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Subject: "Macro lens working distances" Previous topic | Next topic
Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 01:41 PM
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"Macro lens working distances"


Manchester, GB
          

Looks like one of the "casualties" in the server crash was my post of the macro lens working distances chart, so here it is again, data gleaned from various internet resources and manufacturers' data.

First half of the chart: info for lenses operating at 1:1. Where a diopter, tube, or TC is needed to get to 1:1, this is noted in the comments column.

Middle row: Data for the Nikon 70-180 operating at its max unassisted magnification (1:1.33).

Bottom half: info for lenses operating at 1:2 where this was available to me.

Additional contributions gratefully received - if your favourite macro lens isn't shown here, please send me the relevant data for a future update.

Regards,
Tony

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

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Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances
briantilley Moderator
29th Oct 2005
1
Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances
Tony_Jeffree
29th Oct 2005
2
     Reply message Macro lens working distances - Nikon 105 VR added
Tony_Jeffree
16th Jan 2008
     Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances
hmll
19th Aug 2010
42
          Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances
Tony_Jeffree
19th Aug 2010
43
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legolas
30th Sep 2007
7
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Tony_Jeffree
02nd Oct 2007
8
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Tony_Jeffree
25th Dec 2007
11
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Tony_Jeffree
16th Jan 2008
Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances
smithy
01st Nov 2006
3
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Tony_Jeffree
02nd Nov 2006
4
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smithy
15th Dec 2007
9
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Tony_Jeffree
15th Dec 2007
10
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Tony_Jeffree
16th Jan 2008
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jaba
12th Aug 2007
5
     Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances
Tony_Jeffree
12th Aug 2007
6
Reply message Update Oct 2007: Macro lens working distances
Tony_Jeffree
16th Jan 2008
12
Reply message RE: Update Oct 2007: Macro lens working distances
Tony_Jeffree
16th Jan 2008
13
Reply message Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
Tony_Jeffree
15th Feb 2008
14
Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
NGC2683
28th Feb 2008
15
     Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
Tony_Jeffree
28th Feb 2008
16
          Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
NGC2683
28th Feb 2008
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               Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
Tony_Jeffree
28th Feb 2008
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                    Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
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28th Feb 2008
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                         Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
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28th Feb 2008
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NGC2683
28th Feb 2008
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                                   Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15
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Reply message Macro lens working distances - April 08 update
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23rd Apr 2008
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Reply message Macro lens working distances - May 21 update
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21st May 2008
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22nd Jun 2008
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04th Sep 2008
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19th Oct 2008
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               Reply message RE: Macro lens working distances - May 21 update
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02nd Dec 2008
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Tony_Jeffree
24th Jan 2009
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Reply message March 2009 update: Macro lens working distances
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26th Mar 2009
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Reply message December 2009 update
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16th Dec 2009
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briantilley Moderator
16th Dec 2009
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12th May 2010
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10th Aug 2010
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10th Aug 2010
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07th Mar 2011
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Tony_Jeffree
17th Oct 2011
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17th Oct 2011
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11th Jan 2012
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12th Jan 2012
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12th Jan 2012
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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Sat 29-Oct-05 09:58 AM
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#1. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Paignton, GB
          

Thanks very much for re-posting this very useful chart, Tony!

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Sat 29-Oct-05 11:03 AM
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#2. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 1


Manchester, GB
          

Brian -

Glad you found it useful.

I've also posted a spreadsheet on my website that I've found useful for getting a feel for how lenses behave when you add tubes and diopters - see this thread:

http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID63/621.html

Regards,
Tony

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 01:41 PM
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"Macro lens working distances - Nikon 105 VR added"


Manchester, GB
          

I've updated the spreadsheet to include the new Micro Nikkor 105mm VR. The data on focus distance and repro ratio on the Nikon website are slightly at odds. It says 2 things:

"- 1:1 of maximum reproduction ratio and up to 31cm closest focusing distance"

and

"- Up to 154mm working distance (at near 1:1)"

If you take the closest focus distance to be the point at which the repro ratio is 1:1, then the working distance at that point (subtracting the body depth and the lens length) is 147.5mm. However, the second statement offers a WD of 154mm "at near 1:1", which is 6.5mm more. On the basis that "near 1:1" isn't 1:1, I have opted to use the shorter WD in the table. However, if any of you lucky owners of this covetable lens would care to do some actual measurements at 1:1 I would be very interested to hear what the number actually is!

Either way, the new 105 looks like being at the long end of the working distances for the 90-105mm group.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

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hmll Registered since 14th Aug 2010Thu 19-Aug-10 12:28 AM
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#42. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 2


VE
          

Thnaks for info.
How can I compare macrolens vs extensions vs reverse lens vs dioptics?
by quality chart.... (not prices)
Thanks
Henrique

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 19-Aug-10 08:21 AM
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#43. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 42


Manchester, GB
          

>Thnaks for info.
>How can I compare macrolens vs extensions vs reverse lens vs
>dioptics?
>by quality chart.... (not prices)

Henrique -

In general, reversing a lens or using tubes will give better results than using a supplementary lens; however, the actual performance that you will get depends greatly on the particular lens that you plan to use.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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legolas Registered since 26th Sep 2007Sun 30-Sep-07 07:00 PM
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#7. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Mashad, IR
          

Hi
Can you please explain what is meaning of those column which has an "R" with them?

