nikonians

Even though we ARE Nikon lovers,we are NOT affiliated with Nikon Corp. in any way.

| |
Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Print Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR VISION - BY SPECIALTY Micro, Macro & Close-up (Public) topic #52165
View in linear mode

Subject: "focusing" Previous topic | Next topic
pasknucklehead Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Feb 2008Mon 26-Aug-13 06:46 PM
1426 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"focusing"


US
          

Hi everyone, Waterdrop queen here...
I need some advice...I am working on some really cool waterdrops, but I am having a heck of a time with my focus lately...The drops that I am doing now are pretty high, but fairly similar to the ones I always did which didn't give me as much grief as these ones are doing...I will attach my focus aid photo which is what I sit in the spot where my drop will fall. I will also then attach my drop, which sure doesn't look in focus to me...give me some advice please..I am getting so many neat shots, but am disappointed in myself because I can't use them. I really would appreciate the help. My settings on my d90 using my 105 macro lens are: bulb mode, off camera flash at f16 (aimed at drop) aperature f16-iso 200-my lens is exactly 16" from the front of the lens glass to where the drop will hit. The room is fairly dim. Please let me know what you all think my problem is. What makes me puzzled is you can see from the shot of my focus aid, the words are clearly in focus..The drop rolls down right on the words...Thanks friends.





Darlene

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: focusing
pasknucklehead Silver Member
27th Aug 2013
1
Reply message RE: focusing
mfphoto1
27th Aug 2013
2
Reply message RE: focusing
Stagecoach Silver Member
28th Aug 2013
3
     Reply message RE: focusing
aolander Silver Member
28th Aug 2013
4
          Reply message RE: focusing
Stagecoach Silver Member
28th Aug 2013
5
               Reply message RE: focusing
pasknucklehead Silver Member
30th Aug 2013
6
               Reply message RE: focusing
Stagecoach Silver Member
30th Aug 2013
7
               Reply message RE: focusing
Bug Gold Member
31st Aug 2013
8
                    Reply message RE: focusing
Stagecoach Silver Member
31st Aug 2013
9
                         Reply message RE: focusing
pasknucklehead Silver Member
02nd Sep 2013
10

pasknucklehead Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Feb 2008Tue 27-Aug-13 04:11 AM
1426 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 0


US
          

Hey, nevermind my friends,, I think I figured it out...I was just too close,,it took me two days to realize that...but I'm back in business. This shot is straight from the camera so just think what it will look like when I lighten it and sharpen it just a tad more...Hey, quick question though,,,if I were to up my sharpening in my camera, would this look even better? just wondering...I know I should do these in raw, but I do so many, and it takes forever than to download them and go through them all....tell me what you think.


Darlene

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

    
mfphoto1 Registered since 29th Oct 2005Tue 27-Aug-13 09:32 PM
733 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#2. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 1
Tue 27-Aug-13 09:32 PM by mfphoto1

Cincinnati, US
          

Hi Darlene, I can already tell these are going to be amazing like your other drop shots. I can't wait to see the final results.

I can not speak on in camera sharpening other than the fact that you have no control over what it does and once it's there it's there forever.

Have you considered creating an action for sharpening? You would be able to run a batch process on your images and you would still be able to go back and adjust individual images as needed.

"Step into my world and see as I see"

My Nikonians Gallery

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

    
Stagecoach Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Apr 2009Wed 28-Aug-13 09:12 AM
132 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 1
Wed 28-Aug-13 09:14 AM by Stagecoach

Suva, FJ
          

Hi Darlene,

I have done a few basic water drops with a couple of excellent results but understand your concerns with the number you have to take.

Firstly, sharpening. I assume you are shooting in Jpeg PLUS RAW so I would up the in camera sharpening for the Jpegs to help you when assessing the Jpegs and when you get that 'brilliant' one you can then do any work on the Raw file if not happy with the jpeg.

Secondly, although you may have solved it. If you move back the DOF is going to increase and you will need to crop to get the same image frame. There is going to be a loss of IQ with this which will also depend upon pixel size to start with but it's a case of balancing one against the other.

There is another option to help DOF and give a better chance of getting the drop in focus and that's to push to f22 or even above. I recently undertook some controlled tests at very close 1:1 ratio real world macro to determine the loss in IQ due to smaller apertures due to diffraction. The consensus was that if you are only producing web sized images (say 1200 pixel width) loss in IQ was not a concern.

As for that shot, superb.

P.S. If you want to use the jpegs with no post work you will need to get rid of the sensor spots..........

Grahame

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

        
aolander Silver Member Nikonian since 15th Sep 2006Wed 28-Aug-13 01:56 PM
3389 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 3


Nevis, US
          

"If you move back the DOF is going to increase and you will need to crop to get the same image frame."

There is no gain in DOF if you move back but then crop.

