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Subject: "It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E " This topic is locked.
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flashdeadline Administrator Expert professional photojournalist Awarded for his multiple contributions to the eZine, Newsletters and more Nikonian since 07th Apr 2002Tue 07-Feb-12 03:13 AM
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"It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
Tue 07-Feb-12 03:28 AM by flashdeadline

Havelock, US
          

This just in from Nikon USA Press office:
Nikon just announced the highly anticipated Nikon D800 HD-SLR. The Nikon D800 will deliver extreme resolution from a 36.3-megapixel FX-format CMOS sensor that gives unparalleled image and video quality optimized for professional still and multimedia photographers and videographers. The end result is amazing image quality and fidelity, while retaining a wide ISO range for excellent low light ability for photo and video.

The Nikon D800E is a alternative model for those professionals who demand even higher resolution. This unique alternative model will effectively enhance the resolution characteristics of the 36.3-megapixel CMOS sensor by cancelling the anti-aliasing properties of the OLPF inside the camera.

Highlights of the Nikon D800 and Nikon D800E:
-36.3-megapixel FX-format CMOS Sensor
-91,000 pixel 3D Matrix Metering system with Advanced Scene Recognition System
-1080p HD video with manual control
-Headphone jack, and uncompressed HDMI out
-Enhanced 51 pt AF system
-4 fps full resolution, 6 fps DX-mode with MBD-12 battery pack
-ISO range of 100-6400, expandable to 50 (Lo-1)-25,600 (Hi-2)
-Magnesium alloy for maximum durability
-Dual card slots / CF and SD
-Nikon D800 will be available in late March for $2999.95, and the Nikon D800E will be available in mid-April for $3299.95

Full Press Release can be found here:
http://press.nikonusa.com/post/2012/02/06/expectations-surpassed-the-36-3-megapixel-nikon-d800-is-the-multimedia-hd-slr-that-shatters-conventional-resolution-barriers-for-maximum-fidelity/

---Tom

"Shoot everything f/16 at a 100 and let the lab boys worry about it."

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera."





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dm1dave Administrator Awarded for high level knowledge and skills in various areas, most notably in Wildlife and Landscape Writer Ribbon awarded for his excellent article contributions to the Nikonians community Nikonian since 12th Sep 2006Tue 07-Feb-12 03:22 AM
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#1. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 07-Feb-12 03:22 AM by dm1dave

Lowden, US
          

Wow!

Apparently the rumor mill hit this one right on the nose.

Dave Summers
Lowden, Iowa
Nikonians Photo Contest Director

Nikonians membership -
"My most important photographic investment, after the camera"

My Nikonians Gallery | SummersPhotoGraphic.com | My Crated Gallery
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Wildlife | Landscape | Macro | Sports | Travel | Online Assignments | Best of Nikonians 2014

  

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rectangularimage Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Oct 2009Tue 07-Feb-12 03:42 AM
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#2. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 1


San Diego, US
          

>Wow!
>
>Apparently the rumor mill hit this one right on the nose.

I will never doubt nikonrumors.com again. Ever.

...Mike

My website | My Nikonians gallery

  

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flashdeadline Administrator Expert professional photojournalist Awarded for his multiple contributions to the eZine, Newsletters and more Nikonian since 07th Apr 2002Tue 07-Feb-12 03:47 AM
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#5. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 1


Havelock, US
          

If you are having trouble getting at the Nikon USA site (they get swamped with hits at a time like this for a couple of hours)

—you can find more details at the Nikon (world) site:
http://www.nikon.com/news/2012/0207_dslr_01.htm

---Tom

"Shoot everything f/16 at a 100 and let the lab boys worry about it."

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera."

  

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Ruahrc Registered since 08th Jul 2007Tue 07-Feb-12 03:43 AM
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#3. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Ann Arbor, US
          

The price is surprisingly less than I thought it would be. I was honestly expecting $3999.

Also the $300 premium for the "E" version (while stupid in principle in that it contains fewer parts) is actually reasonable. I guess they had to do that though since if they charged a $1000 premium, everyone'd just get the plain version and have someone remove the filter for them.

Some of my pictures

  

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rectangularimage Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Oct 2009Tue 07-Feb-12 03:54 AM
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#7. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 3


San Diego, US
          

>The price is surprisingly less than I thought it would be. I
>was honestly expecting $3999.
>
>Also the $300 premium for the "E" version (while
>stupid in principle in that it contains fewer parts) is
>actually reasonable. I guess they had to do that though since
>if they charged a $1000 premium, everyone'd just get the plain
>version and have someone remove the filter for them.

It might not have fewer parts as the E version does have an "optical low pass filter" that is apparently not an AA filter.

...Mike

My website | My Nikonians gallery

  

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dralph Gold Member Nikonian since 16th Jul 2006Tue 07-Feb-12 05:42 AM
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#13. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 3


Elmira, US
          

One would think so, especially since hot rod Nikon conversions are available out in the wild to remove the AA filter from existing cameras.

But, a careful read of the release indicates than an additional filter is added to cancel effects of the existing AA filter. You might want to take a look at the comments at photo.net where Shun Cheung had advance knowledge and conversations with Nikon on that specific issue.


Nonetheless, I want one. Cannot justify it, but I want one.

  

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avm247 Moderator Awarded for high skills in documentary architecture and aviation photography Charter MemberTue 07-Feb-12 03:44 AM
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#4. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Rancho Cordova, US
          

I'm anxious to see the reviews and the low light performance of the sensor.


Anthony

The Moderator Page and My Gallery
The important things in life are simple; the simple things are hard.

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 03:47 AM
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#6. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Tallahassee, US
          

Well this sucks... now I have to figure out how to buy a pair of D4s and this thing.

I guess I can put off that car another few years...

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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TUKWILAGORILLA2 Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Feb 2007Wed 08-Feb-12 12:33 AM
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#44. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 6


Tukwila (Seattle), US
          

PerroneFord, LOL. Well said!

  

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flashdeadline Administrator Expert professional photojournalist Awarded for his multiple contributions to the eZine, Newsletters and more Nikonian since 07th Apr 2002Tue 07-Feb-12 03:57 AM
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#8. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Havelock, US
          

Here is the link for D800 pdf brochure download (and more specs):
http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/

(turn your audio down before the sound kicks in)

------and a shot of the D800 sporting the accessory microphone

---Tom

"Shoot everything f/16 at a 100 and let the lab boys worry about it."

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera."


Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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DigitalDarrell Team Member Founding Member of the Nikonians writer Guild. Author of most of the NikoniansPress books. Charter MemberTue 07-Feb-12 03:57 AM
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#9. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 07-Feb-12 05:20 AM by DigitalDarrell

Knoxville, US
          


These are exciting times folks!

Imagine a 36 MP DSLR with two versions no less. I am blown away by the features and familiarity of the camera. I seriously want a D800E. I've always wanted a camera without a low pass (blur) filter. While it may have a bit more moiré, the new settings in Nikon Capture NX will let me remove moiré when needed.

Again, Nikon has stepped up to the line with a superior camera, setting new standards in several areas. This is simply amazing. You can bet (with JRPs permission) that you'll soon see a book for this new monster DSLR coming from this author.

Here we go again. NAS NAS NAS NAS!!!!!




Digital Darrell

  

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flashdeadline Administrator Expert professional photojournalist Awarded for his multiple contributions to the eZine, Newsletters and more Nikonian since 07th Apr 2002Tue 07-Feb-12 04:02 AM
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#10. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 9


Havelock, US
          

Hi D! --
OK-- I admit it-- I have no earthly clue what the heck the low pass filter does or does not do.
---Tom

"Shoot everything f/16 at a 100 and let the lab boys worry about it."

"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic investment, after the camera."

  

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DigitalDarrell Team Member Founding Member of the Nikonians writer Guild. Author of most of the NikoniansPress books. Charter MemberTue 07-Feb-12 04:16 AM
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#11. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 10
Tue 07-Feb-12 05:21 AM by DigitalDarrell

Knoxville, US
          

>Hi D! --
>OK-- I admit it-- I have no earthly clue what the heck the low
>pass filter does or does not do.
>---Tom
>
> "Shoot everything f/16 at a 100 and let the lab boys
>worry about it."

>
>"Nikonians membership - My most important photographic
>investment, after the camera."


Tom,

The low pass filter basically blurs the image to remove any tendency toward the curves and rainbow effect (moiré) you might see when taking a digital picture of something with a very fine grid pattern. When the subject has a pattern that nears the frequency of the pixels on the imaging sensor, it can cause a weird interference effect that often looks like colored waves in the gridded subject.

Wikipedia has an article here that discusses Moiré:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moir%C3%A9_pattern

The D800 has a low pass or blur filter to help remove moiré, which deliberately desharpens the image. The D800E does not have a low pass filter, which means we'll have to be more cautious when shooting finely gridded subjects. However, in return we may have sharper images (no blur fiter, after all). I like sharper images!

With the Nikon Capture tools, we'll let software in the computer take the place of software in the camera and manually remove moiré when shooting with the D800E.




Digital Darrell

  

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newbird Silver Member Nikonian since 25th Apr 2006Tue 07-Feb-12 05:11 AM
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#12. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Neuville, near Quebec City, CA
          

This is what I was waiting for to upgrade my D200 and some DX lenses!

I hope we'll see image samples very soon now, taken with pro lenses of the f/2.8 and f/4 series!

THis is exciting !

Yvan
Quebec Nikonian
http://yvanbedardphotonature.com

  

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fisherd80fun Silver Member Nikonian since 23rd May 2009Tue 07-Feb-12 07:03 AM
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#14. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Essex, US
          

Very cool! I didn't think it was really going to have 36 megapixels!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Jeeves Silver Member Charter MemberTue 07-Feb-12 10:31 AM
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#15. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 14


Bangalore, IN
          

Nasim Mansurov has a great page on the difference between the D800 and the D800E.

http://mansurovs.com/

Jeeves

  

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TampaNikon1 Registered since 30th Nov 2001Tue 07-Feb-12 10:31 AM
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#16. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Spring Hill, US
          

I still do not get the need for dual CF and SD slots.

Can somepne explain the value of this?

Bob, A Florida Nikonian

"When you turn your camera on...does it return the favor?
"If Not get a "NIKON" !

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 07-Feb-12 11:23 AM
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#17. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 16


Paignton, GB
          

If you mean the advantages of having two card slots (of whatever type) then these include:

+ increased storage capacity
+ ability to duplicate every image for security
+ separation of still and video files...

But if you're questioning "why both CF and SD" then I'm less sure. It's the same as the D300s, but I would have preferred dual CF slots myself.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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matcam Silver Member Nikonian since 31st May 2007Tue 07-Feb-12 12:02 PM
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#19. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 17


cambridge, US
          

For me, the advantage of having an SD slot is that I can use an Eyefi card to wirelessly transfer images to my iPad while sending nefs to the CF card.

Matt Murphy

Visit my Nikonians gallery.


My Flickr Sets<http://www.flickr.com/photos/28712192@N08/sets/>

  

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TampaNikon1 Registered since 30th Nov 2001Tue 07-Feb-12 12:11 PM
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#20. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 17


Spring Hill, US
          

Right, I should havew clarified, not two slot but why SD and CF rather than two CFs.

I guess it's a space issue?

Bob, A Florida Nikonian

"When you turn your camera on...does it return the favor?
"If Not get a "NIKON" !

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 02:34 PM
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#22. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 20


Tallahassee, US
          

>Right, I should havew clarified, not two slot but why SD and
>CF rather than two CFs.
>
>I guess it's a space issue?

My take... I can hand off the SDHC card to anyone. They can stick it in their laptop, their iMac, their iPad, or whatever, and look at the images. I pull my SDHC card out of my D7000 and put it in my ipad for client review sessions. I can't easily do that with a CF card. No computer I am aware of comes standard with a CF slot.

Personally, I wish my D7000 was set up this way.

------
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esantos Moderator Nikonians Resources Writer. Recognized for his outstanding reviews on printers and printing articles. Awarded for his high level of expertise in various areas, including Landscape Photography Awarded for his extraordinary accomplishments in Landscape Photography. His work has been exhibited at the Smithsonian. Nikonian since 10th Nov 2002Tue 07-Feb-12 03:24 PM
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#28. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 20


McAllen, US
          

Simply for versatility I would imagine. Make both camps happy a little, but neither ecstatic. A decision by committee I would assume.

Ernesto Santos
esartprints.com Ernesto Santos Photography

  

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mklass Platinum Member As a semi-professional involved in all manner of photographic genres including portraiture, sports, commercial, and events coverage, Mick is always ready to help Nikonians by sharing his deep knowledge of photography and printing. Nikonian since 08th Dec 2006Tue 07-Feb-12 11:34 AM
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#18. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Tacoma, US
          

So, I had my membership card for breakfast. I ended up putting it in a bowl with milk for breakfast. (Didn't taste much different than regular cereal, come to think of it.)

Very bold of Nikon. Quite surprising.

I'm impressed with the MP count, DX crop mode, return of the BKT button, the PC button, and the price.

I'm not so impressed with the ISO range and FPS speed.

Rather than give us a D3 light, as they did with the D700, I think Nikon gave us a D700 on steroids, which isn't a bad thing.

It will be interesting to see how the E version performs in the real world. It sounds like it is aimed at studio shooters and Nikon says it is for static subjects in controlled circumstances.

Mick
www.mickklassphoto.com
or
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PSAGuy Silver Member Nikonian since 04th Nov 2008Tue 07-Feb-12 01:57 PM
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#21. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 18


Lake Elmo, US
          

I too am really interested in LOW LIGHT performance in any pro level body. The release downplays the ISO ranges but really plays up the video....which I could give a hoot about. My D3s and D3 still seem to be the ticket. I see lots of glitz here with high MP and 1080 video....but I need guts. I need low light. I saw the price and got excited, but the way the ISO specs were downplayed in the release, turned me off immediately. DARN !