Also, How i can understand the following feature of a lens using these tables:

1-in which distance they get biggest and sharpest possible photos from the subjects.

2-How much magnifying each lens has.

thanks

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Tue 02-Oct-07 12:26 PM
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#8. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 7


Manchester, GB
          

>Hi
>Can you please explain what is meaning of those column which
>has an "R" with them?

This column shows the reproduction ratio at close focus. "1:1" is life-size - i.e., the image on the film/sensor is the same size as the subject. "1:2" is half life-size, i.e., the image is half the size of the subject.
>
>Also, How i can understand the following feature of a lens
>using these tables:
>
>1-in which distance they get biggest and sharpest possible
>photos from the subjects.

Look in the 'Focus at "R"' column - this is the focus distance (subject to film/sensor distance) for the reproduction ratio shown.
>
>2-How much magnifying each lens has.

See the "R" column. The current models of macro lens from the big name manufacturers (Nikon, Sigma, Tamron, Tokina) all give 1:1 (life-size) mangification at their closest focus. Some older lenses (for example, the manual focus Nikon Micro lenses) only managed to give 1:2 on their own and needed the addition of an extension tube or a supplementary close-up lens to get to 1:1; where I have information on the performance of a lens at 1:2 and 1:1 the lens appears in both tables, and the "Notes" column indicates what was added (if anything) to achieve the indicated value of R.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Tue 25-Dec-07 06:49 AM
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#11. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

I'm thinking that it would be useful to expand the table to show WD for all of the current crop of macro lenses at 1:2. Although comparing working distances at 1:1 is useful, in practice macro shots are often taken at more modest magnifications, so being able to compare WD performance at 1:2 as well as 1:1 would be more informative, especially as modern IF etc. lens designs mean that the change in WD with magnification may not be predictable from the figure at 1:1.

So, I would welcome additional information to owners of macro lenses that are on the 1:1 list, that don't appear at present on the 1:2 list, with details for 1:2 magnification. What I need is the following measurements when the lens is set to 1:2 magnification:

- The physical length of the lens (measured from the lens filter ring to the bayonet ring - the flat bit of the ring, not the bit that sticks out, i.e., when the lens is mounted, the distance from filter ring to the bayonet ring on the camera body);

- The working distance (i.e., the distance from the filter ring to the subject).

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 01:41 PM
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"RE: Macro lens working distances"


Manchester, GB
          

A further update to include the new Sigma 70mm macro lens.

As before, the "WD at R" column gives the working distance (front of filter ring to subject distance) for the stated reproduction ratio.

As the spreadsheet is now over 100K when converted to JPG, I have split it across two tables - one for 1:1 and one for less than 1:1.

Any corrections or additions welcome.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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smithy Registered since 06th Feb 2004Wed 01-Nov-06 04:00 AM
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#3. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Shanghai, CN
          

Thanks for adding this info .

If you have the time and inclination it would be interesting to add those zoom lenses which have a reasonable macro performance, eg 28 - 105 AFD

An Englishman in Shanghai

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 02-Nov-06 10:23 AM
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#4. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 3


Manchester, GB
          

Hi Smithy -

No problem with adding "macro" zooms to the table - the problem is getting hold of the relevant data. Seems to be easier to ger data on the "true" macro lenses. So if you have the relevant numbers to hand, let me know and I will add them. For example, the Sigma 70-300 lenses, which do 1:2 unaided, used to be sold with a matching diopter lens that took them to 1:1; that combo doesn't appear in the 1:1 table because I have so far failed to find out what WD the combination has - if anyone has that lens with the matched diopter I would be interested to hear from them.

A problem will be the fact that the max repro ratio tends to be a lot more variable with the "macro" zooms than with the true macro lenses, so comparing apples with apples will not be as straightforward.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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smithy Registered since 06th Feb 2004Sat 15-Dec-07 08:03 AM
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#9. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 4


Shanghai, CN
          

Nikon 28 - 105 F3.5 / 4.5 at 105mm setting macro
at 1:2, working distance to front of filter ring is 40mm

An Englishman in Shanghai

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Sat 15-Dec-07 09:52 PM
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#10. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 9


Manchester, GB
          

Thanks for that - can you tell me what the length of the lens is at that (1:2) setting, and also its minimum length please?

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 01:41 PM
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"RE: Macro lens working distances"


Manchester, GB
          

A further update to include the Nikon 70-200 AF-S VR, which can be used with the Canon 500D to get 1:2, and further addition of a TC20EII (or any other compatible 2X TC) will get 1:1.

As before, the "WD at R" column gives the working distance (front of filter ring to subject distance) for the stated reproduction ratio.

As the spreadsheet is now over 100K when converted to JPG, I have split it across two tables - one for 1:1 and one for less than 1:1.

Any corrections or additions welcome.



Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

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jaba Registered since 02nd Feb 2007Sun 12-Aug-07 04:59 PM
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#5. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


DE
          

>A further update to include the Nikon 70-200 AF-S VR, which
>can be used with the Canon 500D to get 1:2,

Sorry but I am learning a bit about macro photography and I wanted to check I understand the mathematics.

