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Subject: "Another Ruffins Pond" Previous topic | Next topic
zeButcher Registered since 14th Dec 2005Wed 16-Jan-08 01:32 PM
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"Another Ruffins Pond"


Fredericksburg, US
          

This was actually a portrait format originally. I removed about a third of the sky closest to the tree line as it was rather flat and boring.

Not much of a focal point, but I liked the smooth water and tree reflections.

-Edit...might be nice if I uploaded file, duh.

Tim
My Nikonians Gallery

"The EYES have IT"

Tim Lucente
Click HERE to see my online galleries.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
nkcllewis Silver Member
01st Mar 2006
1
Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
zeButcher
01st Mar 2006
2
     Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
nkcllewis Silver Member
02nd Mar 2006
3
          Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
zeButcher
02nd Mar 2006
4
               Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
nkcllewis Silver Member
02nd Mar 2006
6
                    Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
zeButcher
02nd Mar 2006
9
Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
radek_42
02nd Mar 2006
5
Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
nkcllewis Silver Member
02nd Mar 2006
7
Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
zeButcher
02nd Mar 2006
8
     Reply message RE: Another Ruffins Pond
radek_42
03rd Mar 2006
10

nkcllewis Silver Member Charter MemberWed 01-Mar-06 07:17 PM
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#1. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 0


Washington, US
          

Tim, I like the idea but have you considered adding more contrast to the sky? Also, by eliminating the upper sky you are bisecting your image with the horizon which makes the image a bit static, in my view.

Anyways, just my opinion,

Kent

PS, as a black and white, you do not have much in the way of whites or tonal gradation. I'd work the trees some also.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



"A poor worker always blames his tools" Anonymous

  

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zeButcher Registered since 14th Dec 2005Wed 01-Mar-06 09:30 PM
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#2. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 1


Fredericksburg, US
          

More contrast to the sky is doable. And as I think about your second point, third point, make a lot of sense. While on that third point, I am a fan of full tonal ranges, but this shot really had nothing in it that was white or I thought looked good as white. It seemed to impart too much contrast, to what I saw as a somewhat low key (hence the agreement on the sky.) More a question than disagreement, does there always have to be a white?

More interestly for me anyway, is the compostional issu of the horizon. I have never been a Hasselblad owner, or any other square format. Are the compositional rules the same for square format? It would seem to me that they have to differ a little, though it still may not be pleasing to bisect with the horizon.

Thanks,

Tim
My Nikonians Gallery

"The EYES have IT"

Tim Lucente
Click HERE to see my online galleries.

  

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nkcllewis Silver Member Charter MemberThu 02-Mar-06 03:55 PM
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#3. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 2


Washington, US
          

More a question than disagreement,
>does there always have to be a white?

I don't know if there always has to be a white but I do know that good tonal range in a black and white adds depth to an image. I use the dodge and burn tool selectively instead of the more global darkness/lightness tool.
>
Are the compositional rules the same
>for square format? >
>
Tim, I have found that posting a reply is a bit of give and take in that I see it as a learning/sharing on both sides. Your questions have forced me to think through my thought process.

In viewing your square image, I saw what I perceived to be a compositional concern; I also do not do lots of square images. Still, my training has been that the golden rule of thirds is equally applicable in all formats and further, that nothing is set in stone. The square format offers some compositional options not acceptable in the 2/3rds format and vice versa, so go figure. In the case of your image above, I want to see more sky so I am perhaps biased in wanting the rule of thirds to apply.

Kent

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



"A poor worker always blames his tools" Anonymous

  

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zeButcher Registered since 14th Dec 2005Thu 02-Mar-06 05:42 PM
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#4. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 3


Fredericksburg, US
          

Kent,

Thanks for all the feedback. I was actually relieved to read your point on the give and take. It assured me you understood I was only trying to understand better, not simply rebut.

I think I will go back to the raw image, your suggestions in mind, and see what I can come up with. There is a fair amount of retouching on this image to add depth to the trees and to revoce disctracting foreground clutter, not to mention sky treament.
I'll post again here when done.

But as I'm thinking about how to alter, I find myself asking:

Does the image merit the work? Or is it simply lacking in visual interest and focal point?

Thanks,

Tim
My Nikonians Gallery

"The EYES have IT"

Tim Lucente
Click HERE to see my online galleries.

  

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nkcllewis Silver Member Charter MemberThu 02-Mar-06 07:41 PM
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#6. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 4


Washington, US
          


>
>Does the image merit the work? Or is it simply lacking in
>visual interest and focal point?
>
>Thanks,
>
Tim, my experience on this site, is that unless you have something nice to say, sometimes it is best not to say anything at all. Seeing that the response to this image was very limited may indicate that others do not see potential to this image; or, if they do, do not want to comment for fear of offending the original poster and getting flamed; that happens on occasion.