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 02:43 PM
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#24. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 21
Tue 07-Feb-12 02:48 PM by PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
          

>I too am really interested in LOW LIGHT performance in any
>pro level body. The release downplays the ISO ranges but
>really plays up the video....which I could give a hoot about.
>My D3s and D3 still seem to be the ticket. I see lots of
>glitz here with high MP and 1080 video....but I need guts. I
>need low light. I saw the price and got excited, but the way
>the ISO specs were downplayed in the release, turned me off
>immediately. DARN !

If you are interested in low light performance, get a D4.

Yes, this camera downplays the ISO performance. Nikon have a product for that already.

Nikon has been getting SLAUGHTERED by Canon in the video market for years. And I've got news for you. Those shooters are used to spending $40k-$150k for their cameras. Been there, done that. Nikon is going to sell this thing by the dozen in the film industry, and I say kudos to them for it.

Nikon has also started to lose market to those jumping to medium format cameras like the Pentax 645 and the Mamiya. Both are slightly more expensive than the D3x, but offered a lot more megapixels. The D800 will be the new price leader in the studio camera game. That's why I just placed my order for one.

This may not be the camera for you. Nikon currently have a 16MP camera that is clean out to 3200 ISO. A 12MP camera clean out to about 6400 ISO (D700) and one that can shoot pretty well out to 6400-128400 in the D3s. The D4 will build on that with more megapixels, and equal or better ISO performance.

So what is it you need to get your work done? I see no more gaps in the product line now.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Wed 08-Feb-12 06:55 AM
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#48. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 21


US
          

Nikon has designed the D800 to compete more directly against the 5D Mk II and it's replacement instead of competing against the D4. This strategy makes much more sense, as it is meant to gain market share from the competition instead of cannibalizing sales from their own flagship model.
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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cogrady Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Jan 2009Tue 07-Feb-12 02:34 PM
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#23. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Salt Lake City, US
          

Can someone explain "DX crop mode" to me? I've seen this advertised with the new D4 as well. Is there some special feature you get with these camera when you pop a DX lens on the FX body? Or is it just the typical cropping only now they're making it sound fancy?

Claudia




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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 07-Feb-12 02:43 PM
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#25. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 23


Paignton, GB
          

The "DX Crop Mode" feature has been included on all Nikon's FX cameras. It uses just the central, DX-sized, area of the sensor. It can be engaged manually, or automatically when a DX lens is mounted.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 02:45 PM
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#26. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 23


Tallahassee, US
          

>Can someone explain "DX crop mode" to me? I've
>seen this advertised with the new D4 as well. Is there some
>special feature you get with these camera when you pop a DX
>lens on the FX body? Or is it just the typical cropping only
>now they're making it sound fancy?
>
>Claudia

You can set the camera to cover the area of a DX lens, giving you the same field of view, but over less of the sensor. If you put a DX lens on the camera, it does this automatically.

------
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neversink Registered since 30th Nov 2009Wed 15-Feb-12 05:36 AM
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#108. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 26


US
          

DX crop...

It is particularly good for 1080p video. It makes video much more versatile.... with basically the same quality...

Of course, I make all my $ from still photography.... but I will be using the video features...

I have a D4 on the way.... I need it for my work.

For those who say Capture NX will take away the moire, please convince. me that nothing will be lost in the quality of the pic. I don't believe software can adequately correct moire...

I am considering purchasing both the D800 and D800E (I might need them for my work)

Anyone want to buy a D700 and D7000 and D3 with moderate to lots of clicks????

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

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pjr Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Dec 2005Tue 07-Feb-12 03:06 PM
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#27. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Manotick, CA
          

Well, yes, very exciting times and it'll be very interesting to read the in-depth reviews as they come out.

At $3,149 CDN for the D800, getting one will be a major decision requiring long thought, although right off I see it'll work very well with DX lenses at over 15 Megapixels.

I do wish they could make a full frame camera without any video features for those of us not interested in video, and offer it for a lower price.

I'll be watching for low-light/high ISO performance and handling especially, and I'll be waiting to see what the D400 is like before considering this.

I can't really see myself ever needing 36 Mpixels, although I understand why professionals would want it for very large prints.

Phil
A Canadian Nikonian
My portfolio: www.pjr99.500px.com

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 03:35 PM
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#29. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 27


Tallahassee, US
          

>I can't really see myself ever needing 36 Mpixels, although I
>understand why professionals would want it for very large
>prints.

As I keep trying to explain to people, especially sports shooters, the MP isn't about "large prints". That game was over for most people at 16MP.

More megapixels replaces ever larger lenses and multiple bodies. I'll give an example.

I shoot soccer quite often. On an FX body, I need about 600mm to fill my frame with the action on the far end of the field. By midfield, I need a 300mm. and up close I need a 70-200. And I need all of them with high ISO ability. Well, I don't have a 600mm/F4. So I shoot with a 300/2.8. And while this is ideal at midfield, it leaves me wanting on the far end. So I have to crop. Cropping to 1/2 to 1/3 of your frame when you are shooting at 12MP on the D3s is NOT ideal if you are trying to deliver a high quality 16x20.

Enter a D800. Now I can ALMOST get away with only needed the 70-200/2.8 to cover the entire field. This is a MASSIVE change in covering sports. No more lost moments while grabbing a different body. Or shooting on the 300/2.8 I can now get tight shots on the far end by cropping. And at 6fps with the grip, it's faster than my D2x, and the same as my D7000, likely with with the D7000s ISO performance.

Additionally, I doubt you are going to see any new Nikon DSLRs without video any time soon. Nikon is chasing both Canon and a money stream FAR larger than the still camera audience. If Nikon has to charge me a few hundred bucks more per camera, to ensure I don't need to keep Canon gear in the closet for my filming activities, I'm good with that.

------
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pjr Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Dec 2005Tue 07-Feb-12 03:39 PM
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#30. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 29


Manotick, CA
          

Thanks Perrone, I get it now, it's cropping ability not larger prints!

Phil
A Canadian Nikonian
My portfolio: www.pjr99.500px.com

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Tue 07-Feb-12 03:58 PM
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#32. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 30


Paignton, GB
          

>Thanks Perrone, I get it now, it's cropping ability not
>larger prints!

Actually, it's both. Printing up to around 15x10 inches from 12MP is absolutely no problem, and with some care even bigger prints are simple. But for really large prints, "there ain't no substitute for megapixels..."

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 04:00 PM
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#34. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 32


Tallahassee, US
          

>>Thanks Perrone, I get it now, it's cropping ability not
>>larger prints!
>
>Actually, it's both. Printing up to around 15x10 inches from
>12MP is absolutely no problem, and with some care even bigger
>prints are simple. But for really large prints,
>"there ain't no substitute for megapixels..."

Exactly. It's a great 2 for 1.

------
Webpage: http://www.ptfphoto.com

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Tue 07-Feb-12 03:46 PM
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#31. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


New HArtford, US
          

I hate to sound like a naysayer, but why the megapixel boost. From my understanding this will benefit you if you shoot landscapes and want to print big images. I have printed up to 20 x 30 inch prints with the crop sensor on my D7000 and they look superb.
I like the specs of the D4 better. I would imagine that the dynamic range and high iso capabilities would be better with the D4 given large pixel size with less noise. For studio work does it really matter if you shoot with 12, 16, or 36 MP when most prints will be smaller than 20 x 30 inches?
This may be helpful for wildlife shooters as the cropping capabilities will be better, But they could just shoot with a DX sensor too.

Will protrait/ studio work be better with this than a D700?

Am I missing something or is the intended audience landscape and wildlife photographers?

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 04:00 PM
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#33. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 31


Tallahassee, US
          

>This may be helpful for wildlife shooters as the cropping
>capabilities will be better, But they could just shoot with a
>DX sensor too.

The DOF is different on FX than DX. It's not just the crop.

>
>Will protrait/ studio work be better with this than a D700?

Ask the guys shooting digital medium format for #20-$45k per body.

>Am I missing something or is the intended audience landscape
>and wildlife photographers?

Wildlife, portrait, studio, fashion, outdoor sports, event and movie video people. Pretty wide swath. Probably NOT helpful to those shooting candids, family stuff, extreme low-light sports or surveillance, etc.

------
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Ruahrc Registered since 08th Jul 2007Tue 07-Feb-12 05:57 PM
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#35. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 33
Tue 07-Feb-12 06:11 PM by Ruahrc

Ann Arbor, US
          

>The DOF is different on FX than DX. It's not just the crop.

I don't think this is true. The DOF does change when you consider equal field of view, but this is not the best way to think about it. Keeping lens focal length constant, the DOF is the same, since DoF is a function of the lens optics and not the sensor.

Any "extra reach" you get from a DX sensor is solely due to the fact that historically, DX sensors had smaller pixel pitch than their FX counterparts. Now, the pixel pitch of the D7000 is basically identical to that of the D800. (A similar situation was seen in the past with the D3x and the D80- both had roughly 10MP in DX mode). If you're looking for reach, there is no difference between what the D7000 shoots and what this will shoot, you just get more "picture" around the edges per frame considering the larger sensor of the D800.

In your sports situation Perrone, assuming that the ISO capability of the D800 will be roughly the same or only slightly better than the D7000 (unproven, but a reasonable speculation), it is probably more versatile/effective to go with 2 D7000s and 2 lenses (one long, one wider) compared to one D800- for the same price. Or D7000 w/long lens for reach, and D3s with wider lens for closer action and better high-ISO, like you do now. I don't really see where adding a D800 in the mix really benefits the situation you described.

Now there are other factors to consider- the D7000 will potentially shoot faster than a D800 (unless you buy the battery grip for the D800, at which point the two will be equal) but the D800 may have better focusing because of the new module, but in terms of "cropping freedom", you gain nothing with a D800 that you don't already have with a D7000.

Norman

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Wed 08-Feb-12 10:41 AM
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#49. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E - DOF "
In response to Reply # 35


Atlanta, US
          

When talking about depth of field, Perrone is referring to the fact that to fill the frame with an FX body you are using a longer lens than on a DX body. That means more subject isolation and a shallower depth of field. I've seen this as one of the big advantages of FX over DX.

Consider the following:

If you have a D3s with a 105mm lens, an aperture of f/4 at a distance of 10 feet, you have a DOF of a little over 7 inches.

If you have a D300 with a 70mm lens, an aperture of f/4 at a distance of 10 feet your DOF is almost 12 inches.

And remember - the DOF is roughly 40% in front of your focus point and 60% behind your focus point.


Here is a DOF calculator for convenience:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

I ran into the same issue on a wildlife shoot recently. I was with someone using a D700 and the same lens as I had - a 200-400. We were standing in the same place. His images at nearly 375mm showed a nicely blurred background while mine on a D300 at 250mm showed background clutter. He had a depth of field of roughly 5 feet and mine was 7 feet. The background with clutter was around 15 feet behind the subject elk.


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Ruahrc Registered since 08th Jul 2007Thu 09-Feb-12 07:39 AM
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#55. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E - DOF "
In response to Reply # 49


Ann Arbor, US
          

This is true, but only if you equalize field of view. If you upgrade to a high resolution FX body and don't change lenses, and rely on cropping to "get you closer", there will be no difference.

Perrone was suggesting he replace his D7000 with a D800 using the same lens (at least that is how I read it), and then just cropping down. In this situation there is no advantage to the D800 in terms of resolution or DoF.

Imagine a fictional camera with an interchangeable sensor. You set it up on a tripod with one lens, and shoot the same scene while swapping out different sensors with different dimensions (FX vs DX) and different resolutions. Will the amount of blur change?

Norman

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Thu 09-Feb-12 02:21 PM
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#56. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E - DOF "
In response to Reply # 49


Tallahassee, US
          

>When talking about depth of field, Perrone is referring to
>the fact that to fill the frame with an FX body you are using
>a longer lens than on a DX body. That means more subject
>isolation and a shallower depth of field. I've seen this as
>one of the big advantages of FX over DX.

Exactly. We had moved away from conversation about me and onto the wildlife shooter that was being referenced. But beyond that, I see the same thing in filmmaking. Field of view is the overriding factor. So moving from the 1.6 to the full frame we have to grab a different lens.

In my sports situation, on my 70-200, I am shooting volleyball at VERY different focal lengths when I shift between the D7000 and the D3s. With the 70-200 on the D7000, I was often at 150-180mm. I've now had to jump to the 300mm on the D3s. Very different scenario.

------
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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Mon 13-Feb-12 03:34 PM
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#90. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E - DOF "
In response to Reply # 49


Simcoe, CA
          

That is a really nice calculator to have.
Mike

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Tue 07-Feb-12 06:23 PM
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#36. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 33


New HArtford, US
          

>>This may be helpful for wildlife shooters as the
>cropping
>>capabilities will be better, But they could just shoot
>with a
>>DX sensor too.
>
>The DOF is different on FX than DX. It's not just the crop.

Once you crop I dont think there is a difference in DOF compared with a DX. This depends of course on how you do your test, but a cropped FX with 36 MP should be similar to a DX w 16 MP at lewast for all intensive purposes.

>>
>>Will protrait/ studio work be better with this than a
>D700?
>
>Ask the guys shooting digital medium format for #20-$45k per
>body.

No doubt people do this but most images we all see are not done this way and while I dont know the answer I wonder could we tell the difference when looking at a non cropped image at normal print sizes < 20x 30inches. Wanted to hear from someone with experience comparing an FX to a medium format camera in this regard.


>>Am I missing something or is the intended audience
>landscape
>>and wildlife photographers?
>
>Wildlife, portrait, studio, fashion, outdoor sports, event and
>movie video people. Pretty wide swath.

Just wondered about the portrait and fashion if this would truely be "better"

JohnE Nikon
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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 06:56 PM
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#37. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 36


Tallahassee, US
          

>Just wondered about the portrait and fashion if this would
>truely be "better"

I'll let you know when mine comes in. I'll be comparing it to the D3s, and my D7000 for both portraits and fashion. Wish I had it today for this Valentines lingerie shoot I have tonight.

Have a good day.