I was just reading the book from John Shaw on close-ups, and it mentions that the Magnification Factor of a lens with a diopter is FL lens/ FL diopter. The 500D that I just ordered is 2 diopter which means 500 mm focal length. Therefore the exact Magnification Factor should be 2:5.

Is that correct?

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Sun 12-Aug-07 05:11 PM
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#6. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 5


Manchester, GB
          

Not quite...

The calculation mentioned by John is correct for the case where you are adding a supplementary lens to your main lens, and the main lens has its focus ring set to focus at infinity. In the case of the 70-200 (set at 200mm) with the 500D fitted (500mm fl), the combination will give 2:5 repro ratio when the 70-200 has its focus ring set at infinity (and at that point, the actual focus distance of the combination will be approximately 500mm).

As the 70-200 lens can focus significantly closer than infinity, you get rather better than 2:5 when the lens is at its closest focus setting - 1:2 in this particular case.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 01:41 PM
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#12. "Update Oct 2007: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

I have added a couple of things to the tables:

- Data for the Vivitar AI 55mm f/2.8 macro lens at 1:2 and 1:1

- Data for the Phoenix/Vivitar/Cosina 100mm macro lens at 1:1 using a 48mm Kenko tube instead of its matched supplementary close-up lens. The difference in working distance is quite striking - 167mm with the tube as opposed to 43mm with the matched close-up lens. At 167mm WD, this lens has the longest WD of any ~100mm lens that I know of, the nearest being the Nikkor 105 AIS at 150mm. Interestingly, it is also not far behind the WD that you get with the Sigma 150mm (WD = 197mm), so if you want a cheap solution that gives more "reach", this is the way to go.

The reason the Vivitar 100mm lens manages to give such a good WD is that it focuses entirely by extension, whereas most modern macro lenses focus partly or wholly by reducing the effective focal length of the lens.

The data shows very clearly that the nominal focal length of a macro lens is not the whole story when it comes to getting the working distance you desire. Taking the ~100mm lens group (from the Tamron 90 through to the various 105mm lenses), there is a spread of working distances from 95mm to 167mm at 1:1. The differences come from essentially three sources; the nominal focal length of the lens, the method of focusing (extension vs focal length reduction), and the physical design/construction of the lens. The Tokina 100mm, for example, has a more deeply recesed front element than the others in the group. This reduces the available WD by about an inch, but on the other hand, it also acts like a built-in lens hood, meaning that you probably don't ever need to fit a hood, whereas with lenses where the front element is not recessed (the Nikon 105 VR for example), fitting a hood would be a necessity in some situations, which would reduce the quoted WD by the length of the hood.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 16-Jan-08 05:17 PM
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#13. "RE: Update Oct 2007: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 12


Manchester, GB
          

Thats very odd. The jpg files in this thread now appear as links rather than being displayed in-line; in other threads (for example, the monthly challenges) the pics appear in-line. Is this a "feature" of the new server?

Also, looks like all of the anchored threads (of which this was one) are now not anchored...

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Fri 15-Feb-08 08:13 AM
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#14. "Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 0
Fri 15-Feb-08 08:14 AM by Tony_Jeffree

Manchester, GB
          

A further update to include data for the new Nikon 60mm G AF-S lens, and the new Tokina 35mm macro lens. In the case of the latter, as I do not have an accurate figure for the length of the lens at 1:1 I have made an educated guess, so the WD figure is also a guess. To be corrected when I get the real numbers, but the manufacturer & distributors are not being terribly helpful as yet.

There are two tables: the first contains information for life-size reproduction, and the second (mostly) for 1:2 (half life-size) reproduction. Where I have the relevant information, a lens will appear in both tables. If you can help me to fill out entries in either table based on equipment that you own or have owned, then please let me know.

Interpretation of the columns:
==============================
Focal Length: Nominal lens focal length at infinity.
Max Aperture: Maximum aperture (smallest F-number) with lens focused at infinity.
Repro ratio "R": Reproduction ratio. 1:1 is life-size, i.e., the image on the sensor/film is the same as the subject; 1:2 is half life-size, and so on.
WD at "R": Working distance (distance from filter ring to subject) at the quoted value of "R".
Focus at "R": Focus distance (subject to sensor/film) at the quoted value of "R".
Min length: The length of the lens when focused at infinity.
Max length: The length of the lens when focused at the quoted value of "R".
Weight: Weight of the lens in grammes.
Filter diam: Diameter of the filter thread in mm.
Notes: Additional explanatory notes. Where supplementary lenses, extension tubes, and/or TCs are used to achiece the quoted value of "R", then the details are listed here, and the min/max lenght figures are adjusted accordingly.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery





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NGC2683 Registered since 23rd Sep 2006Thu 28-Feb-08 01:33 PM
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#15. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 14


US
          

Tony,

Unless I missed it somewhere in this thread, what is the 1:1 working distance for a Vivitar Series 1 90mm f/2.5 Macro lens with 1:1 adapter? I have one of these being shipped as I write this.

Thanks,

Scott

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 28-Feb-08 03:57 PM
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#16. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 15


Manchester, GB
          

Scott -

I don't have any information for that lens; when you get yours, I would be grateful if you would send me the relevant data for 1:1 and for 1:2 so that I can add it to the tables.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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NGC2683 Registered since 23rd Sep 2006Thu 28-Feb-08 04:06 PM
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#17. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 16


US
          

Tony,

I have the lens now and WOW! This lens is sharp with the 1:1 adapter too! Another thing I found out is the 1;1 adapter fits my Vivitar series 1 105mm f/2.5 macro to give a ~2:1 magnification

As soon as I come back down to earth from my excitement over these lenses, I will try to get an accurate working distance for the 90mm.

