Hey all,

Not sure where to post this, so since landscape photographers and tripods go together like pretzels and beer...

What's the deal with security folks and tripods? I've never had even the slighest hassle with airport security with either my tripod or my monopod. But I've twice encountered hassles (and I think I've narrowly averted a couple of others by putting it away) recently.

EXAMPLE ONE
I'm in the Notre Dame de Montreal cathedral. The place is gorgeous and filled with rich color. But, it's DARK. No problem, I whip out the trusty Velbon travel tripod and whip through a couple of rolls. As I'm finishing the last one, a security guard spies me and comes over to tell me "non tripod!".

EXAMPLE TWO
I'm travelling with a pro photog friend on a shoot and we manage to sneak in a day of sightseeing and shooting in Paris. At the Arch de Triomphe we are accosted by not one, but two, security guards who tell us tripods are not allowed (and it's pretty hard to figure out what they're saying, since neither of us speak french).

Whazzup? I could, on some level, understand if airport security were concerned (if a nail file could be a weapon, so could my Bogen monopod). But, they never even give me a second glance. My wife theorized that tripods were a disruption. But I was quietly clicking away, while 4,587 idiots popped strobes on the $100 digital cameras (yielding nothing, I expect).

This not a rant, really just personal curiosity. Anyone got either: a) a theory; or b) some personal knowledge of why this is such a big deal?

Sean A. Hickey
Photographer - Woodworker - Kayaker - Ad Guy

Just a dumb theory, especially since I haven't been to either of the two places you mentioned.

Maybe it is a safety issue instead of a security one. They don't want careless personnels to trip over your tripod and injure themselves.

Wild guess.
Sounds like fun though.

O.

www.landwaterandsky.com

I have seen this question in many forums on many web sites and in many photo newsgroups. The most two common explainations I have read about are safety and respect for others.

• Safety - In the US, property owners are liable for the safety of visitors, so they tend to lean towards more extreme policies in order to protect themselves from liability. No property owner wants to be held liable for a visitor tripping over your tripod or getting poked in the eye or any one of a dozen other potential risks.


• Respect - In many places they simply do not want you to disturb other visitors by fiddling around with your tripod (think cathedrals and other quiet, serene places).


• Copyright - There are also other legal reasons, depending on the place. For example, art galleries tend to prohibit all photography for the obvious reasons.

--
Walter Rowe
Music, Travel, Outdoor, Nature & Wildlife Images
Columbia, MD

I recall on the DC Nikonians gathering, Bob had to get several ok, and tripod permits for us to shoot in DC itself, as wel as the zoo, and abereitum.

Aaron J. Heiner
Team Coast Guard Photographer
US Department of Homeland Security

while I can't speak for your experience in Paris... in Montreal, what happened is that you have to buy a permit for your tripod.

Most Churches and historical buildings will not allows the use of a tripod not because of security, but for the oldest reason of all.. Revenue. If you are using a tripod, you have increased your chances of producing an image that can be published. The Church whant a small piece (a permit) to allow you to take the pictures. They also want to know what are you using this picture for. They want to make sure you are not using the picture in MAD magazine or something that will degrade the building nor the church. I spoke to the people at Notre Dame and you have to buy the permit and you will get it in a couple of days. Interestly, several other buildings in Montreal did not require permits. Only Notre Dame and most museums. I have gotten permits to shoot in Galleries (Picaso, etc..) No flash, but tripod if you pay...

This is very common and happens in many museums and other buildings all over the world. I was in Spain and had to buy permits for most buildings I wanted to photograph. I did many mesquitas and other buiding and palaces with no problems. There was only a couple of churches were they would ask me if the pictures were for commercial use or personal... When I said they were personal I was allowed to used the tripod for free. This is also the case in Germany, Denmark, Canada etc... Security guards are instructed not to allow people use tripods (or monopods for that fact) but they are some times are not told why. So they will make up an excuse like 'public safety', or triping over, or just because... Talk to the guys at information or any other desk and they should tell you who you should talk to allow your tripod onto the building. As soon as you talk to administration, they should be able to give you the forms and that's that..

You do have to plan since many places will take up-to a week to get you the permit. This was my case in La Alambra in Granada and a few places in Quebec. So if I know I'll be going to a building I will call before my trip and get my permit in order.