------
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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Tue 07-Feb-12 11:05 PM
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#42. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 37


New HArtford, US
          

>>Just wondered about the portrait and fashion if this
>would
>>truely be "better"
>
>I'll let you know when mine comes in. I'll be comparing it to
>the D3s, and my D7000 for both portraits and fashion. Wish I
>had it today for this Valentines lingerie shoot I have
>tonight.
>
>Have a good day.

Thanks

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

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grizzly200 Registered since 18th Dec 2011Tue 07-Feb-12 07:35 PM
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#38. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 07-Feb-12 07:36 PM by grizzly200

Solano County, California, US
          

This looks like a great camera, but I think my D300 is better looking, and I don't need this many MP's. I think the length of the lens mount rectangle at the front of the camera is too long--ruins the lines of the camera, but looks aren't everything.

I do like LO1 going down to 50!!! (I used to shoot Kodachrome II and Kodachrome-X--even before they were called "25" and "64").

  

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stever365 Registered since 01st Jan 2012Tue 07-Feb-12 07:52 PM
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#39. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 38


sainte cecile du cayrou, FR
          

I've been eagerly anticipating this camera and it looks right on the money to me!
Can't wait to get my hands on one!!!

  

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Silas_Greenback Gold Member Charter MemberTue 07-Feb-12 08:44 PM
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#40. " It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 39



          

I understand almost everyone's excitement, but I would wait until the inevitable bugs are worked out. Unless you are a pro with an immediate need and resulting cash flow, I would not jump in to buy the first example of a new model and would let someone else volunteer to do the shakedown cruise work. You are generally better off being the third or fourth kid on the block to get the latest gizmo. The technology is great, but the implementation can raise issues: witness prior cameras.

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anabasis Silver Member Nikonian since 26th Sep 2003Tue 07-Feb-12 10:57 PM
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#41. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Edwardsville, US
          

Looks like a great camera for those with lots of storage space (files size on a NEF at this resolution will be huge) or who need/want video capabilities.

Frankly, the D700 is all the camera I need so will pass on this one. I'd rather buy more glass...

JCA

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MelT Registered since 06th Jul 2002Tue 07-Feb-12 11:09 PM
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#43. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0
Tue 07-Feb-12 11:12 PM by MelT

Petersburg, US
          

I find the comments found in this thread interesting. I really do not view the as an evolutionary upgrade to the D700 and simply view it as a standalone camera with its own merits and drawbacks. Actually see the D800 and the D700 being a fantastic duo of cameras but also see it as a camera being very complimentary to the D3/D4 as well.

Unlike other cameras perhaps with the exception of the D3X, I do not see the D800 being a general purpose camera but more of a niche camera. Is a 36MP camera a "general purpose" camera? Be cause of the MPs, I see it as a poor event camera with limited ISO performance. Who needs a 36MP camera for candids? It would not be practical. I find it simply amazing that it is being contemplated to be used as a sports camera because of the ability to crop? At the reported frame rate? Are you kidding? I nearly spit out my drink on the computer screen.

I just feel like the D800 would make a poor general purpose camera and high action camera. On an unlimited budget, I would have a D4 and D800 with no questions asked. There is very little overlap with how one could use the cameras. On a more limited budget, the D3/D800 combination would be fantastic as well. Again, very complimentary cameras with very little overlap. A more realistic combination for me would be a D700/D800 combination. I certainly would not sell a D700 to get a D800. It appears that the D700 makes a far better general purpose camera and would be used as such.

The D800 is a VERY exciting offering by Nikon and it will be the next camera I will buy. I am excited that the price is much lower then what was previously reported. I would buy this camera with the understanding that it is not a general purpose camera. I am excited about the MPs and the video capability. My present D2X would remain my general purpose camera unless I buy a D700 (or perhaps the D400 when it comes out). I would be happy with the D2X/D800 combination and simply forego high ISO shooting like I have for so many years.

Too many people are trying to view the D800 as a general purpose camera and I simply do not see it as one.





Mel

An Opinionated Old Curmudgeon from Virginia



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DaddySS Gold Member Nikonian since 26th Dec 2006Wed 08-Feb-12 12:34 AM
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#45. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 43


Woodcliff Lake, US
          

I think this is an amazing camera with a host of features that we can take advantage of.

Richard

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Wed 08-Feb-12 02:18 PM
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#50. "RE: It's official-- What kit now?"
In response to Reply # 43


Atlanta, US
          

Mel

Interesting points and I tend to agree. I'm trying to decide where I fall. The D7000 and D800 make a pretty good combination by sharing the same battery, charger, and SD cards - but they don't share cable releases, grips, etc. The D7000 provides a body for a light weight DX based kit. With that pair of cameras, I wonder if I will want or need my D300?

The D800 frame rate is really not that bad - just not high speed as with the frame rates of the D4. The D800 buffer is plenty large. And you could use the D800 as an event camera if you shoot JPEG rather than NEF or opt for a DX crop mode.

I also agree that simply choosing to have a 36 mp NEF file for every image is not necessarily a wise move. Bigger is not necessarily better, and creates it's own set of issues and challenges.

As for the D700 + D800 combination, they also make a good kit. The ISO performance will need some analysis to see where it falls. My guess is there will be limited advantage to the D700 due to the impact of downsizing the large D800 files. If that is the case, even the D700 seems to be less compelling for a D800 owner. The accessories are somewhat different - the battery and grip differ but the cable release is shared. Frame rate goes to the D700 slightly, but AF accuracy and speed probably goes to the D800 with the new system.

Eric Bowles
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MelT Registered since 06th Jul 2002Wed 08-Feb-12 11:56 PM
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#54. "RE: It's official-- What kit now?"
In response to Reply # 50
Wed 08-Feb-12 11:59 PM by MelT

Petersburg, US
          

Eric...you bring up something I haven't really looked at yet and that is common accessories (or differences) between cameras. I have been spoiled for a number of years having two different cameras that use the same accessories. Your point about the D7000 is valid. It will be interesting what the D400 would bring to the table as a DX offering. Since all my stuff is old, I do have options . It will really be interesting what a future D4X will have even though I know I will never be in the market for one . My days of the single digit F/D cameras are certainly over .


Mel

An Opinionated Old Curmudgeon from Virginia



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AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Thu 09-Feb-12 09:31 PM
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#57. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 43


Inverness, GB
          

Mel,

>Too many people are trying to view the D800 as a general purpose camera and I simply do not see it as one.<

I agree. From what I have read and understood, only by using the best lenses and exercising impeccable technique will all 36MP be realised. This immediately suggests tripod, tripod, tripod use to me. Not monopod, and certainly not hand holding. Yes, the D800 can be used on a monopod or hand held, but I stuggle to accept that even the most steady hand, shooting in bright lighting conditions and therefore adopting a fast shutter speed, will prevent sufficient shake to occur that will reduce a 36MP capable camera to one recording effectively far less MP.

Cheers,

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

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PerroneFord Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Apr 2011Fri 10-Feb-12 12:14 AM
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#58. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 57
Fri 10-Feb-12 12:18 AM by PerroneFord

Tallahassee, US
          

>...I
>stuggle to accept that even the most steady hand, shooting in
>bright lighting conditions and therefore adopting a fast
>shutter speed, will prevent sufficient shake to occur that
>will reduce a 36MP capable camera to one recording
>effectively far less MP.
>
>Cheers,

Really? Have you every shot or seen anyone shoot with a Hasselblad? A Mamiya? A Pentax 6x7? Have you ever watched a fashion shoot?

All of these cameras are used handheld daily, and all offer resolution FAR exceeding what the D800 is capable of. And most don't get used beyond 1/800 shutter speeds.

I will say in no uncertain terms that I think this entire "lots of megapixels means you have to use a tripod" thing is grossly overstated. We are not talking 8x10 or 4x5 view cameras here.

Watch this: http://youtu.be/vwsZYCWWE6g
And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wPD1wRpels

Handholding 33MP and 40MP medium format cameras without a worry in the least...

60MP Hassy at the beach, no monopod or tripod in sight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFmO5W5zROk

------
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Scotty Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Feb 2002Fri 10-Feb-12 04:50 AM
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#59. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 58


Ely, Cambridgeshire, GB
          

When the D1 came out I read that the resoloution for a Velvia slide was approximately the equivalent of 40MP - did we need a tripod to shoot slide?

D2Xs + AF20-35mm f2.8 + AF35-70mm f2.8 + AF80-200mm f2.8

or

FE + Nikkor 50mm f1.8 AIS

Hunger pays a heavy price to the shining Gods of speed and steel

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Alex

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AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Fri 10-Feb-12 11:27 AM
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#63. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 58


Inverness, GB
          

Perrone/Alex/Eric/Rick,

To be clear, I am not suggesting that one cannot use a D800 supported by anything other than a tripod - obviously one can. What I am suggesting is that to do otherwise will result in a loss in effective resolution of the finished image - regardless of the magnitude of loss of resolution.

What is the point of purchasing a camera if you shoot in such a way as to end up with a 36.3MP image that is effectively less MP? One may as well purchase a lower resolution camera in the first place, which by its nature will be more tolerant of movement during image capture.

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Fri 10-Feb-12 10:12 AM
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#60. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 57


Atlanta, US
          

Phase ONe has an 80 megapixel FX body. 36MP won't be a problem.

One of the quotes about technique was from someone using a 200 f/2.0 lens for a model shoot. That lens wide open will have a depth of field of an inch or less so in a studio environment the extremely sharp D800 probably was tough to hold the precise composition with the depth of field required.


Eric Bowles
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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 10-Feb-12 10:33 AM
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#61. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 57


Colorado Springs, US
          

Keep in mind that the image a D7000 produces is roughly similar to a cropped D800 image. Would you say that you can't take full advantage of a D7000's resolution? Good technique is always important, but you'll be able to handhold a D800 if you use it in a reasonable manner, just like is done right now with D7000 cameras.

BTW, I remember reading the same stuff when the D2X came out.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Fri 10-Feb-12 11:35 AM
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#64. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 61


Inverness, GB
          

Rick,

>Good technique is always important, but you'll be able to handhold a D800 if you use it in a reasonable manner...<

Reasonable manner? If I may ask, do you consider that the same image shot with a D800 from a tripod will be equally as sharp as the image shot in a "reasonable manner"?

If your answer is anything other than "yes", then surely the photographer that hand held when capturing the image has lost the benefit of some magnitude of the 36.3MP of the D800?

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Fri 10-Feb-12 11:51 AM
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#65. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 64


Paignton, GB
          

It's all relative, Rob. Within a certain range of shutter speeds, a hand-held shot will generally display lower resolution/sharpness than a shot taken using a solid tripod. But... this applies to any camera, not just the D800. I think you're worrying about something that won't be a problem in practical terms - as most D7000 owners have found.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Fri 10-Feb-12 12:16 PM
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#66. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 65


Inverness, GB
          

Hey Brian,

>Within a certain range of shutter speeds, a hand-held shot will generally display lower resolution/sharpness than a shot taken using a solid tripod. But... this applies to any camera, not just the D800.<

I appreciate that. However, the selling point of other cameras is not resolution, at least not to anything like the same extent as it is for the D800, the D3x probably being the most comparable in that sense.

I guess it just seems incongruous to me that a person would purchase a camera optimised for resolution...and then shoot images that do not deliver as much of that resolution as possible.

>I think you're worrying about something that won't be a problem...<

I'm not worried at all Brian. I respect the right of every photographer to shoot any way they choose.

Cheers,

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Fri 10-Feb-12 06:34 PM
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#67. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 66


Colorado Springs, US
          

You can't let the features of a camera paralyze you into only one way of shooting. When you need the utmost in resolution from any camera, a tripod is smart. When you don't need that, you don't need a tripod. The D800 is no different.

I guess I could force myself to switch to a lower resolution camera when shooting handheld shots that are less serious, but why would I do that?

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Fri 10-Feb-12 08:22 PM
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#68. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 67


Inverness, GB
          

Rick,

>I guess I could force myself to switch to a lower resolution camera when shooting handheld shots that are less serious, but why would I do that?<

Perhaps because you own a D3s, which in my opinion is the more appropriate camera for hand held shooting. Do you not instinctively reach for that camera over the D3x when shooting hand held?

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

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ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Fri 10-Feb-12 08:56 PM
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#69. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 68


Atlanta, US
          

You have to remember that one of the promotional videos for the D800 was a motorcycle shoot at night. No tripod - just lots of motion. And there were plenty of handheld stills behind the scenes. I'm not sure that having lots of megapixels is a reason to avoid using the camera.

Of course, you could want small files or a number of other reasons, but it's not because of image quality. Just shoot JPEG if you want small files.

Another reason to avoid a camera might be size and weight. But the D800 is smaller and lighter than the D700 - and much smaller than the D3/D3s/D4.

You can opt for a D4 or even a D3s, but it's not because the D800 is a poor tool because it has high resolution. You're not choosing a D1 or D2 over a D3 because it has lower pixels and makes sharper images.

The D800 is closer to the right tool than the camera used for 95% of the images you see every day. I think the exceptionally high demand is a pretty good indicator of what people think. Servers went down all over the internet with news of the release. Nikon Rumors has a poll with more than 5000 people indicating they ordered the camera within 48 hours. Amazon stopped taking pre-orders - as did a number of other retailers. And the posts here are off the chart compared to any other new camera or lens.

Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
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Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Sat 11-Feb-12 12:30 AM
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#71. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 68


Colorado Springs, US
          

I have been known to do the unthinkable and handhold my D3X.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Mon 13-Feb-12 03:10 PM
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#87. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 71


Canton, US
          

>I have been known to do the unthinkable and handhold my D3X.

Blasphemy! I had my D3x welded to my tripod!

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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EpicDan Silver Member Charter MemberTue 14-Feb-12 07:31 PM
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#107. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 68
Tue 14-Feb-12 07:33 PM by EpicDan

St. Paul, US
          

I think we're mixing pixels and percents.

I had a D2H. It required a tripod to maximize the available resolution. It was 4MP. Some photographers argued that a tripod was more critical to the D2H than a higher resolution camera because you had less resolution to sacrifice with a lower pixel count.

