Go to a  "printer friendly" view of this message which allow an easy print Printer-friendly copy Go to the page which allows you to send this topic link and a message to a friend Email this topic to a friend
Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR VISION - BY SPECIALTY Landscape (Public) topic #71207
View in linear mode

Subject: "Night time landscape photography noise reduction" Previous topic | Next topic
mvlow1974 Registered since 03rd Dec 2012Sun 06-Jan-13 05:36 PM
107 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
"Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
Sun 06-Jan-13 06:41 PM by mvlow1974

US
          

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this question. I do not think this fits in the Astrophotography forum as I am only shooting stars and not using any specialiazed equipment such as a telescope etc.

I have been experimenting with night landscape photography and watched a good video by Kamil Tamiola on Vimeo. Kamil made the cover of National Geographic with one of his night landscape mountain shots.

http://vimeo.com/52715804

In the video at about 11:13 he mentions turning noise reduction off in the camera as it does not work well for night photography. I am using a D7000 and post processing in LR4. Can anyone tell me if I should switch off both the Long Exposure Noise reduction and the High ISO noise reduction when shooting exposures of 20 to 30 seconds at night with ISO between 1600 and 3200. Also using LR4 do I just use the Detail settings of Luminance and sharpening to reduce the noise or are there some other settings that will help?

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
Asgard Administrator
06th Jan 2013
1
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
mvlow1974
07th Jan 2013
4
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
Robman3
06th Jan 2013
2
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
mvlow1974
07th Jan 2013
5
     Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
Robman3
16th Jan 2013
9
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
dagoldst Silver Member
07th Jan 2013
3
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
mvlow1974
07th Jan 2013
6
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
Mik3ymomo
14th Jan 2013
8
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
Shakenbake
07th Jan 2013
7
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
ericbowles Moderator
27th Jan 2013
10
Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
mvlow1974
27th Jan 2013
11
     Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
ericbowles Moderator
28th Jan 2013
12
          Reply message RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction
mvlow1974
28th Jan 2013
13

Asgard Administrator He is your Chief Guardian Angel at the Helpdesk and knows a lot about a lot Nikonian since 07th Apr 2004Sun 06-Jan-13 08:56 PM
51743 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#1. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 0


East Frisia, DE
          

With LR4 I don't have any experience.

But you can Turn Off the noise reduction. Not really a difference between turn off and turn on. But turn off is much faster to store the image on the card.

Gerold - Nikonian in East Frisia
Eala Freya Fresena

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
mvlow1974 Registered since 03rd Dec 2012Mon 07-Jan-13 01:36 AM
107 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#4. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 1


US
          

Gerold,

I am not sure if you are saying that the noise reduction does not make much difference, or just that it is easy to turn off? Thanks.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Robman3 Registered since 12th Apr 2010Sun 06-Jan-13 09:39 PM
1793 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#2. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 06-Jan-13 09:41 PM by Robman3

West of Santa Monica, US
          

Hi Malcolm,

I tried some MC-36 stuff last week, attempting NEF time lapse because the on-board functions of the D800 with MUP are hard set for 30 second intervals, then the timing for the shot, hence more than the nominal 20 to 30 seconds.

I did learn that using MUP as a stand alone for a still on the D800 caused smear on the farthest part of a night shot on the steps of the Furnace Creek patio. The closer railing, steps etc. are fine so it's plain that the time between mirror up and shot, can be extended/corrected by using the MC-36.

I was not using the D7000 or the D3S this trip, so cannot tell if the same would occur.

16/12 MPs may be more forgiving but a comment on the Astro forum suggests setting ten seconds between the MUP and the shot plus a sand bag on the telephoto lens for night landscapes. One could assume the same goes for star capture (not sure).

Also, a time lapse function is JPEG only and interval timing is hard set to refocus every shot according to page 208 in the D800 user manual.

The D7000 manual does not indicate that will occur on the Interval Timer, page 155.

My results were not great, only because I wasted time switching from a 50mm to the 24-70 and back again, then the moon came up.

Choosing to turn off the Hi-ISO NR on the D7000 is overridden when that camera is set to ISO 1600 or higher, page 205, the last item listed on the page. Same for the D800, page 277.

The D3S is different, page 291, (@ Hi-0.3)

Hi-ISO has no effect on video capture, as these files are all JPEG around 2MP plus or minus.

