the ideal location for composing a shot is either not within my current capabilities physically, or places me in an unsafe position given my bad knees and back/neck. Zoom lenses give me my legs back, in a way. It's not ideal, but it works and keeps me going out to shoot.

These days I have to approach composition by asking myself, which zoom gives me optimal framing, given my limitations moving around?

Speaking only for myself, I think it's better to find your own way into the "discipline" of photography. While there are unquestionable advantages to technical mastery in taking pictures, I think I'm with geodef on this one - start with as few limitations as possible to allow what (if any) creativity you may have to run free. If you truly enjoy what you're doing and have a desire to improve your work, you will naturally find your way to better technique and an appreciation of "old school" -ahem- virtues and values. They should have a place in every photographer's knowledge base. You might even find yourself giving out advice on lenses and writing lengthy high-falutin' posts in a forum...

For those of you about to fling, I prefer cornbread and sausage stuffing

Russ

Visit my Nikonians gallery.


My Zenfolio page: www.yellowcreekstudio.zenfolio.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Cookies35 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Apr 2007Tue 27-Nov-12 09:47 PM
1963 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#23. "RE: At the risk of provoding a food fight..."
In response to Reply # 20


NL
          

>I do think that for someone who is just beginning to feel his
>way and who isn't sure where his hobby will take him, a zoom
>allows him to explore a bit more than a prime lens would. I'd
>never recommend a prime lens to a beginner.


I WOULD!!! These days I usually recommend the 35mm f/1.8, which is the "new" 50mm f/1.8 — meaning, it's a "normal" prime on a DX camera (if the beginner is, like so many beginners, shooting DX). I suggest it not necessarily because it's the same as our human field of view but because it's the cheapest AF-S way into shallow depth of field.

When we start learning about photography, I think we need to learn about exposure, and that means learning about aperture and shutter speed. Problem is that with the largest aperture available most of the time on most kit zooms being f/4.something you can pretty much forget trying to learn about aperture. With that dark viewfinder not helping any, it's really hard for beginners to experience what folks are talking about. Depth of field? It's just hard to control in anything but the narrowest set of non-beginner-modal-circumstances using an f/fake-the-3.5-rush-through-the-4's-5 kit lens.

Depending of course on precisely what the beginner wants to shoot, I think a beginner is quite well challenged, and hugely excited, by shooting with shallow depth of field. It's the type of photographs that most instantly sets their pictures apart from what they've been getting with their P&S's, and why the latest rash of compacts is so keen to advertise this new "magical" feature. It's exciting!!!

Exciting is what keeps people shooting, and hence keeps them learning.

Most beginners start with a zoom (came with the camera), and in that case I wholeheartedly encourage them to consider a fast prime for their second lens.

(Shout out to the OP: Maybe we've been reading different posts. I remember far more "which should be my next lens" posts, particularly newbie posts, than "which zoom lens should I buy" posts. ???)

If they're looking to buy a dSLR and want to know which kit to go for, I'd say, within the range of what you can afford, get the one in which the price differential between extra cost of "meatier kit" and extra cost of buying the "meatier" lens on its own, is greatest. Biggest potential for profit if and when you sell it.

(It's good to get newbies introduced to the idea of not getting too attached to their lenses, opens up the idea of maybe one day wanting another lens, paving the way for full-blown NAS and a lot more "which lens should I buy" posts in the future.)

If they've inherited a dSLR with no zoom at all, even then I'd ask them what kind of things they'd most like to shoot before I'd suggest a zoom. Landscape, travel photography, hmmm, let's see ... Anything else and I'd probably suggest a fast prime even if it's their only lens.

Probably.

Perhaps probably.

I'll have to think it over.

Food would help.

Please tell your dogs to get in line like everybody else ...

— LaDonna

_________________________________
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MULTILINGUAL NIKONIANS English Café (Public) topic #85486 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.