My experience is people (including me at times) mix pixels and percents. If a camera moves 1% of the image capturing device (film, FX, DX, Medium format, Large format . . .) during the capture then blur will always be the same when the photo is viewed in its entirety. The blur will be 1%. 1% blur across a 4MP camera is a lot less pixels than it is on a 128MP medium format. Viewed at 100% on a monitor the higher resolution device will show blur across more pixels.

Lower resolution cameras don’t hide blur – it just shows differently. Consider a D2H (4MP) and a D800 (36MP) moved the equivalent of one pixel width on the D800 during capture. The D800 shows motion blur – detail is streaked across two pixels. It is motion. The D2H may not show visible blur but the pixels will all have a color shift because they spent some of the capture time receiving light intended for the next pixel over. Edges become muddy. The details look good but the whole photo is a bit softer.

1% blur is still 1%. And 0.00001% is still 0.00001%. A high resolution camera allows us to more precisely define how far the camera moved. A high resolution camera allows us to print larger and show the motion. A 4MP camera printed at the same size with the same amount of motion shows the same motion but we wouldn’t readily print 4MP at 20x30. Print the 36MP at 4x6. No blur. Pixels and percents – not the same thing.

Daniel McGowan
Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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MelT Registered since 06th Jul 2002Sat 11-Feb-12 12:02 AM
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#70. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 61


Petersburg, US
          

>BTW, I remember reading the same stuff when the D2X came out.
>

Yup...there were people who swore up and down that a tripod was needed to get a sharp image on a D2X. Funny thing is that I shot it in the exact same manner of my D2H and I was able to get sharp images. There are a lot of overstatements going on but that is par for the course when a new camera is released.


Mel

An Opinionated Old Curmudgeon from Virginia



Website - www.meltalley.com
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jfinigan Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Jul 2009Sat 11-Feb-12 04:25 PM
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#72. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 43


Vienna, US
          

* OK guys, I'm lost. I've been waiting for a full frame Nikon on which to use faster glass.
* I'm just an amateur using the D200, a Nikkor AF-S 18-200mm f3.6-5.6 VR zoom as an all purpose lens, a couple of SB-800 flashes, and infrequently a beanbag/monopod/tripod.
* Was hoping the D800 might be Nikon's answer to the latest full frame, general purpose, handlheld capable, low-light, reasonable FPS, but AF tack sharp capable machine on which I could add some faster lense(s).
* Am I looking at the wrong camera?

Thanks. John.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Sat 11-Feb-12 05:21 PM
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#73. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 72


New HArtford, US
          

>* OK guys, I'm lost. I've been waiting for a full frame Nikon
>on which to use faster glass.
>* I'm just an amateur using the D200, a Nikkor AF-S 18-200mm
>f3.6-5.6 VR zoom as an all purpose lens, a couple of SB-800
>flashes, and infrequently a beanbag/monopod/tripod.
>* Was hoping the D800 might be Nikon's answer to the latest
>full frame, general purpose, handlheld capable, low-light,
>reasonable FPS, but AF tack sharp capable machine on which I
>could add some faster lense(s).
>* Am I looking at the wrong camera?
>
>Thanks. John.

I think this camera would be a great "General Purpose" camera, but is geared toward extremely high resolution needs (landscape, studio, fashion).

For general purpose work you will get an FX camera with similar capabilites(pixel pitch and high iso capabilites) to the D7000 a DX camera. Focus accuracy should be better.

For low light capabilities the D4 would definately be better and the D700 would likely be better as it is better than the D7000.
The D4 and d700 would likely be more foregiving to handheld camera shake.
Your 18-200 would not be the best lens as it could only be used in crop mode. You are better off with a 28-300 as a multipurpose lens with on an FX. All new FX lenses especially zooms come with a high price tag and weight. You need to be sure of the advantages vs disadvantages of moving from Dx to FX especially when the DX camera's have come a long way.
If the D800 had the same sensor as the D4 I would consider making this switch myself, but the price tag of the D4 is too much at this time and the camera is too big for my purposes.

Good luck.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

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Floridian Silver Member Nikonian since 11th Feb 2007Sat 11-Feb-12 07:19 PM
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#74. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 72


Tallahassee, Florida, US
          

>... I've been waiting for a full frame Nikon...
>... I'm just an amateur...
>...Am I looking at the wrong camera?

Sounds like I'm in the same situation you are. I have a D300, use my 18-200 a lot, and am an amateur hobbyist.

The D4 and D800 look like fabulous cameras, but neither one is for me. For one thing, I don't need more pixels for anything I do, and for another thing, DX is a better format for me, not because of the DX sensor but because of the lenses. To get the same field of view, an FX kit would be bigger, heavier, and more expensive, and all of those are drawbacks. So you should consider how much of an advantage an FX setup would be to you. In my situation I'm thinking it would be big costs, not only in money, but in size and weight, for minimal benefit. That's an argument that you are looking at the wrong camera.

You can add faster lenses now, for your D200. Mostly I use slow zooms, but when I want something faster I've added some fast primes to go with my slow zooms. I have the 35 f1.8, 50 f1.4, and 85 f1.8, which all are at least twice as fast as a big, expensive f2.8 zoom. The 50 and 85 are FX-compatible, and if you really think you might go FX someday you could get the 35 f2, which is an FX lens. You'd then have some good fast primes to shoot with your current camera, all of which could migrate to FX. But as I said above, it may be that sticking with DX would be the better option for you. I know it is for me.

The D400 may be introduced later this year, which may be a better option. (The D7000 may be a better option too.) I do think that some people move from DX to FX because they think it is a "move up" which may improve their photography, but that for many people this isn't a good move. The size and weight is a hindrance, and realistically, how much of a difference can you see between a DX photo and an FX photo? What is it that your D200 isn't doing for you now?

Randy

  

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Scotty Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Feb 2002Wed 08-Feb-12 04:49 AM
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#46. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Ely, Cambridgeshire, GB
          

Curses to Nikon!!! For years I have been happy with my D200 - there was not enough in the D300 line to tempt me. I sort of liked the look of the D3 - THEN they release 2 cameras that make me yearn to move up - D4 (just beautiful) and the D800 - now how do I get £8K together to buy them both? Curses, curses, CURSES!!!!

D2Xs + AF20-35mm f2.8 + AF35-70mm f2.8 + AF80-200mm f2.8

or

FE + Nikkor 50mm f1.8 AIS

Hunger pays a heavy price to the shining Gods of speed and steel

Check out my website...
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Alex

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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MEMcD Moderator In depth knowledge in various areas Nikonian since 24th Dec 2007Wed 08-Feb-12 06:32 AM
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#47. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

NAS is starting to kick into overdrive!
Good Luck and Enjoy your Nikons!

Best Regards,
Marty

  

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Scotty Silver Member Nikonian since 07th Feb 2002Wed 08-Feb-12 04:31 PM
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#52. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 47


Ely, Cambridgeshire, GB
          

I don't usually suffer from NAS but the D4 had me yearning and now the D800 ditto...

D2Xs + AF20-35mm f2.8 + AF35-70mm f2.8 + AF80-200mm f2.8

or

FE + Nikkor 50mm f1.8 AIS

Hunger pays a heavy price to the shining Gods of speed and steel

Check out my website...
http://alexjpscott.wix.com/photography

LIKE me on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/AlexJPScottPhotography

Follow my blog...

http://alexjpscottphotography.blogspot.co.uk/


Look me up on Flickr...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alex_jp_scott/


Alex

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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RAJMiller Gold Member Nikonian since 05th Jun 2006Wed 08-Feb-12 09:10 PM
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#53. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 52
Wed 08-Feb-12 09:16 PM by RAJMiller

Boddelwyddan, GB
          

Perhaps a word of caution is needed at this point - Having looked at the Nikon Release and the pictures attached - YES you have great detail BUT I think the D800 sensor is going to push some of your lenses to their limits and beyond. Any flaws - focus not quite on, cheap lenses etc are going to scream at you from the images they obtain and make some people blame the Nikon Body rather than their not quite perfect glass. So loads more work for Nikon Service Centres as we all send our lenses to be cleaned and re-calibrated??? Still, I cannot wait to get my hands on one......


PS . How many pixels in the D4X.....?

"I take photos of what I like, If
someone else likes it - that's a bonus!"
Andy M

Nikon D800 etc More than enough.
My Gallery http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/useralbums.php

  

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rectangularimage Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Oct 2009Wed 08-Feb-12 02:35 PM
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#51. "Thom Hogan dispels D800 misunderstandings"
In response to Reply # 0


San Diego, US
          

bythom.com

Notably: the E version doesn't merely have something removed, it has the AA filter replaced with another kind of filter.

(Can't direct link to articles on that site so it will soon scroll off the front page, but if you search that site for "Miss Conceptions and Mister Correction" you'll find the article.)

...Mike

My website | My Nikonians gallery

  

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cascade Registered since 05th Feb 2012Fri 10-Feb-12 11:05 AM
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#62. "Video with the D800"
In response to Reply # 51


US
          

http://vimeo.com/36305675

http://vimeo.com/36306101

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Sun 12-Feb-12 11:11 PM
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#75. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0
Mon 13-Feb-12 08:38 AM by agitater

Toronto, CA
          

I predicted that Nikon would not be releasing a 36 megapixel FX body. So much for being adamant about that. I have issues with the D800 even before I get one in my hands.

1. CF + SD = carrying two different card formats while traveling. Having two card slots is better than the single slot in the D700 for sure but a mix of CF & SD makes no sense to/for me even after reading the some of the explanations. We can be thankful that Nikon did not include the so far near-orphan XQD slot found in the D4.

2. I definitely prefer a separate AF-ON button, but the D800 doesn't have one. The AE-L/AF-L implementation is lifted from the D7000 apparently, and that's a good thing IMO, but I want a separate button that is singularly programmable. CORRECTION: Sorry, and thank you to jckrauskopf for pointing out my mistake. Of course the D800 has a dedicated AF-ON button. I confused it with the D4 which, as Gromit44 also pointed out, has an AF-ON button, but as I originally pointed out earlier in the D4 announcement thread I think, does not have a dedicated AE-L/AF-L button. <sigh> I really must stop posting at stupid times in the middle of the night.

3. I'm not anticipating a great outcome trying to shoot the D800 with anything less than stellar, pro Nikkor, f/2.8 lenses. Problem is, because of the superb results I believe I'm getting out of the Nikkon 24-120 f/4 VRII and other non-pro lenses, I've been carrying less lens weight for the past year or more. How forgiving the D800 turns out to be with respect to consumer or mid-range glass remains to be seen. Whatever lens is offered in its first bundle will likely tell the tale. Perhaps it will be the 24-120 f/4?

4. 75% or more of the Nikon shooters I talk to on a regular basis and who also own either a D300s, a D7000 or a D3s, don't shoot video. Marketing brainwashing, I think, has far too many active amateur photographers convinced that a video subsystem is the way of the future. The only problem is that these DSLR bodies still can't function as simply or in as versatile a manner as a $199 video camera. The still photo subsystem can work as a P&S, a serious shooter or a pro studio shooter, but the video side (even this latest generation) is only for the very determined video shooter IMO. Maybe the next gen will take the next, best step. So what I want from Nikon is a professional still photo camera, FX, 16 megapixels, no video and no video buttons and controls which displace still photo buttons and controls from the best positions on the camera body.

5. People buy this stuff thinking, "Oh cool, I'll be able to shoot great video!" but then never do. Or perhaps they shoot a few minutes worth here & there, but end up ignoring it when they realize that a good portion of the effort they've put in over the years learning Photoshop or ACDSee Pro or Lightroom or Aperture or Capture NX has to now be put into learning video editing (the best of which software is not for the faint of heart).

I wonder what a new model, pro, still-photo-only Nikon DSLR would cost these days? After all, the D800 (photo + video) has hit the market at the same introductory price as the D700 (photo only). I wish Nikon had put some effort into a companion D800 still photo only model instead of the D800E.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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jckrauskopf Registered since 18th Dec 2005Mon 13-Feb-12 04:56 AM
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#76. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 75


Portola Valley, US
          

D800 does have AF-On (which I prefer as well). Check out the photos of it's back on Nikon's website.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 13-Feb-12 06:45 AM
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#77. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 76


Toronto, CA
          

>D800 does have AF-On (which I prefer as well). Check out the
>photos of it's back on Nikon's website.

Arrgh! I confused it with the D4 - sorry. Everything else stands in my post though.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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Gromit44 Registered since 04th Jan 2012Mon 13-Feb-12 08:11 AM
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#78. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 77


GB
          

>>D800 does have AF-On (which I prefer as well). Check out
>the photos of it's back on Nikon's website.
>
>Arrgh! I confused it with the D4 - sorry. Everything else
>stands in my post though.
>

The D4 has an AF-ON button in the usual place - http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d4/ZUR2BACK.JPG

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 13-Feb-12 08:20 AM
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#79. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 78
Mon 13-Feb-12 08:38 AM by agitater

Toronto, CA
          

>>>D800 does have AF-On (which I prefer as well). Check
>out
>>the photos of it's back on Nikon's website.
>>
>>Arrgh! I confused it with the D4 - sorry. Everything else
>>stands in my post though.
>>
>
>The D4 has an AF-ON button in the usual place -
>

Still arrgh! Mustn't type at stupid hours of the night. But no dedicated AE-L/AF-L button on the D4, which I pointed out much earlier in the D4 announcement thread (or was it the other monster thread?). Don't like the absent AE-L/AF-L button on the D4.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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Gromit44 Registered since 04th Jan 2012Mon 13-Feb-12 09:02 AM
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#81. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 79


GB
          

>Don't like the absent AE-L/AF-L button on the D4.
>

Neither do I Howard. It's been replaced by the top joystick so presumably there's another (more complicated) way of locking AE and AF.

I don't like those joysticks - they're similar to the one on the MB-D10 which was just too small and fiddly to use.


Simon.