Didn't mean to ramble on the D800, but always good to share I suppose.

Neil and others in the Astro forum may have better hints.

HTH's

Rob

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
mvlow1974 Registered since 03rd Dec 2012Mon 07-Jan-13 01:40 AM
107 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#5. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 2


US
          

Rob,

Thanks for taking the time to describe your experience with the M-36, it was very interesting. I like your rattlesnake pictures in your gallery. You are a braver man than me

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
Robman3 Registered since 12th Apr 2010Wed 16-Jan-13 03:58 AM
1793 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#9. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 5


West of Santa Monica, US
          

Malcolm, sorry for the delayed reply.

The snake, about four years old but quite small given the desert extremes.

I saw him, turned around, doubled back and set up the tripod/D90 and wasn't on my game for exposure because I thought it might leave.

A rattler cannot strike beyond about 2/3s of it's length, the creature was all of 18 to 20 inches or so long, so at 3 feet distance, all was well.

The tail was rigid meaning a warning was long past, get close and I'll bite.

I was reading Rockwell's site, apparently the older AF Nikkor, 85mm f/1.8 is a very sharp lens for stars.

Thanks for posting, I'm still wrangler with how to get good results, short of the equatorial mount mentioned below.

RM





Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

dagoldst Silver Member Nikonian since 02nd Dec 2012Mon 07-Jan-13 12:30 AM
2256 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#3. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 0


Little Rock, US
          

Just my two cents - shooting at night time for landscape is no different than daytime - best images are at base ISO. Anything above that, you are going to lose detail as you attempt to suppress noise with the chroma and luminance settings of any image processor.

With LR4, the only way to reduce apparent noise is with the settings your mentioned. There is a limit to how good that is going to look in the final analysis.


David

"Sawed that board three times and it is still too short... "

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
mvlow1974 Registered since 03rd Dec 2012Mon 07-Jan-13 01:46 AM
107 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#6. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 3


US
          

>Just my two cents - shooting at night time for landscape is
>no different than daytime - best images are at base ISO.
>Anything above that, you are going to lose detail as you
>attempt to suppress noise with the chroma and luminance
>settings of any image processor.
>
>With LR4, the only way to reduce apparent noise is with the
>settings your mentioned. There is a limit to how good that is
>going to look in the final analysis.


David,

When I am using high ISO's I am doing it so as to capture the stars before they start to trail. I am unable to use a base or low ISO or I would have to do a much longer exposure and I would get star trails. I understand that I will always get noise at such a high ISO, and was just trying to find out if I could process out some of the noise more effectively in LR4 rather than using the in-camera NR for long exposures and high ISO, based on what I had seen in the video that I linked in my original post. Thanks.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
Mik3ymomo Registered since 30th Apr 2007Mon 14-Jan-13 11:44 PM
224 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to send message via AOL IM
#8. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 3


Mount Laurel, US
          

While this is true if shooting a skyline it is not true when shooting stars. Because he is not using an equatorial mount to follow the stars as the earth rotates. He has a limited amount of time for the exposure dependent on the focal length of the lens before he ends up with star trails which he doesn't want.

This means upping the ISO to get more of the dimmer star light in the limited amount of time he can have the shutter open.

I suggest anyone looking for a good tutorial check out Dave Morrow's. It's very good.

Things that are important to note is e 600 rule aka the 500 rule.
Shooting in a very dark location many miles from a town or city
Shoot on a clear night absent of a moon.

http://www.davemorrowphotography.com/p/tutorial-shooting-night-sky.html?m=1

D300, 12-24mm f4, 24-70mm f2.8, 70-200mm F2.8 VR, 60mm F2.8 Micro, AF-s, 300mm F4 AF-S
Manfrotto 3021PRO/322RC2 Grip Ball Head
Sold: D200, 18-200mm 80-400mm VR, 24mm F2.8D
www.flickr.com/mik3ymomo

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Shakenbake Registered since 22nd Nov 2007Mon 07-Jan-13 12:29 PM
1068 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#7. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 0


Brevard, US
          


>Can anyone tell me if I should switch off both the Long
>Exposure Noise reduction and the High ISO noise reduction when
>shooting exposures of 20 to 30 seconds at night with ISO
>between 1600 and 3200.