Scott

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 28-Feb-08 04:16 PM
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#18. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 17


Manchester, GB
          

Scott -

I have a copy of the Vivitar Series 1 105mm f/2.5 - as you say, these are great lenses! I would be interested to hear how they compare in performance, as I have not seen/used the 90mm. I owned one of the Vivitar 55mm f/2.8 (not Series 1) lenses briefly - long enough to ad its statistics to the table, at least . Potentially useful as it goes to 1:1 unaided, and is pretty sharp; however, I didn't like the colour that the lens imparted to the images - the pics I took with it all had a rather cold bluish cast which didn't work well for me. The 105 produces a much warmer and more pleasing colour balance to my eye.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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NGC2683 Registered since 23rd Sep 2006Thu 28-Feb-08 05:07 PM
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#20. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 18
Thu 28-Feb-08 05:12 PM by NGC2683

US
          

The 90mm is all metal and a marvel to look at. It is made by Tokina. Even the lens caps are metal! The lens does give a colder tone than my Sigma 150, but I'm using it with my SB-800 flash. I'm anxious to try it out in the field. On the 105 and the 90, when you use the macro adapter, you lose infinity focus which is no problem because I won't use it at that range anyway.

I do get a true 1.75:1 magnification ratio with the 105 coupled with the macro adapter. There appears to be no loss in IQ either.

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 28-Feb-08 08:27 PM
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#21. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 20


Manchester, GB
          

Yes, that is a consequence of using extension tubes (losing infinity focus), but as you say, the IQ doesn't suffer.

The Vivitar Series 1 macros were all very solidly built. The built-in, retractable metal lens hood on the 105 is quite a feature too!

You might give them both a try as short tele/portrait lenses (without the extension tube of course). I often use my Tokina 105mm macro as a general purpose short tele - its useful for landscapes too.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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NGC2683 Registered since 23rd Sep 2006Thu 28-Feb-08 09:35 PM
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#22. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 21


US
          

Tony,

I found a link to a scan of a Vivitar ad for the 90mm. It has working distances with and without the 1:1 macro adapter.............

http://photo.net/bboard/big-image?bboard_upload_id=23141884

Third column, upper right hand corner of page.

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 28-Feb-08 11:00 PM
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#23. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 22


Manchester, GB
          

Scott -

Interesting ad. I hadn't appreciated that the adapter had optical elements - I assumed (wrongly) that it was a plain extension tube. This will be optically matched to the 90mm lens, and therefore you may find that it doesn't perform ideally with the 105mm lens.

The info it gives on focus distances etc. misses out one or two details - it gives the minimum focus distances (film/sensor to subject) at 1:1 and 1:2, and gives the length of the lens when focused at infinity, but the one piece of information that is missing to work out the working distances (filter ring to subject) is the length of the lens when it is extended fully (i.e., when focused as close as it will go). If you were able to measure that for me from your lens that would fill in the blanks.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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NGC2683 Registered since 23rd Sep 2006Thu 28-Feb-08 11:17 PM
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#24. "RE: Macro lens working distances - updated 2008-02-15"
In response to Reply # 23


US
          

OK, I see what you are talking about. I'll get some measurements as soon as I can. As for the adapter, it works very well with the 105 and it even works with my 50mm f/1.8 AF-D Nikkor lens

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 28-Feb-08 04:35 PM
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#19. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 28-Feb-08 04:38 PM by Tony_Jeffree

Manchester, GB
          

Not sure what happened with my post #14, but it looks like I posted the wrong tables

So here goes for a second try...

A further update to include data for the new Nikon 60mm G AF-S lens, and the new Tokina 35mm macro lens. In the case of the latter, as I do not have an accurate figure for the length of the lens at 1:1 I have made an educated guess, so the WD figure is also a guess. To be corrected when I get the real numbers, but the manufacturer & distributors are not being terribly helpful as yet.

There are two tables: the first contains information for life-size reproduction, and the second (mostly) for 1:2 (half life-size) reproduction. Where I have the relevant information, a lens will appear in both tables. If you can help me to fill out entries in either table based on equipment that you own or have owned, then please let me know.

Interpretation of the columns:
==============================
Focal Length: Nominal lens focal length at infinity.
Max Aperture: Maximum aperture (smallest F-number) with lens focused at infinity.
Repro ratio "R": Reproduction ratio. 1:1 is life-size, i.e., the image on the sensor/film is the same as the subject; 1:2 is half life-size, and so on.
WD at "R": Working distance (distance from filter ring to subject) at the quoted value of "R".
Focus at "R": Focus distance (subject to sensor/film) at the quoted value of "R".
Min length: The length of the lens when focused at infinity.
Max length: The length of the lens when focused at the quoted value of "R".
Weight: Weight of the lens in grammes.
Filter diam: Diameter of the filter thread in mm.
Notes: Additional explanatory notes. Where supplementary lenses, extension tubes, and/or TCs are used to achiece the quoted value of "R", then the details are listed here, and the min/max length figures are adjusted accordingly.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery





Attachment #1, (jpg file)
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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 23-Apr-08 12:32 PM
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#25. "Macro lens working distances - April 08 update"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 24-Apr-08 10:18 PM by Tony_Jeffree

Manchester, GB
          

A further update - rows that contain new information are highlighted with grey shading. In particular, the table now has definitive information on the new Tokina 35mm f/2.8 macro lens, which should be available anytime now. Working distance at 1:1 is a diminutive 15mm (0.55"), so probably not the best choice for shooting nervous subjects!