  

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Tekkie Silver Member Nikonian since 22nd Apr 2006Mon 13-Feb-12 08:39 AM
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#80. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 75


Montville, US
          

I agree with Agitator.
Video is of no use in my shooting preference. Why does Nikon drive me to pay more $ for something I do not want in a full frame camera?

  

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nikonian4me Registered since 21st Jan 2009Mon 13-Feb-12 10:15 AM
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#82. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 80


Haugesund, NO
          

I do 360o panoramic pictures and processes them to tiled pictures displayed on the web. The tiling allows for the viewer to download just the part of the total that he is looking at. The D800 will allow for a lot more zooming-in than is possible with the pictures I make from the 10Mpx I get from my D80 today. But alas, the processing time and storing needs will suffer...

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 13-Feb-12 10:23 AM
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#83. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 82


Toronto, CA
          

I think Thom Hogan was one of the first photography bloggers to remind his readers that D800 users are likely going to need a lot of extra processing power to handle full size files - even the larger/fine JPG files generated by the camera. NEF and TIF files are even larger.

Quad core and higher, eight core is better, lots of fast RAM and plenty of on-board video card memory too. It will be interesting to see how well Lightroom, ACDSee Pro, Aperture, Photoshop and Photoshop Elements handle such big NEF/RAW files.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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AreBee Registered since 27th Apr 2008Mon 13-Feb-12 11:29 AM
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#85. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 82


Inverness, GB
          

Elfinn,

>The D800 will allow for a lot more zooming-in than is possible with the pictures I make from the 10Mpx I get from my D80 today. But alas, the processing time and storing needs will suffer...<

That may turn out to be the least of your problems. If a stitched panorama with signifcantly greater resolution than that which you currently obtain from your D80 is converted to a Flash or Quicktime movie for upload to the internet then it stands to reason that it will take those attempting to view the movie significantly longer to open the file.

Web users are not known for their patience.

Rob
www.robbuckle.co.uk

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Mon 13-Feb-12 05:26 PM
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#96. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 75


Canton, US
          

I fully agree with your points (excepting for the second one, which has been corrected, of course.)

I don't see the D800 at all as a replacement for the D3x, otherwise it would have been been introduced instead of the D4 as Nikon's new flagship body. Personally, I would love to get a D800 to replace my D300 to use as a high resolution FX backup to my D3x. But that would still require $3K that I don't have right now...

OTOH, if this drives the price of a used D700 down even further, I wouldn't mind getting one of those to replace my D300.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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LMMiller9 Silver Member Nikonian since 18th Dec 2005Mon 13-Feb-12 05:38 PM
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#97. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 75
Mon 13-Feb-12 05:40 PM by LMMiller9

Potomac, US
          

Howard, I think there is a point you are missing.

Asking how many Nikonians, or Nikon photographers you meet how many care about shooting video is a bit like asking how many people you meet in Kansas want to learn French; or how many people at the Westminster Dog Show like dogs, or would rather have a cat.

These are self-selected groups that will give you an answer based on the criteria by which they selected themselves into the group. The real question (if you were Nikon executives) is how large the total universe for those who want a high level DSLR with high quality video. The sales of the Canon 5D provide a lot of the answer to that.

I know from people who are in the video business, that they are very excited about this camera. You should also know that full length documentary films have been shot using the 5D.

One of the great advantages of these cameras over dedicated video cameras, is the great assortment of very high quality lenses. This is a huge asset to anyone wanting to shoot video.

Also, Nikon has to look at the long term trends in the "imaging" business and ask "where are things going?" not where have they been. There is no question that they are going in the direction of integrated devices. It may be true that you only use your cell phone for making calls. But ask your children or grandchildren. That is the least of their concern. They want browsing, texting, a camera, and music device, games, all rolled into one tiny package. Oh, yeah, they may also call home occasionally.

I think the video capability will be a huge factor in the sale of these cameras, but not among Nikonians.

Larry Miller, Potomac, MD
DF/D800
http://www.pbase.com/lmmiller9
http://lmmillerphotography.smugmug.com/

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 13-Feb-12 09:18 PM
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#104. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 97


Toronto, CA
          

Larry, I'm not missing any of the points you've made mainly because they've all been made before - some of them even repeated in the past by me too. Still, I'm glad you stated them so clearly in your post. All correct IMO. My point, however, was direct and was never touted as some sort of market representation - it was only that there are, IMO, an enormous number of Nikon customers who are buying these video-enabled still cameras with no prospects for or genuine interest in video. I say we need a top quality stills-only FX body at a much lower price point than the D800.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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Matto Silver Member Nikonian since 20th Jan 2007Tue 14-Feb-12 04:41 PM
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#106. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 104


Glenwood, US
          

Howard
I agree with you on your last sentence, I have been hoping for such a camera for some time now. Not just price, but size. Leica did it on size anyway, not price.

Matthew

  

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neversink Registered since 30th Nov 2009Wed 15-Feb-12 05:59 AM
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#109. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 104


US
          

In order for Nikon to compete, they must include video. I doubt Nikon thinks it could put out a still camera without any video and succeed.... So they are trying to combine the best of both. I will be happy with the D4 for my professional and gallery stills. I will also purchase both D800 and 800E. As a still photographer, I am happy Nikon is taking this route. This is the only way they will survive and will ensure that my Nikon glass will remain relevant and can be used in future camera bodies.... I will be also using these new cameras for video. Even semi-retired pros can still learn a few new tricks....

Everything always evolves. Change is important. I still yearn for the old days of film (and I still shoot film whenever I get a chance or succumb to that primal urge-- please don't tell my clients.....)

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Wed 15-Feb-12 11:23 PM
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#123. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 109


Toronto, CA
          

>In order for Nikon to compete, they must include video. I
>doubt Nikon thinks it could put out a still camera without any
>video and succeed.... So they are trying to combine the best
>of both.

One, new, pro-grade body in the same general configuration as the D700 is all I ask. Not every camera body in the Nikon line-up has to be still only. Video does not have to be included in every single Nikon body in order for the company to succeed.

>Everything always evolves. Change is important.

Right. But change primarily for its own sake is foolish.

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Howard Carson

  

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EpicDan Silver Member Charter MemberThu 16-Feb-12 09:35 AM
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#129. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 123


St. Paul, US
          

Bottom line, if Nikon could make more from stills-only camera then they would. Leica sells 'stills only' camera to their target market. We can see how much cheaper it is to sell fewer cameras with a smaller feature set. How much more are you willing to pay for a dedicated still camera?

Manufacturing has strong returns to scale. Making a camera requires X resources. Making a camera with video and stills requires X plus a small amount. Selling a few stills-only cameras requires the same manufacturing resources as making a lot more stills and video cameras. The marginal rate of return from increased sales is more than the additional rate of cost for adding video. Competitive pressure means the additional margin has to be passed to the customer as a lower price because the competition does it too. The manufactures are back to the same margins but the consumer has a lower price.

News web sites force me to suffer through reading all that advertisement drivel and articles I don't want to read. Just give me the news I want! Of course, the other articles generate enough traffic to keep the site alive. The advertisement pays the bills. I read the news I want to read, skip the others, and ignore the ads. Get the D800, skip the features you don't use, and ignore the video. It's cheaper that way. Or buy Leica, Ken Rockwell loves his M9.

Daniel McGowan
Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Thu 16-Feb-12 12:50 PM
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#134. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 129


Toronto, CA
          

I do not agree. To suggest that Nikon could not profitably design, build and sell a stills-only pro body is just wrong. All you've repeated or restated in your post are the obviously well-marketed, common knowledge data points that many consumers and plenty of biusiness people have been conditioned to repeat on command. Economies of scale exist, as you've stated, and everybody knows it. But implicit in your post is that without great economies of scale, a stills-only Nikon pro body could not be a profitable product. I disagree.

I also have no idea how KR and Leica seemed to you to be appropriate comparisons or recommendations here - after all, even KR has baldly stated, repeatedly, that Leica has given up its traditional place in the market in favor of its repositioning as a luxury goods maker. I think that part of your post is inappropriate.

As for your other advice (ignoring what isn't needed), all I can say is that I wasn't born yesterday and don't really need such advice. Anyway, such advice breaks down rapidly for most product purchase considerations. Bsides that, IMO, such advice is also too much of a concession to marketplaces that frantically promote and shout "Economies of scale! Economies of scale!" and then persuade too many of us to buy things we don't need. Thanks for the consideration though.

I think that the D800 is completely useless for my needs - unfortunate in some respects, but then also noteworthy because it makes me appreciate my D700 all that much more.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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blubdog Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Sep 2008Thu 16-Feb-12 01:21 PM
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#138. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 134


Hurricane, US
          

>I do not agree. To suggest that Nikon could not profitably
>design, build and sell a stills-only pro body is just wrong.

I also have no use for video in a camera, and would gladly save money by purchasing a camera without the option. And I suspect there are a lot of like minded people. Sure Nikon could make such a camera, but I'm not convinced they could do so PROFITABLY.

What is the technical differences between a D800 w/video and a D800 without video? Is it just a firmware difference? If so, then Nikon cannot make a profit on selling a D800 without video cheaper. In fact it would cost them money to maintain two different firmware versions.

Are there any hardware differences between a D800 with/without video? (I really don't know) If there is, how much can Nikon save on hardware costs by manufacturing a no-video D800? It would have to be a LOT of savings to make up the R&D development costs, packaging costs, software costs, and other overhead of maintaining another separate camera model.

Sometimes features you don't need are included just because it's cheaper overall to manufacture and maintain fewer models and options.

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Thu 16-Feb-12 01:44 PM
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#139. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 138


Toronto, CA
          


>Sometimes features you don't need are included just because
>it's cheaper overall to manufacture and maintain fewer models
>and options.

I think that's true often enough to make it noteworthy, and if I didn't phrase my reply to Daniel that way then I should have.

The thing is, Nikon has been making stills-only cameras for a very long time. To preserve a single pro or enthusiast, full-frame, stills-only body has to be possible.

The D800 and D800E are product SKUs that more and more seem to me to be aimed almost squarely at landscape and studio shooters primarily. Retouchers are going to love all those pixels to move around and edit to make big people look small, small people look smaller, make bad complexions looks good and good complexions look even better. For retouchers, it's all about having enormous amounts of pixel data to play with and the D800 will be a dream no doubt. For the fashion crowd too, they'll soon be asking full frame shooters why they don't have either a D800/800E or an even more insane 80mp PhaseOne back or system. For the next year or two, D4x and D800 in the studio will be vastly less expensive choices than the PhaseOne options except for those studio shooters who need to supply 65mp+ files. Then Canon will come out with something to continue the competitive cycle.

For street photographers like me, the D800/800E is useless. If I can't easily shoot a camera body/lens combination handheld, the gear doesn't hit my radar.

Seems to me then that buying a D800 is only the first step in the acquisition process. A really, really good tripod is next (the good 'ol Manfrotto Pro90 ain't gonna cut it for a lot of situations anymore), average glass will have to be upgraded (of course average glass will work on the D800 just as well as it does on a D4x, but large apertures won't consistently deliver satisfying results through average glass), a big and rock solid ball head will be an absolute must. Add it all up, for some photographers enthusiastically participating in this huge thread, and the cost of a couple of lenses, tripod and head will exceed the cost of the D800 body.

Be careful what you wish for.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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neversink Registered since 30th Nov 2009Thu 16-Feb-12 01:45 PM
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#140. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 134


US
          

Agitator - I see why you have chosen your name. You should calm down, relax and build a pinhole camera and take a few photos with it. It will slow you down for a day or two and relax you. Breathe in, Breathe out......

Things change. Without change we have stagnation. In this day and age, the reality is that a still camera without video will cost more and may not be as advanced. (Take a look at the Leica digital line!!!!! They have had no choice but to go into the luxury market, because they have become a relic, and I love my old film Leicas which I still shoot with... )

Nikon has to compete with Canon and yes even with Sony and all the other wannabes out there. If you don't like video, don't use it. I can assure you that Nikon made this choice in order to produce and sell more cameras at a somewhat reasonable price.

As I have stated before, I am a still photographer and have made my living from still photography for more than 30 years... However, I welcome the video. For me, it is a plus. It gives me another tool that just a still camera without video for the same price, or even higher cannot give me. Nikon has not compromised witht he features on the still side of the camera.

So...

Go build that pinhole camera already and relax. Slow down and live life a little....


>
> I think that the D800 is completely useless for my needs -
>unfortunate in some respects, but then also noteworthy because
>it makes me appreciate my D700 all that much more.
>
With this I agree with you. But then again, I say the same thing about film vs digital. I LOVE FILM! (There- I've shouted it.) However, I was forced to switch to digital because of the "economies of scale" that you say we need to ignore. Unfortunately, my bank account and my clients did not ignore the "economies of scale." My bank account went down, and my clients, who used love that i was the last photographer shooting film professionally that they knew of suddenly balked when the housing and banking crisis hit them. Talk about "economies of scale!!!!"

By the way, i still shoot film for clients on the sly and they still love the results even though they claim they can't afford film or wait for the turn-around time involved with film. The fact is, they don't know what they want. They just live in a digital world where everything has to be delivered immediately. Without immediate gratification, they are completely lost. These are the people I have to deal with. It is sad and I am glad I had a great career in film. But to continue in professional photography I had to change.

My point is that you need to accept what is out there, and understand the reality of the world, or you will become bitter. Acceptance of change is important. We may not always like what we see, but to survive we need to be flexible. If you don't like the D800, stick with your D700.

I have no choice. I have to replace my D3s and D700 because of the amount of clicks on both bodies are in the hundreds of thousands and I am going to buy the D4 and D800 and D800E because of all the new features.

Everything has its limitations. That is why, until they stop making film, I will always continue to shoot it, but I make most of my living with digital. Though I went into digital reluctantly, I now love it as another image capturing medium.

I look forward to making my first feature light film with Nikon's new cameras. See you at the box office!!!!!