Can't speak to the LR4 question but definitely turn off the noise reduction as it is not needed. Generally, High ISO at night for long exposures (20-30s) is necessary and will not pixelate the photo unless you have some hot pixels on your sensor. The noise reduction function basically takes a dark frame of the same length exposure. It can create some issues depending on the interval between your shots if you are setting up a remote or internal intervalometer. Example: You are shooting a 30s exposure and have noise reduction on, the camera will take a 30s exposure and take another 30s to write to the memory card.

I never use the noise reduction for night time landscape shots.


A Bike can save your life!
www.pixeljuicephotos.com

My Nikonians gallery

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Sun 27-Jan-13 03:52 PM
8785 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#10. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun 27-Jan-13 03:53 PM by ericbowles

Atlanta, US
          

There are two very different types of noise reduction on the modern DSLR cameras.

High ISO noise reduction is just noise reduction applied automatically on a global basis to the image. I think the camera ignores it in LR4 since it is a post processing effect. In Capture you can turn off the setting in post. High ISO NR is a bit coarse, and may blur needlessly. Not all images need it and in any event it is better handled in post. Unless you are shooting JPEGs, keep it turned off.

As Chris describes, Long Exposure Noise Reduction creates a second frame of equal shutter speed with the shutter closed and subtracts the dark exposure. The result is that noise is removed from the RAW file. This does affect the RAW image whether you are using LR, Capture, or any other program. It cannot be reversed.

LENR is useful for long exposures such as soft blurred water, sky scenes, stars with a wide lens, or even light painting. You do want to use LENR for exposures ranging from a couple of seconds up to a minute or two (this varies by camerea model - the newest cameras activate LENR at 2 seconds but some earlier ones activate it at 8 seconds). This is more important in hot weather when temperature leads to more noise and hot pixels. If you are taking multiple exposures - even if they are relatively short - you'll need to decide whether LENR is appropriate, but I'd probably turn it off if motion is involved.

But if you are using long exposures for star trails - as in Chris's image, you may have exposures of an hour or more. That means LENR would take a second exposure of an hour or more. This has a huge impact on battery life as well as the number of images in an evening. For star trails and other very long exposures you don't want to use LENR.

The attached image is an example of one which used LENR.






Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

    
mvlow1974 Registered since 03rd Dec 2012Sun 27-Jan-13 04:37 PM
107 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#11. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 10


US
          

Thanks for the response Eric, it was very informative. I really like the picture you posted with the light painting of the foreground. If you don't mind can you please describe how you took this picture, including lens used and light source and duration. Thanks.

Malcolm

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

        
ericbowles Moderator Awarded for his in-depth knowledge and high level skills in various areas, especially Landscape and Wildlife Photoghraphy Writer Ribbon awarded for for his article contributions to the community Nikonian since 25th Nov 2005Mon 28-Jan-13 10:48 AM
8785 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#12. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 11


Atlanta, US
          

The image was created with the D800E and Nikon 24-70 lens at 24mm. The exposure was 20 sec at f/3.5 and ISO 1250. The light painting was with a Brinkman Million Max II spotlight for about 15 seconds of the exposure. The light was positioned about 30 feet from the main joshua tree in the foreground - about 30 degrees off the camera axis.


Eric Bowles
Nikonians Team
My Gallery
Workshops

Nikonians membership — my most important photographic investment, after the camera

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

            
mvlow1974 Registered since 03rd Dec 2012Mon 28-Jan-13 03:44 PM
107 posts Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share on Linkedin    Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profile
#13. "RE: Night time landscape photography noise reduction"
In response to Reply # 12


US
          

Thanks for sharing your technique Eric.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Forums Lobby MASTER YOUR VISION - BY SPECIALTY Landscape (Public) topic #71207 Previous topic | Next topic


Take the Nikonians Tour and learn more about being a Nikonian Wiki /FAQ /Help Listen to our MP3 photography radio channels Find anything on Nikon and imaging technology - fast!

Copyright © Nikonians 2000, 2014
All Rights Reserved

Nikonians®, NikoScope® and NikoniansAcademy™ are trademarks owned by Nikonians.org.
Nikon®, Nikonos® and Nikkor® are registered trademarks of Nikon Corporation.