Alan

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

            
Stagecoach Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Apr 2009Wed 28-Aug-13 07:14 PM
132 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 4
Wed 28-Aug-13 07:20 PM by Stagecoach

Suva, FJ
          

Alan

Your comment has confused me and I would not like to think that I have given incorrect information to Darlene.

The below is from a test I did recently with results as I would have expected with increased DOF but with the aim of assessing reduced IQ by cropping when using the Nikon 105VR macro.

Object; To take a macro image at settings around what I would often use and to then double the DOF by increasing the camera to subject distance only and then determine the loss of IQ when cropping to achieve the same image size.

The image on the left was taken at 0.45 mtr giving a DOF of 11.8 mm. The image on the right was taken at a distance of 0.61 mtr giving a DOF of 23.4 mm (twice that of the left image). DOF figures from tables and distances are subject to sensor plane. Both images f22 1/60th.

Post processing for each was ACR equal exposure reduction and no sharpening. In Elements capture sharpening on each full image at 40% at 4 pixels, brightness increase of 30% to each. Right hand image cropped to get same frame. Each resized to 550 pixel width with 100% output sharpening to left image and 150% to right image.

Here's the result.


Grahame

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

                
pasknucklehead Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Feb 2008Fri 30-Aug-13 02:08 AM
1426 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 5


US
          

Hey Grahame, thanks for taking the time and showing me the comparisons...You stated that if I were to use jpegs without the post processing, I need to get rid of the sensor spots,,,what is that? Or are you simply talking about all those little waterdrop spots and things that take away from me photo? Yes, I do that when I finish with the final edit...so the bottom line being,,that if I were to increase above f22, I then with physically moving my camera back, and then doing a crop, that would yield an even better image?

Darlene

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

                    
Stagecoach Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Apr 2009Fri 30-Aug-13 04:29 AM
132 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 6
Fri 30-Aug-13 06:12 AM by Stagecoach

Suva, FJ
          

Hi Darlene,

Sensor spots, these are what are often also referred to as dust bunnies and are pieces of dust (or fluff) on your sensor that show up on your images. The most noticeable one is at the top left about a quarter of the way in that you will see is evident in all these images.

They become more noticeable and sharper in the image as your aperture opening decreases. I will not go into methods of sensor cleaning as there are many posts on that here but if you are lucky they can be removed with a simple blower. What I will say is that if you want to get rid of them STUDY the technique first.

Cropping, moving back with your 105 is going to give you greater DOF which in turn gives you two possible advantages, greater DOF and a better chance of getting the exact bit you want in focus.

As for yielding a 'better' image this is subjective and depends upon your aims. I am certainly not suggesting that you require better DOF in your images.

Taking the example I posted above the flower was around 35 mm between the closest and furthest part that I would think is somewhere similar to the water drop splashes.

For that flower shot I would not want a large DOF as in the right image as I do not think it enhances the image. BUT, if it was a bee or wasp I would consider that this extra DOF achieved as shown in the right image is well worth the possible slight loss in IQ I have had due to cropping. Additionally, by going for this greater DOF (by moving back) it has given me a better chance of getting the bugs eye which is moving around with the bug sharply in focus.

Finally, decisions have to also take account of the final use of your image. If they are simply for posting on the web and not printing to a very large size there is scope to push to f22 and well above. I recently undertook another controlled real world test going up to f40 for web use and the results were quite surprising.

Hope this helps............

Grahame

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

                
Bug Gold Member Nikonian since 06th Mar 2007Sat 31-Aug-13 02:33 AM
199 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#8. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 5


Michigan, US
          

Sorry to ask this, but what is "mtr"?

>> The image on the left was taken at 0.45 mtr giving a DOF of
>> 11.8 mm

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

                    
Stagecoach Silver Member Nikonian since 03rd Apr 2009Sat 31-Aug-13 03:20 AM
132 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 8
Sat 31-Aug-13 03:21 AM by Stagecoach

Suva, FJ
          

Hi,

'mtr' short for metre. 0.45 mtr = 450 mm which was subject to sensor plane distance.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

                        
pasknucklehead Silver Member Nikonian since 06th Feb 2008Mon 02-Sep-13 12:43 AM
1426 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: focusing"
In response to Reply # 9


US
          

Hey thanks for that explaination,,,yes, I do need to get this camera and lens cleaned up,,, and I usually do pretty well at that, and then when I do view my photos and are ready to finish editing for print, I just use either the clone tool or the spot healing tool in photoshop and that does a great job for me...This photo was posted straight from the camera and it does have a lot of stray waterdrops and stuff to clean up should I choose to use it,,,probably not though, will keep trying to get a sharper image first...but thanks for the explaination....

Darlene

  

Alert Print | Reply | Quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR VISION - BY SPECIALTY Micro, Macro & Close-up (Public) topic #52165 Previous topic | Next topic