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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Uncle Dubi Registered since 07th Nov 2011Mon 13-Feb-12 11:08 AM
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#84. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


GB
          

Firstly, I'm glad I hadn't already ordered the D4.
I'm waiting for my new V1 to be superseded within a month.
But what I'm really waiting for is a D8000E. Any rumours?
Ted

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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blubdog Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Sep 2008Mon 13-Feb-12 01:16 PM
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#86. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Hurricane, US
          

Does the D800 obsolete the D3X? Has the D3X been discontinued by Nikon, or will it be now?

Will we be seeing a lot of used D3X bodies being sold for far less than a new D800?
Or is there some big advantage of a D3X over a D800 that I'm unaware of?

I'd consider picking one a excellent condition D3X for around $2000 USD.

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Mon 13-Feb-12 03:12 PM
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#88. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 86


Canton, US
          

I don't think so. They may stop producing the D3x, and its value on the used market may drop; but in terms of its ability to continue to capture amazingly detailed images with great dynamic range, that camera won't be obsolete for many years.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Mon 13-Feb-12 03:24 PM
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#89. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 86


Toronto, CA
          


>I'd consider picking one a excellent condition D3X for around
>$2000 USD.

So would a lot of other people too, but the 24 megapixel D3x produces superb images. For almost all intents and purposes, for most photographers, I think any differences in technical image quality between the D3x, D4 and D800 is either extremely difficult or impossible to see. That's why, IMO, nobody in their right mind should be selling a D3x to get a D4 or D800 unless they need more advanced video. Look for the D3x price to hold up quite well, which is good for sellers but not so good for bargain hunters.

My Photo.Net Gallery
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Howard Carson

  

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blubdog Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Sep 2008Mon 13-Feb-12 03:36 PM
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#91. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 89


Hurricane, US
          

=>>I'd consider picking one a excellent condition D3X for around $2000 USD.
>
>So would a lot of other people too, but the 24 megapixel D3x
>produces superb images. For almost all intents and purposes,
>for most photographers, I think any differences in technical
>image quality between the D3x, D4 and D800 is either extremely
>difficult or impossible to see. That's why, IMO, nobody in
>their right mind should be selling a D3x to get a D4 or D800
>unless they need more advanced video. Look for the D3x price
>to hold up quite well, which is good for sellers but not so
>good for bargain hunters.

But is a D3X worth $5000 more than a D800? I can't see how, but I guess we'll have to wait to see how the photos compare after the D800's start shipping.

I have no doubts that a lot of people will hang on to their D3X, even if the D800 makes superior photos. Maybe as a backup for the D800, or just because they don't want to take such a huge loss selling it.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the D3X.

  

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Ruahrc Registered since 08th Jul 2007Mon 13-Feb-12 04:49 PM
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#92. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 91


Ann Arbor, US
          

I think with the D800 the resale value of the D3X has been decimated. And, the massive overpricing Nikon did with it exposed. IMHO you'd be foolish to pay more than $2500 for a used one. Frankly the D800 is as good or better than the D3x in every way. It makes no sense to pay 1.5 or even 2x the cost of a brand new D800 for a used D3x that is inferior in every aspect. Is it worth an extra $2000 just to get the "full-size" body style? Good luck to those listing their used D3x bodies at $5500+ on the buy/sell forum.

This is not to say that the D3x is a bad camera in any way. I'm just saying that while $5500 may have been a reasonable resell price the day before the D800 announcement, it dropped to less than half that the day after.

Norman

Some of my pictures

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Mon 13-Feb-12 05:12 PM
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#93. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 92


Canton, US
          

>It makes no sense to pay 1.5 or even 2x the
>cost of a brand new D800 for a used D3x that is inferior in
>every aspect.

I think that is a bit of a stretch. From the sample images on Nikon's website, I don't see at all how the D800 produces images superior to the D3x in any way. At this point we don't even know how the dynamic range of the D800 compares to the D3x, which is outstanding. (We can assume both are comparable, but we just don't know yet.) The D800 does have the video capability and faster electronics inside, but the D3x still has the more robust "pro" body with redundant controls for landscape and portrait shooting, as well as multiple displays, things which are indeed important to many users.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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Gromit44 Registered since 04th Jan 2012Mon 13-Feb-12 05:40 PM
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#98. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 93


GB
          

>...... as well as multiple displays .......>

Do you mean the info screens Steve?

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Mon 13-Feb-12 07:27 PM
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#101. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 98


Canton, US
          

Yes.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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Gromit44 Registered since 04th Jan 2012Mon 13-Feb-12 05:20 PM
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#94. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 92


GB
          

>I'm just saying that while $5500 may have been a reasonable
>resell price the day before the D800 announcement, it dropped
>to less than half that the day after.
>
That's a sweeping statement. A used D3x sold on ebay UK only yesterday for £3,300, which is around $5,216. It attracted 11 bidders and 30 bids.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Mon 13-Feb-12 05:22 PM
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#95. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 92


New HArtford, US
          

I wonder if D700 used prices will drop. I bet they dont too much. The D700 produces superb images. In low light the D4 will likely crush it but the D700 will likely be superior to the D800. The D700 will also be more forgiving with camera shake. Does anyone think the D700 used market will suffer? I hope so then I may try FX.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

https://picasaweb.google.com/104310967428146619677


"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jmlevi Gold Member Nikonian since 06th Feb 2012Mon 13-Feb-12 07:11 PM
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#99. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Northridge, US
          

I've read with great interest the opinions of my fellow Nikonians regarding this introduction by Nikon. I have also noted and appreciate the distinction made between the "printing larger prints" and "crop factor" as being the true difference or advantage between FX and DX format. I had my own commercial photographic studios in Barcelona, Spain and Rome, Italy from the early 70s to the mid 80s and everything was shot on film in those days: 35mm, Hasselblad 2x2 or Mamiya 6x7. I also had a Sinar 8x10 and Linhof 4x5 plate cameras for studio product work.
The main advertising media in Europe then was billboards and street posters and I learned to frame my work in the viewfinders of the 35mm, 2x2 and the 6x7 format so as not to have to crop in the lab. The entire frame was needed to satisfy billboard and street poster sizes. Thus for me personally, having the D7000 DX format camera with a sensor size of 6x14 does not represent any problem because I frame the picture as I did in Europe using the full frame in the viewfinder and get superb if not stunning (pardon my boasting) 20x30 prints at 200 dpi. I admit to still adapting to digital since after an absence from photography for more than twenty years so I don't pretend to be an expert in the digital field.
Well, those are my two cents worth.
Take care and as we say in Italian--"In buca il lupo a tutti!" or "Good Luck to all!"

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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jmlevi Gold Member Nikonian since 06th Feb 2012Mon 13-Feb-12 07:16 PM
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#100. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0


Northridge, US
          

Apologies to all, my typing is not very good. I meant "In bocca il lupo, a tutti" not "in buca il lupo" Mamma mia!

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RAJMiller Gold Member Nikonian since 05th Jun 2006Mon 13-Feb-12 07:42 PM
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#102. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 100


Boddelwyddan, GB
          

It seems that everyone has ignored my earlier post.
Basically it does not matter what body you use - from Nikkormat FTN (my very first Nikon) to D4 or D800 The results will only be as good as the glass in front of the body. I still think the D800 is going to find a lot of lenses wanting!! and the first thing people will blame is the new body......
Andy M.

"I take photos of what I like, If
someone else likes it - that's a bonus!"
Andy M

Nikon D800 etc More than enough.
My Gallery http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/useralbums.php

  

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MS Photog Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Nov 2011Mon 13-Feb-12 08:59 PM
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#103. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 102


Carthage, US
          

IMHO: I think Nikon has aimed the D4 as a replacement for the D3s and the D800 as a replacement for the D700. I would guess that we may soon (within a year?) see the D4x with the 36.3mp sensor. This would be aimed at replacing the D3x. Afterall, look at their history.

Marlin

  

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Gromit44 Registered since 04th Jan 2012Wed 15-Feb-12 05:28 PM
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#112. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 103


GB
          

>IMHO: I think Nikon has aimed the D4 as a replacement for the
>D3s and the D800 as a replacement for the D700. I would guess
>that we may soon (within a year?) see the D4x with the 36.3mp
>sensor. This would be aimed at replacing the D3x. Afterall,
>look at their history.
>
>Marlin


I think I'm correct in saying that the time from D3 announcement to D4 announcement was 4 years and 5 months (Aug 2007 to Jan 2012). If the same schedule applies to the D3x the announcement date for a D4x would be May 2013.

  

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MS Photog Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Nov 2011Wed 15-Feb-12 08:17 PM
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#116. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 112


Carthage, US
          

>I think I'm correct in saying that the time from D3
>announcement to D4 announcement was 4 years and 5 months (Aug
>2007 to Jan 2012). If the same schedule applies to the D3x the
>announcement date for a D4x would be May 2013.
>
How long was the interval between the D3s and the D3x? Maybe that would be more of an indication for the interval between the D4 and the D4x. Not trying to start a rumor here just being somewhat whimsical.

Marlin

  

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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 15-Feb-12 09:08 PM
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#117. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 116


Paignton, GB
          

The D3 was announced in August 2007, the D3X in December 2008 and the D3s (as an update to the D3) in October 2009.

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Tue 14-Feb-12 02:53 AM
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#105. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 102
Tue 14-Feb-12 02:54 AM by nrothschild

US
          

>It seems that everyone has ignored my earlier post.
>Basically it does not matter what body you use - from
>Nikkormat FTN (my very first Nikon) to D4 or D800 The results
>will only be as good as the glass in front of the body. I
>still think the D800 is going to find a lot of lenses
>wanting!! and the first thing people will blame is the new
>body......
>Andy M.

The D800 will not stress lenses any more than the D7000 since the pixel resolution per area of sensor is the same. At least in the centers. It will stress corner resolution and people that pixel peep the corners may not be terribly happy. But corners on FX lenses have always been issues for those that want to look for the problem. The centers should not be a problem, at least for those happy with D7000 lens performance.

I do agree with many here that in order to fully utilize the resolution of this camera a tripod will probably be needed. Doesn't mean it won't take fine pictures hand held. Just means a lesser res sensor could do the same job. From that point of view I question if those that buy this camera and always or usually shoot it hand held will get the resolution (in the final output) they paid dearly for. At the expense of some low light performance too (edit: and frame rate).

I also doubt that many D7000 images shot hand held fully utilize the resolution of that camera. I suspect it has a big element of placebo effect. The D800 will be far tougher.

Personally I'm not sure I'm excited about this camera. If the high ISO performance is decent it will offer interesting flexibility as a wildlife camera, in that FX will provide some "zoom" for long prime shooters.

Most birders shooting the body will probably shoot in DX crop mode most of the time- and crop down a bunch more from there. For most other things I do with the D700 12 mpx is plenty. I think it's sad that the D700 lineage is likely going extinct.

As I said in some previous threads, after Canon abdicated the megapixel race, this is surprising, even shocking news. I used to think Canon lead that charge, but no longer. Now we have to blame Nikon for perpetuating it .

It does not bode well for low light shooters. It was said earlier in the thread that if one wants the ultimate in low light shooting "get a D4". That assumes price is no object and that is not a valid assumption for many, if not most of us, especially those primarily in the amateur world.

_________________________________
Neil


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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Wed 15-Feb-12 06:52 PM
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#114. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 105
Wed 15-Feb-12 07:24 PM by JohnE Nikon

New HArtford, US
          

>
>The D800 will not stress lenses any more than the D7000 since
>the pixel resolution per area of sensor is the same. At least
>in the centers. It will stress corner resolution and people
>that pixel peep the corners may not be terribly happy. But
>corners on FX lenses have always been issues for those that
>want to look for the problem. The centers should not be a
>problem, at least for those happy with D7000 lens
>performance.

I agree completely.
>
>I do agree with many here that in order to fully
>utilize
the resolution of this camera a tripod will
>probably be needed. Doesn't mean it won't take fine pictures
>hand held. Just means a lesser res sensor could do the same
>job. From that point of view I question if those that buy
>this camera and always or usually shoot it hand held will get
>the resolution (in the final output) they paid dearly for. At
>the expense of some low light performance too (edit: and frame
>rate).

Not sure I completely agree. I think you need to pay closer attention to hand holding technique and the 1/focal length rule (1.5 for DX) for speed will be tested.
With a non VR lens I find I often maximize my sharpness with handheld technique and 1/ (2 x focal length)


>
>I also doubt that many D7000 images shot hand held fully
>utilize the resolution of that camera. I suspect it has a big
>element of placebo effect. The D800 will be far tougher.
>
>Personally I'm not sure I'm excited about this camera. If the
>high ISO performance is decent it will offer interesting
>flexibility as a wildlife camera, in that FX will provide some
>"zoom" for long prime shooters.
>

I would rather have high iso performance as well but clearly some shooter want pixels.

Below is an example of what I get handheld with a 50 1.4 lens shot at 7.1 1/200 sec. This was shot with a D7000 which has similar pixel pitch to the D800. This is an old Af not AFS lens that I bought used here on Nikonians. The eye is a 1:1 crop and I would argue the detail is there although on a tripod maybe it would be better. Do you agree or should I be expecting even more?


A 1:1 crop with the D800 should give similar if not better results. The image will be much larger though and most would never need to use a 1:1 image.











JohnE Nikon
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"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Wed 15-Feb-12 09:19 PM
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#118. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 114


US
          

Hi John,

I said "Doesn't mean it won't take fine pictures
>hand held.". And I couched that by implying that results will vary from user to user and tried to make a generalization or prediction about "typical users".

You have a fine image there but I would argue that in order to answer the question you would have to shoot the same scene with higher and lower density sensors, on a tripod, to divine the differences. Or in other words just because you have a very sharp image with a lot of detail does not in itself mean you could not have got the same amount of detail from a lower density sensor. I saw this when carefully comparing images from my D2h and D300. I found that I needed an extraordinarily sharp image to actually get more "information" from the D300 image.