There are two tables: the first contains information for life-size reproduction, and the second (mostly) for 1:2 (half life-size) reproduction. Where I have the relevant information, a lens will appear in both tables. If you can help me to fill out entries in either table based on equipment that you own or have owned, then please let me know.

Interpretation of the columns:
==============================
Focal Length: Nominal lens focal length at infinity.
Max Aperture: Maximum aperture (smallest F-number) with lens focused at infinity.
Repro ratio "R": Reproduction ratio. 1:1 is life-size, i.e., the image on the sensor/film is the same as the subject; 1:2 is half life-size, and so on.
WD at "R": Working distance (distance from filter ring to subject) at the quoted value of "R".
Focus at "R": Focus distance (subject to sensor/film) at the quoted value of "R".
Min length: The length of the lens when focused at infinity.
Max length: The length of the lens when focused at the quoted value of "R".
Weight: Weight of the lens in grammes.
Filter diam: Diameter of the filter thread in mm.
Notes: Additional explanatory notes. Where supplementary lenses, extension tubes, and/or TCs are used to achiece the quoted value of "R", then the details are listed here, and the min/max length figures are adjusted accordingly.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery





Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 21-May-08 10:38 PM
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#26. "Macro lens working distances - May 21 update"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 22-May-08 06:20 AM by Tony_Jeffree

Manchester, GB
          

A further update - rows that contain new information are highlighted with grey shading.

Three additions this time: the 50mm and 100mm Zeiss Makro lenses, and the Nikon 28-105 zoom. The latter is interesting as it is one of the few general-purpose zooms produced by Nikon that has a useful close focus ability; in this case, 1:2 reproduction unaided, so I was keen to get hold of a sample to check it out. However, you pay for the macro feature in terms of working distance - at 1:2 it has about one half of the WD of a Sigma 50mm macro lens at the same magnification. And unfortunately, as shown on the first line of the first table, if you add a 20mm Kenko extension tube, you get very close to 1:1, but with the subject right at the end of the lens. If you were to increase the extension to 23mm to get true 1:1, the effective working distance would go negative - i.e., the subject plane is the wrong side of the front element. Too bad...

There are two tables: the first contains information (mostly) for 1:1 (life-size) reproduction, and the second (mostly) for 1:2 (half life-size) reproduction. Where I have the relevant information, a lens will appear in both tables. If you can help me to fill out entries in either table based on equipment that you own or have owned, then please let me know.

Interpretation of the columns:
==============================
Focal Length: Nominal lens focal length at infinity.
Max Aperture: Maximum aperture (smallest F-number) with lens focused at infinity.
Repro ratio "R": Reproduction ratio. 1:1 is life-size, i.e., the image on the sensor/film is the same as the subject; 1:2 is half life-size, and so on.
WD at "R": Working distance (distance from filter ring to subject) at the quoted value of "R".
Focus at "R": Focus distance (subject to sensor/film) at the quoted value of "R".
Min length: The length of the lens when focused at infinity.
Max length: The length of the lens when focused at the quoted value of "R".
Weight: Weight of the lens in grammes.
Filter diam: Diameter of the filter thread in mm.
Notes: Additional explanatory notes. Where supplementary lenses, extension tubes, and/or TCs are used to achiece the quoted value of "R", then the details are listed here, and the min/max length figures are adjusted accordingly.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery






Attachment #1, (jpg file)
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Blufox Silver Member Nikonian since 24th Feb 2007Sun 22-Jun-08 09:00 PM
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#27. "RE: Macro lens working distances - May 21 update"
In response to Reply # 26


Nampa, US
          

Thanks for the chart! Now if only there was a button to convert it to inches!

Larry

"Every moment in life is unique and will never be repeated. These are the moments that present the greatest opportunity for a photographer..."

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Sun 22-Jun-08 09:05 PM
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#28. "RE: Macro lens working distances - May 21 update"
In response to Reply # 27


Manchester, GB
          

>Thanks for the chart! Now if only there was a button to
>convert it to inches!

Divide by 25.4

So, for practical purposes, 100mm ~= 4". Not so difficult...

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Bufo55 Basic MemberThu 04-Sep-08 01:22 AM
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#29. "RE: Macro lens working distances - May 21 update"
In response to Reply # 26


US
          

I just added a Nikkor 105 f/4 AI Micro, with PN-11 to my working collection. One thing I noticed right away was very little "breathing" (don't know if that's just a motion picture/video term or if still photographers use it too), i.e. change in image size (because of actual focal length changes) as focus distance changes. Since I've read that manufacturers of micro lenses often "cheat" by shortening the focal length as focus distance changes, especially on IF models, I thought I'd take measurements on my lens.