Enjoy

A Nikonian in Toronto
TerraOptica
SportShooter Profile

Most of the other nikonians answers are right, I believe..
But for the Paris exemple, one must know that using a tripod is recognized as having a shooting setting as for a movie making.
Shooting professionally in the streets requires a police permit and a tripod user is often assimilated to a "pro" setting...
In touristic locations (Arc, Notre Dame, etc.) most policemen will react to the tripping over the tripod of a backing (to get it in the frame) visitor, arguing on the "pro" permit law.
This of course goes with national museums where flashes are also forbidden. In the museums, old and narrow with wooden floorings, the points that used to exist on tripods legs, together with stilettos shoes have sometimes heavily damaged the parquets...
Of course, photographers are not the ones pointed out by these laws, but artists with their own wooden "tripods"... They can be there for days, unlike photographers..

Jacques

Jacques

"Un photographe, finalement, c'est quelqu'un comme les autres, mais qui prend des photos." - Man Ray
My Gallery...
My Other Gallery...

There is another reason flash is not allowed in many museums (actually 2 reasons):
- the light might damage pigments (lightsources in museums are often carefully controlled spectrum in areas with delicate fabrics etc.)
- the flash might annoy other visitors

Then there is the security issue in some places. For example, in the underground a flash might be mistaken for a bomb or gun going off when seen from a distance (say the driver of an approaching train) which could trigger all kind of nasty response from security forces.

any size is fullframe for a given definition of frame

I don't really believe the argument about light from camera flashes damaging paintings in a museum. The flash duration is so short that it would take literally thousands of flashes to equal 10 minutes of full spectrum light. The air pollution that is present in most large cities is probably more damaging to paintings than the occasional camera flash.

I think the most plausible explanation for photography restrictions in museums is to keep overzealous photographers from disturbing other visitors and to maximize the museum's profits by prohibiting unauthorized photos of exhibits from showing up somewhere.

Kerry

Well, the problem is not one flash, but the cumulative effect that it has over years of exposure... but I agree - many other places allow you to use the flash - I think it does comes down to your conclusion... I have a friend who is a curator in a museum... I'm going to ask him the reason why... :-D

A Nikonian in Toronto
TerraOptica
SportShooter Profile

The scienitific evidence is overwhelming and this type of responce only shows tremendous ignorance on this point. A large components of flash is UV light. UV light is distructive to a large number of documents and art. You should at least make an effort to do your homework, and research the issue, before posting such nonsense.

it is all about money, it seems that everyone wants their cut, i have experienced this photographing temples and such in asia. if they think you are a "pro", they want some cash from you to shoot, tripod or not (the tripod is usually the tip-off). imho, it is a very sad day, everybody is worried about their cash and vanity.

do not let anyone tell you it is for safety reasons, it is 99% of time a bogus excuse to make your wallet lighter. if safety was really a concern, they would not let you shoot with a tripod even after paying for a "permit".

biographie
My Nikonians Image Gallery

Hi,

I have been asked a few times to not use my tripod and they have all been for the same reason, because they don't want the lawn area damaged. But there were parents pushing prams all over the grass and no one seemed to care about that.

-Rachel.

Visit my Nikonians gallery.

I don't buy into the money for permit deal, because DC requires permits for tripods but does not charge for the permits.

Aaron J. Heiner
Team Coast Guard Photographer
US Department of Homeland Security

...else public spaces would not have such restrictions. For example, you cannot use a tripod on the U.S. Capitol grounds (found this out last week) without a permit. There does not appear to be any rational reason for a prohibition on tripod use on the wide expanse of the Capitol lawn, but there you are. (The Capitol police were very polite and understanding, thankfully; there is no signage posting this prohibition for the public.) Some of these tripod restrictions, especially in outdoor areas, are seemingly irrational, but are all too typical in these paranoid times.

In more confined areas, tripods are considered a nuisance to personal navigation, and this is understandable. Many indoor public spaces will allow you to carry a tripod at no cost as long as you plan in advance, and crowds are such that your work will not unduly interfere with other patrons. A good example is the U.S. Botanic Garden (a wonderful place to photograph), where it is usually possible to get a tripod permit if you call in advance and plan to shoot on weekdays when crowds are smaller.