Have you ever shot a test chart at a distance calibrated for line pairs down to about 100 LPPM, hand held and compared to results from a tripod? I would argue that unless that shot can be *reliably* made hand held and compared exactly to the results of the same shot on a tripod that a lot of those pixels are wasted according to the reasons a lot of people want uber high megapixel sensors.

These are all just opinions, especially since there is some generalization necessary here

Speaking for myself, I would never try to test a lens against a res chart for sharpness by hand holding it at 1/(2*FL). The results would, at best, be too inconsistent to come to any serious conclusions based on a large number of test shots.

There are some reasons to want a high megapixel camera other than brute sharpness, of course. But what I said was more targeted at those who simply are looking for more resolution.

_________________________________
Neil


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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Wed 15-Feb-12 10:04 PM
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#120. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 118
Wed 15-Feb-12 10:10 PM by JohnE Nikon

New HArtford, US
          

>Hi John,
>
>I said "Doesn't mean it won't take fine pictures
>>hand held.". And I couched that by implying that
>results will vary from user to user and tried to make a
>generalization or prediction about "typical users".
>
>You have a fine image there but I would argue that in order to
>answer the question you would have to shoot the same scene
>with higher and lower density sensors, on a tripod, to divine
>the differences. Or in other words just because you have a
>very sharp image with a lot of detail does not in itself mean
>you could not have got the same amount of detail from a lower
>density sensor. I saw this when carefully comparing images
>from my D2h and D300. I found that I needed an
>extraordinarily sharp image to actually get more
>"information" from the D300 image.
>
>Have you ever shot a test chart at a distance calibrated for
>line pairs down to about 100 LPPM, hand held and compared to
>results from a tripod? I would argue that unless that shot
>can be *reliably* made hand held and compared exactly to the
>results of the same shot on a tripod that a lot of those
>pixels are wasted according to the reasons a lot of people
>want uber high megapixel sensors.
>
>These are all just opinions, especially since there is some
>generalization necessary here
>
>Speaking for myself, I would never try to test a lens against
>a res chart for sharpness by hand holding it at 1/(2*FL). The
>results would, at best, be too inconsistent to come to any
>serious conclusions based on a large number of test shots.
>
>There are some reasons to want a high megapixel camera other
>than brute sharpness, of course. But what I said was more
>targeted at those who simply are looking for more resolution.

Neil,
I agree with everything you say above.

I have shot test charts callibrated for distance with line pairs. I would never consider shooting handheld.

BTW All of my hand held shots are not this sharp. I think I wanted to demonstrate that you can get good detail at 1:1 handheld. This means you are taking advantage of the extra pixels if you choose to do so. In my case I have printed up to 20x30 inches. I believe if I would have printed this big with an 8MP jpeg, I would not have gotten the same results on my print. If you are printing bigger than 20x30 the D800 would be attractive. I did admit it may have been sharper if I used a tripod.

For my purposes I dont think getting a 36 MP camera will help my images. I already have a camera which outperforms my ability. I have seen images taken with this camera that are far superior to mine.(For that matter I have seen images shot with a D40 or even a cell phone which I like better, albeit maybe not as sharp) The low light capabilities and dynamic range of the D4 are way more enticing to me than the 36MP of the D800.

JohnE Nikon
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"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Wed 15-Feb-12 10:44 PM
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#121. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 120


US
          

Hi John,

>> BTW All of my hand held shots are not this sharp...

>> I think I wanted to demonstrate that you can get good detail at 1:1 handheld...

Although maybe I could have been clearer on this point, I was trying hard to discuss this in the context of the average shooter banging out consistently sharp shots to the limits of the resolution of that camera, verses occasional miracle shots or even regularly getting a few miracle shots .

>> For my purposes I dont think getting a 36 MP camera will help my images.

I would agree. There is nothing in your image that is lacking from resolution and detail .

>> The low light capabilities and dynamic range of the D4 are way more enticing to me than the 36MP of the D800.

Same here. Although I suspect the D800 will be better than many might be thinking at this point. I'm keeping a very open mind on that point. And there are some very beneficial effects to be had from downsizing and when you have 2.5 to 3x more pixels to downsize you can squash a lot of noise out without resorting to noise reduction. And mathematically it can be argued that, given the same basic technology, no matter how fine you slice up the sensor the end results are identical regardless of resolution as long as you compare images at the resolution of the lowest res sensor.

_________________________________
Neil


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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Wed 15-Feb-12 09:37 PM
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#119. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 114


US
          

P.S. just for clarity.

From the perspective of lens resolution in the centers, only pixel density matters so there a D7000 is comparable to the D800. Corners are a different matter of course, as mentioned.

Resolution from the perspective of camera or subject motion is an entirely different issue. In this case you have to maintain equal composition for an accurate comparison. Each pixel then subtends a smaller angle (1.5x smaller). You can't directly compare it without doing it with a D800 (or some other mythical 36mpx FX sensor).

While your image is very good, it would be much tougher to get comparable 100% pixel results from a D800, assuming equal framing.

_________________________________
Neil


my Nikonians gallery.

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Wed 15-Feb-12 11:01 PM
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#122. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 119


New HArtford, US
          

>P.S. just for clarity.
>
>From the perspective of lens resolution in the centers, only
>pixel density matters so there a D7000 is comparable to the
>D800. Corners are a different matter of course, as
>mentioned.
>
>Resolution from the perspective of camera or subject motion is
>an entirely different issue. In this case you have to
>maintain equal composition for an accurate comparison. Each
>pixel then subtends a smaller angle (1.5x smaller). You can't
>directly compare it without doing it with a D800 (or some
>other mythical 36mpx FX sensor).
>
>While your image is very good, it would be much tougher to get
>comparable 100% pixel results from a D800, assuming equal
>framing.

From the center I'm not sure why it would be tougher to get a comparable 100% pixel result with the d800. If I shot this image with the D800 exactly the same way, the subject would be smaller but 100% pixel resolution of the subject should be similar. Maybe I misunderstand. This may be what you are talking about when you say maintain the same compostion. If I moved closer to get the same compostion then yes it would be different. I would then have a much larger view of the sunjects eye at 100% pixel viewing and other things such as depth of field differences may come into play. I think subject motion would be more noticeabele as well, because then I would be placing more pixels on the same unit area of subject.
I guess this is what you mean, and is very valid because as a photographer you are composing for the subject not for the sensor.

The way I was thinking of it was my DX camera is like using the central part of a D800 with a similar pixel density. I am only using the center best part of my FX lenses so I miss all the problems at the edges you mention.
Sorry I had to work out your reply for everyyone.

JohnE Nikon
https://plus.google.com/photos/104310967428146619677/albums?hl=en

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"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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nrothschild Silver Member Neil is an expert in several areas, including camera support Nikonian since 25th Jul 2004Thu 16-Feb-12 02:23 AM
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#127. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 122


US
          

> Maybe I misunderstand. This may be what you are
>talking about when you say maintain the same compostion. If I
>moved closer to get the same compostion then yes it would be
>different. I would then have a much larger view of the
>sunjects eye at 100% pixel viewing and other things such as
>depth of field differences may come into play. I think subject
>motion would be more noticeabele as well, because then I would
>be placing more pixels on the same unit area of subject.

Depth of field will be different (shallower) on FX but you don't need a 36 mpx D800 to get that different DOF. You could do that with a 12 mpx D700. And you should be able to buy those very cheaply very soon .

The whole point of buying a D800 is to get 36 mpx so you can make the eye bigger (relative to 100% pixels) while maintaining the same scene composition. If all you wanted was a bigger eye you could use your D7000 and just move closer or use a longer lens.

What you said about subject motion is the same for camera shake. If your image above has less than one pixel of blur then you will have to do the same with the D800 in order to fully take advantage of its resolution, which means 50% less camera shake to get the same relative pixel level results. If you do not achieve that precision then you may still get a great image but you didn't need a D800 to get about the same true resolution.

>The way I was thinking of it was my DX camera is like using
>the central part of a D800 with a similar pixel density. I am
>only using the center best part of my FX lenses so I miss all
>the problems at the edges you mention.
>Sorry I had to work out your reply for everyyone.

Yes, the sensor density is the same so you gain nothing by using a D800 UNLESS you want it all - a bigger AND better resolved eye and the same surrounding scene. If you want all that, you have to shoot a bit steadier for the same relative sharpness (and you now have to deal with any corner issues you might have, which is a separate issue).

And just to be very clear, this is not a sensor format issue. If a 36 mpx DX sensor were available, the camera shake and subject motion issue would be identical. There might be other issues, such as diffraction, related to such a dense DX sensor but that is beside the point. The point being that the increased camera shake sensitivity with the D800 has everything to do with the same scene divided into more pixels, and nothing to do with FX vs DX.

_________________________________
Neil


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neversink Registered since 30th Nov 2009Wed 15-Feb-12 06:10 AM
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#110. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 102


US
          

RAJ - i politely disagree. I have seen horrid pics with the best of glass and amazing pics with so-so glass and no glass (pin-hole cameras.)
I agree with the first part of your statement, and forgive me if I rephrase your statement.

Basically, it does not matter what body you use - from and Exacta vxiia (with Zeiss lenses - my first camera) to a cardboard pinhole to a Nikon D800 to a 8X10 view camera to an iPhone camera. The results will be only as good as your ability to compose and capture in light what you visualize when you expose the film or click the shutter.

My best....

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Wed 15-Feb-12 06:17 PM
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#113. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 110


Canton, US
          

Actually, you are both right !

Having better glass (or higher resolution) will certainly increase the potential for higher quality images from a technical perspective, there is no doubt about that whatsoever.

However, rarely does a photograph succeed or fail based on sharpness alone. If I were to rank image characteristics in order of importance, it would be:

1. Subject matter
2. Composition
3. Lighting quality
4. Exposure/contrast
5. Sharpness/resolution

If you hit all five right, you'll have an outstanding image. But subject and composition will always trump the difference between acceptable sharpness and an image that is truly tack-sharp.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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JohnE Nikon Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Jun 2010Wed 15-Feb-12 07:33 PM
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#115. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 113


New HArtford, US
          

>Actually, you are both right !
>
>Having better glass (or higher resolution) will certainly
>increase the potential for higher quality images from a
>technical perspective, there is no doubt about that
>whatsoever.
>
>However, rarely does a photograph succeed or fail based on
>sharpness alone. If I were to rank image characteristics in
>order of importance, it would be:
>
>1. Subject matter
>2. Composition
>3. Lighting quality
>4. Exposure/contrast
>5. Sharpness/resolution
>
>If you hit all five right, you'll have an outstanding image.
>But subject and composition will always trump the difference
>between acceptable sharpness and an image that is truly
>tack-sharp.

I don't disagree but we don't upgrade or consider upgrading our camera's based on the 3 most important things on your list, so when considering upgrading a camera we mainly think of things like sharpness, high iso, frame rate etc that the new camera has to offer.

BTW I just read that sigma has a camera that has 46 MP on an AFC sensor, the SD-1 Merrill. I am not considering buying this camera so did not read anything about it. It has a Foveon sensor. which uses 3 pixels for the 3 primary colors. It seems like they pack a lot of pixels into a small sensor. I wonder if hand held camera shake is a problem with this camera.

JohnE Nikon
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"Cameras and lenses are simply tools to place our unique vision on film. Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colors and your images will stir the soul." Jack Dykinga

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Wed 15-Feb-12 11:39 PM
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#125. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 110
Thu 16-Feb-12 12:04 AM by agitater

Toronto, CA
          

>RAJ - i politely disagree. I have seen horrid pics with the
>best of glass and amazing pics with so-so glass and no glass
>(pin-hole cameras.)
>I agree with the first part of your statement, and forgive me
>if I rephrase your statement.
>
>Basically, it does not matter what body you use - from and
>Exacta vxiia (with Zeiss lenses - my first camera) to a
>cardboard pinhole to a Nikon D800 to a 8X10 view camera to an
>iPhone camera. The results will be only as good as your
>ability to compose and capture in light what you visualize
>when you expose the film or click the shutter.

You're preaching to the converted here, and I think you've gone to extremes. Of course technical image quality is not the be-all or end-all of good or great photography. But a remarkable body paired with a lens that can do it justice certainly helps move things along in the creativity department. A great camera body that offers wide dynamic range is infinitely more versatile and offers consequently more creative possibilities in the right hands that an iPhone camera. There's no doubt that photographers can be creative with an iPhone camera too, but anyone who maintains that an iPhone camera is as creatively versatile as a D700 with a Nikkor 24-120 f/4 VRII zoom is just fooling himself.

There is a myth out there that any good photographer can pick up any camera device and make interesting photos with it. That's nonsense. What good photographers can do with any camera device, rather, is to increase the chances that a capture using some cheaper or technically limited camera device will be interesting. When sharpness and shallow depth of field is needed to express a viewpoint, lack of sharpness and too much depth of field just won't do. The other thing that good photographers understand is that they must always consider the technical limitations of whatever camera device they're using in order not to force the device into trying to capture a subject which clearly exceeds it limitations. Contrary to taking the equipment out of the equation then, good photographers do just the opposite by considering the capabilities of the equipment very carefully indeed and working within those limitations. But that still doesn't make an iPhone or cheap P&S camera device the creative equivalent of D700 with a Nikkor 24-120 f/4 VRII zoom.

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mjhach Silver Member Nikonian since 17th Dec 2010Thu 16-Feb-12 12:52 AM
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#126. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 125


Simcoe, CA
          

I'm not going to mention names so as not to discredit them, but there are excellent lens and camera reviewers out there with the technical knowledge to make intelligent reading for those that can understand it. THey say such things like you don't need high tech equipment to make award winning photos, so you don't need to go out to get a D7000 when you already have a D40 or D70, in one breath, and then they go on to review this and that excellent lens or body, really making the naive think a lot before they go out and get better equipment. It can be quite confusing for those that don't have the ability to satisfy NAS. I read that it seems like many Nikonians have already preordered the D800 when they already have a very capable D700 or the Dx's or Dxs's. Really, what's the point in satisfying the NAS when you already have a very superior camera?? I just don't get it. In the end, I agree with you in that you need a certain level of equipment in order to take difficult environments (light, subject movement etc.) and make a great photo out of it which you are wonting to do with an iphone.