So here are my measurements. I'm not an engineer, but I do some carpentry, so I think they are accurate within 1 mm. I weighed using a triple beam balance (used to teach Chemistry). So even if the measurements may not match Nikon specs, I think they are fairly accurate.

In the 1:1 table:
Micro Nikkor AI, 105, 4, 1:1, 173, 423, 151.5,204,509 (plus PN-11),52,PN-11 (52.5mm, 223.5g)

In the 1:2 table (starting with WD):
277, 470, 99, 151.5, 509

BTW, this is a great lens in good light (and not just because that makes it easier to focus). After testing it a bit, I would say it's main weakness is it seems to lose a lot of contrast (and therefore subjective sharpness) in marginal or flat light - more than other lenses I have. I don't know if this makes sense, but that's my perception.

PEACE,
Steve

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 04-Sep-08 09:29 AM
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#30. "RE: Macro lens working distances - May 21 update"
In response to Reply # 29


Manchester, GB
          

Steve -

Many thanks - I will add that info to the next update.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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rksmith Registered since 08th May 2008Sun 19-Oct-08 03:36 PM
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#31. "RE: Macro lens working distances - May 21 update"
In response to Reply # 30


GB
          

This data is all very handy, but at the end of the day its the image that actually matters, how about we all submit a standard shot of a 1p coin or other subject that we can all use and award the lens a mark out of 10.

Bob

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Tue 02-Dec-08 07:33 AM
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#32. "RE: Macro lens working distances - May 21 update"
In response to Reply # 31


Manchester, GB
          

Bob -

There are other sites that have example shots from a wide variety of lenses that you can look at to get an impression of how different lenses perform.

With macro lenses, all of which seem to be excellent performers optically, I doubt very much that you would see any visible difference in performance at the image size/resolution that we are allowed to post here, even if you could get people to post images taken under comparable conditions. I suspect that in practice the images would tell you more about the shooting conditions and the skills of the photographer than the quality of the lens.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Sat 24-Jan-09 12:54 PM
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#33. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

Reading a comparative review of the Tokina 35mm (a DX lens) and the Sigma 50mm (a full frame lens) in AP magazine makes me think that it might be useful to add a third table that shows the WD of macro lenses at a repro ratio of 1:1.5, which would allow WD comparisons to be made between DX and FX taking account of the crop factor (see http://www.nikonians.org/forums/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=169&topic_id=28545&mesg_id=28545&page=#28866).

Any data for lens performance at 1:1.5 would therefore be gratefully reveived. What I need is the WD (lens filter ring to subject) at that repro ratio, plus the increase in length of the lens (relative to its length at infinity focus). I can figure out the rest from the data I already have (unless it is a lens that is not already in the tables, in which case, I would ideally need the full data for 1:1 and 1:2 as well).

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 26-Mar-09 12:57 PM
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#34. "March 2009 update: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

A further update - rows that contain new information are highlighted with grey shading.

Various additions this time relating to older macro lens models - the Nikon 55m AF, the Tokina M100AF, and the venerable Micro Nikkor 105mm AI. However, I have also managed to glean the necessary data from the recent Tamron announcement of their 60mm F2.0 macro lens, which boasts an astonishing (for a 60mm lens) 100mm working distance at 1:1!

There are two tables: the first contains information (mostly) for 1:1 (life-size) reproduction, and the second (mostly) for 1:2 (half life-size) reproduction. Where I have the relevant information, a lens will appear in both tables. If you can help me to fill out entries in either table based on equipment that you own or have owned, then please let me know.

Interpretation of the columns:
==============================
Focal Length: Nominal lens focal length at infinity.
Max Aperture: Maximum aperture (smallest F-number) with lens focused at infinity.
Repro ratio "R": Reproduction ratio. 1:1 is life-size, i.e., the image on the sensor/film is the same as the subject; 1:2 is half life-size, and so on.
WD at "R": Working distance (distance from filter ring to subject) at the quoted value of "R".
Focus at "R": Focus distance (subject to sensor/film) at the quoted value of "R".
Min length: The length of the lens when focused at infinity.
Max length: The length of the lens when focused at the quoted value of "R".
Weight: Weight of the lens in grammes.
Filter diam: Diameter of the filter thread in mm.
Notes: Additional explanatory notes. Where supplementary lenses, extension tubes, and/or TCs are used to achiece the quoted value of "R", then the details are listed here, and the min/max length figures are adjusted accordingly.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery





Attachment #1, (jpg file)
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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 16-Dec-09 11:14 AM
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#35. "December 2009 update"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

A further update - rows that contain new information are highlighted with grey shading.

Only one addition this time, but a potentially interesting one; the Micro NIKKOR 85mm f/3.5G ED VR. Only 85mm FL, but packs a working distance that most of the ~105mm FL lenses would envy. With VR thrown in as well, this sounds to me like a useful piece of glass.

There are two tables: the first contains information (mostly) for 1:1 (life-size) reproduction, and the second (mostly) for 1:2 (half life-size) reproduction. Where I have the relevant information, a lens will appear in both tables. If you can help me to fill out entries in either table based on equipment that you own or have owned, then please let me know.