Again, I would not have commented unless I saw merit or at least potential. In this case, I see merit if you can work the shadow/highlight thing to create depth and detail. This may mean that you will have to eliminate the white borders since your image is, as a result, too small to reveal much in the way of shadow/highlight detail.

Kent

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



"A poor worker always blames his tools" Anonymous

  

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zeButcher Registered since 14th Dec 2005Thu 02-Mar-06 11:27 PM
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#9. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 6


Fredericksburg, US
          

>Tim, my experience on this site, is that unless you have
>something nice to say, sometimes it is best not to say
>anything at all. Seeing that the response to this image was
>very limited may indicate that others do not see potential
>to this image; or, if they do, do not want to comment for
>fear of offending the original poster and getting flamed;
>that happens on occasion.

I understand, but wish it wasn't so. Choosing my keepers is one of the most difficult tasks for me. Bad feedback is better than none. These forums really limit thier usefulness if it is only about positive feedback. Perhaps I've missed the purpose of these forums. Is there only one forum where critical comments are assumed to be welcome? If this is simply about showing off ones work, what the point to providing shooting info as I was sked for elsewhere. Why not just post links to the galleries. rather than images.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your feedback, you obviously put thought into it. I'm just a little dissapointed in the tendencies you describe. Kind of wish there was a simple, anonymous (for those too shy to share)button to praise or pan.

Tim
My Nikonians Gallery

"The EYES have IT"

Tim Lucente
Click HERE to see my online galleries.

  

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radek_42 Registered since 12th Dec 2005Thu 02-Mar-06 05:49 PM
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#5. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 0


Pasadena, US
          

Tim,

I think it's a lovely and pieceful picture. I agree, that you could remove a bit more of the sky to bring horizont closer to 1/3. (it will also bring you back to landscape format .. as you can see I am not a big fan of square format ).

I have one very basic question (I hear that all the time): what is dodge and burn tool and how you use it? I learnt PS7 myself (no books; I just learn one thing at the time - either from help, or from various web sites). Now I need to learn dodge and burn btw, for local changes in contrast/light/satuaration/color I use adjustment layer w/ a mask (but this is sometimes a bit overkill ...). Thanks for help.

Keep shooting/keep posting!
Cheers, R>

------------------------------
Radek Urban
"The Answer is 42."
"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." -Dalai Lama
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=82954

------------------------------
Radek Urban
"The Answer is 42."
"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." -Dalai Lama
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=82954

  

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nkcllewis Silver Member Charter MemberThu 02-Mar-06 07:43 PM
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#7. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 5


Washington, US
          


>
>I have one very basic question (I hear that all the time):
>what is dodge and burn tool and how you use it?
Radek, the dodge and burn tool allows you to selectively brighten or darken an area of your image. Ansel Adams was a master of this and is one of the primary reasons why his images look so good.

Kent

Visit my Nikonians gallery.



"A poor worker always blames his tools" Anonymous

  

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zeButcher Registered since 14th Dec 2005Thu 02-Mar-06 11:08 PM
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#8. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 5


Fredericksburg, US
          

Thanks Radek, between you and Kent, I'm convinced it's worth another go.
>
>I have one very basic question (I hear that all the time):
>what is dodge and burn tool and how you use it? I learnt PS7
>myself (no books; I just learn one thing at the time -
>either from help, or from various web sites). Now I need to
>learn dodge and burn btw, for local changes in
>contrast/light/satuaration/color I use adjustment layer w/ a
>mask (but this is sometimes a bit overkill ...). Thanks for
>help.

The dodge and burn tool can be found on the right hand column of the PS tool pallet. The burn tool looks like a signaling an "o" (thumb and index tip to tip. The dodge tool looks like a magnifying glass with glass blackened. There is third mode called the sponge tool, shaped like a sponge that occupies the same space. Which happens to be just above the "T" or text tool. It's a modal tool, if you click and hold you can select from one of the 3 modes. I try to use it sparingly, prefering the method you described, but for some fine work, its hard to beat. I tend to use it on its own layer. I always over do it a bit and then back off the layer transparency. For down and dirty work, the same effect can be had using the fade tool option immediately after having used it.

I have found using it for small areas, with a soft edge and only 1-2 percent exposure works well and lets me build density a little at a time.

Thanks,

Tim
My Nikonians Gallery

"The EYES have IT"

Tim Lucente
Click HERE to see my online galleries.

  

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radek_42 Registered since 12th Dec 2005Fri 03-Mar-06 04:03 AM
490 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Another Ruffins Pond"
In response to Reply # 8


Pasadena, US
          

Thanks guys. I tried it, but it will take some practice Thanks for help.

Cheers, R>

------------------------------
Radek Urban
"The Answer is 42."
"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." -Dalai Lama
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=82954

------------------------------
Radek Urban
"The Answer is 42."
"Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly." -Dalai Lama
http://www.nikonians-images.com/galleries/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=82954

  

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