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neversink Registered since 30th Nov 2009Thu 16-Feb-12 06:54 AM
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#128. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 125


US
          

This statement I agree with:

> Of course technical image quality is not the
>be-all or end-all of good or great photography. But a
>remarkable body paired with a lens that can do it justice
>certainly helps move things along in the creativity
>department.

The first part of the following is only partially true:

>A great camera body that offers wide dynamic range
>is infinitely more versatile and offers consequently more
>creative possibilities in the right hands that an iPhone
>camera.

I agree about the versatility... But a pinhole camera or an iPhone can have as infinite amount of creative possibilities in the right hands -- as infinite as a D800 or a Phase One or a view camera... It is all in the eye. Having taught photography I can assure you that my students have created muddy pictures from the most expensive equipment to the cheapest. I have also seen masterpieces from pinhole cameras as well as all other cameras. By the way, you can take a pinhole camera and set it up in any location. You won't be able to freeze action, but you will get some incredible images. It's just a different tool. I love my iPhone camera on the 4S.... I even recently included some images in a commercial shoot, just for the hell of it. Guess what? The client used several of the iPhone photos for the project. Go figure!!!! Of course, i manipulated the image in post processing software, but I would do that with any digital image. (Also, one photo that was chosen for the cover of this publication was taken with a Canon S90 P&S.

So that is why your next statement is false, unless my client, who pays me very well is a fool.
(Just because one image can be enlarged more than another image, does not lessen the value of the image that can't be enlarged. I remember similar discussions with film cameras. I maintained in those days that there is no proof a Leica or Nikon takes better or worse pics than a Hassy or Mamiiya or Arca-Swiss or cardboard box with a pinhole. They are just different tools used in the creative process.

>There's no doubt that photographers can be creative
>with an iPhone camera too, but anyone who maintains that an
>iPhone camera is as creatively versatile as a D700 with a
>Nikkor 24-120 f/4 VRII zoom is just fooling himself.
>

I groan when I read the above and I can see Ansel Adams and Brett Weston and Eugene Smith and Imogene Cunningham and Lisette Model and Manuel Alvarez Bravo all laughing in their grave when they read the above.

Now, the following is completely false: A good photographer should be able to make an outstanding image with any tool. a good photographer would know not to take a pinhole camera or a view camera to a baseball game, (although I think I wouldn't put it past some people and I wouldn't pre-judge anyone for doing so.

>There is a myth out there that any good photographer can pick
>up any camera device and make interesting photos with it.
>That's nonsense.

No, not nonsense at all, but a good photographer can do exactly that.

But the following statement I agree with....

> The other thing
>that good photographers understand is that they must always
>consider the technical limitations of whatever camera device
>they're using in order not to force the device into trying to
>capture a subject which clearly exceeds it limitations.
>Contrary to taking the equipment out of the equation then,
>good photographers do just the opposite by considering the
>capabilities of the equipment very carefully indeed and
>working within those limitations.

But then you blow your reasoning with the following sentence...

>But that still doesn't make
>an iPhone or cheap P&S camera device the creative
>equivalent of D700 with a Nikkor 24-120 f/4 VRII zoom.
>

The above is false because creativity doesn't come from any tool, it comes form the ability to see and understand the tool you choose to use. My 14-24mm zoom on a Nikon D3s won't take any better pics by itself than a pinhole camera will or a Phase One. It's the person behind the camera that will do all the creating. The camera doesn't create the light or wait for the perfect natural light. The camera does not compose by itself. The camera doesn't pre-visualize the image. Only the photographer does these things. Only the photographer knows how to make adjustments to the light readings of a hand-held meter or to the reading of a sophisticated in-camera light meter. Only the photographer knows at which angle to place the camera. The camera may read the light and suggest a certain aperture and shutter speed. it is the photographer that decides to accept those readings or change them to fit his/her creative thinking. And a good photographer can be creative in a nano-second with one image, and might take much longer with another image. Only the photographer knows which camera to use. Only a good photographer knows how to take a great pic with supposedly sub-standard equipment if that is all that is available.

Only the photographer, not the camera, knows when to press the shutter and how to process and print the image.

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Thu 16-Feb-12 09:45 AM
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#130. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 128


Canton, US
          

>The above is false because creativity doesn't come from any
>tool, it comes form the ability to see and understand the tool
>you choose to use. My 14-24mm zoom on a Nikon D3s won't take
>any better pics by itself than a pinhole camera will or a
>Phase One. It's the person behind the camera that will do all
>the creating. The camera doesn't create the light or wait for
>the perfect natural light. The camera does not compose by
>itself. The camera doesn't pre-visualize the image. Only the
>photographer does these things. Only the photographer knows
>how to make adjustments to the light readings of a hand-held
>meter or to the reading of a sophisticated in-camera light
>meter. Only the photographer knows at which angle to place the
>camera. The camera may read the light and suggest a certain
>aperture and shutter speed. it is the photographer that
>decides to accept those readings or change them to fit his/her
>creative thinking. And a good photographer can be creative in
>a nano-second with one image, and might take much longer with
>another image. Only the photographer knows which camera to
>use. Only a good photographer knows how to take a great pic
>with supposedly sub-standard equipment if that is all that is
>available.
>
>Only the photographer, not the camera, knows when to press the
>shutter and how to process and print the image.
>

Respectfully, I think you are stating the obvious while missing the point. Of course it is the photographer who provides the creativity behind any image, not the camera. The overall point is that the capability of the tools defines where that creativity can take him or her in more diverse situations. With a good camera, lens and software you can easily duplicate the creativity of what you might achieve with an iPhone or pinhole camera; but not visa versa. Ansel would indeed be laughing from his grave if someone told him that he could have achieved the same impact of his more memorable images had he used a Kodak Instamatic instead of a large format view camera or a Hasselblad.

That being said, and to be more on-topic, I personally think that the rush to dump perfectly good D700's or D3-whatever's for the D800 is a bit premature, as the difference in image quality and creative potential between all of those cameras is truly incremental. Those with D700's should honestly look at the images they have made with that camera and ask themselves if the D800 would have made them any better. I suspect the answer would be a resounding "no" 99% of the time.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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neversink Registered since 30th Nov 2009Thu 16-Feb-12 11:26 AM
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#131. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 130


US
          


>Respectfully, I think you are stating the obvious while
>missing the point.

Steve,
What I think is so incredible about photography is that you can take a photograph of the obvious and transform it into something totally unique and even unrecognizable. For me, that is the magic of photography.

As far as suggesting people don't dump their D700 in favor of the D800, I would also suggest waiting unless you really need a new body. However the samples that I have seen on the Nikon web page are enough to make a believer out of me.

That being said, I have already ordered the new D4 and am selling my D3s with unfortunately, six figures of clicks..... and I will also be replacing my D700 with the D800 and D800E for the same reason. But to tell you the truth, I am worried about moire on the D800E. Software can't reverse or remove the moire effect, but it can repair it to approximate what the software renders the scene to be without moire.

But otherwise, unless you are going to print 40 x 60 inch glossies, there is no pressing need for acquiring the D800 unless you need the occasional cropping power. (But one can still decently crop on the D700 and get an incredible image, just not be able to blow it up as big.)
I am curious about the dynamic range of the D800, and as I have stated, I am blown away with Nikon's image samples of both these cameras.

Anyone in the market for heavily used, but well cared D3s and D700. I was going to give them to my 12-year old twin daughters, but they don't share my love for photography. (They would rather have some P&S as long as it is pink and shiny blue!!!!!!!!

Funny, I have never sold any of my film cameras, but yet I have no sentimental value for the digital bodies. Sometimes I even pick up the old Leica iiif and take it to the streets. I miss Panatomic X though, so I usually throw T-Max 100 or Tri-X in the box. I don't use my old Exact vxiia anymore, except to take it out of the display case. That was truly the first real SLR and a beauty. to look at and to hold. It stays in the display case now, next to my old Nikon Ftn, F2s and F3s Those were some beautiful cameras.... as were some of the incredibly heavy MotorDrives that one needed to cover sports and riots.

David (neversink)





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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Thu 16-Feb-12 11:46 AM
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#132. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 131


Paignton, GB
          

>But to tell you the truth, I am worried about moire on the D800E.
>Software can't reverse or remove the moire effect...

Until we see some examples from a production D800 processed with Capture NX2.3, we can't know how well its new moire removal feature will work. It may surprise us

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Thu 16-Feb-12 12:41 PM
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#133. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 132


Canton, US
          

The biggest problem with that, of course, is that users would be required to use Capture NX to process their images, which would be a deal-breaker for many of us who use other software. I wonder just how proprietary that moire-removal algorithm will be, or is it something that Adobe can incorporate into Lightroom and Photoshop?

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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blubdog Silver Member Nikonian since 29th Sep 2008Thu 16-Feb-12 01:06 PM
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#136. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 133


Hurricane, US
          

>The biggest problem with that, of course, is that users would
>be required to use Capture NX to process their images, which
>would be a deal-breaker for many of us who use other software.
> I wonder just how proprietary that moire-removal algorithm
>will be, or is it something that Adobe can incorporate into
>Lightroom and Photoshop?

As a Lightroom user, I was wondering the exact same thing. I suppose I could do moire removal in CNX2, and save as a tiff for import into Lightroom, but I certainly don't want to do that for every image I shoot. So that brings up the question about what percent of images will need moire removal? (which I'm sure varies from person to person, depending on what type of images are shot)

That is one of the reasons I'm not going to pre-order a D800 or D800E. Even though I'm very intrigued by these cameras, I'm going to hold off until I find out the answers to many of the questions and concerns brought up here.

A lot of what is being said here is just speculation so far (image quality, lens performance, handholding, moire removal, D800 vs. D800E image comparisons, etc.)

We're not to find the real answers until the cameras are readily shipping and people have had time with them. AND other software companies have had a chance to make their updates.

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 16-Feb-12 01:09 PM
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#137. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 133


Colorado Springs, US
          

The soon-to-be-released Lightroom 4 and ACR 7 also include moire removal tools. I've used them on images from a camera with no AA filter that had some moire (it was actually hard for me to find images with this problem) and the tool worked very well. It's a local area tool rather than a global one, which is something I like. Capture One has had a moire removal tool for a while, and it also works well. For extreme cases that I've never encountered in my own shooting, those tools, as well as NX2, might not be enough. For the moire I've experienced, they are.

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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smb_ohio Registered since 18th Mar 2006Thu 16-Feb-12 12:53 PM
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#135. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 131


Canton, US
          

>What I think is so incredible about photography is that you
>can take a photograph of the obvious and transform it into
>something totally unique and even unrecognizable. For me,
>that is the magic of photography.

Absolutely! The point, though, is the more capable and flexible your equipment, the better you are able to either capture or re-create that image to fit your vision.


>As far as suggesting people don't dump their D700 in favor of
>the D800, I would also suggest waiting unless you really need
>a new body. However the samples that I have seen on the Nikon
>web page are enough to make a believer out of me.

I've seen those same samples, and while they are quite detailed, I don't see them as any more impressive than what the D3x can already produce. They are more detailed than those from the D700, of course, but as you say, unless you are in the habit of making really big prints that difference is not going to be as obvious as the number of pixels makes it sound. Many of the D700 sample images on the same website are also incredibly detailed and crisp.

Steve

A Nikonian in northeastern Ohio

http://stephen-bishop.com

  

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rectangularimage Silver Member Nikonian since 01st Oct 2009Wed 15-Feb-12 05:10 PM
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#111. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 102
Wed 15-Feb-12 05:14 PM by rectangularimage

San Diego, US
          

>It seems that everyone has ignored my earlier post.
>Basically it does not matter what body you use - from
>Nikkormat FTN (my very first Nikon) to D4 or D800 The results
>will only be as good as the glass in front of the body. I
>still think the D800 is going to find a lot of lenses
>wanting!! and the first thing people will blame is the new
>body......

Some are claiming most lenses are good enough to make use of a 36 meg sensor:

A 36-megapixel sensor will resolve around 75 lp/mm. Even mediocre 35mm lenses will hit 75 lp/mm at some aperture over some portion of their field of view. This is true of both fixed focal length and zoom lenses.

Of course many people will want new glass to go with their new camera, and try and maximize the resolution of their system.

...Mike

My website | My Nikonians gallery

  

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agitater Gold Member Nikonian since 18th Jan 2007Wed 15-Feb-12 11:28 PM
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#124. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 111
Thu 16-Feb-12 12:59 PM by agitater

Toronto, CA
          

>Some are claiming
>most lenses are good enough to make use of a 36 meg sensor:
>A 36-megapixel sensor will resolve
>around 75 lp/mm. Even mediocre 35mm lenses will hit 75 lp/mm
>at some aperture over some portion of their field of view.
>This is true of both fixed focal length and zoom
>lenses.

>
>Of course many people will want new glass to go with
>their new camera, and try and maximize the resolution of their
>system.

Right - because a lens that is merely good enough is, well, not really good enough. That a lens can hit 75 lp/mm "at some aperture over some portion of their field of view" as has been reported elsewhere is just not good enough at all.

I'd advise people not to buy the camera if their current glass collection is mediocre simply because they'll end up with a whole lot of camera but no way to squeeze the best technical image quality out of it.

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Howard Carson

  

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walkerr Administrator Awarded for his con tributed articles published at the Resources Awarded for his in-depth knowledge in multiple areas Nikonian since 05th May 2002Thu 16-Feb-12 01:53 PM
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#141. "RE: It's official-- Nikon has announced the D800 & D800E "
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 16-Feb-12 01:54 PM by walkerr

Colorado Springs, US
          

There's been a lot of great discussion in this thread, but it's past the point where it's easy to navigate due to the large number of posts. Let's please continue the discussion in new or existing threads in the forum for the D800/D800e. Thanks!

Rick Walker

My photos:
GeoVista Photography

  

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