If nothing else, tripod restrictions are a good argument for getting VR lenses!

Cheers.

I've heard that the reason police don't like tripods around government buildings in Washington is that tripod legs could possibly conceal one-shot firearms.

Kerry

RRowlet,
I'm on ICQ as I read this with a freind of mine who works for Cheif Gainer of the US Capitol Police. The reason for no tripod on Cap-Hill is de to the constant and regular protest and rallies held on the grounds, the tripod can easily become a blunt object used as a weapon against police if a riot errrupts.

Kerry, I asked about a mono-tri being used for a weapon, but the response I got was "Had never given that any real thought."

Aaron J. Heiner
Team Coast Guard Photographer
US Department of Homeland Security

In the UK when you enter a private building you can only do what the owner permits.

Most "historical" buildings charge for using a camera or tripod to raise revenue.
Most of the buildings "users" have to pay for their repair and renovation so raising revenue is legitimate.

However you cannot normally shoot in Durham Cathedral or even take cameras inside National Trust buildings.

You "should not use" tripods in most London parks (under ancient byelaws) and in many shopping centres which are technically private property.

In theory anyone in France can ask you to stop taking pictures (or painting a picture)if they are within the view under their privacy laws.

If you take a picture of a building or some land in France the owner of the building/land owns the copyright and can charge a fee!

There is currently very little published photojournalism of French life and definitely nothing published showing what some French politicians get up to.

Sometimes you have to take parts of the world as they are, and not as you would like them to be.

Photography is a bit like archery. A technically better camera, lens or arrow may not hit the target as often as it could if the photographer or archer does not practice enough.

Len Shepherd

I was just in France and used my tripod on the streets to shot sunset and night photos of some of the Paris icons. I did not have any problems with the tripod police or other French citizens. I used my tripod mostly at night and my monopod during the day with the only request to stop with the mono was at Versailles. The attendants were very polite and accommodating when asking to put the mono in my bag or take it the coat check room. I did not take the mono to the Louvre or the d'Orsay but I am sure they would have said no also.

Does anyone know if a tripod pass or license can be obtained for the Louvre or the d'Orsay? If so what are the requirements? My wife and I plan on going back in Oct 2004.

John Munro
Lakewood, Colorado

John Munro
Fresno, California
http://twolabphotography.com

You'd have to contact them. They both have websites and online stores, so there should be an email contact as well.

any size is fullframe for a given definition of frame

Yesterday and today my granddaughter and I went for her state ice skate competitions. While she was waiting for her turn she was with me standing, looking at other competitors.
An overzealous parent came from behind with a very light but tall tripod with a silly tiny digital camera and stuck one of the legs of it too close to a leg of my granddaughter. Needless to say he started to try to argue with me when I asked him to please withdraw a couple of feet. His explanations just received a poker face stare from my part. My non verbal reply just made him angry and began to insult me. Left my camera down on the floor and got ready for anything. I didn't think his face deserved any damage to my F5 or its 80-400mm VR.
The closeness of my granddaughter plus deep breathing and slow counting helped me to decide to move elsewhere.
Not more than 10 minutes later another 8 year old competitor tripped on his tripod and could not compete as she was hurt on a knee.
I think other comments or reflexions are unnecessary.
BTW, we made Silver!
Edited to add an image I just got from a friendly local PJ

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

That's a very interesting story, Ramon....and a good
reason to not use tripods in a crowd. Too bad
about the other little girl who tripped.
Good for you for keeping your cool
moving away from him.....

Congratulations to your granddaughter! You must be very proud!

-Lela



"If you ever
drop your camera into a river of
molten lava, let it go because,
man, it's gone."

"If you ever drop your camera
into a river of molten lava,
let it go because, man, it's gone."

Yes indeed.
And thanks. Yes, we are very proud.

Have a great time
JRP (Founder & Administrator. Nikonian at the north-eastern Mexican desert) Gallery, Brief Love Story, The Team
Join the Silver, Gold and Platinum members that help this happen; upgrade. Join your personal web site to the Nikonians WebRing
Make sure you check our workshops at The Nikonians Academy