Interpretation of the columns (all lengths are in millimetres):
===============================================================
Focal Length: Nominal lens focal length at infinity.
Max Aperture: Maximum aperture (smallest F-number) with lens focused at infinity.
Repro ratio "R": Reproduction ratio. 1:1 is life-size, i.e., the image on the sensor/film is the same as the subject; 1:2 is half life-size, and so on.
WD at "R": Working distance (distance from filter ring to subject) at the quoted value of "R".
Focus at "R": Focus distance (subject to sensor/film) at the quoted value of "R".
Min length: The length of the lens when focused at infinity.
Max length: The length of the lens when focused at the quoted value of "R".
Weight: Weight of the lens in grammes.
Filter diam: Diameter of the filter thread in mm.
Notes: Additional explanatory notes. Where supplementary lenses, extension tubes, and/or TCs are used to achiece the quoted value of "R", then the details are listed here, and the min/max length figures are adjusted accordingly.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery





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briantilley Moderator Deep knowledge of bodies and lens; high level photography skills Nikonian since 26th Jan 2003Wed 16-Dec-09 11:52 AM
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#36. "RE: December 2009 update"
In response to Reply # 35


Paignton, GB
          

Thanks again, Tony

Brian
Welsh Nikonian

  

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toko Registered since 04th May 2009Wed 12-May-10 01:19 PM
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#37. "RE: December 2009 update"
In response to Reply # 36
Wed 12-May-10 01:20 PM by toko

Mölnlycke, SE
          

Nice work! I think your table would be even clearer if you include unit in top of table column (Focal Length (mm), Min Length (mm), Weight (gr) etc…).

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 12-May-10 02:07 PM
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#38. "RE: December 2009 update"
In response to Reply # 37


Manchester, GB
          

>Nice work! I think your table would be even clearer if you
>include unit in top of table column (Focal Length (mm), Min
>Length (mm), Weight (gr) etc…).

Thanks for the suggestion - however, as focal lengths are always quoted in mm this seemed superfluous. I will bear it in mind next time I update it.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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patriot1123 Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2006Tue 10-Aug-10 03:19 AM
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#39. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Scottsdale, US
          

I apologize for the dumb question ... but why is it important to know the working distance? Is that so you can be sure to position the lens at that distance and get the maximum benefit from the macro capabilities of the lens?

And why is it important to know the distance from the subject to the sensor ("focus at 'r'")?

Thanks!

-Anne in Arizona

Visit my Nikonians.org Gallery

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Tue 10-Aug-10 04:07 AM
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#40. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 39


Manchester, GB
          

>I apologize for the dumb question ... but why is it important
>to know the working distance? Is that so you can be sure to
>position the lens at that distance and get the maximum benefit
>from the macro capabilities of the lens?
>

It helps to know this when choosing a macro lens for a specific purpose, e.g., photographing nervous or dangerous creatures. I wouldn't choose a lens with a small WD if I was photographing venomous snakes.

>And why is it important to know the distance from the subject
>to the sensor ("focus at 'r'")?
>

That is the figure usually quoted by the lens manufacturer. Because it includes the length of the lens at that focus distance it doesn't directly give you the WD.


Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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patriot1123 Silver Member Nikonian since 09th Jan 2006Thu 12-Aug-10 04:33 PM
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#41. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 40


Scottsdale, US
          

Thank you! That was helpful.

-Anne in Arizona

Visit my Nikonians.org Gallery

  

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Abhishekvarma Registered since 22nd Feb 2011Mon 07-Mar-11 06:05 AM
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#44. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 41


IN
          

Hi Tony,

I am an amateur photographer, I have been toying with the idea of buying a macro lens. The purpose with to shoot flowers, bugs, coins & stamps. I have a Kenko extension tube set and a macro-kit (set of four diopter lens +1, +2, +4 & +10), I have also experimented with reverse mounting my 50mm 1.8D on to the extension tube.

I have shortlisted two lens (1) Nikkor 105mm D-type and (2) Sigma 150mm macro lens, both hv similar price. I have a spacific question for you, since Sigma has a 72mm filter size, if I reverse mount 50mm 1.8D using coupling rings, will there be significant vignetting in the image? Should I hence go for 105mm Nikkor which has a 52mm filter size and would allow me to reverse mount the 50mm lens on it without vignetting, but may be with a lesser working distance and some limitation in case I want to go after those bugs with my extension tubes and reverse mounted 50mm.

Please advised

Regards

Abhishek

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Mon 17-Oct-11 11:40 AM
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#45. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 44


Manchester, GB
          

>Hi Tony,
>
>I am an amateur photographer, I have been toying with the idea
>of buying a macro lens. The purpose with to shoot flowers,
>bugs, coins & stamps. I have a Kenko extension tube set
>and a macro-kit (set of four diopter lens +1, +2, +4 &
>+10), I have also experimented with reverse mounting my 50mm
>1.8D on to the extension tube.
>
>I have shortlisted two lens (1) Nikkor 105mm D-type and (2)
>Sigma 150mm macro lens, both hv similar price. I have a
>spacific question for you, since Sigma has a 72mm filter size,
>if I reverse mount 50mm 1.8D using coupling rings, will there
>be significant vignetting in the image? Should I hence go for
>105mm Nikkor which has a 52mm filter size and would allow me
>to reverse mount the 50mm lens on it without vignetting, but
>may be with a lesser working distance and some limitation in
>case I want to go after those bugs with my extension tubes and
>reverse mounted 50mm.
>
>Please advised
>
>Regards
>
>Abhishek

Hi -

My apologies for not spotting this question earlier.

I don't have either the 105 VR or the 150 Sigma, so I cannot advise on whether or not reversing the 50mm lens on the front of either lens gives problems with vignetting - I'm afraid un;less there is someone out there that has direct experience the only way to find out will be to try it yourself. I would say though that a 50mm reversed on the front of a 150mm lens gives you a magnification of 3:1 (3 times life-size), which is a helluva magnification to deal with; depth of field will be miniscule and you will need a very stable tripod/mounting system to control camera shake.

Regards,
Tony

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Mon 17-Oct-11 06:41 PM
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#46. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

Here's an update to the working distance tables. There are now three tables; in all cases, they are sorted by the "WD at R" column, which is the working distance (distance between the lens filter ring and the subject) at "R", the reproduction ratio. The "Focus at R" column gives the focus distance (sensor to subject) that is usually quoted in the lens lietrature.

The first table is for an R of 1:1, the second table for 1:2, and the third table, which is a bit of an experiment, shows the WD for an R of 1:1.5. The point of this last table is that if you slap a macro lens on a DX body, then an object that fills the DX frame at 1:1.5 will also fill the frame on an FX body with the lens set at 1:1. Hence, you can see that (for example) using a ~100 mm lens on an DX body at 1:1.5 gives similar working distances to using a 150mm lens on a DX body, if the degree to which the subject fills the frame is the same.

The only new (relative to the last tables published) lens is I believe the 40mm Nikon AF-S; interestingly, this gives slightly better WD at 1:1 than the AF-S version of the Nikon 60mm lens, which is a bit of a surprise, but underlines the fact that the newer lens designs focus by manipulating the optical configuration in various ways rather than by simple extension. The rows highlighted in grey contain new information relative to the last tables that I posted.

If anyone has new information that they can contribute to these tables to make them more complete, please let me know.

Regards,
Tony

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Attachment #1, (jpg file)
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Attachment #3, (jpg file)

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Wed 11-Jan-12 01:33 PM
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#47. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0


Manchester, GB
          

Yet another update to the working distance tables, prompted this time by the recent Sigma announcements of new OS versions of their 105mm, 150mm, and 180mm macro lenses. Interesting to note that the newer 105mm lens gains a useful 18mm of working distance, while the 150mm and 180mm lose 14mm and 13mm respectively. In the case of the 150mm, the new version now only manages a paltry 10mm advantage in WD over the best of the 105mm lenses.

There are now three tables; in all cases, they are sorted by the "WD at R" column, which is the working distance (distance between the lens filter ring and the subject) at "R", the reproduction ratio. The "Focus at R" column gives the focus distance (sensor to subject) that is usually quoted in the lens literature.

The first table is for an R of 1:1, the second table for 1:2, and the third table, which is a bit of an experiment, shows the WD for an R of 1:1.5. The point of this last table is that if you slap a macro lens on a DX body, then an object that fills the DX frame at 1:1.5 will also fill the frame on an FX body with the lens set at 1:1. Hence, you can see that (for example) using a ~100 mm lens on an DX body at 1:1.5 gives similar working distances to using a 150mm lens on a DX body, if the degree to which the subject fills the frame is the same.

The only new (relative to the last tables published) lens is I believe the 40mm Nikon AF-S; interestingly, this gives slightly better WD at 1:1 than the AF-S version of the Nikon 60mm lens, which is a bit of a surprise, but underlines the fact that the newer lens designs focus by manipulating the optical configuration in various ways rather than by simple extension. The rows highlighted in grey contain new information relative to the last tables that I posted.

If anyone has new information that they can contribute to these tables to make them more complete, please let me know.
Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery








Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)

  

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scenicshutterbug Silver Member Nikonian since 27th May 2008Thu 12-Jan-12 12:16 PM
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#48. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu 12-Jan-12 12:17 PM by scenicshutterbug

Richland, US
          

Moderators: Can the chart be pinned to the top?


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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Thu 12-Jan-12 09:01 PM
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#49. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 48


Manchester, GB
          

There's a link to this thread in the (pinned "Macro Photography Tips and Tricks" thread.

Regards,
Tony

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scenicshutterbug Silver Member Nikonian since 27th May 2008Sat 14-Jan-12 12:49 PM
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#50. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 49


Richland, US
          

Thanks!

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spock Registered since 02nd Jan 2012Tue 17-Jan-12 12:31 AM
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#51. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 49


US
          

Tony,

I have a Nikon AF D 70-210mm 1:4-5.6 with a Nikon 6T lens attachment. Where would it fit into this table? Thanks, Tim

  

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Tony_Jeffree Registered since 13th Oct 2004Tue 17-Jan-12 06:25 AM
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#52. "RE: Macro lens working distances"
In response to Reply # 51


Manchester, GB
          

> Tony,
>
> I have a Nikon AF D 70-210mm 1:4-5.6 with a Nikon 6T
>lens attachment. Where would it fit into this table? Thanks,
>Tim

Tim -

I don't have any information on the 70-210 with a 6T. If you could send it to me I could add it to the tables.

Regards,
Tony

My Nikonians Gallery

  

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